I don't think it's social commentary so much as self-insert on the nose dialogue that is bothersome. It just feels tacky and lazy, especially earlier on in the special where every other line was some hurr hurr liberal talking point. I don't mind shows being political, but I think it shows weakness in the writing when it clearly feels like an artificial author-insert. I think the lines about "Hope Obama" and the rant about bankers getting away with stealing money while normal people get harassed by cops were the ones which took me out of the show.
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Sense8 Christmas Special |OT| It's time to come together - Netflix December 23rd
- Thread starter GK86
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I don't think it's social commentary so much as self-insert on the nose dialogue that is bothersome. It just feels tacky and lazy, especially earlier on in the special where every other line was some hurr hurr liberal talking point. I don't mind shows being political, but I think it shows weakness in the writing when it clearly feels like an artificial author-insert. I think the lines about "Hope Obama" and the rant about bankers getting away with stealing money while normal people get harassed by cops were the ones which took me out of the show.
So so good.
The cinematography and music which is tykwer and his people rip me to shreds. I love this man and his team so much. The deep thought the wachowskis bring a long with the action helps a lot as well.
Perfume: Story of a Murderer is one of my favorite movies of all time a long with the Matrix. Sense 8 is a show that brings these two movies together and it's amazing, fucking amazing.
The cinematography and music which is tykwer and his people rip me to shreds. I love this man and his team so much. The deep thought the wachowskis bring a long with the action helps a lot as well.
Perfume: Story of a Murderer is one of my favorite movies of all time a long with the Matrix. Sense 8 is a show that brings these two movies together and it's amazing, fucking amazing.
Red Shoe Diaries?
Finally got around to watching it...and it was kinda awesome and kinda disappointing. It felt like this awkward thing, where nothing really happens, since advancing the story in any meaningful way, would be a waste due to the fact the fans will be waiting five months.
But, even though it drags in the first 50 minutes or so, the second half was better and it had everything I love about the show; the emotions, touching scenes, the cinematography, and the beautiful locations (seriously some of those places, wow).
But, even though it drags in the first 50 minutes or so, the second half was better and it had everything I love about the show; the emotions, touching scenes, the cinematography, and the beautiful locations (seriously some of those places, wow).
GuitarAtomik
Member
This show makes me want to travel lol.
The Wachowskis once again went a bit long on a combined dance/orgy scene, but other than that I thought the special was quite good. Yes, there was some liberal political commentary in the beginning, but those that said it would likely be quite liberal and potentially involved in social activism so it's not out of place.
Key takeaway is Whispers is terrifying, without really doing much. I think this might be a case like old horror movies. They are effective because of how little you see of the threat.
Key takeaway is Whispers is terrifying, without really doing much. I think this might be a case like old horror movies. They are effective because of how little you see of the threat.
The special was clearly very indulgent. Didn't really go anywhere considering it was 2 hours, but I don't really care. It was magnificent anyway. The team behind this show can be as indulgent as they want. That's what makes this show amazing.
The entire conversation where "Hope Obama" comes up should have taken you out of the show anyway. It was entirely meta, and tongue-in-cheek.
The line about bankers stealing money and stuff seemed pretty on the nose for the characters saying it.
The entire conversation where "Hope Obama" comes up should have taken you out of the show anyway. It was entirely meta, and tongue-in-cheek.
The line about bankers stealing money and stuff seemed pretty on the nose for the characters saying it.
#sorrynotsorry
Member
Loved it except in not sold on the new Caph. Someone earlier said he couldn't do the old actors scenes and they're right. The old guy was kinda cute in a way. They new guy is really not.
That's not to say he won't be good. But the writers and actor are going to need to knock him out of the park. I'd say he needs to be darker but then Will already changed and I don't think the show can afford to go darker.
That's not to say he won't be good. But the writers and actor are going to need to knock him out of the park. I'd say he needs to be darker but then Will already changed and I don't think the show can afford to go darker.
Biff
Member
Yeesh that was bad. I loved loved loved Season 1. The characters all felt real and deeply developed.
This Christmas special was such a step back. Cheap Flanderizations of the characters. Like... Lito & Co's nail painting party? Nomi and Amanita's cringeworthy run-ins with AgentSmith Bendix? Kala and her husband's boner breaking scene? Wtf?
Add on the cheap drive-by liberal commentary, which was totally out of place, and you have a mess of a 2-hour special. The "combined" scenes, namely the dance party, the orgy, and the "Hallelujah" scenes went on way too long and were really just pointless. We know they are a family and care about each other. I don't need to see them suck on each others' nipples to really drive that point home further.
I really hope they pull this back together for Season 2. This show was such a breath of fresh air and its already going Orange is the New Black. And it's not even Season 2 yet. Ugh.
This Christmas special was such a step back. Cheap Flanderizations of the characters. Like... Lito & Co's nail painting party? Nomi and Amanita's cringeworthy run-ins with Agent
Add on the cheap drive-by liberal commentary, which was totally out of place, and you have a mess of a 2-hour special. The "combined" scenes, namely the dance party, the orgy, and the "Hallelujah" scenes went on way too long and were really just pointless. We know they are a family and care about each other. I don't need to see them suck on each others' nipples to really drive that point home further.
I really hope they pull this back together for Season 2. This show was such a breath of fresh air and its already going Orange is the New Black. And it's not even Season 2 yet. Ugh.
I loved it. The show has always had little problems along the way but I've just come around to accepting it for what it is. The liberal commentary is expected. The creators are two transgender women living in today's world. I don't see why anyone would be surprised or upset that they use the show as a bit of a soap-box. People complained in the first season when they simply included a trans character and had the nerve to show her in a lesbian sex scene. They also complained about the "in your face" Lito storyline. Frankly, fuck them. I found the Capheus scene more on the nose and much longer than it needed to be than any of the other fleeting comments about bankers or Obama.
I think this show is phenomenal because of the premise itself. I don't care too much about Will or Riley but the rest of the characters are so interesting. There's something so fascinating about being in a cluster of people from around the world and sharing their lives that way. Give me all the group dance scenes and orgies you can fit in. I was just glad that we finally got one with the entire cluster but I was a little confused by Amanita being included. Was Lito's bf there too with the whole group too? Maybe I missed him and just saw Amanita since she's so easily identified.
I think this show is phenomenal because of the premise itself. I don't care too much about Will or Riley but the rest of the characters are so interesting. There's something so fascinating about being in a cluster of people from around the world and sharing their lives that way. Give me all the group dance scenes and orgies you can fit in. I was just glad that we finally got one with the entire cluster but I was a little confused by Amanita being included. Was Lito's bf there too with the whole group too? Maybe I missed him and just saw Amanita since she's so easily identified.
Cardon
Member
I enjoyed the special for the most part. I will agree with the sentiments of other that some of the comedy was off, especially the dick "breaking" scene. Like I'm all for a bit of levity amidst Will becoming a powerless heroin addict, but the humor reminded me of the awful stuff in Jupiter Ascending.
Other than that I digged it. Things were a bit slow, but obviously, this is just a slow build up to the new plot strings for S2. I just wonder what the emphasis on Whispers will be. Like will the team go after Whispers' family/daughter or try to get some of those blocking pills to do something?
Lastly, Sun was hot as hell in this.
Other than that I digged it. Things were a bit slow, but obviously, this is just a slow build up to the new plot strings for S2. I just wonder what the emphasis on Whispers will be. Like will the team go after Whispers' family/daughter or try to get some of those blocking pills to do something?
Lastly, Sun was hot as hell in this.
UnemployedVillain
Member
The Wachowskis sure do like their orgy scenes
Baroquemantic
Member
Watching this now and I think I may need to rewatch the first season. I remember some details, but I've forgotten others.
Edit: Finished. That was pretty great for the most part. I still really love these characters. Gotta get used to new VD, though!
Edit: Finished. That was pretty great for the most part. I still really love these characters. Gotta get used to new VD, though!
Gotta agree that this felt more like the first two episodes of season 2 rather than an actual special 2 hour thing. That said, in terms of continuing the plot it also felt like it was spinning its wheels instead of moving forward. In season 1 it made sense that each of the characters would have the isolated threads but I was hoping season 2 would be more interconnected. Not even the bigger moments like the prison fight scene or montage moments, I want more stuff like Sun with Noomi so she can watch her brother's TV interview. I mean Will is drugging himself into a heroin induced coma to hide from Whispers and outside of Riley, no one seemingly acknowledges it.
Eh, I think you need to rewatch Season 1 because the stuff in this "Christmas special" wasn't really out of line with what they've done. I am disappointed their continuing with the German mafia plot though. That was the only one they really played straight all the way through last season and are seemingly doubling down it unfortunately.
Eh, I think you need to rewatch Season 1 because the stuff in this "Christmas special" wasn't really out of line with what they've done. I am disappointed their continuing with the German mafia plot though. That was the only one they really played straight all the way through last season and are seemingly doubling down it unfortunately.
crackhead_bob
Member
What is the overarching theme of this show supposed to be? I rewatched season 1 recently and the plot still remains vague. All I've discerned were the main characters overcoming their personal demons, but when will they begin to focus inward? I guess in other words, is there going to be a Darth Vader level antagonist that will pull things together?
Carnivale sort of had the same problems, and by the time things finally started to come together it ended up being cancelled.
I really like this show, but I could see how this show would turn people off, and no, it has nothing to do with the LGBT themes. It's just this show takes a while before it finds its footing.
So anyone who can allay my concerns, answer me this: what advantages does this show have going for it that Carnivale didn't. Even if tangential, what built-in good will does it have that can allow it to remain on the air? I read where the Wachowski's have a 5 year window in mind to tell their story?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Is this really a question that needs to be asked? It is for ease of viewing.
You missed the 'I didn't know Nomi could speak Korean!' part, then. They're speaking their native languages as are the people around them, but the sensates are able to understand eachother and those speaking in languages the other sensates in their cluster understand.
This is all presented in English because it's a lot easier to direct actors when they're giving performances in a language you speak, and it's a hell of a hassle to translate a script into 8+ different languages. Among what I imagine are a ton of other issues that don't immediately spring to mind.
It was answered in the episode
when a character asks how Nomi knows Korean.
Even you can hear the same news in Korean when the camara is with her girlfriend and English when is with Nomi.
It's a way to say they are synchronized in language too, but they are speaking their own languages from outside.
Even you can hear the same news in Korean when the camara is with her girlfriend and English when is with Nomi.
It's a way to say they are synchronized in language too, but they are speaking their own languages from outside.
Still, it's an excuse to make the tv show for english-speaking viewers.
Edit: beaten.
I don't think I've ever groaned while watching this show before now -- during the scene where I think it was Nomi and Amanita talking about how hot they thought Lito's leaked sex pics were and Nomi says something like "Why doesn't world get it? Why can't they see what we see?". I felt like that was the most heavy-handed this show has ever been, or at the very least, that scene raised the bar. It's too bad because I'm actually really happy when the show gets real and topical, but this felt like being bludgeoned over the head. Oy.
This Christmas Special definitely felt like they tried to stuff a whole season of signature Sense8 moments into one bloated episode and it came off rather overindulgent, which I suppose is appropriated for the winter holidays. Between the extended raves, extended orgy, the (still great) ensemble fight scenes, and the protracted scenes of characters staring longingly at something while theme-specific song plays (this time it's a cover of Hallelujah, yayyyy), IT'S SENSE8 OVERLOAD!
It's a mess, but I still kind sorta love all of it. It's the cast and the characters, they're all so likable that i pulls me through no matter what's going on with everything else in the show.
But wtf were they thinking with the crap involving Rajan's broken dick?
This Christmas Special definitely felt like they tried to stuff a whole season of signature Sense8 moments into one bloated episode and it came off rather overindulgent, which I suppose is appropriated for the winter holidays. Between the extended raves, extended orgy, the (still great) ensemble fight scenes, and the protracted scenes of characters staring longingly at something while theme-specific song plays (this time it's a cover of Hallelujah, yayyyy), IT'S SENSE8 OVERLOAD!
It's a mess, but I still kind sorta love all of it. It's the cast and the characters, they're all so likable that i pulls me through no matter what's going on with everything else in the show.
But wtf were they thinking with the crap involving Rajan's broken dick?
Unless I am totally losing my mind, Season 1 they did not do this i.e. they spoke Korean and used English subtitles. I know what you guys are saying with
Nomi
It does make sense that all Sense8 characters are interconnected, so they all have "1 universal language" but for some reason I dont remember them doing this in Season 1, I could be wrong.
The ease of viewing thing Im just not buying.... I cant remember the last time a TV show had a scene in a different country, and yet theyre speaking fluent English to each other when neither of the supposed characters are even native english speakers. It totally ruins the scene for me.
It was.. ok, I guess, my main problem is that the plots don't interwine in the best of ways, and the main plot is not engaging enough, minor villains like the one in Wolfgang story seem more interesting and menacing than the main villain. I commend them for trying to do this multicultural, multilingual thing because it's obviously extremely difficult, but I'm sorry to say they are not pulling it off.
Also, sorry, but no,
Also, sorry, but no,
you can't have some massive orgy with all of them and then cut to the next scene where Kala is shy and worried about sex with her husband, that made the whole orgy scene even more gratuitous and pointless (and out of place).
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
You're losing your mind, they spoke English in season one too. There were a couple of times they spoke their native language with subtitles just to illustrate to the audience that they're actually speaking in another language, even though we hear it as English. They brought it up amongst the characters, asking how they spoke their language. One scene I remember is when Capheus and Sun meet and she mentions he's speaking Korean and he says she's speaking Swahili.
Road of Ease
Member
I think it makes sense. Having crazy sex in your head doesn't make the real thing any less daunting for a first-timer...
But it's not a fantasy, they are indeed living it. Also, in season one,
the unwilling participants in the group sex thing were very freaked out by it, so the reactions in this one make no sense, and also, she freaked out again with Wolfgang and the other girl.
And it just throws away her whole story, the idea that her cluster gradually eases her into sex, something that she is clearly freaked out by, would have been very interesting. For instance she could gradually open up, she is guided like how Sun talk to her about her experience and she could learn more through Wolfgang as well, and it culminates in a big psychic orgy, that would have been a better progression, instead of just having a gratuitous sex scene that makes no sense given her storyline, because sex and her reactions to it are an integral part of her development, and she barely starts to open up to her husband at the end of the episode.
And it just throws away her whole story, the idea that her cluster gradually eases her into sex, something that she is clearly freaked out by, would have been very interesting. For instance she could gradually open up, she is guided like how Sun talk to her about her experience and she could learn more through Wolfgang as well, and it culminates in a big psychic orgy, that would have been a better progression, instead of just having a gratuitous sex scene that makes no sense given her storyline, because sex and her reactions to it are an integral part of her development, and she barely starts to open up to her husband at the end of the episode.
Maybe the scene was meant to come late into the story but was crammed in the special to give a condensed form of the show and get more buzz going? I don't know, it just felt very out of place.
LOL! The show has always been heavy handed. It's never been subtle in anyway about it's issues of empathy and what not. That's why it so great and the characters always sell it because everyone is so damn likable. If you want subtle this isn't the show for you.
Spikematic
Member
This show is so cheesy and gaudy but I like it anyway for some reason. Looking forward to the rest of the season.
No, if anything, it got longer.
Infernostew
Member
Really liked season 1 but this didn't do a whole lot for me. Way too long and 90% filler. Honestly, there's not too much of a reason to watch this episode.
Sex, talk talk, sex, talk talk. Nothing happened, every character seems to be 5 minutes of progress from their previous state.
I like the characters and how the show looks, but they need to put some plot developments in there otherwise the talks feel like they are just preaching us morals and the sex is just to remind us that they are all incredibly hot.
I'm not sure Sex is the meaning of life, from the show I would say its about 40% and the rest is talking.
I like the characters and how the show looks, but they need to put some plot developments in there otherwise the talks feel like they are just preaching us morals and the sex is just to remind us that they are all incredibly hot.
I'm not sure Sex is the meaning of life, from the show I would say its about 40% and the rest is talking.
If you liked season 1 I'm surprised you didn't like this? Guys it was a Xmas special. Not the start of season 2. Hell, plot be damned just glad to see them back again.
I unabashedly adored this, just as, outside the slow start, I unabashedly adore the show in general. For all those taking umbrage with the issues raised by the show, I first have to wonder if you've ever seen it before or know what its premise is and who is making it, and secondly mention that I'm pretty strongly anti-identity politics and SJW-style rhetoric. What makes this show different for me is that it follows through completely on tackling issues from a starting point of empathy and equality. It almost never devolves into righteousness, blaming or overt pandering (the "Why can't they see what we see?" bit came close, admittedly). Its kindness extends to everyone without reservation or creating division.
One of my favourite small moments of the special was when Nomi and Amanita invited Bug to join in with their Christmas celebrations and his face absolutely lit up from the simple acknowledgment of him as a person, as though no-one had ever seen him as more than an accessory or a wastrel before. Undoubtedly the most moving was Lito's mother not only accepting him coming out, but recognising his bravery. I like how where an SJW-style show would present Kala's husband as a one-note selfish, spoilt misogynist, this one can give him clear faults while still finding goodness and humanity in him, finding humour in how some of his deficiencies are typically male without being anti-man or sneering at him for the fact he as a rich man will never face anything like the sort of discrimination or obstacles that Nomi, Lito or Kala do.
I love just spending time in this world where these issues (discrimination and cruelty growing out of racism, sexism, transgenderism, etc) can be acknowledged in their seriousness and tackled with positivity, not anger. It didn't matter a jot personally that there wasn't any big plot movement for the entire two hours, the special was bubbling over with the spirit of togetherness that Christmas should be about and all the better for it. Also, the Hallelujah montage, even with the most obvious song choice imaginable (again!), was perfect.
One of my favourite small moments of the special was when Nomi and Amanita invited Bug to join in with their Christmas celebrations and his face absolutely lit up from the simple acknowledgment of him as a person, as though no-one had ever seen him as more than an accessory or a wastrel before. Undoubtedly the most moving was Lito's mother not only accepting him coming out, but recognising his bravery. I like how where an SJW-style show would present Kala's husband as a one-note selfish, spoilt misogynist, this one can give him clear faults while still finding goodness and humanity in him, finding humour in how some of his deficiencies are typically male without being anti-man or sneering at him for the fact he as a rich man will never face anything like the sort of discrimination or obstacles that Nomi, Lito or Kala do.
I love just spending time in this world where these issues (discrimination and cruelty growing out of racism, sexism, transgenderism, etc) can be acknowledged in their seriousness and tackled with positivity, not anger. It didn't matter a jot personally that there wasn't any big plot movement for the entire two hours, the special was bubbling over with the spirit of togetherness that Christmas should be about and all the better for it. Also, the Hallelujah montage, even with the most obvious song choice imaginable (again!), was perfect.
Everything in this post is golden.
I also love how Kala explains her situation to her fiance:
"For starters, there are people, people that I feel connected to all over the world that are innocent and yet they're locked up in prison. And-and-and they are trapped by circumstance or by things that have happened in the past. And then there are people without the privilege that we have and they feel threatened because they love a person that the world has decided that they shouldn't love."
That's it in a nutshell. The series is almost impossible to review. You either feel it or not.
That was really good. There were some great moments in the special that really got to me.
I liked the doctor amusing himself at Kala's husband's expense. "You really dodged a bullet", or "You shouldn't have anything to worry about, except maybe some penile problems, but you should be ok, mostly."
"Love cures all ills". "Ouch, your love is causing me pain."
I liked the doctor amusing himself at Kala's husband's expense. "You really dodged a bullet", or "You shouldn't have anything to worry about, except maybe some penile problems, but you should be ok, mostly."
"Love cures all ills". "Ouch, your love is causing me pain."
My friend and I agree. Dude went on a whole new lecture for the class with well actual class lol.
TDLink
Member
Just watched this.
This show is still so wildly unique and interesting and beautifully shot. There are sequences where it is so mesmerizing and almost becomes like a music video. I can't help but like it. I feel like the Wachowskis really know what they're doing. I still feel (as I felt with the first season) that they hit the audience over the head a bit too much about fluid sexuality but...knowing who the Wachowskis are I understand why they want that message out there so hard and it does make sense in the context of the show.
That being said, I still find the Nomi/Amanita characters to be the least intriguing. It has nothing to do with her being trans and everything to do with nearly every single scene with them being preachy as hell. Like, we get it but at some point this needs to stop being a self-insert character for Lana and actually contributing to the show in a way beyond "oh we need to hack something, she is a hacker".
I love all of the other characters. Lito was my fav in season 1 and he and his crew are still great here.
Kala was better in this special than season 1 I felt and all of the moments with her and the other sensates were fantastic. Rajan is kinda boring but I guess that's the point.
I loved old Capheus, new one was barely used so I have to see more.
I like both Riley and Will but I really wonder what they're going to do there. I feel like they've written themselves into a corner there since now Will has to be constantly doped up or Whispers will find out more. These first two episodes didn't do anything to calm my fears of that but we'll see how the rest of the season plays out.
I love Wolfgang and Felix, they have a sort of infectious energy even if their plot is potentially the most fucked up and violent. They were my favourites of these two episodes.
Sun is still interesting (beyond just being the go to for a Kung Fu fight scene) but they haven't done a lot with her being in prison yet and I am getting the feeling they might not, so I am unsure where that's going right now too. It's potentially limiting her character, even if she gets to "escape" via the other sensates whenever she wants.
This show is still so wildly unique and interesting and beautifully shot. There are sequences where it is so mesmerizing and almost becomes like a music video. I can't help but like it. I feel like the Wachowskis really know what they're doing. I still feel (as I felt with the first season) that they hit the audience over the head a bit too much about fluid sexuality but...knowing who the Wachowskis are I understand why they want that message out there so hard and it does make sense in the context of the show.
That being said, I still find the Nomi/Amanita characters to be the least intriguing. It has nothing to do with her being trans and everything to do with nearly every single scene with them being preachy as hell. Like, we get it but at some point this needs to stop being a self-insert character for Lana and actually contributing to the show in a way beyond "oh we need to hack something, she is a hacker".
I love all of the other characters. Lito was my fav in season 1 and he and his crew are still great here.
Kala was better in this special than season 1 I felt and all of the moments with her and the other sensates were fantastic. Rajan is kinda boring but I guess that's the point.
I loved old Capheus, new one was barely used so I have to see more.
I like both Riley and Will but I really wonder what they're going to do there. I feel like they've written themselves into a corner there since now Will has to be constantly doped up or Whispers will find out more. These first two episodes didn't do anything to calm my fears of that but we'll see how the rest of the season plays out.
I love Wolfgang and Felix, they have a sort of infectious energy even if their plot is potentially the most fucked up and violent. They were my favourites of these two episodes.
Sun is still interesting (beyond just being the go to for a Kung Fu fight scene) but they haven't done a lot with her being in prison yet and I am getting the feeling they might not, so I am unsure where that's going right now too. It's potentially limiting her character, even if she gets to "escape" via the other sensates whenever she wants.
There are some really uplifting moments later. Just keep watching.
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