Seoul Halloween Crush

RIP.

Also, TF you feel the need to go and celebrate with tens of thousands of other random people? I never understood that. New Year celebration in the town square - I never went to those.
 
I thought the title was referring to some sort of event or movie. Turns out it's actually a stampede that went down in South Korea and people died. RIP.
 
Horrible. Apparently people were trying to get to a particular bar or restaurant to see a celebrity who was there.

I've always been hesitant to attend events like this in fear of any incidents that could happen.
 
InterMusketeer said:
Horrible. Apparently people were trying to get to a particular bar or restaurant to see a celebrity who was there.

I've always been hesitant to attend events like this in fear of any incidents that could happen.
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Stay far away from tight spaces, never enter one or even be close to one.
 




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Why didn't the police spray teargas or something into the air to stop people? If 120, then it musta gone on for a while
 
I've never been scared in a crowd because I am taller than everyone but I do make sure my kids are next to me in a crowd.

if you find yourself in a crush go with the flow don't fight it.
 
Jesus, that's absolutely horrible. RIP to the victims.

Even though I understand how this can happen its still insane. Its not like there was an attack, or a bomb threat or a fire or something. Crowds are scary
 
Apparently many passed out while standing up... 100k people in such small area and old, bumpy, hilly backstreet... it was a disaster waiting to happen. RIP.
At the same time, I also hear some people were singing and dancing near the ambulances and people are trying to save others. Truly disgusting behavior.
I never understood how Halloween became such a big deal in Korea, or how it became a thirst orgy fest for young fashionable folks in recent years.

Either way, I hope this incident would bring some awareness for personal space, safety and all to them. Jam packed NYC subway isn't nothing to compare to the ones in Korea or Japan - and all those 100k folks probably were so desensitized about the danger of such crowd could result such disaster.
 
lachesis said:
I never understood how Halloween became such a big deal in Korea, or how it became a thirst orgy fest for young fashionable folks in recent years.
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It's a lot to do with the US military presence that's been present for decades. In Pyeongtaek, there was also a Halloween party but it was a lot smaller scale, no danger of death. Itaewon has been the hangout spot in Seoul for the international vibe. You're going to see and meet a large amount of people you wouldn't find elsewhere in the country. So lots of Koreans flock there to experience something different.

Add in COVID fatigue and one of the first major celebrations in two years and you have a recipe for disaster.
 
lachesis said:
I never understood how Halloween became such a big deal in Korea, or how it became a thirst orgy fest for young fashionable folks in recent years.
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Social media is a big reason I think. Imagine not posting any cool costume pics of yourself and friends in trendy places.
 
Not that it would make it any better but I really hope the reason isn't as dumb as people trying to see a celebrity.

Stinkbug said:
Why didn't the police spray teargas or something into the air to stop people? If 120, then it musta gone on for a while
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That would have caused more panic and there would be even more deaths. Unless that was sarcasm about how idiotic the Indonesian police were firing tear gas at the soccer fans that led to 125 deaths in the surge it caused?
 
Meicyn said:
It's a lot to do with the US military presence that's been present for decades. In Pyeongtaek, there was also a Halloween party but it was a lot smaller scale, no danger of death. Itaewon has been the hangout spot in Seoul for the international vibe. You're going to see and meet a large amount of people you wouldn't find elsewhere in the country. So lots of Koreans flock there to experience something different.

Add in COVID fatigue and one of the first major celebrations in two years and you have a recipe for disaster.
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Yeah... Itaewon was basically hangout place for the 8th army as it's quite close to the Yongsan Base (where it used to be till they moved to Pyeongtaek)

I remember visiting Yongsan base back in 80s and 90s. It was so very different from outside world, that it literally felt like a U.S. town inside of Seoul.
Halloween was celebrated mostly around Yongsan base and other US bases + Foreigners apartment section in Eastern Ichon dong... but it had very limited presence, and mostly for foreign kids only too, as far as I remember. No parades, nothing. Not many people really knew what it was about, and why these kids were wearing Planet of Apes masks and running around. Many folks were genuinely spooked by it back then.

Times have certainly changed - that it seems like it really became mainstream in past decade or so. I also think SNS being one factor. I stopped over Korea briefly last week and saw ton of Halloween themed stuff all over the places. Fancy resorts, all the bakeries etc... it was certainly strange to see how it became so mainstream now, even though nobody seem to understand any meaning to it. Just like why people eat KFC and cake on Christmas day in Japan.

Eitherway, hope a tragedy like this won't never happen again, and hope they learn and become more aware of danger that it's never far away. So many Koreans that I know and see, don't seem to understand nor care much of personal danger... I guess living in safe society, desensitize one's sense. When you think about it, Seoul is only like 30 miles away from Nearest NK city, Gaesung... and I would be freaked out that it's like the distance from my house in NJ to JFK airport...
 
I saw on Japanese media that a lot people went there specifically because there was a famous person hanging out in a pub so people wanted to see that person.
 
The organisers of this and the police will have a lot to answer for here. Usually when this sort of thing happens it is the police or organisers ushering people the wrong way. Rest in peace to those unfortunate souls who lost their lives on a night out.
 
Stinkbug said:
Why didn't the police spray teargas or something into the air to stop people? If 120, then it musta gone on for a while
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...

Wait, you're serious?!

We learnt (well, most police forces did) years ago that scaring densely packed crowds is the worst thing you can do, even if they are rioting.

I mean, you did hear about what happened in Indonesia this very month?


That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the police are found to have not initially handled this very well in terms of crowd management. It wouldn't exactly be out of character for South Korea (see Sewol where the reaction was eventually incredible, but the preventative measure and a lot of the initial reaction was poor).
 
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Meicyn said:
It's a lot to do with the US military presence that's been present for decades. In Pyeongtaek, there was also a Halloween party but it was a lot smaller scale, no danger of death. Itaewon has been the hangout spot in Seoul for the international vibe. You're going to see and meet a large amount of people you wouldn't find elsewhere in the country. So lots of Koreans flock there to experience something different.

Add in COVID fatigue and one of the first major celebrations in two years and you have a recipe for disaster.
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I think it's more to do with SNS as lachesis lachesis said and globalisation. It's become very popular in Japan over the same time period too, and not just near US bases. I've gone from seeing the chain stores have maybe a half/ full shelf of Halloween merchandise to entire racks or an aisle of the stuff. Bakeries as mentioned get in on it, and even supermarkets.

It's a fun time where you get to dress up, and in still quite straight-laced societies, it's a very appealing outlet for young people. And some of the middle-aged people are now quite well-travelled or grew up with some SNS, and they are ones making the marketing decisions and owning businesses now.

South Korea has been a bit behind Japan in that regard, but has been catching up very quickly.
 
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lachesis said:
Apparently many passed out while standing up... 100k people in such small area and old, bumpy, hilly backstreet... it was a disaster waiting to happen. RIP.
At the same time, I also hear some people were singing and dancing near the ambulances and people are trying to save others. Truly disgusting behavior.
I never understood how Halloween became such a big deal in Korea, or how it became a thirst orgy fest for young fashionable folks in recent years.

Either way, I hope this incident would bring some awareness for personal space, safety and all to them. Jam packed NYC subway isn't nothing to compare to the ones in Korea or Japan - and all those 100k folks probably were so desensitized about the danger of such crowd could result such disaster.
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Ex-pats or western immigrants brought Halloween partying to Japan/Korea starting in the 90s. It's always been a rule-breaking party type event. The way Japan/Korea celebrates Halloween isn't even how it's celebrated in the US. It's really like the expats there tried to teach the locals that it's an excuse for debauchery and to cosplay. But this event is the combination of what I described with the first major event in "post-covid" society there.
 
vpance said:
Social media is a big reason I think. Imagine not posting any cool costume pics of yourself and friends in trendy places.
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Not just in Korea though, i think Halloween has become a special party event in other asian countries like China for young people as well.
 
If Halloween is becoming popular in Asian countries, it's sure an odd way of doing it. When was the last time in the US, Canada or whichever other countries around the world celebrate it make it a sardine street party? You dont even get championship parades this packed suffocating people.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
If Halloween is becoming popular in Asian countries, it's sure an odd way of doing it. When was the last time in the US, Canada or whichever other countries around the world celebrate it make it a sardine street party? You dont even get championship parades this packed suffocating people.
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Umm, sardining isn't part of Halloween celebrations Asian countries. It's just that they are so densely populated that most big events get crowded like this. They have for decades.

This was kind of the perfect storm for something to go wrong though. A country that is densely populated, and an unorganised event (celebration) that involves drinking and in therefore is in a part of town that is quite narrow (very narrow in some places). Add in there apparently having been a celebrity out and the fever over Korean celebrities at the moment. Then also add in that Korean authorities don't have the best reputation for pre-empting issues (for various reasons) and it's not surprising.

I can understand how that could be very alien to someone in the US, where you have so much space, even in big cities. The world is bigger than the US though.
 
The one that happens in Shibuya every year seems like an accident waiting to happen now. Not saying they should ban these kinds of events but they definitely need to think of some ways to discourage people from showing up if the signs are bad. But in the case of this event it sounded like as soon you got off the train you were literally swept into a wave of people without any control whatsoever. Crowds are scary stuff.
 
Tams said:
Umm, sardining isn't part of Halloween celebrations Asian countries. It's just that they are so densely populated that most big events get crowded like this. They have for decades.

This was kind of the perfect storm for something to go wrong though. A country that is densely populated, and an unorganised event (celebration) that involves drinking and in therefore is in a part of town that is quite narrow (very narrow in some places). Add in there apparently having been a celebrity out and the fever over Korean celebrities at the moment. Then also add in that Korean authorities don't have the best reputation for pre-empting issues (for various reasons) and it's not surprising.

I can understand how that could be very alien to someone in the US, where you have so much space, even in big cities. The world is bigger than the US though.
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You are missing the fact that 2022 is a year where Korea uplifted public masks in Sept and youngsters really wanted this festival since the COVID
 
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Porcile said:
The one that happens in Shibuya every year seems like an accident waiting to happen now. Not saying they should ban these kinds of events but they definitely need to think of some ways to discourage people from showing up if the signs are bad. But in the case of this event it sounded like as soon you got off the train you were literally swept into a wave of people without any control whatsoever. Crowds are scary stuff.
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Yeah, Shibuya Halloween is pretty wild.

You can't really ban it. If not for the moral issue of older people dictating to younger people how to behave (which is becoming increasingly unpopular in Asian countries), but because it's just not practical. I mean, Japan did ban dancing but that was just flaunted. And in Japan at least, that could absolutely be argued to be unlawful (Japanese laws regarding freedom are quite strong).

All it requires is good policing. Preventative policing, not reactive policing.

As in, even though it's an unofficial event, predicting it will happen, counting how many people enter an area, and then shutting it off to any new entrants if capacity is reached. Requiring an area to have ticketing is also an option, paid or not. The latter requires businesses to agree with it, but for some areas I'm sure agreements could be made.

At Japanese festivals I have seen some very good policing. They'll have roads closed and routes pre-determined for where people should go and how many.
 
Tams said:
Yeah, Shibuya Halloween is pretty wild.

You can't really ban it. If not for the moral issue of older people dictating to younger people how to behave (which is becoming increasingly unpopular in Asian countries), but because it's just not practical. I mean, Japan did ban dancing but that was just flaunted. And in Japan at least, that could absolutely be argued to be unlawful (Japanese laws regarding freedom are quite strong).

All it requires is good policing. Preventative policing, not reactive policing.

As in, even though it's an unofficial event, predicting it will happen, counting how many people enter an area, and then shutting it off to any new entrants if capacity is reached. Requiring an area to have ticketing is also an option, paid or not. The latter requires businesses to agree with it, but for some areas I'm sure agreements could be made.

At Japanese festivals I have seen some very good policing. They'll have roads closed and routes pre-determined for where people should go and how many.
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What I mean is, there should be some attempt kill the crowd before it can even begin. From what I understand people just kept arriving even as all this was happening. I've seen a couple vids of people just turning up with bodies all over place and not having a clue what just occurred. So even with SNS people were still pretty disconnected from the situation. So maybe something like cancelling trains and literally stopping people coming to the area. I have been in a few hairy situations in Japan with crowds but not at the event/location itself but when everyone tries to go home all at the same time and there's only one station, or reversely you just get off the train and are forced out the station by people lol. Oddly enough that was in Shin Okubo Station on a Friday night once.
 
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