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[Ghostmaster]

I don't know, looks like Putin is extremely popular in Serbia. And if "The Big Boss Vladimir" say 'pull the trigger' what then...?

He is, but people are forgetting two things:

1) There is a rather large american base on Kosovo. And there isn't anything on Kosovo that is worth Russia and America going to war

2) People are misinterpreting Putin's interest in Kosovo.
a) He wants to exchange recognition of Kosovo for the recognition of Crimea (which is unlikely to happen)
b) It's a great counterpoint for him whenever NATO complains about Russia annexing territories and meddling in other country's affairs.

 

[daemonkiller92]

I don't know, looks like Putin is extremely popular in Serbia. And if "The Big Boss Vladimir" say 'pull the trigger' what then...?

Though he is popular around here, and extremely unpopular in the west, he wouldn't gain anything from a war in these parts.

Also, depending on the elections in a couple of months, his influence might lessen quite bit. Though, it could, just as easily, increase by a large margin.

 

[d9b]

I know, it's just strange timing, Russia (Putin) "gifted" a fleet of warplanes to Serbia only recently and now Serbia is all of a sudden throwing their weight around with war cries from Serbian president. To say that Putin is artificially creating another conflict in Europe is not a far stretch, especially since he is also supporting separatist moves from Bosnian Serbs. As far as I can read all of the Serbia's neighbors are on edge over what's happening in the Balkans at the moment.

 

[VDenter]

This is bad at this point the only hope for stability in that region is if all countries join the EU. It at-least in theory it should keep the corruption and hatred level in check in that region. Its just that it needs to happen before another war escalates.

 

[spwolf]

Oh, I know that very well. But that doesn't mean I'm not amazed at the sheer balls on display here. Both at setting this up and thinking that nobody would realise what's going on.

it is for internal politics, not outside... so his voters know he is "protecting serbia" even when it needs to protection.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Serbia will take Kosovo when the time comes, we will all sit back and watch. Europe won't do shit besides our usual sanctions and you cannot join the EU rhetoric. In return Serbia will probably let the refugees through once Putin gives Erdogan the go ahead to open the gates. Viktor Oban will join in for lolz.

Let's face it, Vladimir has Europe exactly where he wants it. Trump isn't going to help either, because you got to pay to play.

Serbia couldn't take Kosovo much like Russia couldn't take Ukraine even if it wanted; only the north and a few small regions elsewhere are Serb-majority, and the Kosovar people are very used to resisting at this point. Even just the threat of a repeat of the NATO bombing campaign is enough of a deterrence.

Worst-case scenario is like Donbass or Transnistria with a foreign entity operating inside Kosovo's borders and effectively creating a frozen conflict zone.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I expected shit like this to happen as soon as Trump got elected, I just didn't think it'd happen this quickly. Typical Serbian nationalist tactics, this fucking country will never learn. I still got family there that suffered from the war so this strikes particularly close to home.

 

[petran79]

I expected shit like this to happen as soon as Trump got elected, I just didn't think it'd happen this quickly. Typical Serbian nationalist tactics, this fucking country will never learn. I still got family there that suffered from the war so this strikes particularly close to home.

Things in the so called "Western Balkans" arent any better in any country. All use nationalist tactics. Albania, FYR Macedonia, Kossovo, Serbia etc

Lets not forget their stance towards refugees.

 

[Kastrioti]

Serbia will take Kosovo when the time comes, we will all sit back and watch. Europe won't do shit besides our usual sanctions and you cannot join the EU rhetoric. In return Serbia will probably let the refugees through once Putin gives Erdogan the go ahead to open the gates. Viktor Oban will join in for lolz.

Let's face it, Vladimir has Europe exactly where he wants it. Trump isn't going to help either, because you got to pay to play.

Lmao and how are they going to do this? Kosovo is 90% Albanian, 10% Serbian

 

[Joni]

Serbia plays a weird political game. They are pro Russia but also going towards more EU/NATO integrations. They will have to pick a side eventually. I doubt it will be EU/NATO.

It will depend on whose money runs out first. They won't pick Russia if that means cutting their financial ties to the European Union. It is the same reason why Turkey still is a prospective EU member.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

serbia being serbia again?

In a nutshell.

 

[Hari Seldon]

There is a large NATO presence in Kosovo, it isn't just the US with troops there. Serbia isn't going to do anything.

 

[michaelius]

Serbia couldn't take Kosovo much like Russia couldn't take Ukraine even if it wanted; only the north and a few small regions elsewhere are Serb-majority, and the Kosovar people are very used to resisting at this point. Even just the threat of a repeat of the NATO bombing campaign is enough of a deterrence.

Worst-case scenario is like Donbass or Transnistria with a foreign entity operating inside Kosovo's borders and effectively creating a frozen conflict zone.

Trump would order USA forces to bomb Serbia in defense of Muslim country ?

That seems rather unlikely.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Things in the so called "Western Balkans" arent any better in any country. All use nationalist tactics. Albania, FYR Macedonia, Kossovo, Serbia etc

Lets not forget their stance towards refugees.

But unlike Serbia the others don't use them to try to move onto a people they tried to eradicate a few years ago.

 

[Frankfurter]

Trump would order USA forces to bomb Serbia in defense of Muslim country ?

That seems rather unlikely.

Even if he doesn't (he WILL once a single American soldier is hurt), there are troops of tons of other countries in there as well. Serbia trying to conquer Kosovo is asking to be bombed by NATO forces.

 

[petran79]

But unlike Serbia the others don't use them to try to move onto a people they tried to eradicate a few years ago.

There was a conflict between Albanians and Slavic Macedonians in FYR Macedonia, that ended in a humiliating defeat and retreat for the latter.

 

[Kabouter]

Even if he doesn't (he WILL once a single American soldier is hurt), there are troops of tons of other countries in there as well. Serbia trying to conquer Kosovo is asking to be bombed by NATO forces.

Serbia occupying the majority Serbian area in the north where NATO forces as far as I know aren't located on the other hand might not end with Serbia being bombed.

 

[Ozorov]

So now this: Serbia wants to annex part of Kosovo using 'Crimea model': president | Reuters



Thanks for your impressions, Hellraizer & Boozeroony.



Sounds like bs...
Where did you find it?

On liveleak

 

[ibyea]

Once again nationalism is worst ideology.

 

[Uzzy]

Even if he doesn't (he WILL once a single American soldier is hurt), there are troops of tons of other countries in there as well. Serbia trying to conquer Kosovo is asking to be bombed by NATO forces.

Trump says no, rest of NATO says yes. That looks like a split in the alliance to me.

 

[Frankfurter]

Serbia occupying the majority Serbian area in the north where NATO forces as far as I know aren't located on the other hand might not end with Serbia being bombed.

Serbia could do that, but to what end? Sanctions would happen, economy crippled even further.

Trump says no, rest of NATO says yes. That looks like a split in the alliance to me.

If this is Putin playing 8-dimensional chess, then yes that might be a possible strategy (a risky one, to say the least, considering that American troops are in Kosovo). But there still is Serbia, which needs to do the move. And they have nothing to gain.

 

[wittengstein]

Tensions will only get worse in the future with the upcoming tribunal based on the findings of the Marty report(alleged atrocities committed by Kosovo during the war by it's ruling and military elite,some of them still in office)

In Thrace there are also the Greek speaking Muslims

Wow,taking the government's narrative to the heart i see,they are not Greek speaking Muslims,they are the Turkish Minority whether Greek Government accepts it or not.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Serbia occupying the majority Serbian area in the north where NATO forces as far as I know aren't located on the other hand might not end with Serbia being bombed.

Northern Kosovo region will return to Serbia in not so distant future. The rest of the province, we will see.

And NATO won't bomb Serbia not now not anytime in the future because the Russian weapons deal goes much further than just guns. Putin won't allow anyone to bomb Serbia nor attack Republika Srpska. And he won't crack under pressure like Yeltsin did.
After Trump is inaugurated, he will focus on other things. Kosovo is only going to have issues going further considering it's a failed rouge region which has become a nest of jihadist training.

War wise, there won't be one and anyone trying to provoke Serbia into war is an idiot, considering our stellar army record going back to 1100 AD when most of the nationalities on the Balkan didn't even exist.

Serbia could do that, but to what end? Sanctions would happen, economy crippled even further.




If this is Putin playing 8-dimensional chess, then yes that might be a possible strategy (a risky one, to say the least, considering that American troops are in Kosovo). But there still is Serbia, which needs to do the move. And they have nothing to gain.

And EU what get what with sanctions? US tried it in the 1990s, didn't exactly work. And Serbia is linking with China and Eurasian Customs Union more and more. Sanctioning Serbia only means that we would plot our trajectory towards Eurasian integration so you would get a missile shield in the heart of the Balkans installed in no time and that would hurt EU defense a lot. Also, it would be a vile attack on the international law as:
1) Kosovo is Serbian territory.
2) According to UN resolution 1244 Serbia has the right to deploy armed forces north of the river Ibar, which separates northern and southern parts of Kosovo. This is the only standing UN resolution on Kosovo so EU would effectively be deploying sanctions against a UN decision which would be completely hilarious.

 

[JohnDoe]

Funny you mention international law. The ICJ already ruled Kosovo's independence as legal years ago so resolution 1244 is practically obsolete.

 

[SliChillax]

As an Albanian (not from Kosovo), I'm getting nervous. Hope our country stays out of any conflicts, we have lots of other problems and the country is finally starting to get on its feet. A conflict with Serbia is not what we want.

 

[Machina]

The world seems to be circling the drain in a hurry

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Funny you mention international law. The ICJ already ruled Kosovo's independence as legal years ago so resolution 1244 is practically obsolete.

Not true. ICJ ruled that "declaration of Independence" (as in the document) is not legal. Which means that "declaring" Independence as an act is not illegal, because there aren't exact laws that prohibit the act itself. This isn't the true for actually gaining Independence, because it is against principles of national sovereignty establish long ago and which are still in force.

So is resolution 1244 as nobody repealed it and it clearly states that Kosovo is:
1) A Serbian province.
2) Serbia has full rights to deploy military personal to the northern part of Kosovo if it so wishes.

This are facts.
Also, regarding the MIG purchase. Serbia did not update its fighting air force since before 1991 and it was decimated during the NATO aggression in 1999. The MIGs are going to be a gift from Russia, with Serbia only paying for modernization, so they are basically getting purchased for pennies on the dollar. It would be crazy not to buy them at those conditions. Nobody made a fuss when for example Hungary began purchasing new Swedish fighting jets, so I don't know what the problem here is.

 

[petran79]

Wow,taking the government's narrative to the heart i see,they are not Greek speaking Muslims,they are the Turkish Minority whether Greek Government accepts it or not.

Actually they consist of three minorities: Pomaks, Roma and Turkish speaking. There is a reason they're described as Muslim minority by the Lausane Treaty instead of Turkish. Or else you are homogenising a whole group that does not share a common history. Victims of power games between Turkey, Greece and Bulgaria.

Though some are neither accepted by Greece or Turkey, just like it happened 100 years ago with Greek speaking Muslims from Crete, moving to Aivalik. They werent treated that well by native Turks. Same for Rum Greeks moving to Greece

 

[Frankfurter]

And EU what get what with sanctions? US tried it in the 1990s, didn't exactly work. And Serbia is linking with China and Eurasian Customs Union more and more. Sanctioning Serbia only means that we would plot our trajectory towards Eurasian integration so you would get a missile shield in the heart of the Balkans installed in no time and that would hurt EU defense a lot. Also, it would be a vile attack on the international law as:
1) Kosovo is Serbian territory.
2) According to UN resolution 1244 Serbia has the right to deploy armed forces north of the river Ibar, which separates northern and southern parts of Kosovo. This is the only standing UN resolution on Kosovo so EU would effectively be deploying sanctions against a UN decision which would be completely hilarious.

Oh, you are one of those? Well then, I guess we disagree.


Edit: In terms of sanctions: EU is by far the most important market for imports and exports. But I mean... who cares about trade anyway?

 

[Magni]

War wise, there won't be one and anyone trying to provoke Serbia into war is an idiot, considering our stellar army record going back to 1100 AD when most of the nationalities on the Balkan didn't even exist.

Sigh.

Nationalism sucks.

 

[ClosingADoor]

And EU what get what with sanctions? US tried it in the 1990s, didn't exactly work. And Serbia is linking with China and Eurasian Customs Union more and more. Sanctioning Serbia only means that we would plot our trajectory towards Eurasian integration so you would get a missile shield in the heart of the Balkans installed in no time and that would hurt EU defense a lot. Also, it would be a vile attack on the international law as:
1) Kosovo is Serbian territory.
2) According to UN resolution 1244 Serbia has the right to deploy armed forces north of the river Ibar, which separates northern and southern parts of Kosovo. This is the only standing UN resolution on Kosovo so EU would effectively be deploying sanctions against a UN decision which would be completely hilarious.

So, about that.

As of 2013, the EU countries were the largest partners of Serbia in terms of export with the value of $8.810 billion (60.30%)

Serbia exports over 60% of its goods to EU countries. And you think sanctions don't have an effect?

Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro and Kosovo take 1.9 billion, so about 12%.

Russia comes in at $1.029bn, so around 7%. China might be a few hundred million.

If it comes to sanctions, Serbia will hurt because of it. Russia is not able to carry your economy.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Oh, you are one of those? Well then, I guess we disagree.


Edit: In terms of sanctions: EU is by far the most important market for imports and exports. But I mean... who cares about trade anyway?

I'm working with facts here. You can disagree, but doing so you would be arguing against the existing international law order.

Regarding the sanctions, I said it would blowback with Serbia choosing to integrate with Eurasia more and that would certainly lead to military cooperation. EU has much greater interest in keeping the Balkan peaceful than attempting to coerce a country to do something against its will.

So, about that.



Serbia exports over 60% of its goods to EU countries. And you think sanctions don't have an effect?

Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro and Kosovo take 1.9 billion, so about 12%.

Russia comes in at $1.029bn, so around 7%. China might be a few hundred million.

If it comes to sanctions, Serbia will hurt because of it. Russia is not able to carry your economy.

I'm not disputing that. But on the other hand, a lot of Serbian EU export is from EU companies operating in Serbia. Fiat alone exports over a billion dollars per year, most of it in the EU. By sanctioning trade, EU would be slamming its own companies.

 

[d9b]

War wise, there won't be one and anyone trying to provoke Serbia into war is an idiot, considering our stellar army record going back to 1100 AD when most of the nationalities on the Balkan didn't even exist.

If by "stellar army records" you mean lost battles, then you're right.
And it's Serbia provoking others by the way in this case.

 

[Frankfurter]

I'm working with facts here. You can disagree, but doing so you would be arguing against the existing international law order.

Regarding the sanctions, I said it would blowback with Serbia choosing to integrate with Eurasia more and that would certainly lead to military cooperation. EU has much greater interest in keeping the Balkan peaceful than attempting to coerce a country to do something against its will.

It will not be the EU that might end peace. It will be Serbia, if it ever decides to deploy troops in Kosovo. You can either accept that or stay in your own dimension, where Serbia can do whatever it wants with Kosovo.

I'm not disputing that. But on the other hand, a lot of Serbian EU export is from EU companies operating in Serbia. Fiat alone exports over a billion dollars per year, most of it in the EU. By sanctioning trade, EU would be slamming its own companies.

Serbias share of total EU trade: less than 1%
EUs share of total Serbia trade: ~60%

Now please take a wild guess who is gonna have more of an issue here.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

If by "stellar army records" you mean lost battles, then you're right.
And it's Serbia provoking others by the way in this case.

Yeah, because the Serbian Empire back in the day was built through lost battles. Serbia regained its Independence by loosing all the battles. Serbia won the First and Second Balkan wars by losing battles. WW1 and WW2 also. Get your facts straight.

It will not be the EU that might end peace. It will be Serbia, if it ever decides to deploy troops in Kosovo. You can either accept that or stay in your own dimension, where Serbia can do whatever it wants with Kosovo.

The issue here at stake is the northern Kosovo, which is populated by a Serbian majority and which pre - 1959 wasn't even part of Kosovo. They were added by a bureaucratic communist decision back then.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yeah, because the Serbian Empire back in the day was built through lost battles. Serbia regained its Independence by loosing all the battles. Serbia won the First and Second Balkan wars by losing battles. WW1 and WW2 also. Get your facts straight.

Every country has a stellar army if we cherry pick the battles and wars. It has zero influence over the events in modern times.

 

[d9b]

Yeah, because the Serbian Empire back in the day was built through lost battles. Serbia regained its Independence by loosing all the battles. Serbia won the First and Second Balkan wars by losing battles. WW1 and WW2 also. Get your facts straight.

Maybe in your fever nationalistic dreams fuelled by myths and legends. Meanwhile in the real world of credible historical records...
Get a grip man, Kosovo is not part of Serbia. If I'm correct even in ex Yugoslavia, Kosovo was autonomous province, so there's that as well.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Maybe in your fever nationalistic dreams fuelled by myths and legends. Meanwhile in the real world of credible historical records...
Get a grip man, Kosovo is not part of Serbia. If I'm correct even in ex Yugoslavia, Kosovo was autonomous province, so there's that as well.

Meanwhile in the real worlds Serbia was not a victor in the wars I mentioned? With WW1 and WW2 being the most important conflicts in 20th century. OK then seems like your knowledge of history is rather terrible.

 

[d9b]

Meanwhile in the real worlds Serbia was not a victor in the wars I mentioned? With WW1 and WW2 being the most important conflicts in 20th century. OK then seems like your knowledge of history is rather terrible.

Serbia won WW2? What are you talking about? Seriously dude...

Tito and his partisans (Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian and Serbian communists) won the war in the Balkans. Meanwhile, Serbia had a Nazi puppet regime (Milan Nedi&#263 and Nazi collaborator Chetniks guerrillas.

Why are we even talking about past, get on with the program, this is 2017. Kosovo is not Serbia and you'll have to find a way to deal with it. Any attempt by Serbia to use force will be Serbia's demise, surely even you are aware of that. Are you?

 

[Frankfurter]

The issue here at stake is the northern Kosovo, which is populated by a Serbian majority and which pre - 1959 wasn't even part of Kosovo. They were added by a bureaucratic communist decision back then.

Then start negotiations. Call upon Kosovo, the EU, and maybe Russia to sit down and have proper talks about the issue.

 

[mercenar1e]

Meanwhile in the real worlds Serbia was not a victor in the wars I mentioned? With WW1 and WW2 being the most important conflicts in 20th century. OK then seems like your knowledge of history is rather terrible.

Serbias chetniks didn't win WW2 lol

 

[Majmun]

Can't Serbia and Russia just fuck off with their provocative shit?

No one needs this, or another war.

 

[d9b]

Can't Serbia and Russia just fuck off with their provocative shit?

No one needs this, or another war.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Serbia won WW2? What are you talking about? Seriously dude...

Tito and his partisans (Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian and Serbian communists) won the war in the Balkans. Meanwhile, Serbia had a Nazi puppet regime (Milan Nedi&#263 and Nazi collaborator Chetniks guerrillas.

Why are we even talking about past, get on with the program, this is 2017. Kosovo is not Serbia and you'll have to find a way to deal with it. Any attempt by Serbia to use force will be Serbia's demise, surely even you are aware of that. Are you?

You are completely factually wrong.

War in the Balkans ended after Soviet Union stormed in, helped by partisans which were structured around Serbian troops the most BY FAR. Post - war army composition clearly reflects this. The 1944 fighting and mass mobilization was done after the Royal Government and exile and Tito made a deal. Serbia was always considered the victor in WW2, but your understanding of history is clearly deeply flawed or you are just making things up to further your arguments.
Croatians and some Bosnians (or Yugoslav Muslims as they called themselves pre - 1991), meanwhile, were busy fighting for the nazi puppet Ustasa regime, which committed worst atrocities than German SS. You are clearly a revisionist.

Then start negotiations. Call upon Kosovo, the EU, and maybe Russia to sit down and have proper talks about the issue.

The talks (Brussels dialogue) has been ongoing for years now about this very issue, among others.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Croatians and some Bosnians (or Yugoslav Muslims as they called themselves pre - 1991

You mean what Yugoslavia forced them to call themselves, right? Because they were never given the option of identifying as Bosnian on the census prior to 1991, even though they asked for the option in 1947.

Talk about revisionist history.

 

[d9b]

You are completely factually wrong.

War in the Balkans ended after Soviet Union stormed in, helped by partisans which were structured around Serbian troops the most BY FAR. Post - war army composition clearly reflects this. The 1944 fighting and mass mobilization was done after the Royal Government and exile and Tito made a deal. Serbia was always considered the victor in WW2, but your understanding of history is clearly deeply flawed or you are just making things up to further your arguments.
Croatians and some Bosnians (or Yugoslav Muslims as they called themselves pre - 1991), meanwhile, were busy fighting for the nazi puppet Ustasa regime, which committed worst atrocities than German SS. You are clearly a revisionist.

You have balls to post this and than call me a revisionist. Lol!

As I said, you are going way off topic in your imaginary time traveling facts bending machine. We are talking about Kosovo (year 2017) and Serbia's provocative moves that are clearly designed and orchestrated in Moscow to further destabilize EU by threats of another potential war zone in Europe.

 

[Joni]

If any major European country currently wanted Serbia gone, it would be defeated in minutes. They could decimate the entire country before Russia would even blink. That is how powerful Germany and France are. Performance in the past, especially imaginary ones, is not relevant.

The talks (Brussels dialogue) has been ongoing for years now about this very issue, among others.

And likely no serbian government will want to give up the billions those talks earn them.

 

[Phantast2k]

Belarus to donate fighter jets and surface-to-air missile systems to Serbia | Defence Blog

Good guy Lukashenko - the forever-president of Belarus.