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[br3wnor]

I can't empathize with this dude at all, he was an idiot who put the lives of others at risk because he made a completely indefensible decision. (And unlike Season 1, there's absolutely no mystery as to what he did, all they can really delve into are his motives which I really don't give a shit about)

My favorite part of episode 2 was when the narrator, after describing the conditions the guys looking for Bergdahl endured as they went on weeks long deployments w/out any resupply or time to rest, said something along the lines of "Well you're probably thinking they're complaining and shouldn't be because it's a war zone and this is expected" and I said out loud what the fuck? That's exactly the opposite of what I was thinking, all I was thinking was how if I was one of those guys searching for this moron for 19 days straight w/ my underwear rotting off of me and shitting in holes and having no way to clean myself or have any sort of break, I'd want to kill the fucker too.

We'll see as more episodes unwind, but I'm 100% on the side of the military on this one so far, Bergdahl deserves no sympathy and has no valid defense for his actions and the danger he put all those troops on the ground in. It was goosebump inducing when the one guy described that abandoned building they went into w/ the truck bomb in the living room and C4 all over the ceiling that was booby trapped and set up by false intel once the terrorists realized what was going on.

It's still expertly produced like season 1 and my interest in the Afghanistan war in general will probably keep me hooked until the end of the season just for the 'speaking to the taliban' parts alone, but overall not a huge fan.

 

[Karish]

It's not all bad, now I don't have to refill my Ambien prescription.

lol

 

[Dalek]

They made a massive strategic error in picking this topic.

Nope.

 

[infiniteloop]

They made a massive strategic error in picking this topic.

I get them trying something different, but it's been a disaster so far.

 

[~ Zyzomys ~]

I found episode one boring but on the strength of season one I started to listen to episode two. I fell asleep - I am done with this podcast.

Cheers

 

[wenis]

Great Episode. Still hooked on it.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I can't empathize with this dude at all, he was an idiot who put the lives of others at risk because he made a completely indefensible decision. (And unlike Season 1, there's absolutely no mystery as to what he did, all they can really delve into are his motives which I really don't give a shit about)

My favorite part of episode 2 was when the narrator, after describing the conditions the guys looking for Bergdahl endured as they went on weeks long deployments w/out any resupply or time to rest, said something along the lines of "Well you're probably thinking they're complaining and shouldn't be because it's a war zone and this is expected" and I said out loud what the fuck? That's exactly the opposite of what I was thinking, all I was thinking was how if I was one of those guys searching for this moron for 19 days straight w/ my underwear rotting off of me and shitting in holes and having no way to clean myself or have any sort of break, I'd want to kill the fucker too.

We'll see as more episodes unwind, but I'm 100% on the side of the military on this one so far, Bergdahl deserves no sympathy and has no valid defense for his actions and the danger he put all those troops on the ground in. It was goosebump inducing when the one guy described that abandoned building they went into w/ the truck bomb in the living room and C4 all over the ceiling that was booby trapped and set up by false intel once the terrorists realized what was going on.

It's still expertly produced like season 1 and my interest in the Afghanistan war in general will probably keep me hooked until the end of the season just for the 'speaking to the taliban' parts alone, but overall not a huge fan.

I'm totally with you on this. Luckily no one died, but he at best wasted everyone's time and at worst risked their lives and set back their normal operations.

 

[Struct09]

The story is interesting enough that I'll listen to it until the end, but not enjoying this season as much as the last one.

 

[KarmaCow]

I can't empathize with this dude at all, he was an idiot who put the lives of others at risk because he made a completely indefensible decision. (And unlike Season 1, there's absolutely no mystery as to what he did, all they can really delve into are his motives which I really don't give a shit about)

My favorite part of episode 2 was when the narrator, after describing the conditions the guys looking for Bergdahl endured as they went on weeks long deployments w/out any resupply or time to rest, said something along the lines of "Well you're probably thinking they're complaining and shouldn't be because it's a war zone and this is expected" and I said out loud what the fuck? That's exactly the opposite of what I was thinking, all I was thinking was how if I was one of those guys searching for this moron for 19 days straight w/ my underwear rotting off of me and shitting in holes and having no way to clean myself or have any sort of break, I'd want to kill the fucker too.

We'll see as more episodes unwind, but I'm 100% on the side of the military on this one so far, Bergdahl deserves no sympathy and has no valid defense for his actions and the danger he put all those troops on the ground in. It was goosebump inducing when the one guy described that abandoned building they went into w/ the truck bomb in the living room and C4 all over the ceiling that was booby trapped and set up by false intel once the terrorists realized what was going on.

It's still expertly produced like season 1 and my interest in the Afghanistan war in general will probably keep me hooked until the end of the season just for the 'speaking to the taliban' parts alone, but overall not a huge fan.

When that bit came up I was shocked too that anyone would feel that way.

I can't say I disagree with the general sentiment that Bergdahl fucked himself and should be reprimanded but I just can't make that leap to that he should be killed or even put in jail for life. The random quotes from the intro is still disturbing, like the one guy saying he should be shot, especially since he sounds like some random chucklefuck a news station asked after Bergdahl was returned. He was under the Taliban for 5 years as a prisoner. Even if he just straight up said he ran away instead of his asinine plot to bring about change, it seems crazy to me that he should be taken from one jail right into another. He wasn't doing this to be malicious, he didn't order soldiers to spend 19 days in shit covered pants or blindly run from one sketchy lead to another, he can't be held accountable for those failures. The quick bit that they throw out that perhaps the military's stomping around looking for Bergdahl might have tipped off the Taliban to his value was pretty poignant.

To be honest, while I still love Serial and think this could end up being a good story this was probably the first time that I didn't have the "I MUST HEAR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT" after listening to it.

Stuff like how the military was completely unable to even formulate a plan to get him besides throwing more and more bodies at it or Taliban's own version of the events to spin things in their favour is much more interesting to me than a random murder case. It's perhaps cold to say that since season 1 was about real people but the most interesting part of that season wasn't if Adnan did it or not but reporting on the case itself.

That said it's true, this season doesn't really have a through-line like season 1's question of did Adnan actually do it so I'm wondering how long this can be sustained for. Season 1 clearly was a mess and they had no what to do after a while either. However, this season doesn't have a direct line to Bergdahl and is kinda stuck on a periphery of the events. It seems like this season is still being made as it airs so I'm really hoping they at least have a structured plan for the episodes.

 

[Dalek]

Hearing the part about the guy who shit himself and then had to wear those pants for like 18 days....good lord.

 

[CambriaRising]

Not into this story at all. It sucks the guy is in deep shit even after surviving 5 years in captivity but he went out of his way to put himself in that position.

I just don't care about it.

 

[Coolluck]

Not into this story at all. It sucks the guy is in deep shit even after surviving 5 years in captivity but he went out of his way to put himself in that position.

I just don't care about it.

I don't know. So far it seems like he's made changes to try and make himself seem more sympathetic at points, downplaying the way he was treated, and removing the karate portion of his capture which sounds like something he'd try.

As for the show, I came to Serial S1 when it was almost finished. I needed to get caught up as people were talking about it week to week. This one feels like something I can let pile up into my backlog and then burn off in one or two sessions. Really makes me wonder how we got Osama though if they couldn't get this guy.

 

[Ragnorok64]

I can't empathize with this dude at all, he was an idiot who put the lives of others at risk because he made a completely indefensible decision. (And unlike Season 1, there's absolutely no mystery as to what he did, all they can really delve into are his motives which I really don't give a shit about)

My favorite part of episode 2 was when the narrator, after describing the conditions the guys looking for Bergdahl endured as they went on weeks long deployments w/out any resupply or time to rest, said something along the lines of "Well you're probably thinking they're complaining and shouldn't be because it's a war zone and this is expected" and I said out loud what the fuck? That's exactly the opposite of what I was thinking, all I was thinking was how if I was one of those guys searching for this moron for 19 days straight w/ my underwear rotting off of me and shitting in holes and having no way to clean myself or have any sort of break, I'd want to kill the fucker too.

We'll see as more episodes unwind, but I'm 100% on the side of the military on this one so far, Bergdahl deserves no sympathy and has no valid defense for his actions and the danger he put all those troops on the ground in. It was goosebump inducing when the one guy described that abandoned building they went into w/ the truck bomb in the living room and C4 all over the ceiling that was booby trapped and set up by false intel once the terrorists realized what was going on.

It's still expertly produced like season 1 and my interest in the Afghanistan war in general will probably keep me hooked until the end of the season just for the 'speaking to the taliban' parts alone, but overall not a huge fan.

It seems to me that soldiers killing him if/when they found him would make all the effort even more worthless than them not finding him. Also what does it say about what war does to people's mental state that the one commander could recognize from the get go that he'd need to be on the helicopter with him, if they found him, or else Bowe probably wouldn't make it back safe and sound.

 

[Brakke]

Remarkable how this show went from Total Phenomenon poised to usher in a New Age Of Media to... a thing people barely care about.

 

[Nappuccino]

Remarkable how this show went from Total Phenomenon poised to usher in a New Age Of Media to... a thing people barely care about.

Story selection is king. I miss the absolute insanity of season 1, where every crossed wire felt massive and unbelievable. This season is interesting, but hasn't been nearly as enlightening. Episode 4 seems like it could be getting to what I'm currently missing.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Remarkable how this show went from Total Phenomenon poised to usher in a New Age Of Media to... a thing people barely care about.

I think this is a massive generalization and an overstatement.

 

[Brakke]

I think this is a massive generalization and an overstatement.

It's been a huuuuuge swing. Season 1 I couldn't not know when a new episode dropped, my Twitter would just explode with "Mail Kimp" posts. I guess I don't know what audience is for the new one but response is definitely less conspicuous. Did the audience drop out, or does this one just lend itself less to discussion?

 

[KarmaCow]

It's been a huuuuuge swing. Season 1 I couldn't not know when a new episode dropped, my Twitter would just explode with "Mail Kimp" posts. I guess I don't know what audience is for the new one but response is definitely less conspicuous. Did the audience drop out, or does this one just lend itself less to discussion?

Each episode doesn't really provide any insight to a larger mystery like last season because everything was pretty much laid out in the first episode. There is the for/against with whether Bergdahl deserves harsh punishment I guess but nothing really controversial or murky.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

It's a fascinating story because it's documenting an unprecedented spanner in the works of a very big, complicated machine, and I'm glad it exists because of that. Hearing about the ways a system like the military reacts and jumps into action, and how the different "sub-Taliban" forces and other cultures in Afghanistan reacted is valuable reporting.

It isn't season one level compelling, obviously, but I don't need it to be. Honestly, I didn't expect it to be after such a short gap in between seasons.

The central question here isn't as sexy as "did he dun it?", but "how much punishment should any one person have to endure for criminal negligence/stupidity" is a question I don't have a clearly formed opinion on. I'm glad this is making me think about it, I guess?

 

[aceface]

I listened to all of season one and the first few episodes of season 2 in the last week and I'm finding season 2 way more compelling.

Season one boiled down to a murder mystery involving a bunch of teens whom I mainly found insufferable. Yeah I don't think Adnan did it but at the end of the season we're no closer to the truth then we were at the beginning. It's a bunch of stoner kids either lying or not remembering and it just drove me crazy.

Season 2, if Berghdal did leave for the reasons he said, yeah he's stupid too. However his story is a way to look in depth at the Afghanistan war and the Taliban, a subject that is infinitely more interesting to me and I'm looking forward to learning more about.

 

[Dalek]

I listened to all of season one and the first few episodes of season 2 in the last week and I'm finding season 2 way more compelling.

Season one boiled down to a murder mystery involving a bunch of teens whom I mainly found insufferable. Yeah I don't think Adnan did it but at the end of the season we're no closer to the truth then we were at the beginning. It's a bunch of stoner kids either lying or not remembering and it just drove me crazy.

Season 2, if Berghdal did leave for the reasons he said, yeah he's stupid too. However his story is a way to look in depth at the Afghanistan war and the Taliban, a subject that is infinitely more interesting to me and I'm looking forward to learning more about.

I found episode 3 fascinating because of this. Bringing us into his point of view during capture was riveting. I find it so odd that the Taliban insisted that he was their "guest".

 

[Dalek]

The two perspectives on Bergdahl's captivity are really interesting. Whenever they get into that I'm hooked. When they start talking about motives for going AWOL and the feelings Bowe and various military personnel have on the topic I literally fall asleep.

I now know that there are thousands of people who think Americans are drunk all that time. That's hilarious.

I can't decide if they really think that's true or if they were just trying to ask nonsensical questions.

 

[Resident_UA]

I can't decide if they really think that's true or if they were just trying to ask nonsensical questions.

I'm pretty sure they actually believe it. Ask an average American what they know about taliban, you will also get misinformed responses.

 

[Slacker]

Enjoying the new season so far. Not sure I understand some of the complaints I'm reading. "I can't sympathize with Bergdhal." Is that necessary to enjoy the story? I sure didn't sympathize with Robert Durst while watching The Jinx but I was on the edge of my seat watching that.

Looking forward to hearing more next week.

 

[civilstrife]

I honestly think most people complaining about this season don't understand what this series is about in the first place.

 

[Dalek]

I honestly think most people complaining about this season don't understand what this series is about in the first place.

I think they feel it's supposed to be like an Unsolved Mysteries type of thing where they set out to solve it. The original premise was basically to explore a story that couldn't be covered in one episode of This American Life.

 

[Futureman]

I haven't listened yet... actually may not, haven't decided yet. So this isn't a comment on quality of season 2.

but I haven't met one person in real life who has brought up Serial Season 2. I wonder if they've been disappointed with the number of listens? Seems to not be striking a chord with the public like the first one.

 

[Brakke]

I haven't listened yet... actually may not, haven't decided yet. So this isn't a comment on quality of season 2.

but I haven't met one person in real life who has brought up Serial Season 2. I wonder if they've been disappointed with the number of listens? Seems to not be striking a chord with the public like the first one.

I have a group of friends in the world and on Twitter who all talked about Season 1 eps the day they'd release. I haven't even discussed this season with them at all yet. There's two factors I think: 1) this season just isn't as popular, fewer people are listening; 2) this one is much harder to talk about. It's feels kind of weird for a civilian to take stances on military issues. The first one opened all kinds of questions about ethical reporting that this one basically doesn't. This story is basically told already if you go looking for newspaper coverage; Serial brings more personality and detail but there aren't really facts open for discovery.

I'd love to know Sarah Koenig's thoughts on the phenomenon that was season 1 vs the subdued response to season 2.

 

[soco]

i'm really enjoying this season so far. completely different story, but it's still fascinating to see how these things work. i definitely want to hear more of the details about the issues he was trying to bring to light.

 

[LifEndz]

Episode 3 was dragging along, but when they got to his 2nd (3rd technically) attempted escape, I was riveted. This is a really weird experience. I go from feeling nothing for this guy because what he did and his motives were so incredibly reckless and idiotic, but damn if what he's gone through isn't heartbreaking. It's sorta like one of those videos of someone entering a tiger cage at a zoo for no apparent or exigent reason and getting mauled. Horrific but wtf were you thinking.

Worst part is this guy is going to face a court martial and a possible life sentence.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I loved episode 3. It would work great as a standalone episode as it has all the hallmarks of a great adventure: escaping prison, being stuck in a foreign land, coming close to death, etc.

 

[Nappuccino]

I haven't listened yet... actually may not, haven't decided yet. So this isn't a comment on quality of season 2.

but I haven't met one person in real life who has brought up Serial Season 2. I wonder if they've been disappointed with the number of listens? Seems to not be striking a chord with the public like the first one.

Season 2, Taliban's perspective of his treatment and capture vs bergdahl's aside, is much more conclusive. There isn't a water-cooler "let's solve this mystery together" element, at least not so far. I'm also a bit less interested in the author's interview style than Sarah. He doesn't seem to dig at much, like Sarah seemes to.

 

[daveo42]

Episode 4 came out early today. Interesting episode coming from the differences between the way Bowe and David were treated, the relationship between Pakistan and the Haqqani Network, and the fact that Bowe even survived the ordeal. We probably haven't even gotten to some of the worse stuff beyond

Spoiler

the torso cutting.

Sarah also has a masterful way of setting up future episodes.

Edit: The shift this season is actually kind of welcome. The whodunit scenario of season 1 was amazing up until they realized they didn't really have a yes/no ending. This is just a thrilling story they don't really have to solve, just tell well. So far, they have definitely delivered.

 

[pantsmith]

I can't empathize with this dude at all, he was an idiot who put the lives of others at risk because he made a completely indefensible decision. (And unlike Season 1, there's absolutely no mystery as to what he did, all they can really delve into are his motives which I really don't give a shit about)

My favorite part of episode 2 was when the narrator, after describing the conditions the guys looking for Bergdahl endured as they went on weeks long deployments w/out any resupply or time to rest, said something along the lines of "Well you're probably thinking they're complaining and shouldn't be because it's a war zone and this is expected" and I said out loud what the fuck? That's exactly the opposite of what I was thinking, all I was thinking was how if I was one of those guys searching for this moron for 19 days straight w/ my underwear rotting off of me and shitting in holes and having no way to clean myself or have any sort of break, I'd want to kill the fucker too.

We'll see as more episodes unwind, but I'm 100% on the side of the military on this one so far, Bergdahl deserves no sympathy and has no valid defense for his actions and the danger he put all those troops on the ground in. It was goosebump inducing when the one guy described that abandoned building they went into w/ the truck bomb in the living room and C4 all over the ceiling that was booby trapped and set up by false intel once the terrorists realized what was going on.

It's still expertly produced like season 1 and my interest in the Afghanistan war in general will probably keep me hooked until the end of the season just for the 'speaking to the taliban' parts alone, but overall not a huge fan.

I don't disagree with you, but I think instead of him being right or wrong this time, its more about examining all of the impossible to deal with circumstances of the story. For example: why punish a man who has been through hell? What good does it do at this point?

A lot of fascinating perspectives and stories I would have never had otherwise, so I'm surprised at how successful this season as been for me.

 

[RustyNails]

Not really enthused about Season 2. But Bergdahl's antics have kept me interested.

 

[Tobor]

I'm ok with the whodunit crowd being unhappy. Hopefully the show is still successful with a more reasonable audience with realistic expectations.

Season 2 has been a superb listen so far. I look forward to years of reporting of this quality.

 

[JCX]

Not really enthused about Season 2. But Bergdahl's antics have kept me interested.

It's clear that Bowe is just a reason to do some in depth storytelling about the Afghan War. It's not as gripping week to week, but I'm still enjoying it. Season 2 is more in line with what I expected out of Serial initially based on SK's This American Life stories.

 

[LifEndz]

Listening now just for the details of his capivity. Things like someone cutting you 60-70 times with a razor blade or being beaten with a hose. The psychological stuff is very fascinating as well. It'd probably be so easy to just let yourself delve into madness. I'll follow the details of his upcoming court martial, but I'm still torn on how I feel about him.

I also wish I had waited for all the episodes to be released before listening. 45 minutes per week? Not nearly enough.

 

[aerts1js]

Season 2 is okay/good taken on it's own.

However, compared to the first season it's a MASSIVE step down in regards to what made the first season so fun/gripping.

 

[Blader]

The torture that Berghdal suffered is absolutely insane. You can read about "American POW freed after five years of captivity" and think, wow, that guy must've gone through some shit. But to actually hear the endless examples of how he was tortured, beaten, and humiliated is something else entirely. Having your hands and feet beaten by a rubber hose, your chest slowly cut over 600 times, living in your own literal shit, living in a barred cage, etc. And for five fucking years. The tedium and pain of it for a week sounds excruciating, but five goddamn years!

I think the example that hit me the most was in either the first or second episode, when Bowe talks about how just sitting in complete darkness for extended periods of time -- where you can't see anything, can't interact with anything, can't even see your own -- caused him to lose sense of who and what he was.

I'd love to know Sarah Koenig's thoughts on the phenomenon that was season 1 vs the subdued response to season 2.

She's probably thrilled about it.

True crime is a much sexier, social media and discussion-friendly topic than POW torture and military court matters. "Did Adnan do it? Did Jay do it?" raises a much different, and more engaging, conversation than "So what did you guys think about him having diarrhea for five years?" It's not as fun to talk about, so people are less inclined to talk about it. And unlike Adnan's case, which was unknown to virtually everyone, there are probably many many people who -- however informed they are about the case -- have likely already made up their mind about what they think about Bowe, and don't feel the need to listen to his years of torture.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I've enjoyed the second season a great deal so far. Narratively-speaking, it is fairly impressively layered, switching deftly from the "micro" of Bowe's story to the "macro" of the region's geopolitics. It's been fascinating, for me (apart from some very slight editorializing from Koenig/Boal that insert their opinions and take me out of it, so to speak, though this is almost unnoticeable).

I'm actually glad they ditched the "whodunit" angle of the first season. Programs like The Jinx and Making a Murderer have picked up this torch and ran with it. While clearly influenced by Serial, they arguably best it. The second season demonstrates that they want to expand the podcast's horizons and continue to trail-blaze, rather than attempting to one-up themselves or their various spiritual successors. I prefer this approach, and I think it's what Koenig had in mind from the get-go.

 

[SuperPac]

It's easy to look at the story only on its face - guy deserts, is captured, held captive for 5 years, but he was a deserter so he should be punished!

But there is more to the story than the headline. Sometimes it's hard to see that. For someone like me who has not paid much attention to the military or the war outside of headlines, this level of reporting is fascinating.

 

[Karish]

I am not sure if we have LEARNED any new information in the past 3 episodes. We are mostly hearing his experience. This is just so bizarre.

 

[Dalek]

I've enjoyed the second season a great deal so far. Narratively-speaking, it is fairly impressively layered, switching deftly from the "micro" of Bowe's story to the "macro" of the region's geopolitics. It's been fascinating, for me (apart from some very slight editorializing from Koenig/Boal that insert their opinions and take me out of it, so to speak, though this is almost unnoticeable).

I'm actually glad they ditched the "whodunit" angle of the first season. Programs like The Jinx and Making a Murderer have picked up this torch and ran with it. While clearly influenced by Serial, they arguably best it. The second season demonstrates that they want to expand the podcast's horizons and continue to trail-blaze, rather than attempting to one-up themselves or their various spiritual successors. I prefer this approach, and I think it's what Koenig had in mind from the get-go.

Agreed all around. Glad to see other "Whodunits" popping up-but the appeal of This American Life was that every week it was a different theme, setting, story, etc. Serial is basically This American Life but exploring ONE story over a season instead of an episode.

 

[Redx508]

Got this email today

Hello!


I have news: We are changing the schedule, so that now, new episodes of Season Two will come out every other week, instead of once a week. I know! I know...it’s maybe not what you wanted to hear. But, there’s a good and exciting reason, which is that we’re adding more material. This story goes in so many directions, and as we’re reporting it we’re getting access to more of the key people close to Bergdahl’s case, and to more information than we initially thought we would. Which is great. And which means we’re going to be adding at least one extra episode to the series. To do that—or at least to do it right—will take some time. Hence the change.


So to be clear: The next episode of Serial will come out on Thursday, Jan. 21st. During in-between weeks, we’ll have new posts and graphics on our website. We’ll keep you updated on all of that via our social media accounts.


And thank you, everyone, for listening to the show. Your response has been terrifically encouraging.

 

[Fuu]

Just get the e-mail. Interesting development, I'm glad they're getting more material as they're reporting so the change in schedule doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Brakke]

Huh. Have any of you engaged with Serial as a Multimedia Project? Even in Season 1 I barely spent time on the website with all the maps and stuff. Personally I'm only really interested in Serial as Podcast.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm actually glad they ditched the "whodunit" angle of the first season. Programs like The Jinx and Making a Murderer have picked up this torch and ran with it. While clearly influenced by Serial, they arguably best it.

Order the three programs you referred to were produced:
1) Making a Murderer (~2005)
2) The Jinx (~2012)
3) Serial (~2013)

 

[backflip10019]

In case you missed it, Serial is going biweekly to work in more reporting time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/b...g-more-reporting-time-goes-biweekly.html?_r=0

 

[SummitAve]

I've been enjoying this season, but this does not get me excited unless the episodes become significantly longer and less produced.