Support NeoGAF

[godhandiscen]

Today, Schwartz, 59, says the rent debt has climbed to nearly $34,000. For the former AIDS activist and Bernie Sanders supporter, it’s a strange reversal to be advocating for landlords in a changing Bay Area.

“This is the best place in the world to be who I am, and I love that there are such strong tenants’ rights,” she said. “Except in a situation like this.”

A dating coach, an eviction standoff and the coming reckoning for Bay Area landlords

In the Oakland hills, a two-year tenant standoff illuminates a battle over pandemic rent...

www.sfchronicle.com

I feel bad for the landlord honestly, but I have a friend in the same situation and it sounds like everybody is in favor of tenant protections until it works against them.

 

[Haint]

Can't get anymore Bay Area than a Lesbian Dating Coach and Holistic Medicine Witchdoctor fighting over rent and evictions.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A dating coach, an eviction standoff and the coming reckoning for Bay Area landlords

In the Oakland hills, a two-year tenant standoff illuminates a battle over pandemic rent...

www.sfchronicle.com

I feel bad for the landlord honestly, but I have a friend in the same situation and it sounds like everybody is in favor of tenant protections until it works against them.

Thats because most people arent landlords. So for most people they think landlords are all rich dudes and if they lose out on rent it's not a big deal.

That's like me going to your house and walking out with your second tv because I think you can get by life without it. You got another tv anyway and the tv I'm swiping off you is only worth $600, so who cares. It's just $600. If I walked out taking someone's $20 toaster they'd even freak out, so for sake of respect for landlords, all you deadbeats out there have some respect when there's $1000s on the line. And in some cases $10,000s.

But when they become one and they live the experience of deadbeat tenants (I got burned with one) who dont pay and leave in the middle of the night, it's a pain in the ass. Funny how that works.

No bank is going to pause your mortgage payments due to a midnight runner tenant. No utility company will give you a breather, and when property taxes are due the local government doesn't care about your problems. Bills are due and you got to pay. Tenants on the other hand can drag it on. Going through court orders trying to drag a tenant to pay, I don't even think you can get the courts to even get them to comp you an additional $50+ for the court application.

And tenant laws always protect the tenants more than the landlord even though most landlords are just everyday people trying to get through life with now two mortgages. Giant landlord/property management corporations with 5000 units are few.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

100% agree with StreetsofBeige here.

I totally get people falling on hard times, and I’m sure most landlords would be willing to help out with reduced rent or something in these situations. Our landlord (who was already a personal friend to be fair) was wonderful during the pandemic, and offered us reduced rent without us even asking.

But scumbags openly refusing to pay anything or move out because they know the law invariably has their back are pieces of shit who should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

100% agree with StreetsofBeige here.

I totally get people falling on hard times, and I’m sure most landlords would be willing to help out with reduced rent or something in these situations. Our landlord (who was already a personal friend to be fair) was wonderful during the pandemic, and offered us reduced rent without us even asking.

But scumbags openly refusing to pay anything or move out because they know the law invariably has their back are pieces of shit who should be ashamed of themselves.

And there can be times we still get fucked too.

for those of you thinking how can a landlord get screwed over? Don’t you collect first and last month rent to cover your ass if a tenant skips out?

maybe. But when you try to be nice guy Mr. Furley and let it slide a month or teo because the story is a family member is sick, then what am I gonna do? Go through the hassle of courts and eviction and finding a new tenant? Or TRUST someone just needs a bit more time and things get back to normal? Well, you guys know route I took being a trusting guy and got screwed over. Person bolted so fast they didn’t even take all the shit with them. Had to spend and afternoon with a good buddy who helped me to clean out the unit and dump all their shit bit by bit to the condo garbage room, including cleaning out the fridge.

that’s why there’s a term called Professional Tenants. They dick around knowing the tenant laws and know it’s not worth the hassle to go after them. As my real estate lawyer said, even if you get them to court to pay they might not even be able to anyway. So just cut your losses and move on.

What people don’t realize unless they were a landlord is that not only is there money risk with a property and money risk with a tenant, but when they bolt it costs extra money as you can’t just get a new tenant tomorrow. It takes time to get another one which is less cash flow. Also when dead beats bail ship they bail. As I said above it’s not like they move out nice and clean. More hassles to empty the unit..

 

[Ionian]

Thats because most people arent landlords. So for most people they think landlords are all rich dudes and if they lose out on rent it's not a big deal.

That's like me going to your house and walking out with your second tv because I think you can get by life without it. You got another tv anyway and the tv I'm swiping off you is only worth $600, so who cares. It's just $600. If I walked out taking someone's $20 toaster they'd even freak out, so for sake of respect for landlords, all you deadbeats out there have some respect when there's $1000s on the line. And in some cases $10,000s.

But when they become one and they live the experience of deadbeat tenants (I got burned with one) who dont pay and leave in the middle of the night, it's a pain in the ass. Funny how that works.

No bank is going to pause your mortgage payments due to a midnight runner tenant. No utility company will give you a breather, and when property taxes are due the local government doesn't care about your problems. Bills are due and you got to pay. Tenants on the other hand can drag it on. Going through court orders trying to drag a tenant to pay, I don't even think you can get the courts to even get them to comp you an additional $50+ for the court application.

And tenant laws always protect the tenants more than the landlord even though most landlords are just everyday people trying to get through life with now two mortgages. Giant landlord/property management corporations with 5000 units are few.

Brilliant post. Am a landlord myself.

You get lucky with some tenants but even good ones can turn around and bite you if they feel slighted.

Doesn't matter if you did anything wrong. They go on the attack once you ask them to leave.

For context; massive housing crisis here. Just isn't worth the stress despite the money to pay bills for the house.

Edit#2: Vandalism is also a thing. Normal wear and tear is fine but doing this for decades it's so rare. Anyone who is genuine got their deposit back with no questions asked. I feel sorry for anyone starting down the road as it truly takes time to figure it out.

You will get screwed unless you adapt quick enough.

But I guess all landlords are bastards, yet people complain about having nowhere to rent. Imagine that.

Personally, I've next to given up despite my hard work and good intentions.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I'm surprised with what Ionian and StreetsofBeige posted - given a huge demand for housing don't you have a very strict acceptance policy? In France renting an apartment is literally a job interview - you build your dossier, need to provide salary slips for the last 3 months, better of course if you work in a good company and are in good position, etc. In such a situation it's absolutely unimaginable someone bolting in the middle of the night.

 

[Ionian]

I'm surprised with what Ionian and StreetsofBeige posted - given a huge demand for housing don't you have a very strict acceptance policy? In France renting an apartment is literally a job interview - you build your dossier, need to provide salary slips for the last 3 months, better of course if you work in a good company and are in good position, etc. In such a situation it's absolutely unimaginable someone bolting in the middle of the night.

Oh it's the same here, it's all you can ask for.


Doesn't stop some people from not paying though. Nothing you can do about it without having to get a sheiff involved. Even that takes ages and more time and money.

Just part off the game, some people know this and play into it. Just a sad reality of doing businesses.

Sometimes it's simply cheaper to cut your loses and move on.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Can't get anymore Bay Area than a Lesbian Dating Coach and Holistic Medicine Witchdoctor fighting over rent and evictions.

People said they could be anything..

 

[Mistake]

I met a guy recently who went to jail for 6 months because of this kind of thing. The tenants wouldn’t pay or leave, so he threatened them with a gun. I know you’re supposed to give an eviction notice and go through the courts, but when the court is backed up or doesn’t care, what is a person to really do? It’s messed up.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Oh it's the same here, it's all you can ask for.


Doesn't stop some people from not paying though. Nothing you can do about it without having to get a sheiff involved. Even that takes ages and more time and money.

Just part off the game, some people know this and play into it. Just a sad reality of doing businesses.

Sometimes it's simply cheaper to cut your loses and move on.

I met a guy recently who went to jail for 6 months because of this kind of thing. The tenants wouldn’t pay or leave, so he threatened them with a gun. I know you’re supposed to give an eviction notice and go through the courts, but when the court is backed up or doesn’t care, what is a person to really do? It’s messed up.

Exactly.

It's a pain in the arse with a bad tenant.

And amazingly, the gov does nothing. You'd think if it's easy street, how about any tenants broke and need a room, the gov houses them until they can get back on their feet and they handle the hassle, while the landlord finds a new tenant? But they'd never do that.

Also, what any of you non-landlords might not know is even if it's obviously the tenant is balking at paying, it's not like a court order is like Judge Judy where everyone gets into a room and she rules the landlord wins and pay up. There's prelim mediation meetings with a moderator. All the tenant has to do is stress they need a bit more time and the mediator can make a ruling to give them more time so its back to square one. Only in repeated offences will it press forward and the landlord can an eviction ruling. And it still takes time for them to leave.

 

[saiws]

maybe tenant protections are in place to protect people who have no assets as opposed to the landlords here having renters pay into their wealth.
not saying people don't sometimes game the system but the odds will forever be in favor of those who can own more than one home and have other people pay for a large portion of it.

 

[strange headache]

A lesbian date coach and a new age pseudo-therapist... do people in SF still have real jobs?

 

[NahaNago]

maybe tenant protections are in place to protect people who have no assets as opposed to the landlords here having renters pay into their wealth.
not saying people don't sometimes game the system but the odds will forever be in favor of those who can own more than one home and have other people pay for a large portion of it.

Aren't landlords also citizens of a country as well and shouldn't they also have some protections. If the government is pretty much forcing you to keep these folks in your property they should at least pay the landlord or give some taxbreaks when these issues arise.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I met a guy recently who went to jail for 6 months because of this kind of thing. The tenants wouldn’t pay or leave, so he threatened them with a gun. I know you’re supposed to give an eviction notice and go through the courts, but when the court is backed up or doesn’t care, what is a person to really do? It’s messed up.

What are they to do? Maybe don't threaten them with a gun???? Because the is the most messed up part of that story.

Doesn't matter of the courts are backed up.

 

[Ionian]

Exactly.

It's a pain in the arse with a bad tenant.

And amazingly, the gov does nothing. You'd think if it's easy street, how about any tenants broke and need a room, the gov houses them until they can, the landlord is fucked. get back on their feet and they handle the hassle, while the landlord finds a new tenant? But they'd never do that.

Also, what any of you non-landlords might not know is even if it's obviously the tenant is balking at paying, it's not like a court order is like Judge Judy where everyone gets into a room and she rules the landlord wins and pay up. There's prelim mediation meetings with a moderator. All the tenant has to do is stress they need a bit more time and the mediator can make a ruling to give them more time so its back to square one. Only in repeated offences will it press forward and the landlord can an eviction ruling. And it still takes time for them to leave.

You absolutey nailed it. Unless you call a sheriff (who does?) the landlord is screwed.

Sheiffs don't call out like the cartoons. Police can't interfere either.

A landlord is screwed and some people know that and abuse it.

 

[Ionian]

Aren't landlords also citizens of a country as well and shouldn't they also have some protections. If the government is pretty much forcing you to keep these folks in your property they should at least pay the landlord or give some taxbreaks when these issues arise.

That would be nice, doesn't happen where I live though.

As I previously mentioned have been bottled, stabbed and hospitalised for both.

I can laugh about it now but was no joke at the time.

Once a tenant pays they feel they own the place, simply how it works.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Once a tenant pays they feel they own the place, simply how it works.

And thats the problem.

Laws protect deadbeats so they feel entitled to plant their ass and not move. And it takes a lot of effort to move their ass.

If someone walked into someone's garage and stole a rusty lawnmower worth zero dollars, cops would be called and that guy would be held accountable. Even though the lawnmower is shit and might not even work. But hey. You steal, you face the consequences.

A deadbeat not moving an inch and owing $1000s to a landlord can stay.

If someone tried to do that at a hotel, they'd be kicked out. Not really any different if you think about it. Some guy supposedly agrees to pay in return for having a place to stay. If that guy balks and say Im not paying as he cancelled his credit card while already in his room, cops would haul his ass out of there if hotel staff called. Doesn't matter how poor he is or how bad the winter weather is. You're out.

 

[zeorhymer]

Been hearing about SF for years that if you own property there, never rent. You'll never kick them out. Landlords have no rights in the SF.

 

[highrider]

Another day in NeedlesandShitsco.

 

[dave_d]

Been hearing about SF for years that if you own property there, never rent. You'll never kick them out. Landlords have no rights in the SF.

And if you're like me and have actually taken Econ 101 and 102 you realize this garbage invariably leads to shortage in housing as more and more people that might have considered renting out a house decide it's not worth it and just sell it. (Which of course surprises the people that push for all these tenant rights.)

 

[Ionian]

And if you're like me and have actually taken Econ 101 and 102 you realize this garbage invariably leads to shortage in housing as more and more people that might have considered renting out a house decide it's not worth it and just sell it. (Which of course surprises the people that push for all these tenant rights.)

Bang on the money, how people don't understand this is shocking.

People give up once they have useless tenants. It's their right to as well. Their house.
You're renting the place.

 

[Ionian]

Here's Ireland right now;

Opposition says Budget does 'nothing' for renters as minister hints at 'more permanent caps'

SocDems TD Cian O’Callaghan told the Dáil: “What does this Budget do for renters? Nothing.”

www.thejournal.ie

It's insane. Haven't raised my rent in 10 years at least. Just never thought it was justified and the house is in the centre of the capital.

They still complain. I just nod and ignore them and fix any issues.

EDIT: 1400 3 bed- semi-detached. In the city, close to the centre. Massive garden as well which is very unusual.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

5% less kids started school in Paris this year. FIVE percent, raising costs of rent are said to be one of the factors - can't say I'm surprised, our rent increased by approx. 10% in 3 years.

 

[Ionian]

5% less kids started school in Paris this year. FIVE percent, raising costs of rent are said to be one of the factors - can't say I'm surprised, our rent increased by approx. 10% in 3 years.

Good for you, I never did. 5% is tiny.

Rents go up? a crazy thing.

 

[Ionian]

Ireland ia going mental. did I raise rent?

no.

Sould I have, debatable.

Felt it wrong.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

5% less kids started school in Paris this year. FIVE percent, raising costs of rent are said to be one of the factors - can't say I'm surprised, our rent increased by approx. 10% in 3 years.

Ive been in my current house for 4 years and property tax has gone up about 25%. And during this time, I had to sink about $5000 to fix my roof, and $3000 to replace the washer and dryer which broke a year after I moved in.

The reason why property taxes go up a lot even though every city will have some ballpark calculation like homeowner property tax is 1% of value is because government property appraisers run around and assess everyone's home and spit out a value. Then it gets multiplied by the rate.

To be transparent, the value they appraise is always much lower than the market value (at least here it is), and the home appreciation will always be 10x bigger than any property tax spike, however, unless someone sells their home it's still a cash flow grilling. Me, I dont care. I can pay the extra $1000. But some people are tight and you cant expect someone to just eat it because their home value gone up so who cares.

That's like Mcdonalds whose property values go up a lot (watch that good movie with Michael Keaton playing the McDonalds guy) not being allowed to raise prices of food if they can balance it out with their plot of land going up in value which they might sell 40 years later. Not the same thing as McDonalds head office tried to control franchises land, but if a restaurants owned their own land it is the same thing.

The goal for most landlords is to have monthly rent balance out monthly costs (mortgage, utilities, condo fees, property taxes (split by 12) etc...). No landlord wants to purposely be in the hole cash flow negative if they can help it. Be cash flow neutral or on the plus side.