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[u_neek]

Just completed Star Ocean 3 - need another RPG fix..

Which one to buy??

 

[jiggle]

SH2 +1

 

[u_neek]

I haven't played the first one at all and i don't plan on doing it..

Will I still enjoy Covenant?

 

[Wario64]

Haven't played either (or really hyped up about either), but I'd say get SMT, simply to show support for the game. It is the first game to come over to the states I think and I have a feeling the game might not sell well here

 

[SolidSnakex]

SMT RPG of the year.

 

[JackFrost2012]

SMT, SMT, SMT

 

[Bebpo]

Skip lunch for a few days and buy both.

As much as SMT needs all the help it can get in sales to show US support, SH2 is in the exact same position with the first game having bombed in the US and the 2nd game bombing in Japan.

If you want them both to get sequels (which any rpg fan should since they both are freaking excellent), then buy both at full price. You'll easily get more satisfaction out of the 100 hours spent with both games, than anything else you can buy for $100.

 

[bloke]

SH2 is better game overall, not that SMT isn't without its charms.

 

[demi]

I haven't played the first one at all and i don't plan on doing it..

Will I still enjoy Covenant?

Sure, there's not really much requirement to play the first, except when memorizing key characters and what not. Besides, they pretty much recap the entire story in the first disc. Oh and certain items are obtained if you have a save, that's about it.

SHADOW HEARTS COVENANT +1

 

[maskrider]

SH:C without a doubt.

 

[JackFrost2012]

SH:C without a doubt.

I fucking doubt that! Harshcore!

Bepbo is right that both games need support ... however, SH2 is a one-off from Midway in the states, while SMT is from Atlus and the latest game in Japan's longest-running RPG series after FF and DQ. And Kazuma Kaneko shits all over every other character designer in the business.

Sooooo while both games are good and you should support them, supporting SMT means a good game now and more SMT in the US later, whereas supporting SH2 just gets you a good game now.

 

[maskrider]

I fucking doubt that! Harshcore!

Bepbo is right that both games need support ... however, SH2 is a one-off from Midway in the states, while SMT is from Atlus and the latest game in Japan's longest-running RPG series after FF and DQ. And Kazuma Kaneko shits all over every other character designer in the business.

Sooooo while both games are good and you should support them, supporting SMT means a good game now and more SMT in the US later, whereas supporting SH2 just gets you a good game now.

Put your fucking doubt to yourself. Every game needs support and everyone has their fucking preferences.

 

[demi]

I fucking doubt that! Harshcore!

Bepbo is right that both games need support ... however, SH2 is a one-off from Midway in the states, while SMT is from Atlus and the latest game in Japan's longest-running RPG series after FF and DQ. And Kazuma Kaneko shits all over every other character designer in the business.

Sooooo while both games are good and you should support them, supporting SMT means a good game now and more SMT in the US later, whereas supporting SH2 just gets you a good game now.

Shadow Hearts 2 has a bigger penis.

 

[JackFrost2012]

Put your fucking doubt to yourself. Every game needs support and everyone has their fucking preferences.

Precisely, which is why a blanket statement like:

SH:C without a doubt.

is fucking stupid, wouldn't you agree?

 

[maskrider]

is fucking stupid, wouldn't you agree?

I will repeat it again and again without a doubt, "SH:C without a doubt". I don't think I need to add IMO/IMHO in front of every post.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Hey guys how about "they both fucking rock so sell blood/kidneys/various other organs/little brother so you can afford both!"?

Works for me.

 

[JackFrost2012]

I will repeat it again and again without a doubt, "SH:C without a doubt". I don't think I need to add IMO/IMHO in front of every post.

Okay, so when you make blanket statements of one game being absolutely superior to another one, it's fine, but when I say "I disagree" and explain that while both games are good and need your support but I think you should support SMT for these reasons, I'm out of line.

GOT IT.

The worst part about message boards is you have to share them with other people.

 

[Greenpanda]

I'm gonna say SMT3. I've been playing Shadow Hearts Covenant and while I'm enjoying it, it's not quite a top-tier title (IMO). For one thing, it's a fairly standard RPG, so you're not missing anything too unusual if you put off playing it.

I'm expecting better things from SMT3 (hope I'm not disappointed!), so I'm gonna say that.

 

[maskrider]

Okay, so when you make blanket statements of one game being absolutely superior to another one, it's fine, but when I say "I disagree" and explain that while both games are good and need your support but I think you should support SMT for these reasons, I'm out of line.

GOT IT.

The worst part about message boards is you have to share them with other people.

I have paid my part and bought Japanese versions of SMT3:N and SMT3:NM, why is it so hard to understand that people can like one game and doesn't like as much on another ?

Every good game needs support and you cannot possibly play all of them. That's why someone asked others preference on which to get.

 

[Greenpanda]

Oh and certain items are obtained if you have a save, that's about it.

D'oh, did you have to load up the SH1 file at the start of the game? I think my SH1 file is on another card, so I didn't even know you could do that.... (and the crummy manual doesn't say a peep about it)

 

[keeblerdrow]

Shadow Hearts 2 was cool and all, but some of the quirks in it, like the wolf's inner dialogue, just turned me off. I'll be getting SMT:Noctourne this week, and so should you.

 

[demi]

D'oh, did you have to load up the SH1 file at the start of the game? I think my SH1 file is on another card, so I didn't even know you could do that.... (and the crummy manual doesn't say a peep about it)

It automatically loads every time you start the game.

One of the items is a special male model card for the dollmaker, and can be found in Geppetto's room after the guards attack. I'm sure there are many others though.

 

[Bebpo]

Shadow Hearts 2 was cool and all, but some of the quirks in it, like the wolf's inner dialogue, just turned me off. I'll be getting SMT:Noctourne this week, and so should you.

Arghhh the wolf's dialogue was hilarious. Especially so since he was played by the voice actor of Gundam's Char in the Japanese version, which made the Gundam references in the game freaking hilarious.

And that scene at the train station with the little girl in disc2? So many good memories from that game ^__^

 

[Greenpanda]

It automatically loads every time you start the game.

One of the items is a special male model card for the dollmaker, and can be found in Geppetto's room after the guards attack. I'm sure there are many others though.

Hmm, I think that got that one. Does any SH1 save work or do you have to be at the last save point or something like that?

 

[maskrider]

Hmm, I think that got that one. Does any SH1 save work or do you have to be at the last save point or something like that?

As long as there is a save, it works. Shouldn't have requirement on the save.

 

[Greenpanda]

As long as there is a save, it works. Shouldn't have requirement on the save.

OK, cool.

 

[maskrider]

OK, cool.

But better put them on the same memory card.

 

[Ar_]

Jiggle, can you direct me to a place to download a full sized version of your avatar and some some other SH art?

SH2, thought I haven't played it yet, gets my vote because:
- Is already out
- The first game was low production values but still great, and this one seems to have improved on everything.
- The devs might use some help after the bomb in Japan. With the steady increase in the quality of their games, would be a pity to not see any more from them.

SMT is good, but judging from 5 hours playtime, may turn out less awesome than you'd expect from the hype here.

Among its strong points, the fastest version of FF battle system I have seen, some useful support battle skills and mechanics, the ability to recruit almost every creature in the game (bosses included), a story that doesn't look like it will hold back much for fear of shocking the viewer, interesting ambientation.
And I love the pre-boss-encounter music, mixing aggressive and omnious vibes!

Rough spots: somewhat low framerate, tons of random battles.
More disappointing, the npc interaction feels limited so far; we saw those cool characters in the screenshots, but mostly I havel met blue glowing "souls" in the game, and the interaction consists of a brief first perspective view of the character talking.
Yes, thats standard for jap rpgs, but I was kinda hoping for something more given the fame of non-linearity of the title.
The freedom and depth I expected, so far are limited to the above average party recruitment and battle skill systems; story and exploration and world interaction have been extremely basic and linear.
The story, after a nice introduction, pretty much disappeared.
What it currently amounts to, is a long walk & fight thru an irrationally linear path, without a sense of purpose in going on, other than it is the only avaliable option! Hopefully will pick up again soon.

On the weird side, is the lack of chemistry among people in that world - feels like the nemesis of Final Fantasy and most other jap rpgs with their We All Friends And Help Each Other atmosphere.
Here, you meet again a friend you had lost sight of in a recent cataclism, and the conversation goes like "Oh you are alive. I'm glad. Got to go bye". Still the dialogue can be interesting in other ways.

 

[maskrider]

Jiggle, can you direct me to a place to download a full sized version of your avatar and some some other SH art?

I am not Jiggle but I do have some scans with that art of the cover of SH II Complete guide

http://gallery.felixmcli.org/gallery/sh-scans/shII_thecompleteguide

The gallery has some other scans, too.

 

[Ar_]

Many thanks

 

[DarienA]

Get both. No good can come from only purchasing one of these beauties... we have to keep RPG sales up all across the genre!

 

[Ar_]

Yes, ultimately I second this suggestion AND Growlanser.
Nice niche games need support (I HOPE they are nice, at least)

 

[dark10x]

Rough spots: somewhat low framerate, tons of random battles.

Sub-30 fps?

How frequent are the battles? I mean, I played the Suikoden IV demo yesterday, and they threw battles at you (literally) once every 3 seconds. It was juat a constant onslaught. It turned me off and will keep me from playing the game...

 

[wipeout364]

I bought Covenant and have preordered SMT. Its too bad you didn't preorder Covenant because you got a free copy of shadow hearts 1. THat was awesome except now I have two since I bought SH1 when it came out LOL.

 

[Ar_]

Dark10x: Not choppy, but when the perspective rotates is really noticeable the blur effect, with the image doubling. Hard on the eyes.

Random battles are really frequent, you better be ready for it.

On the good side, are also fast - especially against weak enemyes. A single button press activates the auto(melee)attack, and blows are then exchanged frantically, IIRC close to 3 attack in 2 seconds.
I read on Gamefaqs boards that a spell should become avaliable relatively early (haven't seen it myself yet), allowing to skip battles with creatures under your level for a set time....

Since play pretty well, SMT battles didn't bother me for a while, even thought I traditionally loathe them.
I did get moderately annoyed over time thought, especially when had to backtrack for some reason, and autoattack isn't always feasible.

A nice touch is the effect with which enemyes appear in random battles, dark thunders striking in front of you, somewhat helping to reduce the absurdity of them appearing from nowhere - they supposedly just teleported in!

 

[belgurdo]

You'd be missing out on a lot if you only got one or the other. SHC has some pretty intelligent writing (more or less) for a Japanese RPG, and the combat is improved from the dragged out boringness that was the first game; SMT is...well, SMT.

 

[RevenantKioku]

SH2 is coming to me courtesy of the buy 2 get 1 when/if that happens at TRU.
SMT will be mine day of release.

I believe all should act similarly.

 

[dark10x]

Well, hopefully the random battles won't bother me TOO much in SMT3. If they are as quick as you say, I think I might be able to handle it...but if they occur every 3 steps or something, I might have a difficult time getting through it.

I'm already enjoying Shadow Hearts 2, though. I'm about 20 hours in and I'm loving it! The game feels a bit segmented (due to the way the map is handled) and the towns are limited as hell, but the experience has been great. The characters are just awesome! The game can be serious when it wants to, but the humor is the best part. Good stuff.

Also, I really like the battle system. I find myself actually anticipating various boss battles and such. It is quite addictive...

 

[ferricide]

Dark10x: Not choppy, but when the perspective rotates is really noticeable the blur effect, with the image doubling. Hard on the eyes.

Random battles are really frequent, you better be ready for it.

i don't really agree with either of these statements. i mean, the game is fucking *gorgeous*. the art direction shits on everything else. maybe that blinded me? no. the framerate is fine.

and the random battles aren't overly frequent -- it's just that there's no "safe zone". unlike a regular RPG, there aren't "towns" so you never find any break from them. but i'd say they're not much more frequent than SHC.

my advice is also: buy both. un-buy star ocean, or don't buy it if you haven't yet.

 

[dark10x]

i don't really agree with either of these statements. i mean, the game is fucking *gorgeous*. the art direction shits on everything else. maybe that blinded me? no. the framerate is fine.

and the random battles aren't overly frequent -- it's just that there's no "safe zone". unlike a regular RPG, there aren't "towns" so you never find any break from them. but i'd say they're not much more frequent than SHC.

my advice is also: buy both. un-buy star ocean, or don't buy it if you haven't yet.

That's good news. Shadow Hearts 2 has a very acceptable encounter rate, but if they increase that a bit AND make the battles much faster...I don't think it will be a huge problem.

Too late on Star Ocean, though. Finished the game and loved it. The battles were incredibly fun and kept me playing well past the actual ending. I'm not the only one either.

 

[ferricide]

Too late on Star Ocean, though. Finished the game and loved it. The battles were incredibly fun and kept me playing well past the actual ending. I'm not the only one either.

yes, and you'll all die in the great purge.

er, i mean, congratulations.

 

[Brandon F]

Speaking of Star Ocean, I beat Lenneth finally over the weekend at the bottom of that ultra tedious 100+ floor dungeon. Her chibi form made targetting her a very arduous task, but she was a push over as was the other bonus boss sitting in wait just beyond her.

Freya on the other hand...egads what a bitch. Max level 255 and equipping uber-refined ultimate equipment still isn't enough to topple or survive her ephemeral blasts. Seems the only chance of survival is to synth 8 boots of prowess to a weapon for Fayt...ugh. Time to just retire from the game anyway.

 

[Ar_]

i don't really agree with either of these statements. i mean, the game is fucking *gorgeous*. the art direction shits on everything else. maybe that blinded me? no. the framerate is fine.

and the random battles aren't overly frequent -- it's just that there's no "safe zone". unlike a regular RPG, there aren't "towns" so you never find any break from them. but i'd say they're not much more frequent than SHC.

my advice is also: buy both. un-buy star ocean, or don't buy it if you haven't yet.

Well, the blur effect when the camera rotates, and the "doubling" of the image, are really evident to me. Noticed them right at the start, and find them fatiguing for the eyes.
If I had to make I bet, I'd put my money that most people will notice this as well. Anyone who played the game wants to chime in?

About the random encounters: you say yourself that the rate is higher than in other games, and that is further increased by the scarcety of no-combat zones... and come to the conclusion that they aren't frequent?
To someone saying that he doesn't like random encounters, I find there is ground to give a word of caution about it.
Again, at least the decent battle system makes them more tolerable.
Is no Grandia or Dragon Quarter quality, but as far as vanilla Final Fantasy engines go it is enjoable: fast, useful support skills, potential to deal or take brutal punishment by exploiting characters weakness (thought it is a matter of memorizing those weak spots rather than developing a strategy), high level of customization of party members and skills.

 

[dark10x]

"Doubling" of the image? What do you mean by that?

 

[RevenantKioku]

About the random encounters: you say yourself that the rate is higher than in other games, and that is further increased by the scarcety of no-combat zones... and come to the conclusion that they aren't frequent?

Actually I don't believe that's what he said, just the lack of safe-zones makes it appear more frequent. Which, technically makes the game contain a higher percentage of time you'll spend in battle, but the actual amount of time between them isn't so bad.
Although, I haven't played SMT3 yet, I know it still has the "battle after a battle". I do know from SMT that it gets pretty rough sometimes.

 

[dark10x]

Are the battles more or less frequent than, say, Eternal Arcadia?

Also, what's the word on the US version of Digital Devil Saga? The game seems interesting to me, but the fact that it was called "the most difficult RPG ever made" by someone has me quite worried. Of course, I've heard the same line passed around for Dragon Quarter and that was anything but frustrating. How hard is DDS really? Any chance of an easier mode?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Are the battles more or less frequent than, say, Eternal Arcadia?

Also, what's the word on the US version of Digital Devil Saga? The game seems interesting to me, but the fact that it was called "the most difficult RPG ever made" by someone has me quite worried. Of course, I've heard the same line passed around for Dragon Quarter and that was anything but frustrating. How hard is DDS really? Any chance of an easier mode?

If the SMT release tells us anything, I'm going to guess there might be selectable difficulty modes in our release. And Atlus is still claiming November on that one...we'll see.

 

[Yusaku]

Vocting Nocturne.

 

[Ar_]

RevenantKioku, that might be...
I had the impression the encounter rate varied with the area, at times didn't seem too bad, others I was fighting all the time.
Btw, the encounters seem to happen at set intervals, indicated by an icon changing colour over time. Maybe I'll go time it in a few.

For the "doubling", I don't know the exact word.... have you present the effect on Metal Gear for PS1? Like that, without the blur filter applyed on the cutscenes.
Basically, to create an illusion of smooth movement with a limited framerate, the engine visualizes each frame blurred togheter with the previous one, causing the "doubling" of the image when an object moves fast on screen - evident when you turn around, since the objects fartest away must move fast.
It might be a weird artifact caused from my tv, but find more likely that Ferricide played on a small screen so it wasn't evident for him.

 

[maskrider]

If the SMT release tells us anything, I'm going to guess there might be selectable difficulty modes in our release. And Atlus is still claiming November on that one...we'll see.

Japanese SMT3:NM also have hard/normal selections when you start a new game.