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Shadow Hearts: Covenant... best RPG on the PS2?
- Thread starter whytemyke
- Start date
Drinky Crow
Banned
You ain't sellin' me or Robin up there on Xenogears' quality.
Xenogears rocks, and I'm always ready to defend it. Although at GAF, it seems to be a lot more popular to complain about it with Drinky leading the way. For people who aren't used to it, be prepared. 
Perhaps I can't explain why I like it so much, but I do know I like the game a lot. And that's enough for me. I even played it through thoroughly a second time just to make sure. Anyway, been some time since I played it, and I didn't take notes any of the times I played it so I can't comment in detail exactly what I love about the game...but I'll do my best!
The characters are for the most time great...the plot twist with Fei was awesome, Citan was a very reasonable and likeable character (the kind of character I dig), and Billy simply kicked ass! The game is truly epic...probably the most epic RPG I've played...mixing in gods, religion, personal tragedies and all that jazz, spanning over a great length of time. Yes I am aware of that it's not the ultimate story beating every novel in the world with its fascinating and deep analysis of religion and life and death and yada yada yada. But I still find the story deep and enjoyable enough for me. People say the story was boring, but it was the total opposite for me...the story really carried the game. And when I say story I'm not specifically talking about the "main" plot, but also about all the smaller events that take place throughout the game. I like cinematic games, and I didn't mind the story-telling parts with Citan at all.
The music rocks, the graphics were a nice mix of 2D and 3D, I enjoyed the battles (and unlocking new moves), although the gear battles were somewhat simple. And all the small details in the world, the story and the game itself, all the events you take part in...it's just a very memorable game to me. The most memorable.
Perhaps I can't explain why I like it so much, but I do know I like the game a lot. And that's enough for me. I even played it through thoroughly a second time just to make sure. Anyway, been some time since I played it, and I didn't take notes any of the times I played it so I can't comment in detail exactly what I love about the game...but I'll do my best!
The characters are for the most time great...the plot twist with Fei was awesome, Citan was a very reasonable and likeable character (the kind of character I dig), and Billy simply kicked ass! The game is truly epic...probably the most epic RPG I've played...mixing in gods, religion, personal tragedies and all that jazz, spanning over a great length of time. Yes I am aware of that it's not the ultimate story beating every novel in the world with its fascinating and deep analysis of religion and life and death and yada yada yada. But I still find the story deep and enjoyable enough for me. People say the story was boring, but it was the total opposite for me...the story really carried the game. And when I say story I'm not specifically talking about the "main" plot, but also about all the smaller events that take place throughout the game. I like cinematic games, and I didn't mind the story-telling parts with Citan at all.
The music rocks, the graphics were a nice mix of 2D and 3D, I enjoyed the battles (and unlocking new moves), although the gear battles were somewhat simple. And all the small details in the world, the story and the game itself, all the events you take part in...it's just a very memorable game to me. The most memorable.
Drinky Crow
Banned
If you have a fetish for generic anime tropes, I can't deny that you'll dig Xenogears; however, that sure as hell doesn't make it critically palatable.
I would agree that Covenant is the best RPG on PS2 but there are a few others that come close, espcially since I really liked Nocturne. As mentioned before, the game is a lot more character oriented, which is one of its high points, IMO.
Looking forward to your SH 3 impressions, Bebpo.
Looking forward to your SH 3 impressions, Bebpo.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Yeah, currently, Nocturne and Dragon Quarter are the best RPGs.
Brandon F said:
True, but you KNOW you're doing well when you can wipe out an entire enemy party with 1 rush. Hell, my milestones aren't so much what level I've reached, but what level contains no monsters that can survive my rush! Hahahah. Love that game.
Drinky Crow said:
Some of the concepts covered in xenogears are incredible, it's just uncanny how closely they resemble some of the most advanced designs I've been able to cook-up and've come across... considering the vast amount of knowledge I've amassed(with regards to ai/molecular biology/genetics/brain/mind/molecular manufacturing/etc), and looking back at xenogears, either this is just a very strange coincidence, or whoever wrote the story must have at least been exposed to omega class memes, that is ones that lead to unlimited potential.
PS
About the game, I'll give my 2 cents
After various replays, I must finally admit there are some dungeons I just TRULY DESPISE. Battlewise I'm unaffected by unlimited random encounters(I've spent many hours battling low lvl monsters, aka negligible exp, in many an rpg), or repetitive/monotonous things(I can stare at a blank wall for days without getting bored), thus I did enjoy the many battles, and deathblows.
The other aspects that I like about the game are the character designs and concepts that are given within the game. Some of the mech/char/enemy designs. are just uber(xenogears/emeralda/id/graf/citan/elly/elements/etc). The concepts too are just... simply put pure gold, the hints here are enough to guide you through to the optimal path, if you look carefully and think them through. The story is also quite a good scifi one(I just luv the way they treat religion, the conflict between different social classes, etc, and things like the orphanage/billy story and soylent green are just... = priceless :lol. They don't seem to take themselves too seriously, and they obviously go to the extreme with some dark humor thrown in there for good measure. ), right up there with Asimov, in my book.
TheJollyCorner
Member
against popular GAF opinion, I still think Final Fantasy X is the best overall RPG on the PS2. Great story, awesome presentation, wonderful collaboration of music by Uematsu/Hamauzu/Nakano, and still some impressive & beautiful atmospheres/effects for a game that's damn near 4 years old. With the exception of a couple, the characters overall were compelling- especially the whole Braska/Jecht/Auron aspect.
FFX is still my RPG of this generation. Sadly, I wish I could say that for FFXII by now...
FFX is still my RPG of this generation. Sadly, I wish I could say that for FFXII by now...
TheJollyCorner said:
Actually, I don't think FFX is nearly as much hated as people imagine here. It's just that the haters tend to be more vocal.
And I agree with you that FFX is the best RPG for PS2 overall...apart from the music. I would instead like to hold the ability and especially the battle system as the best parts of the game.
I didn't read this thread, but after having SH:C sitting unplayed for months I finally started playing through it last week. I've just started the second disc and I have to say that this is easily one of my 2 favourite PS2 RPG's, and I agree with the last post that FFX is great.
I liked Shadow Hearts and it was so great to start this game and see how everything that was lackluster in the first was improved so much. Thus far I'd rate it a bit above FFX and just behind FM4 (despite the flaws I just love FM3 and 4 so much, it's exactly what I love about console RPGs).
It's so great to go back to a game you stopped playing after a couple of hours and really getting into it.
I liked Shadow Hearts and it was so great to start this game and see how everything that was lackluster in the first was improved so much. Thus far I'd rate it a bit above FFX and just behind FM4 (despite the flaws I just love FM3 and 4 so much, it's exactly what I love about console RPGs).
It's so great to go back to a game you stopped playing after a couple of hours and really getting into it.
Space Age Playboy
Banned
You're dissing Xenogears for its graphics? It was 3D on the PSX, what do you expect?
Anyway back on topic, I agree that SH:C is the best RPG on the PS2, and that's not saying much for the PS2's RPG library.
Anyway back on topic, I agree that SH:C is the best RPG on the PS2, and that's not saying much for the PS2's RPG library.
The PS2's rpgs haven't lived up to the PSX rpgs in my opinion. I really enjoyed Shadow Hearts Covenant, SMT: Nocturne, and Digital Devil Saga. I will probably love Dragon Quest VIII the most though.
Final Fantasy X was a weird game for me. I basically played right until the end. Maybe 3 hours away from beating the game and I just stopped and never went back. I can't even look at the fucking game without getting queasy. I remember playing Grand Theft Auto 3, and Metal Gear Solid 2 instead. I even played these games through multiple times. I even beat Suikoden III so I'm definitely not picky about RPGs I play.
I really need to try Wizardry it seems. I'm down for some dungeon crawling.
Final Fantasy X was a weird game for me. I basically played right until the end. Maybe 3 hours away from beating the game and I just stopped and never went back. I can't even look at the fucking game without getting queasy. I remember playing Grand Theft Auto 3, and Metal Gear Solid 2 instead. I even played these games through multiple times. I even beat Suikoden III so I'm definitely not picky about RPGs I play.
I really need to try Wizardry it seems. I'm down for some dungeon crawling.
No way, SMTN is best RPG this gen I clocked over 100 hours on the fucker and if weren't because my cousin stole the game from me I would've clocked a lot more hours.
People that says Nocturne doesn't have a story fuck them the game doesn't give you everything in long as fuck scenes the story is subtle and optional the game doesn't force the storyline down your throat like some games do(Xenogears and Xenosaga are obvious example although I like xenogears) but if you paid attention to it is one of the deepest storylines around and of course the story for once in RPGs is original no love interest or saving the world because some fucker one day decided to destroy it, the battle system is not complicated but simple and effective the whole press turn system while not being overly complex has a lot more strategy than a lot of complicated battle systems in RPGs that are complex just for the sake of being complex and the music is good while not Uematsu caliber it gets the job done and last but not least the whole breeding demons system fucking rocks so many mythological references and creatures seriuosly STMN is the best RPG I played in a long time and best RPG i played this gen.
People that says Nocturne doesn't have a story fuck them the game doesn't give you everything in long as fuck scenes the story is subtle and optional the game doesn't force the storyline down your throat like some games do(Xenogears and Xenosaga are obvious example although I like xenogears) but if you paid attention to it is one of the deepest storylines around and of course the story for once in RPGs is original no love interest or saving the world because some fucker one day decided to destroy it, the battle system is not complicated but simple and effective the whole press turn system while not being overly complex has a lot more strategy than a lot of complicated battle systems in RPGs that are complex just for the sake of being complex and the music is good while not Uematsu caliber it gets the job done and last but not least the whole breeding demons system fucking rocks so many mythological references and creatures seriuosly STMN is the best RPG I played in a long time and best RPG i played this gen.
I'm with a couple of you guys, FFX was terrific. It's my favorite RPG this generation, BUT this generation sucks for RPGs compared to what we got on PlayStation last gen, in my little opinion.
And keep in mind I've sadly yet to play SH2.
Paper Mario 2 comes in a VERY close second, then ToS. (.. or if Xenogears came out this generation of course ..)
But yeah, FFX seems to mainly be hated by certain "gamers" on forums. It's probably the most mainstream popular FF since FFVII. Seems like it has a huge female fanbase too.
I dunno, I really liked the story and the setting seemed different and new. The battle system was also very fun.
(As for X-2, it was just "pretty good", nothing more. HORRIBLE story for the most part, but a fun, if unbalanced, fighting system.)
On that note.. I should go pick up SH2 this week, after Meteos.
And keep in mind I've sadly yet to play SH2.
Paper Mario 2 comes in a VERY close second, then ToS. (.. or if Xenogears came out this generation of course ..
)But yeah, FFX seems to mainly be hated by certain "gamers" on forums. It's probably the most mainstream popular FF since FFVII. Seems like it has a huge female fanbase too.
I dunno, I really liked the story and the setting seemed different and new. The battle system was also very fun.
(As for X-2, it was just "pretty good", nothing more. HORRIBLE story for the most part, but a fun, if unbalanced, fighting system.)
On that note.. I should go pick up SH2 this week, after Meteos.
Ash Housewares
The Mountain Jew
Drinky Crow said:
BLAND GUMBO?
wtf kinda Gumbo you been eatin? dis ain't right...
BobbyRobby
Member
I haven't gotten to SHC yet, but so far Suikoden III has been my favorite RPG, which is sad.
You can say that again.
Its not just me, right?
Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy IX, the Suikodens, the Tales of Destinys, the Lunars, Xenogears, Grandia, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile. Hell, I even liked the lesser RPGs like SaGa Frontier, Azure Dreams, Wild Arms, Legend of Legaia, and Rhapsody.
What the hell happened.
Tony HoTT said:
You can say that again.
Its not just me, right?
Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy IX, the Suikodens, the Tales of Destinys, the Lunars, Xenogears, Grandia, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile. Hell, I even liked the lesser RPGs like SaGa Frontier, Azure Dreams, Wild Arms, Legend of Legaia, and Rhapsody.
What the hell happened.
BobbyRobby said:
Amen. Personally, I love Legend of Dragoon too, but that seems to be hated around these parts. Thought it was fun as hell with a pretty cool battle system, although not really originally in any way. It was just trying to be FFVII, but it was great on its own I think.
Dunno why Sony hasn't gotten around to a sequel yet. It has a huge fanbase. I remember back when I read PSM a year or so ago there was a letter in it every couple months asking about LoD2. :\
BobbyRobby
Member
Zeo said:
I gotta play this soon. I remember getting it for my birthday right after release, and popping it in only to see a message saying that my PS1 had been modified. I still have it, but just never got around to it.
BobbyRobby said:
I don't think it's entirely subjective either. No one really tried to accomplish anything that hadn't been already accomplished last generation. Bringing RPGs to the CD format made a lot of difference I think. Also Square was way more active. It's incredible how important they were for the Playstation. For me Square was the Playstation.
Some of the more experimental games like the Dark Cloud series were good on the PS2 though. We just had a lot of variety on the PSX. I find I want to replay a lot of Playstation rpgs rather than working through some of the shit I haven't completed on the PS2.
keeblerdrow
Member
Drinky Crow said:
When did you jump in with the Dragon Quarterites? Welcome and we'll be teaching you the secret handshake sometime soon.
Gibbo said:
Third Age has great production values, looks good, good music, adequate voice acting, great animation, etc...
Here's the problem with Third Age IMO...
1. battles are slow as shit(I thought I'd never say this.. but there is a such thing as overdoing it for special attacks. I mean even basic special attacks have a shitload of animation associate with them)..... but the biggest offender.
2. You gain specials slow as shit... Each time you use a particular special you gain one point in that category... 1 friggin point?!?!? SLoooooow.
Gibbo said:
No(and I always try to complete all RPGs I start) I ended up stopping probably just before the halfway mark... the slowness of obtaining new skills forces you to artificially extended battles so you can keep using specials to gain more points... and even though I have no problem with random battles, this was just too much.