Lunarwhale
Member
Definitely agree. It's not a very good design to me. On top of being related to Demeter only through some mental gymnastics, it's visually very dull as well, with the cornucopia being the only remotely memorable/eye-catching part.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
BrokenJohnCena
Member
Is it me or Etrian Odyssey and Shin Megami Tensei are similar in term of presentation?Apart from being made by Maniax and being a first person dungeon crawler,both are consisted of a team being built 100% by the players choice,from the members to their skills(well,smt also has a protagonist but lets just ignore that)
Blasted and Infernal Tokyo is good ! And yeah, I agree that SMTIV atmosphere is decent, but probably my least favorite out of the game I played. Like I said before, SMTIV Tokyo feels...lively and not as bleak/depressing.
snow in jamaica
Member
I feel comfortable saying Doi's Demeter is the absolute worst demon design in the series. A cthonic mother has been portrayed as a perky little girl for no other reasons than otaku bait and purported """uniqueness""".
Just to precise one thing : Etrian Odyssey is not made by Team Maniax, but by another team from the 1st Studio of Atlus (and originally by Lancarse). Team Maniax is also a part of that 1st Studio, but from what we know the members of Team Maniax worked only on the following games :
- Shin Megami Tensei III - Nocturne Maniax
- Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha Vs The Soulless Army
- Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha Vs King Abaddon
- Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (only some members for the creative part of the game, all the programming was carried out by Lancarse)
- Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse
- Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey Redux
And they are without a doubt the ones working on SMT HD Project right now.
snow in jamaica
Member
Neither of those are as heinous as pedophilic otaku bait!
Holy shit! Some how I didn't know Keita Amemiya did designs for SMT IV. I really have to play that now.
So I think I mentioned earlier in here I'm playing Persona 3 mostly for the first time (I played a few years ago, but didn't get incredibly far in and stopped for some reason).
I'm in the third block of Tartarus now, after the third Arcana shadow.
I like this game, but man there is some annoying shit here. First of all...getting a romantic relationship locks you out of ALL Social Links with female characters? No platonic relationships like in P5? I got really high with track manager girl...and now I'm kind of screwed because I wanted to see more of the online game social link.
Second, the AI is dumb af sometimes. Mitsuru with Marin Karin, watching that shit miss time after time after time. Although it was funny one time when I was fighting a Guardian, and she kept using it, and eventually it just randomly worked! I also found it kind of annoying that it took 2-3 bosses into the game for the AI to learn that you have to knock down all the enemies, not keep using the same weakness-exploiting skill on one.
I like the idea of the one singular dungeon like Tartarus, although I like the sort of unexpected mini dungeons coming up. I thought the love hotel one was pretty decent, although I wasn't expecting two bosses there.
I'm in the third block of Tartarus now, after the third Arcana shadow.
I like this game, but man there is some annoying shit here. First of all...getting a romantic relationship locks you out of ALL Social Links with female characters? No platonic relationships like in P5? I got really high with track manager girl...and now I'm kind of screwed because I wanted to see more of the online game social link.
Second, the AI is dumb af sometimes. Mitsuru with Marin Karin, watching that shit miss time after time after time. Although it was funny one time when I was fighting a Guardian, and she kept using it, and eventually it just randomly worked! I also found it kind of annoying that it took 2-3 bosses into the game for the AI to learn that you have to knock down all the enemies, not keep using the same weakness-exploiting skill on one.
I like the idea of the one singular dungeon like Tartarus, although I like the sort of unexpected mini dungeons coming up. I thought the love hotel one was pretty decent, although I wasn't expecting two bosses there.
Yeah, the fact that you are forced to be in a romantic relationship with most of the female social links is a pain.
It doesn't completely lock you out of others though, you just have to max out that social link before moving onto the others.
I think they only start to get jealous around level 5/6, too...
It doesn't completely lock you out of others though, you just have to max out that social link before moving onto the others.
I think they only start to get jealous around level 5/6, too...
Wait, so can I max the others after I max one, or will that reverse them all?
snow in jamaica
Member
It's so gross and played a big part in making boy-P3 unplayable for me. By their own admission, Hashino and Soejima couldn't imagine friendship between a boy and girl.
Contextual issues aside, I actually think some of them are pretty cool-looking!
Contextual issues aside, I actually think some of them are pretty cool-looking!
I thought these design are from guest artist ? And Medusa is redrawn by Doi for Apocalypse (which looks good and much better).
Anyone knows which new demons from SMTIV/A drawn by Doi ?
MudoSkills
Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
They were from a guest artist, but they still count since we were talking about worst demon designs in the series.
Doi's Medusa in Apocalypse was MUCH better.
If any of the guest artist designs should come back though...Minotaur. That one was fucking great.
Yesssssssss
snow in jamaica
Member
It's better than the derpy head of the SMTIV one. That said I think Dota 2 has the best interpretation of Medusa in video games.
I'm excited to play the new Jack Bros sidescroller thing after work. How long is it?
MudoSkills
Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
Hardin was cool - got him to take part in an avatar bet in one of the old Persona community threads, on P5 launching in 2015. Took his punishment avatar like a champ.
Yeah, Hardin was great. Really miss him being on Atlus USA PR, but Jacob has also been great thus far. Responds to questions on Twitter pretty frequently.
NeonZ
Member
Doi didn't design any of SMTIV's demons, only the human characters. Meanwhile, all new SMTIVA demons are by Doi, and returning new demons from IV in IVA are all redrawn by Doi, although still generally following their IV designs.
snow in jamaica
Member
I like that she looks a little monstrous!
Playing Synchronicity Prologue made me think of this, but this was another localization thing I was always curious about. In every Japanese SMT game, when there is Romanji, I always see demons as "devils". Using the built in translate on Twitter for any if Atlus Japan's or the MegaTen Twitter, "demons" is "devils". Why is this?
My theory on it is that it comes down to a culture and meaning thing. In English, "devil" generally refers to Satan, or a red dude in hell with a pitchfork. He's just one guy, not multiple things. In Japan, is "devil" just used in the context we use "demons"?
If this is the case, it's interesting how Atlus USA chose to localize some titles in the series.
When Raidou 1 came out, they kind of committed themselves to using "Devil Summoner" in English instead of "Demon Summoner", so I am guessing that is why it stayed that way for Raidou 2 and Soul Hackers. I guess they didn't want to "reboot" like they did going from "Revelations" to Shin Megami Tensei.
Digital Devil Saga honestly just sounds better phonetically than "Digital Demon Saga", I can't quite put my finger on why.
Anyone have any insight based in fact though? This is all just guessing, lol.
My theory on it is that it comes down to a culture and meaning thing. In English, "devil" generally refers to Satan, or a red dude in hell with a pitchfork. He's just one guy, not multiple things. In Japan, is "devil" just used in the context we use "demons"?
If this is the case, it's interesting how Atlus USA chose to localize some titles in the series.
When Raidou 1 came out, they kind of committed themselves to using "Devil Summoner" in English instead of "Demon Summoner", so I am guessing that is why it stayed that way for Raidou 2 and Soul Hackers. I guess they didn't want to "reboot" like they did going from "Revelations" to Shin Megami Tensei.
Digital Devil Saga honestly just sounds better phonetically than "Digital Demon Saga", I can't quite put my finger on why.
Anyone have any insight based in fact though? This is all just guessing, lol.
I'm completely ignorant about this, but it'd explain why game titles always use Devil instead of Demon. Although I recall seeing Demon, as in the english word, being used in japanese promotional stuff... Most recently I remember some japanese SJ Redux trailers with the words DEEP DEMON EXPERIENCE (lol) in it, so maybe they're interchangeable?
Ah I see, I know that Doi redrawn some of the returning new Demons in SMTIV4, but I didn't know he only design the characters.
I might have weird taste, but I kinda like some of SMTIV and SMTIVA design. I like Minotaur, the Tokusatsu (I love Michizane and Yamato Takeru !), Khrisna and Odin. Lilith, the Archangel and Medusa (thought the Doi redrawn version is much better) are a no no though.
I really doubt they will bother updating the game seeing how it bombed in iOS. I don't think they will spend time/resources updating the game for a few people who bought the game.
If there's one thing Persona 3 needs in a potential remake over ANYTHING else, is to make the battle UI like Persona 5's.
Just think of the speed of doing basic actions in P3 vs P5. Let's say you want to switch Persona's and use Agi:
In P3, you start on Attack, so if I'm not mistaken that's 4 times you have to press up, then hit X, then if you want to see which Persona has Agi, you have to hit Square, then you can use R1/L1 to scroll through your Personas, choose one, then go back to Spells and use Agi.
P5, hit Triangle, R1, R1/L1 to cycle through your Personas, X, choose spell. That simple, and it's super quick.
I think it's most noticeable when you're fighting against one stronger enemy with an elemental weakness, and you have a Persona to exploit that, as well as at least one other party member that can. In Persona 3, it's so slow to cast the spell, then you have to wait a few seconds before the dialog pops up for the all out attack.
In Persona 5 it's spell, they're knocked down, very brief animation of Joker pointing his gun at them, hit Triangle for All out, unless you want to negotiate or back off. I remember a handful of miniboss battles in P5 like that, where I was quickly doing All Out attacks where I could get a few off in the amount of time it would have taken to do one in P3 or P4.
Also SMT Switch should take notes from Persona 5 on battle UI stuff. It doesn't have to be all stylized like P5's, but make it fast like it.
Just think of the speed of doing basic actions in P3 vs P5. Let's say you want to switch Persona's and use Agi:
In P3, you start on Attack, so if I'm not mistaken that's 4 times you have to press up, then hit X, then if you want to see which Persona has Agi, you have to hit Square, then you can use R1/L1 to scroll through your Personas, choose one, then go back to Spells and use Agi.
P5, hit Triangle, R1, R1/L1 to cycle through your Personas, X, choose spell. That simple, and it's super quick.
I think it's most noticeable when you're fighting against one stronger enemy with an elemental weakness, and you have a Persona to exploit that, as well as at least one other party member that can. In Persona 3, it's so slow to cast the spell, then you have to wait a few seconds before the dialog pops up for the all out attack.
In Persona 5 it's spell, they're knocked down, very brief animation of Joker pointing his gun at them, hit Triangle for All out, unless you want to negotiate or back off. I remember a handful of miniboss battles in P5 like that, where I was quickly doing All Out attacks where I could get a few off in the amount of time it would have taken to do one in P3 or P4.
Also SMT Switch should take notes from Persona 5 on battle UI stuff. It doesn't have to be all stylized like P5's, but make it fast like it.
Actually I wouldn't like this. Persona 5 seems fast, but I prefer what the Maniax team did for Apocalypse. Of course I have to guess the presentation has some impact (3D battles > 2D battles)
I was really talking in regards to 3D battles, as Apocalypse is still 2D. SMTIV and Apocalypse both had great UIs as well, and were quite quick.
Continuing on in my Persona 3 playthrough, I got Aigis and beat the guardian.
That beach trip was...uncomfortable to say the least.
"Operation Babe Hunt" was cringey enough as it already was, but then they threw transphobia in there?!?! wtf Atlus you're better than this.
Although they clearly learned nothing for P5 because that had that whole "eww gays" beach thing.
That beach trip was...uncomfortable to say the least.
"Operation Babe Hunt" was cringey enough as it already was, but then they threw transphobia in there?!?! wtf Atlus you're better than this.
Although they clearly learned nothing for P5 because that had that whole "eww gays" beach thing.
I don't see how having commands tied to buttons wouldn't be faster than scrolling through menus when you account for the differences in presentation. Apocalypse would be even faster if it used a similar setup. Then again I also never felt like P5's battles were that much longer than Apocalypse's (except for boss fights and some annoying encounters with no weaknesses, which is more of a balancing "issue" than presentation, and Apocalypse had its fair share of annoyingly long random battles too, a particular one being even worse than any of P5's most egregious cases). That's specially true when you can just tap R1 and automatically change to the optimal Persona and skill you need to use against enemies you've already fought, and you can confirm your action before the menu/prompt even shows up. It's snappy as hell.
Just make the buffs a little faster.
Shin Megami Tensei 25th Anniversary Concert Live -Chaos Side-
(SMT Switch highly likely to be shown at this)
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv307323309
(SMT Switch highly likely to be shown at this)
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv307323309
I guess Japanese people see the word "devil" as we see "demon" indeed.
The origin of the series is the novel from Aya Nishitani, that is called "Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei" after all.
Also, keep in mind that all the "demons" of MegaTen are not really demons. Lots of them are actually gods (Loki, Odin, Shiva, Zeus, Amaterasu, etc.). They called them demons because they wanted to emphasize the Christian religious monopoly. When a country conquers another, the gods of the vanquished become demons in the eyes of the conqueror. Since Christianism has destroyed and replaced countless polytheistic religions, the gods can be called demons. That's at least an explanation given by both Nishitani, Okada and Kaneko in some interviews.
You can find all the demons illustrations he did for SMT IV Apocalypse here :
http://eirikrjs.blogspot.fr/2016/08/apocalypse-artbook.html
He didn't draw any demon for SMT IV though, only characters.
Eolz
Member
Shin Megami Tensei 25th Anniversary Concert Live -Chaos Side-
(SMT Switch highly likely to be shown at this)
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv307323309
A thread will be made, right? Deserves it, both for the music and the possible announcements
Yeah, I can make one. I will make it before the event sometime, as I probably won't be awake when it happens.A thread will be made, right? Deserves it, both for the music and the possible announcements
amodelmerol
Member
Trailer reactions?
enoki
Member
Apparently you can only send one PM every 10 minutes, so this is gonna take a bit. I just sent one, so bear with me, I will get all of you that asked.
Really excited for it, got Nocturne vibes. We are discussing it over on Discord. I'll get you an invite via PM as soon as I can.
Really excited for it, got Nocturne vibes. We are discussing it over on Discord. I'll get you an invite via PM as soon as I can.
Thank you so much.
RainbowIslands
Member
Can I join the list to get one too, Hylian7? Thanks!
Yes, absolutely. I should be able to get them all out within an hour or so.
If you have me on Steam or somewhere else, contact me there and I can send you one.
I'm using single use invites because I don't want a voat invasion.
Edit: I have some volunteers willing to help me get the PMs out there faster, so you might see invites from others.
E_Darkness
Member
I've posted like 3 times in this thread! But wouldn't mind an invite as well.