Should Bethesda follow the Oblivion Remastered route for TES VI? (Creation Engine + Unreal Engine 5 Layer)
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Why did you ask then? Was I supposed to agree with you?Yeah that's what I'm thinking too.
LordCBH
Member
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Oh no, you can completely disagree, but with real arguments.
"asset flip (wtf dude really?)" or "AI generated NPC's" doesn't make any sense. "looks like turds"? I don't know what gamers like you are expecting anymore.
I hope your post doesn't derail the thread as it's not meant to be a review of this Remaster.
kevboard
Member
I am always against the use of UE5, no matter what. so no.
also the main issues with the Creation engine aren't the visuals. the engine was the fault that Starfield had to be segmented into different areas with loading screens. this would still be the case if you slap UE5's on top of it
also the main issues with the Creation engine aren't the visuals. the engine was the fault that Starfield had to be segmented into different areas with loading screens. this would still be the case if you slap UE5's on top of it
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Unknown Soldier
Member
The issue with stacking one engine on top of another is that you're forced to run 2 engines at once, it's incredibly kludgey and hard to manage or develop with
When you're just fudging a new graphics layer onto an old game, like Diablo II Resurrected or Oblivion Remastered, it's probably OK because you're not developing a whole game, you're just making a graphics overlay
But developing an entirely new game with this approach is a death march, trying to support 2 engines at once and make a whole new game is an absolutely terrible idea
When you're just fudging a new graphics layer onto an old game, like Diablo II Resurrected or Oblivion Remastered, it's probably OK because you're not developing a whole game, you're just making a graphics overlay
But developing an entirely new game with this approach is a death march, trying to support 2 engines at once and make a whole new game is an absolutely terrible idea
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Hawk The Slayer
Member
Only if they improve the engine and get a official creation kit just like all their big single main Elder Scrolls and Fallout games before starting from 3. Which it should because ESVI is going to be their biggest game ever with the highest budget and they've been doing creation kit which is a big part of their games since Morrowind.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I'm dead serious. They look awful.
It's an ugly game that visually clashes thanks to that POS engine that is UE5. The difference here is we have the original as a reference and the transition wasn't good at all. I said AI-generated because the NPCs look NOTHING like the original. They're completely different. You'd think they'd go over them and upgrade them to look more realistic, but they might as well be different characters.
They also said in the presentation that they used some kind of system for facial expressions that translate across the different races, therefore, the lip syncing or facial expressions don't need to be done separately for beast races like Argonians. The result of course is jarring facial expressions that look completely off like the one posted above. I've run across many NPCs and just went "wtf" when they started talking.
I'm not even trolling. I think the game looks like junk. It's technically impressive, but poorly put together and I hope they ditch UE5 because it's shit and stifles creativity. I know they won't.
Performance is also crap.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
If you say soI'm dead serious. They look awful.
It's an ugly game that visually clashes thanks to that POS engine that is UE5. The difference here is we have the original as a reference and the transition wasn't good at all. I said AI-generated because the NPCs look NOTHING like the original. They're completely different. You'd think they'd go over them and upgrade them to look more realistic, but they might as well be different characters.
They also said in the presentation that they used some kind of system for facial expressions that translate across the different races, therefore, the lip syncing or facial expressions don't need to be done separately for beast races like Argonians. The result of course is jarring facial expressions that look completely off like the one posted above. I've run across many NPCs and just went "wtf" when they started talking.
I'm not even trolling. I think the game looks like junk. It's technically impressive, but poorly put together and I hope they ditch UE5 because it's shit and stifles creativity. I know they won't.
Performance is also crap.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, I do. I think Oblivion is still a pretty game despite its outdated look. The one thing that is ugly are the NPCs and they didn't fix that here. They look horrible but more technically advanced. It's one area I was hoping they'd improve upon.If you say so
vaibhavpisal
Member
Creation Engine only.
Need different engines instead of same thing everywhere.
Need different engines instead of same thing everywhere.
Mister Wolf
Member
Drop the Creation Engine.
Comandr
Member
Post reads disingenuous. I can tell you at a glance that this screen was taken without hardware lumen on which changes the way light applies to npcs and shades them far more naturally.I'm dead serious. They look awful.
Plays at low settings.
Complains game looks bad.
Fact of the matter is, oblivion remaster keeps creating moments where I stop and look around and admire how good the game looks. Npcs look great, look genuinely attractive compared to the monstrous originals.
I do genuinely want them to layer UE5 on top of other games. UE5, love it or hate it, offers a TON of customization options tweaking the engine.ini, making it very scalable to all types of systems.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This isn't low settings. I'm talking about the ugly-ass character with the shiny face. Hardware Lumen or not changes nothing. He'd still be an uncanny ugly piece of shit.Post reads disingenuous. I can tell you at a glance that this screen was taken without hardware lumen on which changes the way light applies to npcs and shades them far more naturally.
Plays at low settings.
Complains game looks bad.
Comandr
Member
Idk what to tell you. It's raining in that scene. His face is wet. I think the game looks great, so do a lot of other people, but we all know what opinions are like huh?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Has nothing to do with the rain. His face still shines even when you reach the chapel and he's inside.
I think the game certainly has technical merits, but I don't know how you do a remaster with NPCs this ugly. They look frightening instead of just goofy now.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Creation Engine 2 cause that would be better than just mixing both engines. And the Creation Engine 2 would allow it's most important post game feature to work better which is the Creation Kit. Either that or go full Unreal Engine 5 but make the Creation Kit work well with it. Skyrim has over 9 billion mod downloads and I'll want to see Elder Scrolls VI eventually reaching this amount or even higher.
demented waffle
Gold Member
Have to do the IDK option. The Gamebryo engine does some good things with the item thing. OTOH, is it worth keeping that arrow stuck there for months? lol
There's still gonna be some loading screens, regardless.
There's still gonna be some loading screens, regardless.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I couldn't think of a worse combination than UE5 + Creation Engine.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I don't mind this dual-engine wizardry if it means keeping the usual TES world reactivity and modability.
Just please don't use UE5 unless you put in a lot of optimization. Oblivion runs like ass considering how it looks and more so when compared to other open world games like Kingdom Come 2.
Just please don't use UE5 unless you put in a lot of optimization. Oblivion runs like ass considering how it looks and more so when compared to other open world games like Kingdom Come 2.
Sleepwalker
Member
I downloaded the oblivion remake, booted it up and started creating my character then the game crashed.
So yeah sure.
So yeah sure.
Mister Wolf
Member
Not sure how the latest Creation Engine stack up, difficult to compare Oblivion Remastered to Starfield.
But if this is the visual upgrade we can get for older remasters while still having the simulated worlds and interactivity, then at minimum they should remaster Skyrim too.
Would love a Remake of Fallout New Vegas and it's expansions. Fuck remaking Fallout 3.
Fess
Member
Never played New Vegas but I've heard good things about it. Does it hold up gameplaywise so a visual-only update would be enough?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Creation engine only, please. We've seen time and again that Unreal Engine 5 isn't up to the task, especially in an open-world game. I don't think the stuttering or issues with things like nanite are news to anyone at this point, and considering that games still ship with those things busted after years of complaints... yeah. Keep away.
Bespoke engines, in general, are preferable.
Bespoke engines, in general, are preferable.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
yea, specially if you stick to VATS.
They could always try to slap on the shooting from Fallout 4 I guess.
sertopico
Member
For the love of God, no. The Gamebryo needs to disappear and be buried like a cursed artifact. It's archaic to say the least, it cannot manage more than a certain number of npcs per cell or it breaks, ai routines are basic, the pathfinding is janky, the quest scripts break easily... From a modern point of view it's hell.
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PSYGN
Member
I think if you're a small studio or making a remaster, sure, why not.
I'm not a game dev so I can only make parallels with other dev work, but the problem with dependencies often happens when you continue working on your own custom engine or engine plugin that depends on another complex tech outside of your hands (UE5). What often happens is that your engine becomes really complex and might require private API and patches to make ends meet. Then you have UE6 come out and now you have to spend time rewiring everything and finding solutions to something that may no longer exist in the engine. It's my guess as to why you have devs stuck on older versions of UE.
Is UE5 the additional layer on top of Creation Engine or the other way around?
I'm not a game dev so I can only make parallels with other dev work, but the problem with dependencies often happens when you continue working on your own custom engine or engine plugin that depends on another complex tech outside of your hands (UE5). What often happens is that your engine becomes really complex and might require private API and patches to make ends meet. Then you have UE6 come out and now you have to spend time rewiring everything and finding solutions to something that may no longer exist in the engine. It's my guess as to why you have devs stuck on older versions of UE.
Is UE5 the additional layer on top of Creation Engine or the other way around?
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Fess
Member
Avowed has been super stable for me, basically not dropping a frame when playing on a non-vrr TV where any drop is usually easily spotted.
So, it CAN be done. But Bethesda's games have a ton more stuff going on with npcs and items and physics and interactivity etc, might be trickier for them to get things as stable I guess. I definitely want them to try, if they can't reach the same fidelity in their own engine. It would be a letdown if TESVI ends up looking worse than their 20 year old remaster.
Fess
Member
Difficult to pinpoint what's top and bottom but in the unveil stream they explained it as Creation Engine being the brain and Unreal Engine 5 being the body. Sounds like the more data oriented game logics and world and npc simulations and behaviors and so on comes through oldschool CE, while the 3D focused visual goals they set out are achieved through UE5. Weird mix tbh, but it seems to work.
Mister Wolf
Member
It's in need of some updating to the shooting but that shouldn't be a problem for a competent developer.
Fess
Member
To be honest, the draw distance in Indy was horrible, I can't see how it would work for a Bethesda RPG.
New Doom game looks quite vast. We shall see.
