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[CaptainABAB]

But yes, college SHOULD BE FREE. I got into film school at NYU and didn't go because of the expensive out of state tuition, and because I didn't want to go into debt in the sum of tens of thousands of dollars just to get an undergraduate degree.

And if NYU was free, you wouldn't have even been accepted. All in-state residents would have been given first choice ahead of you (considering their parents paid for it).

 

[Nerevar]

from my experience studying abroad in Australia, free (or virtually free) education greatly affects how people treat the collegiate experience. I know I have never worked as little in my life than when I was there - and it was not uncommon for people to extend their time in college for many years beyond the standard "4-year" education.

 

[Triumph]

from my experience studying abroad in Australia, free (or virtually free) education greatly affects how people treat the collegiate experience. I know I have never worked as little in my life than when I was there - and it was not uncommon for people to extend their time in college for many years beyond the standard "4-year" education.

That's GREAT!

 

[Nerevar]

That's GREAT!

? I was pointing out a flaw in the "free college" menatilty, which was the point of discussion in this thread, that I observed in another country. It's not a fucking scientific study, but at least it's a positive contribution. What deserved a sardonic reply like that?

 

[peedi]

Free? Nothing's free. We'd just be paying it back in the form of overly-high taxes. That, or the quality of universities would drop dramatically.

I don't want to pay for Bush's stormtroopers in Iraq. Are you just as opposed to forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for military operations they object to?

Anyway, higher education should be free to all those with a desire to pursue one.

 

[belgurdo]

From what I've observed, college pretty much IS an extension of high school, except the people are quieter and it's costing me $5000 every year to attend. And you're still not guaranteed a job after you get your degree. Might as well raise taxes and make it free

 

[peedi]

What I'm saying is that my look at the figures wasn't dumb at all. The 'smaller yet still big pie' that you're talking about as the American military expenditures isn't as big as you're making it out to be. It's 3.3% of the GDP. The economic figures would not work out. $450 billion a year, the complete estimated military spending, maybe if completely put into the education system, would be enough to fix it all. That's a big maybe. We're talking about the average state getting roughly 10 billion a year to support all their educational institutions, from preschool to grad school. Now, as thin as that's spread now, that is still HEAVILY supplemented by local taxes in various districts around the country to keep the schools working, counted completely from a different source than the ~$9Billion.

To save a lot of math, and a lot of hot air, the simple point that I'm going to make is this: universal higher education would create more problems than it'd cause. Taxes have to be hiked, and most people don't have them to begin with. It'd create incredible parity for jobs in an already unsubstantial job market (for the most part.) So instead of HELPING the economy, you'll be giving more people more education through higher taxes which you won't be able to sustain because there aren't enough higher education jobs right now. Then, even if you did have the jobs, you're neglecting the fact that all businesses, having such a huge market of employees, would not be required to pay the employees what we're used to now, unless you introduce new legislation (which is a whole different mess).

And this is also ignoring all the haughty, capitalist, conservative bullshit about how having class warfare stimulates poor people to try harder at life. Believe me-- I'm a college student now, and I'm going to be leaving university roughly $50,000 in debt, unless I go to graduate school or anything else. You don't have to preach to me about how great universally paid education would be. But you gotta check all angles on things like this.

Not to mention the fact that the military budget would be cut. God knows we don't need to be invading anyone right now. But if you cut the budget too much, while revolutionizing your society in vast amounts (creating more goods, tangible and intangible), you're only leaving yourself open to attack by another power who wants to take by force what we work for. Sure, we may be beyond that whole 'international domination' thing, but if we're not then we could be in a world of trouble.

And don't even get me started on the terrorism security problems relating to a dropped military budget. Just look at Russia for a worst-case scenario (gangs seizing nuclear warheads to sell on the black market).

Why would taxes have to be hiked? Look at our budget. Subtract exorbitant military expenditures and you have more than enough to subsidize the education of those pursuing a college degree.

 

[Diablos]

If all schools were free then they'd all have to conform to the same standards, which would be bad. I mean, if EVERYONE can go to Notre Dame, a lot of happy people will get in, but for every person that did, there's probably like 10 or 15 people that won't.

Like I said, it would be like a national community college, heh.

 

[etiolate]

I would take out highschool altogether, extend gradeschool further on and have a funded system equal to the higher end community colleges in the country. Huzzah! So K-15/16 and then a very open college system that is not ivy league, but still full of good professors. Also, this isn't a simple fix. You'd have to rehash public education and amp it up minus the social systems part that sucks the life out of American highschools. Debeautify History in public education, increase Humanities and Arts.

free college = weeeeeeeeeeee! That is not realistic or simple.

BUT

Rehauling education has been important to me.

Diablo, not all community colleges are the same.

 

[peedi]

If all schools were free then they'd all have to conform to the same standards, which would be bad. I mean, if EVERYONE can go to Notre Dame, a lot of happy people will get in, but for every person that did, there's probably like 10 or 15 people that won't.

Like I said, it would be like a national community college, heh.

Yeah, if one supposed academia were uniform -- which it isn't.

Why would they have to lower their standards? The rigors of higher ed. could definitely be sustained were the financial limitations of higher ed. lifted.

 

[Lathentar]

Yeah, if one supposed academia were uniform -- which it isn't.

Why would they have to lower their standards? The rigors of higher ed. could definitely be sustained were the financial limitations of higher ed. lifted.

If Notre Dame is harder to get into does that justify them getting more money than another public school with lower standards? Schools that are harder to get into usually produce better workers.

 

[pnjtony]

I think the prerequisites should be free...like what you could do at a community college and then to go for a real major you'd have to pay. That'd about cut it in half really. Why spend $164 a credit hour for geometry at a state college or university when you can pay $70 at a community college anyway? Or just make it free till you get to a "real" college.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

I go to a $40,000 world famous university on the East Coast, but luckily I got a full ride :lol. It's pretty weird going to a private school and seeing all these spoiled, rich kids.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

That's nice, I'm glad you contributed.

Personally, I just wish they’d get rid of the retarded “core” class schedule. I am currently a business major, and I have to take an Introduction to Calculus as well as Calc 1 & 2. Anyone know the number of times I am going to need to find the secant of a triangle when I’m working in marketing? Fewer classes would mean a more affordable education. Not quite free, but getting there.

I agree. Anyone who is a marketing major should not have to take a class where you actually have to think..

 

[SpoonyBard]

Wow, I can't believe some of you don't want free education... that's just insane.

 

[Kobun Heat]

As more people become able to pay for private education you'll see less and less kids going to public schools. So actually as the standard of living of Americans goes up I think we'll see the opposite trend -- the high school system will start becoming more like the university system.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I can't believe some of you want higher taxes...

It's not a one-sided issue, dude. Nothing ever is.

Higher crime rates and upkeeping the prison system can be more expensive to society than simply giving poor people free education. This is not an one-sided issue, dude .

 

[psycho_snake]

Anyone would love it if they were free, but I dont think its fair that anyone should go the the college that they want to unless they are clever enough. It would be really unfair if stupid dumbass students got to go to the same college as people who work hard in high school.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Anywone would love it if they were free, but I dont think its fair that anyone should go the the college that they want to unless they are clever enough. It would be really unfair if stupid dumbass students got to go to the same college as people who work hard in high school.

So poor people are stupid and rich people clever? Nice.

 

[psycho_snake]

So poor people are stupid and rich people clever? Nice.

You should learn how to read. I said that it would be great if they were free, but it would be unfair if stupid people were allowed to go to the same colleges as those who worked really hard in HS for it

 

[maharg]

I think you missed his point. What does the cost of going to a school have to do with its entry requirements? The only way that makes sense is if you think people with more money are necessarily more smart than people with less, because money is the only factor under discussion here.

 

[Fresh Prince]

from my experience studying abroad in Australia, free (or virtually free) education greatly affects how people treat the collegiate experience. I know I have never worked as little in my life than when I was there - and it was not uncommon for people to extend their time in college for many years beyond the standard "4-year" education.

Free wtf? We had this virtually free education I did not know about. Shit when was somebody going to tell me this?

It's not 'virtually free'. Only the stupid uni students forget that you have a debt to pay off. Otherwise most of the people I come accross are all to aware that uni isn't free. You pay for books, materials, software, public transport, rent etc anyway. Finishing a 4 year course with a $20,000 debt waiting for you at the end I find personally worrying- even if your supposed to pay it off a little by little.

If the government/univeristies really wanted it's way we'd have rich dumb students taking places of poor smart students. In fact it's already happening, some uni's have a 2nd class (being those students who are not full fee paying) while those who do pay have certain 'priveleges' ala Melbourne University.

 

[psycho_snake]

ok, Imagine that all colleges were free, would my statement make sense? The oringinal maker of the thread asked if it would be better if anyone could go to any college. It would be good if they were all free but there needs to be an entry requirement. It would be bad if someone stupid was allowed to go the same collge as someone who worked really hard in school.

 

[Fresh Prince]

In a sense if you offer college to those people who deserve it, they end up paying higher taxes and give back to the system anyway.

 

[CaptainABAB]

In a sense if you offer college to those people who deserve it, they end up paying higher taxes and give back to the system anyway.

Yeah, we already do - it's called Federal Aid and Scholarships.

 

[ge-man]

I think you missed his point. What does the cost of going to a school have to do with its entry requirements? The only way that makes sense is if you think people with more money are necessarily more smart than people with less, because money is the only factor under discussion here.

Exactly. If anything, I think standards would actually become harder with an increase of applications. Just because most people will be able to attend college, that doesn't mean that schools will automatically have the capacity for all prospective students (this is a huge problem for some institutions already).

As for my personal view, I not sure if free college is really workable in this nation. I like pnjtony's idea of limiting tutition to major requirements, however.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Heh some of you need to ask your parents how much college costed when they were in school. Obviously because far fewer people went to school , but back in the day federal aid paid your tuition in the form of a grant and probably your books. My mom was able to basically go out on her own and go to school because the federal aid was so damn good. Do I think we should pay for free college? Yeah tuition should be paid atleast for public universities, considering college is basically needed to secure most jobs worth your time. The days of manufacturing jobs that could get it done are pretty much over. If I get outta school and land a job i have no problem paying for even more people to have it easier than me, how could you not, we need more educated people not less because they cant afford to continue their growth.

Should the rich pay more? fuck yeah, they get rich off the work and time of others, TIME they cant give back. And they enjoy a lifestyle they cant just give away, so yes they do owe a debt to society , if society didnt buy their product, or provide the talent to make a person successful they wouldnt be in their position. Now if bill gates coded/tested/and marketed windows/dos on his own nevermind. If Ford, Gm, Toyota, Mitsubishi etc, all made their corporations today by the work of a small few and not the collective effort of millions in the workforce over the years nevermind. Otherwise pay up.

 

[Outcast2004]

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Only thing i have to say is you have a razor sharp sense of irony....


Someone cue up the cartoon of the pot and the kettle.

 

[lordmrw]

No, it shouldn't be free. But god damn, it should really cost less. Tuition is really killing me man.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Who cares if a college degree becomes marginalized? If college was free, you could go for anything you wanted. Don't like your job? Fine, go ahead and pursue a new major. The end result is that everyone gets smarter, since college level classes should still keep their level of difficulty. It's not like just anyone can get through college anyway. It would still require a modicum of intelligence to graduate, and at least then we wouldn't be able to scapegoat the system as the problem anymore. If anyone can get a college degree, it would put more of the onus on the individual. Meh, my mind's not working so good right now. I hope that made sense. PEACE.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I agree. Anyone who is a marketing major should not have to take a class where you actually have to think..

ok, I think I deserved that. :lol

 

[Mr. Blonde]

People are missing the point. College in the US is free.....if you're smart and work hard in high school, and are ok with going to a public in-state school. I think this system works out great. In my state, Tennessee, we have a lottery that pays for scholarships. So, in essence, it diverts money from the stupid people to smart young people to educate them and improve our society.

A system of college being free for everyone, like high school, would be horrible. Should we have alternative colleges too like we do in high school? All this system would do is push everything down a level(ie:make a current college degree worth what a current high school degree is a current masters worth what a current college degree is)and I for one am not in favor in having to work more for the same qualifications.

 

[kevm3]

No, but remove that mandatory prerequisites bulllshit. Why do I need to take two government and two history? I took that shit in high school and didn't remember too much of anything, and I won't after I get done with my government course this year. And no, I don't want to learn just for the sake of learning. Fuck that. Just let me get to the main course!

 

[Star Power]

I think the fact that you're paying thousands of dollars is incentive to do well.

Man.. I can't wait to go to college. HS is really getting on my last nerve.. just a year and some odd months left...

 

[Dark Kinght Bunny]

HAHAHA!!!

sucks to be yuh'all!, the joys of being legally blind, free college. hah!