Support NeoGAF

[Instigator]

... on itself? Never mind if we could, just focus on if we should.

According to the middle series projections from the U.S. Census Bureau, the immigrants arriving after 1990 and their offspring are expected to contribute two-thirds of the population growth in the U.S. between 2000 and 2050, when the total population of the U.S. will increase from 281 million to 404 million.

http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/immigration/immigration.html

Population growth is something happening in almost all regions of the globe. The rates may be dropping in many areas, but the growth still goes on. Most attempts of population control are in the third world, where some countries are severely overcrowded with limited ressources. There's obviously an urgency to prevent making a situation worse than it could be.

But I guess my argument is that an extra 100+ million in the US is a bigger deal than the same amount in Africa or South America. An extra 100 million heavy consumers is a much heavier burden on the world's ressources, in terms of waste produced or living space inside the US (at the heavy expense of wildlife or agricultural land) than that kind of increase in the Third World. Driving in some parts of the US can be already be a sombering experience for the more ecologically-sound people, you just see neverending surburds, a shameful tribute to wasteful consumption.

I could bring up more issues but let's if this topic take and where it will go.

 

[Ferrio]

No.

 

[Instigator]

I'm sure you can still have your burgers and French fries in either case, Ferrio.

 

[Ferrio]

Your shining wit highlights my day.

Anyways, the effort in organizing such a law would be a nightmare and costly. Majority of the country pushing for abortion laws, so what happens if someone gets pregnant?

Should be spending the time and energy pushing education, improving inner city ect.

 

[goodcow]

By the time we manage to totally rape and pillage Earth I'll probably be dead, so this doesn't really affect me.

 

[Tabris]

Kinda funny, cause Canada needs the exact opposite.

 

[Ferrio]

Kinda funny, cause Canada needs the exact opposite.

As does Japan. Maybe we should do some comparisons of crime rates, and education levels. Hit the stem of the problem instead.

 

[iapetus]

By the time we manage to totally rape and pillage Earth I'll probably be dead, so this doesn't really affect me.

"Hey, that sounds like an interesting challenge!"

 

[ToxicAdam]

As people become more affluent, they have less children. So, population control is already in effect (as long as our economy stays as strong).

 

[Scrow]

yeah, there's enough of you lot already..

 

[Ferrio]

As people become more affluent, they have less children. So, population control is already in effect (as long as our economy stays as strong).

But stays strong for who? That's how it SHOULD work, but with the huge distinctions between income classes... it doesn't.

 

[MC Safety]

As people become more affluent, they have less children. So, population control is already in effect (as long as our economy stays as strong).

If you read the quote by the original poster, it says most of the population growth will be spurred by immigrants and their offspring.

The increased population will largely be absorbed by the cities, especially the coastal ones.

 

[goodcow]

If you read the quote by the original poster, it says most of the population growth will be spurred by immigrants and their offspring.

The increased population will largely be absorbed by the cities, especially the coastal ones.

But how?

The costal cities already have very high rents, rents which low-working class immigrants can't afford.

 

[Zaptruder]

Will we end up matrixing a good portion of the population by the end of this century?

 

[MC Safety]

But how?

The costal cities already have very high rents, rents which low-working class immigrants can't afford.

Well, it seems obvious that despite your assertion, coastal cities such as New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, etc., all have high immigrant populations. I don't deny there are high rents in most of these cities, but the historical truth is that population centers always have specific areas designed to absorb immigrants.

 

[ToxicAdam]

So, its in the world's best interest that we don't allow immigrants inside our borders? Is that what we are saying here? Seems like a paradox.

 

[Boogie]

After watching Maury the last couple of mornings: Yes, they definitely should.

 

[sc0la]

meh, the people you wouldn't want spawning their baby hordes would be the ones to skirt controls anyway. Net gain = 0

case in point the program TLC ran recently titled "14 kids.. And pregnant again!" sadly I could not find a link to this show. It was like wwatching a fantastic trainwreck

EDIT: catch it next week!
http://health.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=0&cpi=107283&gid=0&channel=DHC

14 Children and Pregnant Again!

The Duggars are letting God dictate how many children they have and, with nine boys, five girls, and one on the way, Jim Bob and Michelle feel blessed many times over! Find out how the Duggars coordinate a household that would challenge any manager.

edit 2: the best part is that all of Jim-Bob Duggar's 15 children have names that start with the letter J. so they had to dig deep into shit like Jeddidiah to work it all out

 

[Fatghost]

Looking at the damage China's strict population control is causing, I'd say it's probably a bad idea to try to do something like that.

 

[BlackSalad]

If anything it should be the opposite, the US was built on immigration, no reason to stop now. It creates much needed competition in the workforce

 

[Almighty_Chocobo]

If you think people are pissed at how the war is going in Iraq, how pissed do you think they'd be if they passed laws on population control?
Securing the border has been a hot issue that the government has been ignoring for many a year, and if they passed laws about population control before securing the border, you'd see shit hit the fan.

 

[Instigator]

Never mind if we could, just focus on if we should.

*whistles*

 

[NWO]

nvm

 

[Dilbert]

Overpopulation is a GLOBAL concern, and arguably THE global concern since it is at the root of so many other problems.

However, phrasing the question as, "should the United States adopt population control?" is not going to end well.

 

[milanbaros]

The US was founded on immigration and should continue to be for the forseeable future. Well developed countries are in the best position to absorb immigrants into society because of the lack of unskilled workers.

 

[Hitokage]

One thing I don't understand is why Europe and Japan are freaking out over having their population growth rate slip into negative. Sure it means short-term pain, but over the long term it means a more sustainable society.

 

[akascream]

Didn't you guys see that planet in Star Wars that is one big city? We've got a lot of work to do!

 

[Boogie]

One thing I don't understand is why Europe and Japan are freaking out over having their population growth rate slip into negative. Sure it means short-term pain, but over the long term it means a more sustainable society.

Maybe they're worried about the possible effect on their economic growth?

 

[Hitokage]

Maybe they're worried about the possible effect on their economic growth?

As opposed to the effect of outstripping environmental resources? It's just shortsighted. Economies need to drop the Adam Smithian idea of a limitless resource base and unending growth.

 

[Boogie]

As opposed to the effect of outstripping environmental resources? It's just shortsighted.

Well, yeah, but since when have governments been farsighted?

 

[Hitokage]

Well, yeah, but since when have governments been farsighted?

Heh, I'm just foolishly optimistic that some would realize that a lot of work is already done for them.

 

[Instigator]

One thing I don't understand is why Europe and Japan are freaking out over having their population growth rate slip into negative. Sure it means short-term pain, but over the long term it means a more sustainable society.

They just need to remember. Europe was overpopulated. They felt it before. Many times.

 

[DarienA]

"Hey, that sounds like an interesting challenge!"

:lol :lol

In a nutshell... no.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Definitely yes.

There are enough "po' folk" out there getting a government subsidy on rent, food, and such. The last thing these people need to do is just lay around being Bastard Factories.

I'm not in a luxurious income bracket myself, but I do what I can to make intelligent decisions about my lifestyle. The government should intervene to discourage these other idiots from creating a social burden.

My negative opinion is also aided by the local politicians selling out my neighborhood to Section 8 losers who bring with them nothing but crime, drugs, and prostitution. Ten years ago, this was a nice place to live. Not a paradise, or affluent area; but now you feel safer exercising the new Concealed Carry laws.

Let's get the sterilization clinics up and running.

 

[Phoenix]

As does Japan. Maybe we should do some comparisons of crime rates, and education levels. Hit the stem of the problem instead.

No what we need to do is send American studs to these countries (particularly Japan) so they can score around the clock and repopulate those "dangerously underpopulated" countries.

 

[Hitokage]

I know you're joking, but I can't help thinking that anyone who says Japan is dangerously underpopulated is a complete idiot.

 

[Willco]

Population growth in urban areas is reaching problematic proportions, but the country as a whole doesn't need strict population control.

Shit, everyone lives in the same ten fucking states. They're are forty left.

 

[teh_pwn]

Stop illegal immigration. It's not about racism at all. It's about ensuring that those that pay for government services are the ones to get the benefits. We're handing out free rides here. America is not the land of free rides, but about opportunity.

My impression is that we don't have a population growth problem. The immigration does (and it looks like the article hits at that).

 

[Hitokage]

Shit, everyone lives in the same ten fucking states. They're are forty left.

Yeah, but who wants to live in Idaho, Wyoming, or South Dakota?

 

[Willco]

Yeah, but who wants to live in Idaho, Wyoming, or South Dakota?

Everyone! ... Once they get broadband, cable TV and crap like that. I mean, the United States economy is now services-based, so there's no reason why everyone should crowd coast cities.

 

[Phoenix]

Everyone! ... Once they get broadband, cable TV and crap like that. I mean, the United States economy is now services-based, so there's no reason why everyone should crowd coast cities.

Unless you like cheap(er) seafood.... Atlanta is too far from the coast IMO...

 

[Nerevar]

Unless you like cheap(er) seafood.... Atlanta is too far from the coast IMO...

seriously. I <3 Boston.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Kinda funny, cause Canada needs the exact opposite.

We've got plenty of East Indians and Asians coming in. White Canadian people, your days are numbered. Going by the estimates the minorities in Canada will be the majority in 10 years.

WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW!?

 

[cloudwalking]

We've got plenty of East Indians and Asians coming in. White Canadian people, your days are numbered. Going by the estimates the minorities in Canada will be the mojaroity in 10 years.

WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW!

The same kind of outcome is proposed for the United States -- by 2050 it is projected that Latinos will become the majority.

 

[Guileless]

Government-mandated population control (e.g. you can only have 2 kids) would almost certainly be a violation to the right to privacy and unconsitutional. It would never make it that far politically anyway.

Immigration limits are a different matter and a very touchy subject that will never be debated honestly so I doubt anything will happen without serious problems that just force the issue.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Government-mandated population control (e.g. you can only have 2 kids) would almost certainly be a violation to the right to privacy and unconsitutional.

I honestly see it happening at some point, LONG into the future...probably my kids generation.

 

[bjork]

Stop illegal immigration. It's not about racism at all. It's about ensuring that those that pay for government services are the ones to get the benefits. We're handing out free rides here. America is not the land of free rides, but about opportunity.

My impression is that we don't have a population growth problem. The immigration does (and it looks like the article hits at that).

iawtp

Seems like here in So Cal, it's a pretty popular debate issue right now, but it shouldn't be. I don't think anyone is opposed to immigrants coming and making a living for themselves, but ILLEGAL immgrants are called that for a reason. But you've got all these treehugger fucks who want to lump all immigrants together so we're not discriminating against the ones here illegally. Fuck that... would you lump us all together as sex offenders just so the actual sex offenders go undetected? Of course not. A crime is a crime, and it should be treated as such.

And any mexican activist in So Cal who says being against illegal immigration is racist, is about a douche. If anything, they just reinforce to the white/black/asian set that mexicans are stupid on the whole. Might not be true, but if you pick your leader and that's your figurehead, wtf.

:cue bush photo:

 

[Shompola]

One thing I don't understand is why Europe and Japan are freaking out over having their population growth rate slip into negative. Sure it means short-term pain, but over the long term it means a more sustainable society.

How long is this short term pain? 50-70 years? The reality is that there will be more old people than young ones if this continues at this rate. And who is going to take care of the old ones? There is the main problem with going into the negative.

 

[etiolate]

Should we? No

Will we? No

I think people make too much money off of the poor and they populate the quickest.

 

[Tarazet]

No, we have plenty of space to settle in. Also, the general decline of the U.S. isn't because of population growth. It's because of an economy which no longer values U.S. goods the way it once did. This is a far-reaching problem, and it impacts schooling, living conditions, and social programs among many other things.