Shuhei Yoshida: "We believe in the premium release of a title" before subscriptions

Deja vu, the thread.

Love it or loathe it, Gamepass should be recognised as a massive part of gaming today. It's certainly changed my habits, and I've been a gamer all my life, owning pretty much every console (okay, I skipped the Wii U) and rarely skipping a big release.

I've never played more games, for as much time, as since Gamepass. This weekend I'll be playing Deathloop, Tinykin, that space salvage game I can't remember the name of and my wife (very much a non-gamer) will inevitably be playing Dreamlight Valley. All games neither of us would have ever thought to buy at full price.

As for Sony's stance, I'm never buying a full price game again, so whatever they believe they've not convinced me. I'll wait for inclusion on PS+ or a below $20 sale for all of their games in future. Because I don't believe in $70.

Once/if MS gets their AAA machine rolling, Sony has a big problem on its hands if it remains stuck in the past.
 
Lognor said:
You've already admitted that you realize most people don't subscribe and cancel after a month. That's just you. I made my point. Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Weird.
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I openly said from the beginning, that I simply don`t know, I have no data, same as you. But once again you just make up stuff out of thin air :)
It`s getting pathetic how hard you cling to...well, nothing, you have no facts, just your opinion that you just keep on repeating like a broken record.
I´m not saying it`s this way or the other, I simply state the fact that we have no facts, and that people like you acting like undercover MS managers are seriously cringy.....
 
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Lognor said:
You've already admitted that you realize most people don't subscribe and cancel after a month. That's just you. I made my point. Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Weird.
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How could anyone know how what percentage of people subscribe for X number of months? Sounds like speculation either way.
 
Aguero9320 said:
Deja vu, the thread.

Love it or loathe it, Gamepass should be recognised as a massive part of gaming today. It's certainly changed my habits, and I've been a gamer all my life, owning pretty much every console (okay, I skipped the Wii U) and rarely skipping a big release.

I've never played more games, for as much time, as since Gamepass. This weekend I'll be playing Deathloop, Tinykin, that space salvage game I can't remember the name of and my wife (very much a non-gamer) will inevitably be playing Dreamlight Valley. All games neither of us would have ever thought to buy at full price.

As for Sony's stance, I'm never buying a full price game again, so whatever they believe they've not convinced me. I'll wait for inclusion on PS+ or a below $20 sale for all of their games in future. Because I don't believe in $70.

Once/if MS gets their AAA machine rolling, Sony has a big problem on its hands if it remains stuck in the past.
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PS Plus is a subscription service that does the same thing minus 1st party games. Also, has plenty to play so you don't have to spend $70. I'd even argue PS Plus has a better catalog at the moment. I'm sure next year will be different though.
 
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Skelterz said:
We believe cash is king and would like to extract a serious shit load out of you then make the game free a year or so later.

#ThugLife
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FalsettoVibe said:
PS Plus is a subscription service that does the same thing minus 1st party games. Also, has plenty to play so you don't have to spend $70. I'd even argue PS Plus has a better catalog at the moment. I'm sure next year will be different though.
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The quality and quantity of games being added to Game Pass vs PS Plus isn't even close, and it's the reason people barely talk about PS Plus compared to Game Pass. September alone has been an amazing month for Game Pass. PS Plus does "the same thing", just much worse.
 
Aguero9320 said:
As for Sony's stance, I'm never buying a full price game again, so whatever they believe they've not convinced me. I'll wait for inclusion on PS+ or a below $20 sale for all of their games in future.
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GamePass destroying perceived game value or fanboyism or both :)?

GamePass being an option for some people is one thing, become THE option and cultivating people that expect to have the games they grew up with or the classics in a theoretical era where people do not value games / won't purchase them would be at best a rude awakening for them or an industry crash at worst (we know how gaming looks like in the land where people refuse to buy games, only to be nickle and dimed to death by dopamine addiction designed engagement-ware… look at mobile gaming today ;)).
 
johnjohn said:
The quality and quantity of games being added to Game Pass vs PS Plus isn't even close, and it's the reason people barely talk about PS Plus compared to Game Pass. September alone has been an amazing month for Game Pass. PS Plus does "the same thing", just much worse.
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Yeah, in a way it is a good play. You try to change the rule of the game not by destroying your opponent but by destroying what they do best, selling games.
In the short term it may work well if people only think about the now ("omg tons of games for FREE*"), but if it succeeded at some point the phase where you deliver the return to the investment the market and shareholders has to come. If it went that way, still a big If, it would not be pretty but it will be someone else's problem?
 
Sonys strategy is the best of both models. Why would they say no to millions of gamers who are willing to pay for their games? Once those fans have bought the game, you can put it on ps plus and open it up to more people who may give it a try. It's the perfect balance and better for the industry. It'll keep developers happy because there is still a platform where people are used to buying games, rather than waiting for them on a subscription.
 
TheGodfather07 said:
Sonys strategy is the best of both models. Why would they say no to millions of gamers who are willing to pay for their games? Once those fans have bought the game, you can put it on ps plus and open it up to more people who may give it a try. It's the perfect balance and better for the industry. It'll keep developers happy because there is still a platform where people are used to buying games, rather than waiting for them on a subscription.
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Best for Sony I guess.
 
Panajev2001a said:
GamePass destroying perceived game value or fanboyism or both :)?

GamePass being an option for some people is one thing, become THE option and cultivating people that expect to have the games they grew up with or the classics in a theoretical era where people do not value games / won't purchase them would be at best a rude awakening for them or an industry crash at worst (we know how gaming looks like in the land where people refuse to buy games, only to be nickle and dimed to death by dopamine addiction designed engagement-ware… look at mobile gaming today ;)).
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Must admit, my post was entirely based on the benefit to me, not the long term health of anything. But… If you push me to think about it, I'd compare it more to an existing medium that shifted to subscription, rather than mobile gaming, which seems like a different market entirely, and a bit of a straw man. Gamepass absolutely doesn't nickel and dime anyone. At all.

Better comparisons would be movies, music and TV and I'd say there's at least as many good movies today, as much good music, and arguably more good TV today than there was before streaming took hold, and I don't see a negative effect on any of those markets. No reason why gaming should be any different.

As for the other comment about Nintendo - yes, I think they'll be in trouble too if they don't move with the market. But I personally believe it's inevitable that any company who wants to exist in this space will have to go all in within the next five years, and will do so. Microsoft are just ahead of the game. Sony have gone half in, which is a good start, but won't be good enough longer term. Good times ahead for everyone, except the physical collectors, and I'm sure they'll still have a dingy corner of Best Buy or whatever to service them…
 
Haggard said:
I openly said from the beginning, that I simply don`t know, I have no data, same as you. But once again you just make up stuff out of thin air :)
It`s getting pathetic how hard you cling to...well, nothing, you have no facts, just your opinion that you just keep on repeating like a broken record.
I´m not saying it`s this way or the other, I simply state the fact that we have no facts, and that people like you acting like undercover MS managers are seriously cringy.....
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No you didn't say from the beginning. Nice try though. I called you out and you continued to argue. I do have data, not specifically for game pass but for countless other subscription services. You have nothing. Just your own anecdotal evidence. Which means squat. If you're saying subscriber behavior is radically different for game pass than the other types of subscription services I offered data on, prove it. You can't. Yet you continue to argue. For what purpose?
Topher said:
How could anyone know how what percentage of people subscribe for X number of months? Sounds like speculation either way.
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There is data for other services, which I provided earlier in this thread.
 
How much would PS+ yearly subscriptions would have to increase to make up for the amount of money Sony would lose if their 2022 lineup was given away day one? We are talking about Gran Turismo 7, Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us Part I and God of War Ragnarök, a better line up of games then MS ever had in it's existence.

PS+ Extra as it is already a strong competitor against Gamepass when it comes to value, specially with how bad 2022 was for MS developed games.
 
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The saying goes it ain't broke, don't fix it. People have no qualm for paying for high quality content. I can't imagine a publisher outside of first party wanting to release day one on a sub service outside of to gain market-share and only gain a small fraction slice of a pie than they would if a game sells well. Why make 10's of millions when you can make much much more if a large publisher/developer is releasing a big new/popular IP?
 
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Lognor said:
There is data for other services, which I provided earlier in this thread.
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Which might be valid if the discussion were about TV streaming services. Gaming is a different animal and we have no data, as of yet, detailing retention rates for Game Pass or anything other gaming streaming service. Any argument on that is mere speculation.
 
Topher said:
Which might be valid if the discussion were about TV streaming services. Gaming is a different animal and we have no data, as of yet, detailing retention rates for Game Pass or anything other gaming streaming service. Any argument on that is mere speculation.
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Wrong. I provided data on more than just streaming services. Please go back and read my posts before commenting
 
Lognor said:
Wrong. I provided data on more than just streaming services. Please go back and read my posts before commenting
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You've repeatedly said you provided "two sources" and both of those were about TV streaming. Where is the other data?
 
Topher said:
You've repeatedly said you provided "two sources" and both of those were about TV streaming. Where is the other data?
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There are lots of membership models which apply barriers to buyers. Whether music streaming, or Costco, or various loyalty programs in a range of products. They are all viable business models, and gaming isn't overly unique here.

I continue to be baffled by the mantra of "it's just not sustainable" cause "reasons". As a consumer, I don't give a shit about Sony or MS's bottomlines or how they rationalize their strategies as long as I can get value out of what they are offering. I think you'd be hard pressed to say GP isn't the best value in gaming - it may not cover all your gaming interests - and that's a reasonable opinion - but advocating for more expensive gaming experiences which $70+ dollar games are doing seems a weird advocacy as a consumer.

Never have I asked for a company to charge me more with the hopes that it increases quality - cause it usually just ends up as increased margins and profits for the business not actual improved products.
 
Lognor said:
No you didn't say from the beginning. Nice try though. I called you out and you continued to argue. I do have data, not specifically for game pass but for countless other subscription services. You have nothing. Just your own anecdotal evidence. Which means squat. If you're saying subscriber behavior is radically different for game pass than the other types of subscription services I offered data on, prove it. You can't. Yet you continue to argue. For what purpose?
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You can`t prove shit and I can`t. That´s the point
You`re just a stupid blabbermouth with a god complex :)
 
akimbo009 said:
There are lots of membership models which apply barriers to buyers. Whether music streaming, or Costco, or various loyalty programs in a range of products. They are all viable business models, and gaming isn't overly unique here.
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I'm not talking about the viability of the business model. Lognor Lognor is claiming to have data showing the month to month retention rates of game streaming services. I'm asking where it is. Frankly, I'm not even agreeing/disagreeing his assertions here, but there is proof and there is speculation and all I'm seeing is speculation when it comes to game streaming. Pointing to TV streaming services isn't proving anything in regards to game streaming. To even claim they are similar in any aspect would require data.
 
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Topher said:
You've repeatedly said you provided "two sources" and both of those were about TV streaming. Where is the other data?
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I provided additional data on other services in my prior posts. Please go back and read them. Thx
DeepEnigma said:
You didn't get shit but a low IQ.


Funny how they're always left out of the loser war equation.
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Nice come back bro!! Wow very clever
Haggard said:
You can`t prove shit and I can`t. That´s the point
You`re just a stupid blabbermouth with a god complex :)
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Yikes. I see I've triggered you. Some of you are so easily triggered and resort to name calling. I think that shows low IQ ;)
Topher said:
I'm not talking about the viability of the business model. Lognor Lognor is claiming to have data showing the month to month retention rates of game streaming services. I'm asking where it is. Frankly, I'm not even agreeing/disagreeing his assertions here, but there is proof and there is speculation and all I'm seeing is speculation when it comes to game streaming. Pointing to TV streaming services isn't proving anything in regards to game streaming. To even claim they are similar in any aspect would require data.
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I showed countless other service retention numbers. I don't think Sony shares retention, but with their ps+ numbers increasing prior to this year, we can assume strong retention there too.

And it wasn't just tv streaming. Are you going to read my posts or not? If not please extricate yourself from this discussion. Thx
 
Topher said:
I'm not talking about the viability of the business model. Lognor Lognor is claiming to have data showing the month to month retention rates of game streaming services. I'm asking where it is. Frankly, I'm not even agreeing/disagreeing his assertions here, but there is proof and there is speculation and all I'm seeing is speculation when it comes to game streaming. Pointing to TV streaming services isn't proving anything in regards to game streaming. To even claim they are similar in any aspect would require data.
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The same, but different.
 
Lognor said:
I provided additional data on other services in my prior posts. Please go back and read them. Thx

Nice come back bro!! Wow very clever

Yikes. I see I've triggered you. Some of you are so easily triggered and resort to name calling. I think that shows low IQ ;)

I showed countless other service retention numbers. I don't think Sony shares retention, but with their ps+ numbers increasing prior to this year, we can assume strong retention there too.

And it wasn't just tv streaming. Are you going to read my posts or not? If not please extricate yourself from this discussion. Thx
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I did read your posts and I'm not seeing the data. Just tell me the post numbers and I will go back and look for what I missed, but I'll stay in this discussion as long as I like. If you don't like it then that's your problem. Frankly, it sounds to me like you are dodging the question. But if I'm wrong I'll say so. Post numbers, please.
 
Topher said:
I did read your posts and I'm not seeing the data. Just tell me the post numbers and I will go back and look for what I missed, but I'll stay in this discussion as long as I like. If you don't like it then that's your problem. Frankly, it sounds to me like you are dodging the question. But if I'm wrong I'll say so. Post numbers, please.
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No, I won't go back and provide post numbers. You're the one that came into this conversation very late and now you're asking me to do extra work for a late arriver? It's not going to happen.

But let me ask you, do you think there is a significant percentage of people that subscribe to game pass for a month, play the game they're interested in, and then cancel?

That's what Haggard Haggard does and he said that could not be good for devs that he does that. I agreed with that assessment, but told him that fortunately it's just a small amount of people that do that. And Microsoft expects that and builds that into their margins. Most people stay subscribed for more than one month to play a specific game.
 
Topher said:
I did read your posts and I'm not seeing the data. Just tell me the post numbers and I will go back and look for what I missed, but I'll stay in this discussion as long as I like. If you don't like it then that's your problem. Frankly, it sounds to me like you are dodging the question. But if I'm wrong I'll say so. Post it please.
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giphy.gif


Same I always enjoy numbers.
 
Lognor said:
Yikes. I see I've triggered you. Some of you are so easily triggered and resort to name calling. I think that shows low IQ
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Nah, sorry, you don`t have that kind of influence but I understand that you just can`t stop spewing nonsense. Seems to be compulsive for you.
Lognor said:
No, I won't go back and provide post numbers. You're the one that came into this conversation very late and now you're asking me to do extra work for a late arriver? It's not going to happen.
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Aw come on, let all the others in on the fun with those oh so valid trustworthy "sources" of yours :messenger_beaming::messenger_beaming:
 
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Topher said:
I did read your posts and I'm not seeing the data. Just tell me the post numbers and I will go back and look for what I missed, but I'll stay in this discussion as long as I like. If you don't like it then that's your problem. Frankly, it sounds to me like you are dodging the question. But if I'm wrong I'll say so. Post numbers, please.
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Hymm. That would be interesting data if it was available to the public.
 
Haggard said:
Nah, sorry, you don`t have that kind of influence but I understand that you just can`t stop spewing nonsense. Seems to be compulsive for you.

Aw come on, let all the others in on the fun with those oh so valid trustworthy "sources" of yours :messenger_beaming::messenger_beaming:
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At this point I would suggest he get that information vetted. All he needs to do is PM a mod.
 
Topher said:
I'm not talking about the viability of the business model. Lognor Lognor is claiming to have data showing the month to month retention rates of game streaming services. I'm asking where it is. Frankly, I'm not even agreeing/disagreeing his assertions here, but there is proof and there is speculation and all I'm seeing is speculation when it comes to game streaming. Pointing to TV streaming services isn't proving anything in regards to game streaming. To even claim they are similar in any aspect would require data.
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Don't know about any numbers - but the funnel isn't leaking out the bottom since - using GP - membership numbers are stable to increasing not contracting. One should presume the retention is pretty good as a result.
 
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