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Silent Hill HD Collection |OT| Programmed in Smoke Signals

M

Mr_Zombie

Member
New voices aren't bad; they are quite similar to the original ones.
However, the mismatched face animations shows up slightly, although I must say they did a good job at matching new voices with the animations anyway.

And is it me or is there no self-shadowing in the scene?
Shadows overall are fucked up.

I'm curious about Vincent's voice.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
dark10x said:
The simple reason for this, I believe, is that empty black space looks absolutely atrocious on most LCDs. These games were designed for CRT TVs, which could actually handle those black areas and display them as truly black. Those same areas on an LCD, however, simply reveal the shining gray backlight pushing through. Rather than darkness, you see the backlight. I believe they were compensating for this by display details that were originally obscured by darkness in the original release.

...

The fact remains, if you want to play these games properly you need a high quality standard definition CRT and the PS2 versions hooked up to a nice stereo setup.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I played the PS2 version of SH3 through on PS3 and LCD a while back, and it looked terrific, and pretty much the same as I remember it looking on PS2 and CRT, excluding the upscaling the PS3 adds. EDIT: And the partially backwards compatible EU PS3s add some amusing things to the FMV scenes; Heather jumping, and Douglas having a beard that glows in the dark.

As far as blacks on LCD go, it's all up to the model and calibrating, but personally I've never witnessed the problem of grey blacks. As evidenced by these shots I've taken.

zharv.jpg


BNHGe.jpg

The Dark Knight Blu-Ray (Bravia W5500)

Personally, I think it's only a FUD some plasma owners like to spread.
 
L

Lime

Member
Persona7 said:
I am pretty sure the Mall crowd noises were in the original game, maybe not as pronounced during the call though.
Click to expand...

Typographenia said:
I believe you're correct.

Did they just suddenly cut out like they do in the preview video, though? I'll see if I can track down the cutscene real fast to post.

edit: http://youtu.be/UAPhJEt1aVU?t=1m03s

They had the crowd noise in the background up until the phone call. At least they faded the audio out, haha.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was referring to when Heather picks up the phone. That wasn't in the original.
 
Pyrrhus

Pyrrhus

Member
Whoa. I wasn't expecting this. I thought things were taking a turn for the better when they announced they'd gotten the rights to the original voice work for SH2. But... damn.

What's the point of acquiring the rights for the voicework in SH2 if you're just going to turn around and not have original voicework for SH3, anyway?
 
kunonabi

kunonabi

Member
Typographenia said:
Silent Hill 3 - Heather and Douglas

I'm pretty pleased with the voices. I think they did a good job with the two.



edit: for those of you who haven't played SH3 before, this is near the very beginning of the game. No worry about spoilers.
Click to expand...

New Heather completely botched the phone conversation with her father. Why the hell is Douglas slurring his speech so much? He sounds like he's trying way to hard to be the grizzled hardass detective instead of the somewhat sweet but lonely old man.

She doesn't sound like a 12 old like she did in her earlier snippets but she completely missed the point of the relationship between Heather and her father which is the core of what made SH3 work.

Just complete shit all around.
 
L

Lime

Member
dark10x said:
OK, I had to pull this from shitty Youtube videos, so the quality is very poor, but you can at least see the gist of what I'm talking about. If you notice in the PC footage, there is a lot of additional "gray space" behind the fence. You can clearly see there are fewer fog particles in play. Now, in this shitty video, the effect is diminished a bit, but if you stop and look at these versions in person you can see a very significant difference that is present throughout the entire game (as fog is used constantly).

http://i.imgur.com/ahiRC.png[IMG]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FJ19AhYZV9U#t=603s[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldJzMqEF6hw#t=253s[/url]

As for shadows, it's VERY difficult to find comparison shots that can show the difference directly.

On PS2 and XBOX, the shadows were like this:

[img]http://ps2media.ign.com/media/tgs2000/image/silenthill2_7_640w.jpg[img]

On PC, however, they were like this:

[img]http://flabslapper.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/16051_full.jpg[img]

They were very sharp and harsh rather than soft. Clean, sharp shadows definitely do not benefit the experience.


I know what setting you're referring to, but that doesn't actually provide higher resolution textures. The textures are the same.[/QUOTE]

dark10x, I just wanted to add to something to your post. Here are the differences in the smoke effect on PC (set to Complex) vs. the fog in the PS2 version:

PC fog
[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/sh2_pc_fogj6kj6.gif

PS2 fog (through an emulator)
sh2_ps2_fognfjrn.gif
Click to expand...
 
L

Lazlo Woodbine

Member
The more I read about this collection, the more depressed I get. Clearly Konami just put in as little effort/resources possible to be able to have a disc release.
 
P

Persona7

Banned
Linkzg said:
what are the chances Konami will also release the original SH2+3 as PS2 games on PSN?
Click to expand...

Who Knows.

Silent Hill 2 seems safe from a legal standpoint but they aren't going to cannibalize the sales of the HD version.

I have no idea if they cleared up the legal issues with Silent Hill 3, apparently they never even contacted the original voice actress for Heather.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
Persona7 said:
I have no idea if they cleared up the legal issues with Silent Hill 3, apparently they never even contacted the original voice actress for Heather.
Click to expand...
I doubt they'll ever try, either. After the mess that happened with SH2, they're probably going to avoid any chance of it happening again with SH3, if at all possible.
 
S

Solid07

Banned
Good thing I still have my 480i CRT TV and mah fat ps2. (random fact of the day: progressive crt's make interlace picture look worse)

I just wish Sony would create an HDMI version of PS2. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
jimi_dini said:
IN-FUCKING-SANE

And people complained about getting all the orbs in Jak2/3. lol

SH2 will be the rarest platinum ever.
Click to expand...

damn, i had no idea about that last one...that's....nah, ill pass on that trophy.

looking at the pics...gonna have to rent this one. i think i might be able to make peace with 2, the changes in 3 though - fuck.
watching the linked video with Heather's new voice, you hear one of the guys commenting on how important it was to him to allow hints/details (such as scratches on the wall, etc) to actually be seen, as he felt some things were hidden/simply not visible due to the PS2's architecture. i get what he's going for here, but classic SH fans are gonna argue that subterfuge was part of the oppressive environment. i wish there was a halfway here, because looking at the cutscenes with Heather in the mall (fighting the first creature), it's off-putting to be able to so clearly see everything lined up on the walls in such detail, weird as that would sound to this guy.
 
Starbuck2907

Starbuck2907

Member
My apologies if this has already been posted, but here is an old Eurogamer article about why they had to re-record the new voices.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-voice-actor-defends-silent-hill-2-hd

Apparently, one of the original voice actors wanted residuals for his acting, so they had to hire a new guy. ...but the advertisement says "original voice actors"...so they did go back and use the original actors again? I'm not clear on the history of what exactly went on.

Anyway, I played through about 1/3 of Silent Hill 2 on Xbox 360, but the backwards compatibility has glitchy and would not let me progress beyond a certain point.

So, I'm debating buying this collection. I have a hard time thinking that I would be going wrong, since I've never gotten to play 3 at all, and have only gotten a little ways into part 2.

I do own Silent Hill: Homecoming, but I haven't gotten to play it yet. I did play "Silent Hill 4: The Room", but the respawning ghosts got annoying and I didn't play it for more than 20-30 minutes...although I did like what I played of it.

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking that this HD re-release might be my best best to get into this series after only dabbling in it a time or two.
 
H

HueyFreeman

Banned
Starbuck2907 said:
My apologies if this has already been posted, but here is an old Eurogamer article about why they had to re-record the new voices.

...

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking that this HD re-release might be my best best to get into this series after only dabbling in it a time or two.
Click to expand...

Thinking you're going to get a lot of "no"s here. The screens/gifs above to a pretty good job illustrating that not a lot of care has gone into preserving what makes silent hill special, namely the atmosphere conveyed by it's textures, lighting, and particle effects... in other words, the details. The odd situation with the voice licensing just adds to the confusion (2 has both options, but 3 is all new voices)

I'm sure they'll still be great games that you'll enjoy, but I think most people feel we probably shouldn't be supporting devs hacking up their own wares in order to make a quick back off a resurrection craze. I'd say if you have access to a BC PS3, or a PS2, the old actual games are your best way to experience them, "low res" and all.
 
A

Ahasverus

Member
I'll step in with open mind. I've always loved Sh2 and 3 but it was a long time ago, I don't think playing this new version will harm my good memories, and if they do I can always play the old ones. I, for one, support this. It doesn't look bad, at all (especially 2, looks awesome, yep greyish but as you said it's because it's not CRT).
3 is way too grey but nothing that upping my saturation levels couldn't fix ;)
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
The new voices are fine, better than SH2's anyway.
The lip sync is not worst than the original (just watch the two videos posted by Typographenia for a comparison) and the acting is ok.
The only problem i had with the voices is that although Heather actress is ok, she renders Heather as a quite different character, less fragile and naive, especially in the phone call with her dad, as Kunonabi noted.
Originally she sounded more like a kid talking to her father, rather than a late teen, and that was kind of the point.
If you look at
her room, when you make it back home (http://i.minus.com/iQ1B1ZgzG41Q0.jpg)
, it's pretty obvious how she's not a normal 17/18yo, she also never calls any friend or even think about doing it, and i think this "oozed" through the original voice acting, but it's missing in the new one (so far).
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
The new Heather's delivery of the "So you're a detective? Well, nice talkin to ya" line is so poor, I wanted to punch my monitor. Goddamn it.
 
B

Bukana

Member
SH2HD will be perfect, I think they put most of the budget on it.
I really hope SH3HD is better than the original :(, please.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
hateradio said:
It seems that the static (filter) atmosphere is gone, and most noticeably in SH3.

All these videos make me want to go back and listen to the soundtracks. Which I will do now.
Click to expand...
I'm betting it's turned off for capturing footage. I mean, it was originally a menu setting. They wouldn't get rid of it would they? Would they?!

I always played with it off anyways. Don't hurt me!
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
By the way guys, if you plan on buying SH2 only just wait for the PSN/XBLA releases.
 
D

disappeared

Banned
I finally decided tonight that I'm letting the past be the past. I won't be purchasing the HD box in light of keeping my fond, fond memories of both games with the PS2. I think if ever want to play them again, I'll just dig out the old discs and fire them up. That's something that Konami, and their bullshit management of this whole remake-thing, can't take away.

I can't speak for you guys who have never played the games before. And by all means, I hope you enjoy them.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
jooey said:
I don't think anybody but SCE does that though, right?
Click to expand...

They released the MGS HD collection individually via JP PSN. The digital US versions are some time this year.

Also, I believe there were hints that SH HD collection would have individual digital releases.
 
kunonabi

kunonabi

Member
disappeared said:
I finally decided tonight that I'm letting the past be the past. I won't be purchasing the HD box in light of keeping my fond, fond memories of both games with the PS2. I think if ever want to play them again, I'll just dig out the old discs and fire them up. That's something that Konami, and their bullshit management of this whole remake-thing, can't take away.

I can't speak for you guys who have never played the games before. And by all means, I hope you enjoy them.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I'm doing.

@UrbanRats

You hit it right on the head.

There really is quite a bit substance to the father/daughter relationship in SH3 that comes through the details and the new phone conversation really just glosses right by them. It does seem strange at first, especially her reaction to Vincent's comments in their first meeting, but as the pieces start to fall it really becomes something special. If you go in with the proper context it really hits you pretty hard and when you understand just how they lived their lives with each other and how the game's events shape it. It really is unfortunate that people going into the game now are probably not going to able to experience it. Heather's performance is the one thing you can't half-ass and they did. So much of the game hinges on her and these new people just don't get it.
 
L

Lime

Member
UrbanRats said:
I remember Tomm Hulett saying that they had to rework the textures and other detailes because of the new aspect ratio.
Click to expand...

Those textures affected by the aspect ratio are mostly the 2D screen images (SH2's clock puzzle, letters, SH3's Heather photo, etc.) I don't know if any in-game textures have been changed (e.g. textures applied to 3D models, which aren't affected by the 16:9 ratio).
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
kunonabi said:
Pretty much what I'm doing.

@UrbanRats

You hit it right on the head.

There really is quite a bit substance to the father/daughter relationship in SH3 that comes through the details and the new phone conversation really just glosses right by them. It does seem strange at first, especially her reaction to Vincent's comments in their first meeting, but as the pieces start to fall it really becomes something special. If you go in with the proper context it really hits you pretty hard and when you understand just how they lived their lives with each other and how the game's events shape it. It really is unfortunate that people going into the game now are probably not going to able to experience it. Heather's performance is the one thing you can't half-ass and they did. So much of the game hinges on her and these new people just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i used to think that SH3 was really lame on that regard, but replaying it after some time, i noticed these strange details that painted a "different" story.
I still think some elements are lame (mainly pacing issues) and that they could've fleshed out things a bit more, but it's more interesting than i thought it was, the first time.
Too bad it was played on such a subtle level that, yeah, what seems a minor change has in reality a big impact on the game.
Lime said:
Those textures affected by the aspect ratio are mostly the 2D screen images (SH2's clock puzzle, letters, SH3's Heather photo, etc.) I don't know if any in-game textures have been changed (e.g. textures applied to 3D models, which aren't affected by the 16:9 ratio).
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that but, realistically, if you're doing a port as cheaply as possible (as they seem to be doing, since they changed SH3's VO because they didn't want to pay residuals to one person) why would you rework textures if it wasn't extremely necessary? Another thing Hulett mentioned was (always because of the 16:9) that in some cutscenes the characters were standing still (you weren't seeing them onscreen in 4:3) so they had to redo that too.
I'm guessing the old texture were glitchy for some reason or didn't work is some cutscene, otherwise why would they pay extra money for texture work?
 
L

Lime

Member
UrbanRats said:
Yeah, i used to think that SH3 was really lame on that regard, but replaying it after some time, i noticed these strange details that painted a "different" story.
I still think some elements are lame (mainly pacing issues) and that they could've fleshed out things a bit more, but it's more interesting than i thought it was, the first time.
Too bad it was played on such a subtle level that, yeah, what seems a minor change has in reality a big impact on the game.


I'd agree with that but, realistically, if you're doing a port as cheaply as possible (as they seem to be doing, since they changed SH3's VO because they didn't want to pay residuals to one person) why would you rework textures if it wasn't extremely necessary? Another thing Hulett mentioned was (always because of the 16:9) that in some cutscenes the characters were standing still (you weren't seeing them onscreen in 4:3) so they had to redo that too.
I'm guessing the old texture were glitchy for some reason or didn't work is some cutscene, otherwise why would they pay extra money for texture work?
Click to expand...

That's what I am saying: Only the 2D still pictures are affected, therefore those are the only ones being changed for this new release.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
Oh, well yes the ground texture in the beginning of SH3 is changed, as well as most of the textures in the beginning of SH2 (and we don't know what else, yet).
 
kunonabi

kunonabi

Member
I had no issues with the pacing in SH3 myself. SH3's structure was very different from the first two games and the pacing reflected that along with Heather's mental state. I've always felt that SH3 took on a more European approach to horror and the pacing fit more into that vein. I might just be more used to it.
 
M

Mr_Zombie

Member
kunonabi said:
I had no issues with the pacing in SH3 myself. SH3's structure was very different from the first two games and the pacing reflected that along with Heather's mental state. I've always felt that SH3 took on a more European approach to horror and the pacing fit more into that vein. I might just be more used to it.
Click to expand...

Nah, the pacing in SH3 was really bad, especially during the first half of the game. Between Heather leaving the mall and finally coming home, there were three pretty long locations (metro, sewers, office building) yet besides Heather meeting Vincent for the first time, story wise nothing happens.
 
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