I have bad news for you about music royalties . . . It's much less than 25%. Good luck selling much on your own as well.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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I have bad news for you about music royalties . . . It's much less than 25%. Good luck selling much on your own as well.
Denton
Member
Dean Hall of DayZ chimes in, worth its own thread but I lost the possibility
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...hs-in-on-paid-skyrim-mods-your-turn-rockstar/
maybe it was posted already and I missed it
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...hs-in-on-paid-skyrim-mods-your-turn-rockstar/
maybe it was posted already and I missed it
After reading bunch of comments to this my only issue with the news is still the cut. 25% to modders just seems so low. On the other hand it's hard to say how much Bethesda should get. 25% sounds too low for them as well. Mods (like the name indicates) aren't anything without the base game after all. Of course even ignoring the split this whole initiative hasn't been a slamdunk but is it realistic to expect it to be otherwise? Doing something new always tends to be partly about trial and error. It just can't be avoided. In either case I'm excited to see where this thing is headed. I still firmly believe the end result will benefit end users, modders, Valve and Bethesda alike.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
You've been sitting here reiterating the same thing for 2 days, which basically boils down to "give me money! i deserve it! y-you're not entitled!".
Show of hands for posters in this thread who have used Krej's HL mod?
Nobody is saying you don't deserve to get paid for working. If you thought modding Half Life was this lucrative business venture that would be your sole source of income that doesn't seem very realistic.
Modding is something that has been around for decades and in the case of skyrim it's the only way to make the game fun. People are pissed. It's natural. You're not changing anyone's mind by abrasively telling everyone to give you money.
Which looks SUPER bad considering.
Again, traction. I'm not saying that it would make Origin more successful overnight. But it would probably make it look more appealing because "at least they don't do this".
Though, knowing EA, they would probably do this the moment we mentioned it publically.
The only problem with this is the return is terrible.
Hell, mining coin might have a better return. This scheme just reeks of MLM scams. you do know there is a delay, possibly months, for any money to be released right?
As for open source, I work on Wine. Do you think I'm looking for money? No. Is is worth it? yes.
They are not saying they won't, they are simply saying "no comment" since the question was, "any comment on paid modding?" Tripwire are outright saying no to paid / commercial mods in KF2. Assuming the system gets out of its experimental stage and is open to any game, it will ultimately be a decision the devs/publishers will come to - then the decision will come down to the modder(s) themselves to decide
The business side of this has never worked out the way you want it to. A modder is a content creator but they rely on other peoples IP. Sort of like mash up artists. Mash up artists get tiny percentages if they try and sell their music.
So you'd rather they charge for the ability to mod than monetize mods that people make? I don't think any publisher would ever agree to that set up unless the price for the tool was massive. Like the 10k licences for autocad.
You know what...if all the best mods being paid...and since I refuse to pay for some types of mods. It just gives me more incentives to try and mod in what I am looking for myself.
If you cant beat em, join em. then beat em on their own game
P.S If i do make such any mod, I will put it out for free.
If you cant beat em, join em. then beat em on their own game
P.S If i do make such any mod, I will put it out for free.
And for those questioning the sincerity of my beliefs - I am a self taught programmer since 8 years old. I am one of the oldest tenured members of the sonic hacking scene, going all the way back to 1997. I have been modding and hacking for decades. I know the relationship amateur devs have, the willingness to share knowledge, the community spirit of development. It is beautiful. I believe in copyleft, I consider myself a remix artist. I love modding, I encourage young people to jump into the practice, because through a lot of hard work, I transformed it into a career. I want success for my colleagues, both professional and amateur. I have seen in my lifetime barriers to entry in the market get set up, and now, slowly fall. Everybody should be allowed to create and get compensated for their work. There is nothing better or more fulfilling in life than doing what you love and making a living off of it.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=852529
Here I am cheering on the kid who made unturned. I see this as the same tolken. I see dissenters as bitching about we, who pout so much of ourselves into our work, asking for the ability to use it as a viable avenue to make a living.
The hyperbolic "everything or nothing" posts irritates me. I dont auggest every mod ever require a pay wall - thats a doomsday scenario that isnt realistic in the first place. These "principle" posts about people wanting to support devs but refusing because valve and bethesda take a chunk make me roll my eyes. This is so much better than we have ever had. The alternate for years prior was NOTHING. At least now we get something.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=852529
Here I am cheering on the kid who made unturned. I see this as the same tolken. I see dissenters as bitching about we, who pout so much of ourselves into our work, asking for the ability to use it as a viable avenue to make a living.
The hyperbolic "everything or nothing" posts irritates me. I dont auggest every mod ever require a pay wall - thats a doomsday scenario that isnt realistic in the first place. These "principle" posts about people wanting to support devs but refusing because valve and bethesda take a chunk make me roll my eyes. This is so much better than we have ever had. The alternate for years prior was NOTHING. At least now we get something.
Mavromatis
Member
I still believe a simple slider like the one in Humble Bundle with the default of current cuts would be the best choice. It could be even beneficial to developer to see in which mods buyers credit them so little and improve their side to deserve more. But I guess nobody wants to explain stockholders that they gave up on 75% for a pwyw system.
This return is on par with what you get at retail on normal development. People bemoaning the cut reminds me of the topic about how much voice work recording costs where people couldnt believe it. 25% isnt an optimal cut but it certainly isnt bad, and its way better than 0%. And not every mod sold will net only 25% for the developer.
I'd like to hear reasoning from any publisher refusing to do this. If they just want to be good pals with modders then wouldn't giving them the option to sell mods if they should wish so be the best way to go? They could even give modders a pretty generous 75% cut.
When's Half-Life 3 coming out, Gabe?
But it wasn't... in fact the options have been getting stronger and stronger over the last decade. From Paypal widgets right through to Patreons, there is an ever growing number of ways people can contribute funds to a modder, and only a modder at that, without limitation of use or hiding behind the monolith that is Valve.
Not too long, I read it.
Is HL2VR open source? If not, wouldn't it help the project? If it is, there has to be a lot of people out there willing to collaborate.
Would you accept the present revenue split? 25% you 75%, Valve(Bethesda in this case)
Don't you think that is a robbery and people are paying Bethesda for a content they have not created?
Every content business works that way. The studio producing a move gets small percentage of gross revenue. The game studio make a game is lucky to get even 25% through a major publisher on a console. You're luck in music if you don't end up owing on a record the recording industry is extremely predatory. A youtube CPM is a tiny bit of the money exchanged for the ad impressions.
Marketing and distribution have been a huge slice of the pie forever. Any money mods could make is leaning heavily on the marketing from the original game and relying on valves distribution channel.
It's just stupidly unrealistic to cut those people out. It won't happen and it is rarely better elsewhere.
This thread is not about you.
Mavromatis
Member
When I read this I remember the Spotify arguments over at Off Topic side of this forum. But at that time people who are Spotify subscribers made that argument.
Unreal is trying to undercut unity; also it involves only the technology not stuff like assets and characters. Unreal and unity both dip into the sale of other tech, assets and IP to use in your game to profit. A mod is borrowing a lot more from a game than a indie is from Unreal.
Paying them at all? Bethesda did actually create something. Its name is in the title if you want a hint. Whether 50% is the right number is another discussion.
The process you describe was explicitly forbidden by many publishers. That is why this is so huge - publishers are FINALLY starting to play ball.
By making you play 1 on 3.
Apple takes 30%, Valve is likely taking 30% as well. The remaining chunk is likely ending up with the game publisher. The 75% is the cut of gross the modder doesn't see. Some portion of that is split with the publisher (bethesda) and it may be the lions share.
And they are asking people to pay them to fix what they left broken.
As opposed to relegating you to the bench.
And every single person that is paying a mod has already paid for the game, so they are getting extra money by the face.
I don't recall Bethesda bringing the hammer down anytime recently? Valve didn't either from what I remember. They're the only two players in the field at the moment when it comes to locked down paid mods. The others that have stated positions on it, such as Paradox (possible, at least) seem alright with the less direct monetary methods too.
If this was a five-ten years ago, maybe, but it's not. This kind of scheme... well as I said before, someone is going to blink first. Maybe gamers still lack willpower for their AAA purchases and this will wash over, or maybe the camel finally gives way and things get shaken up.
Or, as in most cases, shutting off the lights and calling the cops to get you off their property.
You could have gotten whatever you wanted in years prior too, it doesn't take much to set up a paypal donation, start a patreon, set up a webshop(you can do this for free with open source api's too) etc.. This is setting up a scenario where starving artists become one of the biggest revenue streams for companies who don't exactly have the best interest of said starving artist, or the consumer purchasing his goods in mind. Right now free mods are still out but status quo's change and the free content well could quickly dry right on up as everybody tries to cash in on their slice of the pie. Maybe not for skyrim since that's not getting updated and the bsa's are out there. But the next game after that? Especially if you factor in the revenue driven motivation for publishers to lock down their modding system and ensure most content created ends up feeding into an additional revenue stream for them, it's going to be slim pickings in terms of actual free hobbyist work at that point.
You seem very eager to encourage people to take awful deals for someone who cares so much about starving artists.
Yes, they are.
It is interesting to see modding go from "I went into this for x reason(s) and if I get very lucky and make a living doing it great" to "I expect to be paid you entitled shits." Consumers don't seem to be the only entitles ones there. All these sob stories about modders barely being able to make it also don't do much for me. Going into modding expecting to be able to pay the bills from that alone seems like a very foolish plan to me, but whatever.
I guess what it boils down to is at the end of the day if you want to try and get paid for your work knock yourself out, but my wallet isn't endless and paying more to mod a game then I did to buy the game in the first place seems insane to me.
SkyUI fixes pretty much every problem the vanilla UI had. Even setting aside the fact that it's basically a requirement to run mods in this modern era, it is a MASSIVE improvement over what was shipped at release.
So yes, they are.
Now that being said, you don't have to comply. They are merely asking.
That's the trade off for scope. they don't have unlimited time and money. They either deliver less content with fewer bugs or more content with lots of bugs. Elderscrolls sells on scope so they opted for buggy, bland, but vast. Games do have budgets and time lines.
And Bethesda are getting paid for a content they have not created.
SirMossyBloke
Member
I know this has probably been asked, but mods to giant games like Skyrim can cause issues down the road that you might not see before 24 hours is up. What happens if the mod doesn't work properly and you're past the 24 hours? You're either screwed or hope the author fixes it one day, which they may not??
This seems my only issue.
This seems my only issue.
Because I dont think this deal is very awful. And, because, like most things related to gaming, this is an iterative process and it will not always be 25%. I fully believe some publishers will give modders bigger cuts.
So, if i pay for a mod and it breaks my game...what do i do?
What if Bethesda releases a new patch and my purchase does not work for days because wide scale changes were made?
What if said patch is released half a year after the games release and the person that created the mod is no longer working on it...do i get my money back?
Gamedevs get enough flak when something is broken, how can anyone pretend that this will work with something like Skyrim that is inherently broken? Tons of mods dont work with each other.
If i spend money for something i expect things to work. If its free, well then i am just happy when it works, but if someone charges you money he better be ready to deliver.
24 hours testing time is not remotely enough btw.
And, modding is about collaboration. Because usually, peoples time is limited. When you expect everyone to work for themselves because everyone is afraid that his work will be stolen, you are killing a lot of momentum.
But all those arguments wont stop them from doing this because in the end there is money to be made *right now*.
I get the idea behind the system, sadly it may kill something very beautiful.
What if Bethesda releases a new patch and my purchase does not work for days because wide scale changes were made?
What if said patch is released half a year after the games release and the person that created the mod is no longer working on it...do i get my money back?
Gamedevs get enough flak when something is broken, how can anyone pretend that this will work with something like Skyrim that is inherently broken? Tons of mods dont work with each other.
If i spend money for something i expect things to work. If its free, well then i am just happy when it works, but if someone charges you money he better be ready to deliver.
24 hours testing time is not remotely enough btw.
And, modding is about collaboration. Because usually, peoples time is limited. When you expect everyone to work for themselves because everyone is afraid that his work will be stolen, you are killing a lot of momentum.
But all those arguments wont stop them from doing this because in the end there is money to be made *right now*.
I get the idea behind the system, sadly it may kill something very beautiful.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Hrm. I can see there being no more free mods-Well, see creators put up free mods. I don't think they'd risk having it 'stolen' and uploaded to Steam for someone elses gain. And IMO, the cut that the creator gets-25%-is nothing. Sure, the argument can be made of 'well they weren't getting anything before', but when you realize the fact that a corporation is getting 75% of the money made off your creation.....I wouldn't wanna do it. I wouldn't want to profit another corporation out of something I made, ya know?
Except now budgets and timelines aren't the only reasons games will release unfinished - there are profits to be made off mods that fix broken aspects of the game.
Valve shrugs and says "talk to the content author, if you ask nicely they might fix it for you!" and goes back to swimming in their pool of money.
I don't agree with you, and I think that's a shame.
It's optional, the modder can put his work for free and pray someone donates a penny for it like the last 20 years or put a price on it and get something in return.
I know 25% sucks but it's Bethesda, maybe other developers or publishers are more colaborative with the modding scene and make that % bigger.
So who is doing the asking here? I played Skyrim on PC and I don't remember vanilla UI being broken at all. Not optimal either but there you have it. Yet even if it was good enough to make me wet my pants everytime I booted the game up there still would be room for improvement.
Re: SkyUI. So the guy who had previously dropped working on that mod now picked it up again thanks to possibly being able to recoup some of the investments? So the system is working as intended. Sounds good to me.
So let's imagine modders got 100% for a second here. Then they would be getting paid for content they didn't create and for services they have nothing to do with! Quite the dilemma we have here.
LurkerPrime
Member
There are few other games with such vibrant and constantly active communities as the Elder Scrolls games.
You have to sell the game in the first place. You need to pass cert on consoles as well. Mods aren't as popular as people think. There isn't going to be crazy money here. Valve makes lots on 'hats' but it's a tiny drop compared to the volume of money in the sale of actual games.
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