So is anyone getting tired of reharshed Sony platform Sequels?
- Thread starter Date of Lies
- Start date
I'm not going to argue about art style cause I couldn't care about any of the series much (used to care about mario, and still play some of the games for fun, but disliking the character now). Well I think Sly has some interesting art style from the pics I've seen, but otherwise, yeah, couldn't care.
I just thought it was hypocritical to diss on Sony for "milking" and ignore Nintendo.
I just thought it was hypocritical to diss on Sony for "milking" and ignore Nintendo.
gamergirly
Member
Tabris said:
That's mainly bc of Gamecube's poor sales this gen. IF it had sold at N64 levels, noone would care. You have to understand, there's many people that just try to write off Nintendo. So, they're in the allusion that they can do the same thing to anything related to em.
Don't mix franchise games and sequels to the same game.
Franchise games can be interesting. Sequels are alot less when it comes to 4 in the same fucking gen.
That's cool to have Jak2, Sly 2 and all. But after the third installment, i'm growing tired and want something else.
Bring me Jak franchise games or Sly franchise games it could be cool. Still it could be bad as any other game, a franchise does not really give more chances for the game to be good.
Franchise games can be interesting. Sequels are alot less when it comes to 4 in the same fucking gen.
That's cool to have Jak2, Sly 2 and all. But after the third installment, i'm growing tired and want something else.
Bring me Jak franchise games or Sly franchise games it could be cool. Still it could be bad as any other game, a franchise does not really give more chances for the game to be good.
Mike Works
Member
There's a difference between milking and rehashing (reharshing?!) though. I much prefer milking to rehashing.Tabris said:
Stuff like putting Mario characters in NBA Street and just putting the Mario name in every offshoot game is on the milking side. And I don't care, I mean you get extra characters in Street, and I'd rather play Mario Kart than Go Kart f. wacky character designs.
Rehashing though is stuff like Mario Party 13 and the Sony franchises, where you just can't get enough sequels out the door in a generation. People aren't as hard on Jak and especially Ratchet because they added new features, and it Ratchet's case, online.
But if you put screenshots of all three Ratchet games, it'd be tough to pick out which is which.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I'd love to know why Clank didn't get his own game, aside from the usual marketing explanations. Ratchet's character design is rather bad and his character archetype is pretty common ground (same can be said about Clank I know). I just love the little robot a hell of a lot more than Ratchet.
Jak I could care less about, they lost me with the second game.
Jak I could care less about, they lost me with the second game.
Mario is a worldwide cultural icon. To put Jak/Ratchet/Sly on the same level is just retarded.
With Jak and Daxter, it's the same thing with Crash.
Three platformer games released yearly, then a racing game, then a Mario Party rip off.
So in 2006 expect Jak Bash X or whatever.
Releasing ports of Mario games isn't the same as using practically the same engine to release a yearly update of the franchise in mind here.
With Jak and Daxter, it's the same thing with Crash.
Three platformer games released yearly, then a racing game, then a Mario Party rip off.
So in 2006 expect Jak Bash X or whatever.
Releasing ports of Mario games isn't the same as using practically the same engine to release a yearly update of the franchise in mind here.
:lol For Real! They should have more concern for the welfare of forum denizens when they release these games.explodet said:
As for the topic, I suppose I'd be getting tired of sequels to Jak, R&C and Sly IF THEY WERE THE ONLY GAMES AVAILABLE TO PLAY IN THE WORLD. But even if I did confine myself exclusively to Sony's output, I'd still have had the chance to play the likes of War of the Monsters, Downhill Domination, Ico, God of War, Frequency/Amplitude, Eyetoy, Socom, Champions of Norrath and others, all of which were also new IP this generation.
But I guess this topic has more to do with original poster's perception of double standards than it does with an objective analysis of Sony's IP creation this generation.
Date of Lies
Banned
kaching said:
Well I dont exactly remember anyone bringing up "WHO CARES, THERE'S SO MANY OTHER GAMES OUT THERE" when talking about Capcom and Nintendo milking or reharshing. Actually, that's not the point at all.
Date of Lies
Banned
Not to get responses along the lines of "WHO CARES, THERE'S SO MANY OTHER GAMES OUT THERE", I'll tell you that. Hell that could be an adequate response to 90% of all topics in the gaming forum.neptunes said:
See that's what I don't get, you claim you don't care for any of the characters within these games, yet the numerous releases of these games seem to be bothering you.
I'd understand if you were concerned fan of the series and you were worried about the saturation of these franchises, but you're not so...
I'd understand if you were concerned fan of the series and you were worried about the saturation of these franchises, but you're not so...
Date of Lies
Banned
I dont care for the character design but I enjoyed R&C and Sly. I dont care about Jak either way though. I just think this is overkill.neptunes said:
Well I don't remember being one of the people who actually cared much about what Nintendo and Capcom were milking or rehashing. I guess maybe you should have addressed the topic a little more directly to those people, rather throw the topic out there as a general comment on the state of Sony's platfomer rehashing, eh?Date of Lies said:
That's not true at all. While Sunshine will never reach SM64 (the best selling game of last gen), the rest of the Mario games are (or will be) about even.Tabris said:
Counting the bundle, Double Dash is nearing 3 million in the US and is still selling well at $50; it won't reach MK64's 4.7 million, but will come close.
Paper Mario 2 has already surpassed Paper Mario.
Toadstool Tour has already surpassed Mario Golf
Melee has has surpassed Smash Bros.
Power Tennis will surpass Mario Tennis.
The 3 Mario Party games of this generation have sold about the same as their previous gen counterparts.
The way Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion have been selling recently, its very likely that their combined sales will surpass SM64.
Meanwhile, Mario has exploded on the handheld scene. SMW is at 2.5 million; SMB2 is at 2 million; MKSC is at 2 million; SMB3 is quickly approaching 2 million; SM64 will cross 1 million in the next few months.
Date of Lies
Banned
What are you talking about?
Stay on topic plz.
Mike Works
Member
I think people just got burned out on the Jak and Ratchet names in this case. In the NES days you could release a trio of titles under the same name (ie SMB 1/2/3) and get away with it, and even then the SMB did have an instance of variety thanks to the first sequel.Amir0x said:
These days, if you release 3 games that are, at the core, identical within, what, 3 years? They could make Jak X and it could be the best game ever, but a lot of people just don't want to look at another Jak title. It just feels like Crash Bandicoot syndrome. Nintendo and Sega were lucky that they got their mascots out in generations where people didn't mind similar sequels. These days, unless your game starts out with "Grand Theft" or "Hal", you'd better mix some shit up.
Mike Works said:
I respect your point, but I get the feeling that people who say this haven't even really played all the games they're bitching about. For instance, Jak and Daxter is an entirely different game from Jak II. They feature so many different aspects between each other that they're probably the furthest things from rehash imaginable. The same is true of the move from Ratchet and Clank to Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando. So many fundamental changes that it's really quite impressive. Now, from Jak II to Jak III and from Ratchet: GC and Up Your Arsenal the changes are far less drastic, more like tweaks to an already proven quality game engine. Even Sly changed its gameplay mechanics somewhat drastically from Sly 1 to Sly 2.
But what I'm saying is that these games in this franchise haven't exactly been the same thing over and over. That's silly. I'd argue that the change from Jak and Daxter to Jak II is as large (if not larger) of a change than even Mario 64 to Super Mario Sunshine. Going from a semi-simplistic yet still enjoyable "all-ages platformer" to a GTA-hub-style-cum-platformer-with-mature-understones is quite a drastic movement.
Date of Lies
Banned
You mean going from "kiddy" to "TEH MATURE"?
So making a sequel "hip" and "edgy" is better than the F.L.O.O.D.? This is precisely why I think Jak's character design is weak.
Date of Lies said:
This is the type of selective reading that makes your posts impossible to take seriously.
No, the changes are not "going from kiddy to TEH MATURE", that's supplimental to the core changes. There's a hub. You can grab hover vehicles and accept all sorts of missions from around the city. Each mission type is not necessarily the same as the standard platforming we had in Jak and Daxter; we have everything from races around the city to destroying the spider tanks before they reach the hideout. There's mech levels. There's hoverboard levels. The change from Jak and Daxter to Jak II is dramatic, and the polar opposite of a rehash.
That said, nobody said that this change was "better" or "worse" than F.L.U.D. I simply said it was more dramatic, since Mario Sunshine still captured the essence of the other 3D Mario platformer while adding a unique gameplay mechanic.
And if you know me, which you don't, you'd know I fucking adore Mario Sunshine and consider it one of the best games this gen. Much higher regard than I have for Jak II, that's for sure.
Date of Lies
Banned
STFU Sony fanboy
I kid; I kid :lol Alright i understand that the change from Jak & Dexter to Jak 2 is more than just an image change.
I kid; I kid :lol Alright i understand that the change from Jak & Dexter to Jak 2 is more than just an image change.
Actually, it'd be more accurate to direct that sentiment at the individual developers. Insomniac and Sucker Punch aren't owned by Sony. Naughty Dog is, but they established this particular MO of focusing on one major IP per console generation last gen when they weren't owned by Sony, as did Insomniac. Not so sure about Sucker Punch last gen. I don't remember them being so prolific back then - I just remember Rocket on the N64.GaimeGuy said:
At the very least, this seems to be the way that Naughty Dog and Insomniac like to work - focused revision and refinement on a single IP across multiple releases - and Sony only seems to be accomodating them, not forcing them to it. Considering that these franchises generally seem to be selling better with each release and have maintained respectably high critical ratings each time, the only purpose that would be served by retiring IP that the devs are still willing to have a go at, would be to silence the feigned concerns of GAFers who probably never gave much of a rat's ass about these franchises in the first place.
Bear in mind that Sony still has in excess of 10 million people buying PS2s per year. Enough of the new PS2 owners will never have heard of the franchises in question and so it won't necessarily matter much to them how many titles there have been if a new title comes out in the series and catches their interest.
Sony did the same on playstation. I have no idea how or why there are so many Syphon Filter games, but Sony is milking that mad cow somehow. They're average at best. You had the Crash and Spyro games back then as well. They are making plenty of ATV games, but those are just bait for trade in value. Sony seems to make more of it's average titles than it's top quality titles. We've had 4 total Gran Turismo games and are still awaiting the next game from Team Ico. Meanwhile there's been at least 6 Syphon Filter games, way too many Naughty Dog platformers and plenty of Extreme sports titles. It's like Sony knows that it's feeding fat gamers fast food software.
Date of Lies
Banned
kaching said:
This is GAF friend, but well said.
kaching said:
I don't think asking questions about where the industry is going as a while is snobbery. Yearly sequels/updates are not just a Sports thing anymore. This is a change in progress for the industry and I think it's important to ask whether it's good or bad. Unless of course, you are someone who doesn't really care about the hobby.
SolidSnakex
Member
etiolate said:
Average or not, the PSone Syphon games sold well and the developer could make yearly updates easy, and there's your reason for all the sequels.
No doubt they have in Japan but SCEA is a different beast all together. For new IPs in America since 2000....Jonnyram said:
SCEA
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DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Ahh, the battle of those who love the art of games and hate the fact people make money making them versus those that understand game makers are ultimately trying to make money and like titles that evolve at a glacial pace.
While I love fresh new titles that push the envelope and break it like a bubble gum bubble, I understand and respect that great companies become great because of innovation AND making profits. Bungie's recent announcement of the new maps and the pricing pissed some off because MS can't possibly need more money, while others were quick to embrace the new screenshots of the maps and glow with anticipation (raises hand). Jak #. Ratchet and Clank #, Metal Gear Solid #, Halo#, and Half-Life# are just a few examples of beloved franchises that have arrived on much different schedules but have been received very well.
My point, regardless of what we feel about how long it takes to make a game, ultimately all of the games mentioned in the source of this thread have been stellar franchises. And until we get more than a name, we should refrain from criticizing the POTENTIAL of these games.
While I love fresh new titles that push the envelope and break it like a bubble gum bubble, I understand and respect that great companies become great because of innovation AND making profits. Bungie's recent announcement of the new maps and the pricing pissed some off because MS can't possibly need more money, while others were quick to embrace the new screenshots of the maps and glow with anticipation (raises hand). Jak #. Ratchet and Clank #, Metal Gear Solid #, Halo#, and Half-Life# are just a few examples of beloved franchises that have arrived on much different schedules but have been received very well.
My point, regardless of what we feel about how long it takes to make a game, ultimately all of the games mentioned in the source of this thread have been stellar franchises. And until we get more than a name, we should refrain from criticizing the POTENTIAL of these games.
You didn't ask a single question, just made several specious statements about the quality of a number of games you probably haven't even played much at all and suggested that Sony was more of a shovelware developer than anything else, simply because they produce yearly updates to some of their franchises.etiolate said:
They never were. They in fact pre-date sports games by quite a bit. Game develoment is software design which is inherently an iterative process. Developers will always be split between those that choose to do more incremental "point upgrades" and those who prefer to take more time to build what they consider a whole number upgrade to their product.
I think the only changes we're seeing here is a change in the volume of output which naturally produces more yearly updates even as it produces more "when its done" updates, and a change in attitude among people like yourself towards yearly updates.
I care, I just don't care for gerrymandering the output of the industry for the sake of a partisan agenda.
:lol :lol :lol :lol ???????????Date of Lies said:
What are talking about?
There were Mario and Zelda sequels in the last THREE generations.
And SONY is developing 3 trilogies and a spin-off game in one generation (they're planning without Jak, Rachet and Sly for the next-gen) and you are starting that shit?
They (INSOMNIAC, Naughty Dog) wanted to make a trilogy! At the moment, they preparing for the next-gen (PS3) engine. So what should the other team-members do? Sleeping?
They're making a spin-off game (fun game), like Crash Team Racing, Crash Bash!
?? It is a racing-game. It has nothing to do with Jak 1, 2, 3...Date of Lies said:
What would you do? You would call it Jak 4, right? Or Jak Kong Racing, right?
............
Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Sunshine, Mario Sitting, Mario Whipping, Mario Shi......
THAT's "milking" a franchise!
citrus lump
Banned
"milking" is the nature of the beast IMO. and its only gonna get worse next gen, its probably cheaper to make 2 sequels than to make new games each time.Oh and not to derail this thread , but nintendo should think about using its name in titles, not mario. Nintendo kart, Nintendo Golf and Nintendo Power tennis could incorporate all of nintendos characters, not just those associated with mario.
btutterrow
Member
I do feel like so many games with the same characters is a bit of overkill, but since I have enjoyed everyone of the games mentioned (J&D, Jak II, JAK III, R&C1, R&C2, R&C3, Sly 1 and Sly 2) I have no complaints. Ironically, I would have preferred that they came out with another Jak adventure game and a R&C action/platformer. A Jak Racing game and a R&C Squad Combat game don't really appeal to me, but I will definetly play Sly 3.