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So looks like Mueller is about to wrap things up?

pramod

Banned
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...orward-without-presidential-interview-n865421

We could see the end game in May?

Prior to Monday’s raid, Mueller’s team had been aiming to finalize a report on its findings on whether the president has tried to obstruct justice in the Russia investigation in the coming months, as early as May or as late as July, three sources said. That timeline hinged in part on reaching a decision on a presidential interview, these people said. One person familiar with the investigation described a decision on an interview as one of the last steps Mueller was seeking to take before closing his investigation into obstruction.


Now, according to two sources, Mueller’s team may be able to close the obstruction probe more quickly as they will not need to prepare for the interview or follow up on what the president says.

The raid on Cohen “significantly complicated” any negotiations for the president’s legal team, according to a person familiar with the discussions, who also cautioned that “you never say never” in terms of a possible interview. This person said the president’s legal team is still in frequent contact with Mueller’s team on other issues related to the investigation.

White House Counsel Ty Cobb said it was “untrue” that talks had broken down.



Three sources familiar with the investigation said the findings Mueller has collected on Trump’s attempts to obstruct justice include: His intent to fire former FBI Director James Comey; his role in the crafting of a misleading public statement on the nature of a June 2016 Trump Tower meeting between his son and Russians; Trump’s dangling of pardons before grand jury witnesses who might testify against him; and pressuring Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the Russia investigation.


Mueller would then likely send a confidential report to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who is overseeing the Russia investigation. Rosenstein could decide whether to make the report public and send its findings to Congress. From there, Congress would then decide whether to begin impeachment proceedings against the president, said two of the sources.

So we've gone from outright traitorous "collusion" with Russians to "trying to obstruct" justice with misleading tweets? Besides the raging anti-Trumpers who would still scream impeachment, would regular people care? If this is all the anti-Trump brigade is going to get out of this whole thing, seems like a huge victory for Trump to me.
 
Trump is getting impeached. He basically killed himself, and is going to be blamed for the mid-term massacre.
 
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TheMikado

Banned
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...orward-without-presidential-interview-n865421

We could see the end game in May?

So we've gone from outright traitorous "collusion" with Russians to "trying to obstruct" justice with misleading tweets? Besides the raging anti-Trumpers who would still scream impeachment, would regular people care? If this is all the anti-Trump brigade is going to get out of this whole thing, seems like a huge victory for Trump to me.

Obstructing justice is a crime. It's what Nixon was primarily bagged on. Trump is an American president and subject to the same laws.

As for the objective, it was to find any and all links to Russian involvement in the election process including collusion. The issue is that even if Trump himself is innocent, if he was aware of or attempted to prevent the FBI from being able to do their investigation in anyway he is guilty of a crime. This is of course ignoring the people from his campaign who have already been indicted for various crimes related to foreign engagements.

Basically Mueller was appointed to find any links, any attempts to stop him would be considered illegal.
 
1. Obstructing Justice is illegal
2. The obstruction charges are just part 1. I fully expect Trump to be charged with other crimes as well as the investigation proceeds.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
It should've ended when they indicted the Russians and their companies. I honestly can't imagine what an investigation into Russian interference has to do with paying hush money to porn stars. Along with the FISA fiasco, it just feels like the more we learn about this investigation, the more unpalatable it becomes, reinforcing just how badly we really, really need to sanitize the bench and bar from political subversion. We are approaching the one year anniversary, and the taxpayers fronting the bill deserve finality, not an excuse for the Establishment Left to suspend democracy (like the 2016 primary).

The problem I've always had with the obstruction investigation is that everything they're pointing out Trump did is legal, especially the four allegations in the OP. It's not like Bill Clinton lying under oath during a legal proceeding, although I would agree that was a witch hunt. So long as the President is playing by the rules and within the limits of his executive powers, then the system is working the way it was designed - that's not Obstruction of Justice. I'm sorry, but you don't get to take the plain meaning of a phrase and conflate that with the legal elements of a codified statute provision. That's just not how this works. I get that this really sucks if you can't stand Trump, but I myself just don't have the outrage left to summon up anymore, not after a year and a half of absolutely nothing.
 

TheMikado

Banned
It should've ended when they indicted the Russians and their companies. I honestly can't imagine what an investigation into Russian interference has to do with paying hush money to porn stars. Along with the FISA fiasco, it just feels like the more we learn about this investigation, the more unpalatable it becomes, reinforcing just how badly we really, really need to sanitize the bench and bar from political subversion. We are approaching the one year anniversary, and the taxpayers fronting the bill deserve finality, not an excuse for the Establishment Left to suspend democracy (like the 2016 primary).

The problem I've always had with the obstruction investigation is that everything they're pointing out Trump did is legal, especially the four allegations in the OP. It's not like Bill Clinton lying under oath during a legal proceeding, although I would agree that was a witch hunt. So long as the President is playing by the rules and within the limits of his executive powers, then the system is working the way it was designed - that's not Obstruction of Justice. I'm sorry, but you don't get to take the plain meaning of a phrase and conflate that with the legal elements of a codified statute provision. That's just not how this works. I get that this really sucks if you can't stand Trump, but I myself just don't have the outrage left to summon up anymore, not after a year and a half of absolutely nothing.

It sounds like you've been reading fake news.

I honestly can't imagine what an investigation into Russian interference has to do with paying hush money to porn stars.
1) Mueller is not investigating this, this is a separate issue and an ethics committee is concerned about misappropriating campaign financing which is ANOTHER & SEPARATE crime.
Along with the FISA fiasco
2) You need to be more specific about FISA as this is again separate from Mueller.
The problem I've always had with the obstruction investigation is that everything they're pointing out Trump did is legal
3) What exactly was legal?I'm confused on what you believe he did and what was legal.

We are approaching the one year anniversary, and the taxpayers fronting the bill deserve finality, not an excuse for the Establishment Left to suspend democracy (like the 2016 primary).
The problem I've always had with the obstruction investigation is that everything they're pointing out Trump did is legal, especially the four allegations in the OP. It's not like Bill Clinton lying under oath during a legal proceeding


Funny you should bring that up, as of Dec they spent $ 5 million. For reference.
In the 1990s, former federal prosecutor Ken Starr took six years and spent more than $70 million looking into former President Bill Clinton and first lady Hillary Clinton’s real estate holdings in Whitewater and other dealings.
Which in today's money would be
$133,354,016.83 or if we went the opposite way. $2.6 million in the 90's.

So long as the President is playing by the rules and within the limits of his executive powers, then the system is working the way it was designed - that's not Obstruction of Justice. I'm sorry, but you don't get to take the plain meaning of a phrase and conflate that with the legal elements of a codified statute provision. That's just not how this works. I get that this really sucks if you can't stand Trump, but I myself just don't have the outrage left to summon up anymore, not after a year and a half of absolutely nothing.

You don't get to redefine obstruction of justice.

Obstruction of Justice: the crime or act of willfully interfering with the process of justice and law especially by influencing, threatening, harming, or impeding a witness, potential witness, juror, or judicial or legal officer or by furnishing false information in or otherwise impeding an investigation or legal process.
 
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"According to two sources..."
"Three sources familiar with the investigation...."
"...said two of the sources."
"...people familiar with his thinking said"
"...according to people familiar with the discussions."
"...according to multiple people familiar with the matter."
"...according to one person familiar with the matter"
"One person familiar with the strategy..."
"...these people said"

YszBENH.gif
 
"According to two sources..."
"Three sources familiar with the investigation...."
"...said two of the sources."
"...people familiar with his thinking said"
"...according to people familiar with the discussions."
"...according to multiple people familiar with the matter."
"...according to one person familiar with the matter"
"One person familiar with the strategy..."
"...these people said"

YszBENH.gif

What, do you want sources to start getting fired? There's already been a purge going on trying to get rid of all the people leaking.
 

ickythingz

Banned
What, do you want sources to start getting fired? There's already been a purge going on trying to get rid of all the people leaking.
I know right? Better to just spout all of this off and not offer any actual proof. I have found that liberals prefer this kind of information over actual evidence. Their fantasy world can then continue on in their own mind.
 

TheMikado

Banned
I know right? Better to just spout all of this off and not offer any actual proof. I have found that liberals prefer this kind of information over actual evidence. Their fantasy world can then continue on in their own mind.

Actually I'm pretty sure in high profile cases law enforcement may have to review their sources and witnesses. So it's not like if they brought legal action that they would still unidentified.
 
I know right? Better to just spout all of this off and not offer any actual proof. I have found that liberals prefer this kind of information over actual evidence. Their fantasy world can then continue on in their own mind.

And Republicans prefer to get their information from one source that lies constantly, or no source at all!

Aren't generalizations fun?
 

TheMikado

Banned
Yeah, wtf is up with firing potential leakers? Unbelievable.

This is a circular argument.

Sources should be identified
Identified sources should be fired and not entitled to self protection
If they don’t want to be identified and fired they shouldn’t be leaking in the first place.

Not taking the side of the anonymous leakers but that’s the point of having witness protection and whistleblower laws.
It’s so people can reveal things that may be wrong or of issue.

What realistically should be happening? I guess you could argue that they should “leak” but then you could also argue that there shouldn’t be anything to “leak” in the first place.
 
Leaking private information isn't freedom of speech. It's a crime, and a very serious one at that. Leak the wrong bit of government information and you'll be spending life in prison.

Oh so that's why Trump pardoned Libby.

Your definition of private information is really broad.
 
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gohepcat

Banned
I know right? Better to just spout all of this off and not offer any actual proof. I have found that liberals prefer this kind of information over actual evidence. Their fantasy world can then continue on in their own mind.

Are people just not old enough to understand how investigative journalism works?

Some of these news organizations have been around for 50, 70,...100 years. The reason why people take anonymous sources seriously from someplace like the New York Times or Wall Street Journal is because they have decades of a track record of accurate quotes of anonymous sources.

Our inability to discern a pattern of accuracy is super fucking frightening. It feels like we hit some gigantic reset button and everyone has forgotten every lesson that we’ve learned over the last hundred years.

There is zero positive outcome in any scenario. Trump will be impeached, and there will be ample evidence against him, but it will simply not matter because people will choose to not believe it.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Oh so that's why Trump pardoned Libby.

Your definition of private information is really broad.

Exactly, it’s laughable that we get the speech about leaking being a crime and spending life in prison when we got a guy who dodged prison via Bush and then was just pardoned for that exact crime... leaking classified information to journalists. The irony
 
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Oh so that's why Trump pardoned Libby.

Your definition of private information is really broad.

A President pardoning a criminal is nothing new. Does that make it right? Nope, but they all do it.

Private information is exactly that, private. Differentiating between public and private information isn't difficult.

Exactly, it’s laughable that we get the speech about leaking being a crime and spending life in prison when we got a guy who dodged prison via Bush and then was just pardoned for that exact crime... leaking classified information to journalists. The irony

Sure.
 

Corrik

Member
I could care less if they impeach Trump, if he committed a crime worthy of it. And I am a Republican.
 
Compelling argument, absolutely staggering.

What exactly was I supposed to rebut against? Presidents can pardon criminals and leaking is a crime. Seems pretty straight forward? Perhaps it being ironic? Again, sure. Trump isn't exactly a stranger to contradictions.
 
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It’s nice when a trump supporter posts something they think goes their way but goes in the exact opposite direction
 
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ickythingz

Banned
Yes, everyone, pay attention the big bad Trump. Ignore what the Rockefeller/Rothschilds, etc are doing. Pay no attention to those that privately own the federal reserve. Heaven forbid you people actually attack those who actually in charge. I used to feel bad for people who think the president actually controls anything. Now, I feel as though people get what they deserve. Also, Trump isn't going anywhere. The song and dance will continue and that's all it has to do. So yes, focus all your hate on Trump!
 
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i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Yes, everyone, pay attention the big bad Trump. Ignore what the Rockefeller/Rothschilds, etc are doing. Pay no attention to those that privately own the federal reserve. Heaven forbid you people actually attack those who actually in charge. I used to feel bad for people who think the president actually controls anything. Now, I feel as though people get what they deserve. Also, Trump isn't going anywhere. The song and dance will continue and that's all it has to do. So yes, focus all your hate on Trump!

um I think you'll find its actually the Zoroastrians that control the world - not the jews.

wake up sheeple!
 

TheMikado

Banned
Yes, everyone, pay attention the big bad Trump. Ignore what the Rockefeller/Rothschilds, etc are doing. Pay no attention to those that privately own the federal reserve. Heaven forbid you people actually attack those who actually in charge. I used to feel bad for people who think the president actually controls anything. Now, I feel as though people get what they deserve. Also, Trump isn't going anywhere. The song and dance will continue and that's all it has to do. So yes, focus all your hate on Trump!

I’m pretty sure mueller isn’t investigating the Rockefellers or Rothschilds.
 
I'd love to hear your take on where, exactly, leaking classified information falls under 'freedom of speech.' This should be rich.

Classified information? Someone being pissed at someone else is classified information? A progress moving faster than expected is classified information? Since when? Not everything that comes out of the White House, on purpose or not, is classified.

Exactly what is classified? Something like this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.8c6b9e105f94
 

bucyou

Member
Genuine question.

How exactly can Trump be a puppet of Russia when he is literally(diplomatically, militarily, and spoken word) smacking them around, along with ambassador Haley wrecking them in her speech at the UN?

I mean unless you believe in some some secret backdoor channels where they communicate this type of information. But then if you did believe that, you should be wearing a tinfoil hat. Im pretty sure trump isnt telling anyone in Russia he will have more flexibility after the election.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Genuine question.

How exactly can Trump be a puppet of Russia when he is literally(diplomatically, militarily, and spoken word) smacking them around, along with ambassador Haley wrecking them in her speech at the UN?

I mean unless you believe in some some secret backdoor channels where they communicate this type of information. But then if you did believe that, you should be wearing a tinfoil hat. Im pretty sure trump isnt telling anyone in Russia he will have more flexibility after the election.

Easily
1) simply a useful idiot that Putin has been able to play.

2) ( I don’t actually believe Trump works for Putin’s agenda) but sanctions and now this strikes could be seen as acts of aggression with the US striking first. It gives Putin the leverage to claim any military actions from this point forward as self defense against US unprovoked agression.
 
Mueller has proof Cohen went to the Czech Republic in 2016 to meet a friend of Putin during the election. Interesting to note Cohen repeatedly denied ever leaving the country during that time. Its going to get a lot worse for Trump.
 
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OP, post if you're okay

lol

I'm incredulous concerning whether or not Congress would act if he did find stuff on #45.

Additionally, I think he'll try to fire Muller before this stuff gets announced to the world, but since #45 pissed off the entire intelligence community by demonstrating that he has precisely the opposite of that, it doesn't matter.

I'm placing my money on Constitutional crisis...at least we will have a crisis temporarily.
 
There's a lot of assumptions going about what people "want" from the Mueller investigation, re: impeachment. It's entirely plausible that Trump is a useful idiot and did not intentionally commit a crime in colluding with Russia, but regardless the investigation has numerous guilty pleas - these people that were surrounding Trump are clearly traitors to the country and should be dealt with in a manner appropriate for a traitor.

I personally don't care that much about impeachment, especially since the congressional burden for impeachment conviction is almost insurmountable. However, I'm dismayed by people who think traitors should get off free simply because it's inconvenient for the president they like. That's a level of partisanship that is pathological.

The problem I've always had with the obstruction investigation is that everything they're pointing out Trump did is legal, especially the four allegations in the OP.

We are a country of laws. The president has a lot of privilege but ultimately is not above the law. It is illegal to obstruct justice.

Yes, everyone, pay attention the big bad Trump. Ignore what the Rockefeller/Rothschilds, etc are doing. Pay no attention to those that privately own the federal reserve. Heaven forbid you people actually attack those who actually in charge. I used to feel bad for people who think the president actually controls anything. Now, I feel as though people get what they deserve. Also, Trump isn't going anywhere. The song and dance will continue and that's all it has to do. So yes, focus all your hate on Trump!

Yikes, can we keep the Jewish banking conspiracies contained in some kind of conspiracy theory thread so it doesn't contaminate the discussion board as a whole?
 
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NickFire

Member
There is zero positive outcome in any scenario. Trump will be impeached, and there will be ample evidence against him, but it will simply not matter because people will choose to not believe it.

I’m not betting much on impeachment, but if the dems win the house I’d assume he will be. He won’t be thrown out either way though because half the country would flip and the senate will not convict. Perhaps if the media and far left wasn’t blatantly trying to undo an election since it occurred people wouldn’t care so much, but everyone sees what’s going on and it’s the same exact Shit that lead to him being elected. People will not put up with it when it matters, as shown by his election when given 1% odds at one point, and they won’t put up with it if he is actually impeached someday.

Also, people will actually and genuinely believe a lot of the allegations. It still won’t matter as you said, but that’s because people don’t give a crap about them. There is no perfect person, and half the country would take Trump any day over anyone associated with the far left. The far left really is that toxic to the average working person. Whether it’s cheering anarchy, trying to suppress free speech, denying obvious science in favor of pseudo science, screaming bigot, bigot, bigot, arguing the Christian Church is bad for society, claiming high taxes are great and anyone who thinks more than 1% goes to welfare or waste are ignorant, etc., etc. And don’t get me started on the clear and noticeable attraction that some of the most pathetic people in society have to the far left. In the last two to three years, pretty much every single unemployed bum I have ever known in my life took it upon themselves to blame republicans for their shitty lives, when really it can all be attributed to their failure to finish high school, inability to hold a job, and/ or inability to function like a competent adult in life.
 
And don’t get me started on the clear and noticeable attraction that some of the most pathetic people in society have to the far left. In the last two to three years, pretty much every single unemployed bum I have ever known in my life took it upon themselves to blame republicans for their shitty lives, when really it can all be attributed to their failure to finish high school, inability to hold a job, and/ or inability to function like a competent adult in life.

I'm not sure how this really advances the conversation any. I know people similar to what you describe, but I also know a lot of straight-ticket Republicans living in a trailer park and complaining about how "the negroes" are keeping them down even though they haven't had an occupational skill relevant to our economy in 15+ years. If we're just going to define political parties by solely their worst members, it's difficult to see a situation where anyone comes off looking reasonable.
 
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NickFire

Member
I'm not sure how this really advances the conversation any. I know people similar to what you describe, but I also know a lot of straight-ticket Republicans living in a trailer park and complaining about how "the negroes" are keeping them down even though they haven't had an occupational skill relevant to our economy in 15+ years. If we're just going to define political parties by solely their worst members, it's difficult to see a situation where anyone comes off looking reasonable.
Just explaining why I thinks it’s a lack of caring about trumps past as opposed to not believing it that will protect his job position. Agreed I started ranting.

Not shocked to hear the bums in the trailers blame someone else when their real problems are internal. If you hear those things I have no reason to say it’s not true what you hear. If I lived down south I’d probably hear that crap too and be just as annoyed with what I hear up north.
 
I’m not betting much on impeachment, but if the dems win the house I’d assume he will be. He won’t be thrown out either way though because half the country would flip and the senate will not convict. Perhaps if the media and far left wasn’t blatantly trying to undo an election since it occurred people wouldn’t care so much, but everyone sees what’s going on and it’s the same exact Shit that lead to him being elected. People will not put up with it when it matters, as shown by his election when given 1% odds at one point, and they won’t put up with it if he is actually impeached someday.

Also, people will actually and genuinely believe a lot of the allegations. It still won’t matter as you said, but that’s because people don’t give a crap about them. There is no perfect person, and half the country would take Trump any day over anyone associated with the far left. The far left really is that toxic to the average working person. Whether it’s cheering anarchy, trying to suppress free speech, denying obvious science in favor of pseudo science, screaming bigot, bigot, bigot, arguing the Christian Church is bad for society, claiming high taxes are great and anyone who thinks more than 1% goes to welfare or waste are ignorant, etc., etc. And don’t get me started on the clear and noticeable attraction that some of the most pathetic people in society have to the far left. In the last two to three years, pretty much every single unemployed bum I have ever known in my life took it upon themselves to blame republicans for their shitty lives, when really it can all be attributed to their failure to finish high school, inability to hold a job, and/ or inability to function like a competent adult in life.

This whole post reads like denial.
 
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