Support NeoGAF

[Mandark]

I always get a minor shock when someone mentions how they don't believe in evolution. But there are a lot of people who have this opinion, and I know some of them post here. I suspect there are some who feel this way but generally keep silent for fear of ridicule.

So how about it, guys? Who doesn't believe in evolution, and what's your beef with it?

Notice: Ad hominem attacks will get you banned real quick in this thread.

 

[Myllz]

I don't.

 

[Matlock]

Seeing as how there's no conclusive, nondebatable evidence for or against the existance it's kind of futile to debate it.

 

[gohepcat]

Seeing as how there's no conclusive, nondebatable evidence for or against the existance of the moon it's kind of futile to debate it.

Fixed

 

[Matlock]

Haha, what?

 

[Drozmight]

uhh... we can watch single celled organisms evolve. If you mean apes-humans... I don't know. I think it's the best theory at the moment. The alternative theory being that some dude got lonely and decided to bake a friend to keep him company in his kitchen, while listening to Jamiroquai.

 

[Scrow]

 

[Teflar]

Well, I am a big supporter of evolution, and have taken many classes on ancient geology and biology (I'm a sucker for dinosaurs ) I had this one class with a professor who was (for lack of bettter word) bigotted against Creationists. Like, serisouly, heh. We'd spend at least 15 min (of a 75 min class) with the prof litterally laughing at Creationists. So, weather I like it or not, I have sort of had it beaten into me that Evolution is the way to go.

As for there being no proof, I think that that is one of the weakest arguments for creationism. There are fossils that can be carbon dated back to millions of years, much longer then Creationists believe the world to have existed.

The fact that the earth is billions of years old also contradicts that it was created in six days, but I have heard an argument that "God days" are longer then "real" days, and I can even sort of buy that, being a spiritual person myself, but I still think that it is an excuse and flimsy at best.

Finally (for now probably) I also point to living fossils. The Coelcanth and other fish, not to mention Crocodiles and Sharks.

Creationism seems to me to be more of a hope that people cling to because it fits their personal dogma. Just a final Caveat, biogotted professor aside, I do want to insult anyone and if I have it was not intended. This is a subject I enjoy debating, though I doubt any creationists will change my mind, or me theirs.

 

[Drozmight]

*music beats*

Planet home is blue and green!

 

[Matlock]

As for there being no proof, I think that that is one of the weakest arguments for creationism. There are fossils that can be carbon dated back to millions of years, much longer then Creationists believe the world to have existed.

Carbon dating isn't entirely accurate--you could get a reading of a thousand years from a bagel.

 

[Gantz]

I don't. I have a hard time believing we evolved from Apes nor I do believe in the creationism.

 

[CurlySaysX]

I'd hate to believe that we evolved from apes.
I would rather believe that aliens created us than that evolution nonsense.

 

[brooklyngooner]

I don't. I have a hard time believing we evolved from Apes nor I do believe in the creationism.

Evolution doesn't contend we evolved from apes.

 

[Teflar]

Carbon dating isn't entirely accurate--you could get a reading of a thousand years from a bagel.

I've never heard that. I knew it wasn't 100% accurate, but how would you get a date of 1000 years off a bagel?

 

[Matlock]

I've never heard that. I knew it wasn't 100% accurate, but how would you get a date of 1000 years off a bagel?

I was exaggerating--I can't remember exact sources, but I do recall an instructional video a few years ago showing carbon dating on a freshly dead animal (a deer, I believe) that read out as thousands of years old.

 

[Gantz]

Evolution doesn't contend we evolved from apes.

So why was the theory shoved down our throats in grade school?

 

[Teflar]

Hm, ok, without either of us having conclusive evidence, I'll drop that argument, but what about living fossils or how it is possible to see generations of a species adapt and change over time to fit new surroundings? That is if you are and Old Earth creationist, I suppose if your Young Earth then we didn't have millions of years to adapt and evolve

 

[SpoonyBard]

Sure I believe in evolution. Now gravity, that's just bullshit.

 

[SteveMeister]

Here is a thread containing a series of posts about why creationists are just WRONG.

Read it. Seriously. It's very long, but well written, clear, and refutes ALL of creationism's arguments.

 

[geogaddi]

Well, I am a big supporter of evolution, and have taken many classes on ancient geology and biology (I'm a sucker for dinosaurs ) I had this one class with a professor who was (for lack of bettter word) bigotted against Creationists. Like, serisouly, heh. We'd spend at least 15 min (of a 75 min class) with the prof litterally laughing at Creationists. So, weather I like it or not, I have sort of had it beaten into me that Evolution is the way to go.

Yeah, many insecure professors HAVE TO do that. I've met quite a few.

 

[brooklyngooner]

So why was the theory shoved down our throats in grade school?

If you were taught that the theory of evolution contends we evolved directly from modern apes then you were misled and poorly instructed. In its simplest form, evolution is a tree with many, many branches with all species sharing common ancestors of some kind. Humans and non-human primates share a common ancestor that is not classified as either human or ape. This has been studied via molecular studies, comparative morphology (the study of the physical similarities and differences between different taxa), and paleoanthropology.

 

[jobber]

Evolution is a mystery....

 

[Raven.]

Well, I'd say the biggest problem for those who don't believe in evolution, is simply the genetic material(just from a logical perspective, ignoring vast similarities of related species genomes, ignoring human domesticated species aka dogs, corn, etc.). It's existence posits evolution, it exists in a physical medium and is subject to change. When taken together with limited resources and differential success within populations, evolution is but a logical conclusion.

 

[Mandark]

Teflar: Try not to speculate on why certain people believe certain things. I appreciate where you're coming from, but it tends to set off a bad reaction.

Teflar/Matlock: Carbon dating is not meant to be used for anything older than about 50,000 years or more recent than 150 years.

geogaddi: Now would be a really good time to make your case against evolution. Now would not be a good time to make snarky remarks about how mean professors are.

Gantz: Any problem besides it feeling counterintuitive?

Matlock: I take it you have very, very high standards for evidence in this.

 

[Soybean]

Scientific theories aren't just some bullshit that people come up with. They pass rigorous scientific examination. Relativity is still a "theory" but it's all but proven. Not just on paper, but a lot of it in observation. How can you ignore the similarity in DNA that humans have with almost every species on Earth?

I don't understand what people have against science. Everything you see around you is a product of scientific breakthroughs. Every time we understand the universe a little better, it's because of science. We have nothing to gain from believing in superstition.

I just can't believe that we have these kinds of debates in the 21st century. It's been 150 years since Charles Darwin observed natural selection. It's terrifying to me that in 2004 45% of the U.S. population believes that humans have been around for less than 10,000 years. What does that mean for America's ability to maintain its leadership in scientific research?

The Bible is not a research paper. I think we all learned in high school that scientific findings need to be reproducable to be valid.

I have some faith in humanity, though. We once believed the Earth was flat too.

 

[Teflar]

Try not to speculate on why certain people believe certain things. I appreciate where you're coming from, but it tends to set off a bad reaction.

Sorry, I was attempting not to do that, which 's why I put in my first post that I am not trying to offend. I was not trying to speculate on why people believe things, only trying to say that there is scientific evidence, if not proof, for evolution.

When taken together with limited resources and differential success within populations, evolution is but a logical conclusion.

This was more or less where I was trying to go with my comment.

 

[Matlock]

Matlock: I take it you have very, very high standards for evidence in this.

Not very, very. But when there's no real proof other than wild guessing upon scientific discoveries that could mean everything or nothing--wellllll...

I'm a bit skeptical, for one.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The fight against the theory of Evolution is this (and last) century's version of the suppression of the heliocentric view of the solar system. The theories that support the sun as the center of the solar system can be refuted, too. Granted, it's harder, but they can.

At least we all seem to be able to agree that the Earth is round, nowadays. Any Flat Earthers out there? The Bible does refer to the four corners of the world, after all.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I just can't believe that we have these kinds of debates in the 21st century. It's been 150 years since Charles Darwin observed natural selection. It's terrifying to me that in 2004 45% of the U.S. population believes that humans have been around for less than 10,000 years. What does that mean for America's ability to maintain its leadership in scientific research?

We're losing it, as a country. Our math and science scores are dismal, we aren't the industrial leader we once were. And the rise of dogmatic (rather than scientific or humanistic) leadership in schools and government is furthering our decline.

I love my country, and I am upset to see it killing itself over religious issues. Especially when, if you leave the hard dogma out of it, there's no reason that faith and spirituality oughtn't be something that elevates the country rather than drags it down.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

Scientific theories aren't just some bullshit that people come up with. They pass rigorous scientific examination. Relativity is still a "theory" but it's all but proven. Not just on paper, but a lot of it in observation. How can you ignore the similarity in DNA that humans have with almost every species on Earth?

I don't understand what people have against science. Everything you see around you is a product of scientific breakthroughs. Every time we understand the universe a little better, it's because of science. We have nothing to gain from believing in superstition.

I just can't believe that we have these kinds of debates in the 21st century. It's been 150 years since Charles Darwin observed natural selection. It's terrifying to me that in 2004 45% of the U.S. population believes that humans have been around for less than 10,000 years. What does that mean for America's ability to maintain its leadership in scientific research?

The Bible is not a research paper. I think we all learned in high school that scientific findings need to be reproducable to be valid.

I have some faith in humanity, though. We once believed the Earth was flat too.

Great post soybean. I agree 100%

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Wait, are you asking whether we don't believe as in it didn't happen, or as in it happens but we think it was a bad idea? Cuz put me down for the latter. Single-celled organismhood sounds awfully appealing right around now...

 

[brooklyngooner]

Not very, very. But when there's no real proof other than wild guessing upon scientific discoveries that could mean everything or nothing--wellllll...

I'm a bit skeptical, for one.

What specifically do you consider to be "wild guessing?"

 

[Do The Mario]

I do Zoology/Politics at Uni so I would fuckin hope evolution exists with the money I pay!

Just got my 2nd year marks back woot!!!!

Well actually in Australia you don’t have to pay “upfront” we have a higher education scheme that sees you paying for your degree when you have a job that pays over a certain amount.


Yes evolution exists it can be proven in simple experiments

 

[Willco]

Evolution is rubbish. Scholars haved tried to force us to believe that we evolved from monkeys. What kind of monkey? They don't know and they're never specific.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

I find evolution to be more interesting when applied to the future, rather than the past... i.e. what will humans evolve into?

What will be deemed 'civilised' behaviour in 20,30 100 years time...

Of course we can learn from the past, I find it interesting in terms of how morals and 'human society' has evolved, rather than the apes and Darwinian stuff...

Anyone that bitches about how the world is fucked up now should be transported back to the Dark Ages IMO... god that must have been a fucked up time period to live in, even if you were one of the 'lucky' upper class debauched monstrosities...

Go further back, and even the Roman empire was a significantly different society to ours now...

Any further back than that and I lose intersest... :lol

But where human society is going might be interesting to see where it ends up...

Just some ramblings :lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'd hate to believe that we evolved from apes.
I would rather believe that aliens created us than that evolution nonsense.

Always a possibility. That just begs the question of how the aliens came to be, though; the same problem I have with Creationism. Perhaps we were begat by aliens, who were begat by aliens, who were begat by aliens... but unless we're in a time loop it doesn't seem that's a theory that could work all the way.

So why was the theory shoved down our throats in grade school?

Man evolved from apes like I'm my brother's son. ... Perhaps to make myself appear less inbred I should specify my brother and I share the same two parents.

 

[Teflar]

Evolution is rubbish. Scholars haved tried to force us to believe that we evolved from monkeys. What kind of monkey? They don't know and they're never specific.

.

If you were taught that the theory of evolution contends we evolved directly from modern apes then you were misled and poorly instructed. In its simplest form, evolution is a tree with many, many branches with all species sharing common ancestors of some kind. Humans and non-human primates share a common ancestor that is not classified as either human or ape. This has been studied via molecular studies, comparative morphology (the study of the physical similarities and differences between different taxa), and paleoanthropology.

Also:

I find evolution to be more interesting when applied to the future, rather than the past...

The Future is Wild

Interesting show if you liked the whole Walking with Dinosaurs series. No humans though, it assumes that humans leave earth as the end of the 20th century so that nature can evolve on its own... dunno how accurate it is, but they claim to use scientific backing so...

I simply agree that it is fun to think where evolution will go.

 

[Do The Mario]

Evolution is rubbish. Scholars haved tried to force us to believe that we evolved from monkeys. What kind of monkey? They don't know and they're never specific.

Good article about voice boxes in chimps

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s862604.htm


a Nice quote from one of my text books

“The Apes (represented today by several spices of gibbons, the orangutan, the gorilla. and chimpanzees) have been evolving on separate lineages for over 49 milion years.

Molecular evidence shows that chimpanzees are more closely related to humans than are any other apes.”

So wilco the answer is the chimp

Pan troglodytes

 

[brooklyngooner]

Good article about voice boxes in chimps

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s862604.htm


a Nice quote from one of my text books

“The Apes (represented today by several spices of gibbons, the orangutan, the gorilla. and chimpanzees) have been evolving on separate lineages for over 49 milion years.

Molecular evidence shows that chimpanzees are more closely related to humans than are any other apes.”

So wilco the answer is the chimp

Pan troglodytes

This is a little misleading....we didn't evolve from chimps. Both modern chimps and modern humans evolved from a common ancestor (who likely looked more like a primate than a human).

 

[Do The Mario]

Oh and there is great debate in the scientific and creationist community whether or not some apes should be placed in the genus “homo” with us.

 

[BuddyC]

As for the missing link, its name is Clea DuVall.

Pictured on left.

To be fair, the fellow on the right is also a contender.

 

[Do The Mario]

This is a little misleading....we didn't evolve from chimps. Both modern chimps and modern humans evolved from a common ancestor (who likely looked more like a primate than a human).

I never said we evolved from a chimp, the quote says

"chimpanzees are more closely related to humans than are any other apes"

 

[brooklyngooner]

I never said we evolved from a chimp, the quote says it’s

"chimpanzees are more closely related to humans than are any other apes"

OK, as it was in response to someone stating "they can never tell is which monkey we evolved from," I was just clarifying.

 

[Do The Mario]

OK, as it was in response to someone stating "they can never tell is which monkey we evolved from," I was just clarifying.

Of course you can’t that’s the bitch about studying evolution there are a few missing links.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I am starting to think that certain things aren't worth debating. Evolution is one of them.

People can have their doubts, fine-- but when the basis is religion, I'm writing them off. There's no win to the argument.

 

[Do The Mario]

This is the most primitive chordate I can think of right now


Behold at some stage we had a common ancestor that look like this

 

[levious]

I hope Willco was just trying to sound silly... he's probably distraught over the current DC baseball situation.

Carbon dating is NOT used on stuff as old as dinosaur fossils, nor could it work on fossil material anyway. It also cannot be used (this I'm not entirely sure of) on stuff that is too recent in age... so that bagel comment is worthless. I wish I new the range off the top of my head. Anyway, we have many dating techniques, and they're all very good.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm - brief explanation of carbon dating.

The idea of a missing link is pretty worthless too... the fossil record goes back pretty complete to australopithecine... not all the way back to a common ancestor, but more than enough to provide a powerful argument for human evolution.

Feel free to believe whatever you want... there'll be plenty of surprises for everyone in the afterlife.

 

[Do The Mario]

I hope Willco was just trying to sound silly... he's probably distraught over the current DC baseball situation.

Carbon dating is NOT used on stuff as old as dinosaur fossils, nor could it work on fossil material anyway. It also cannot be used (this I'm not entirely sure of) on stuff that is too recent in age... so that bagel comment is worthless. I wish I new the range off the top of my head. Anyway, we have many dating techniques, and they're all very good.

The idea of a missing link is pretty worthless too... the fossil record goes back pretty complete to australopithecine... not all the way back to a common ancestor, but more than enough to provide a powerful argument for human evolution.

Feel free to believe whatever you want... there'll be plenty of surprises for everyone in the afterlife.

Agreed but by missing link I am not purely referring to human ancestors but Amphibian, reptiles etc..

 

[Willco]

If man evolved from monkeys, how come that man lived in Europe where there are no monkeys? HUH?

 

[Do The Mario]

If man evolved from monkeys, how come that man lived in Europe where there are no monkeys? HUH?

They migrated,

Why do human embryo’s have gills wilco?