Support NeoGAF

[geogaddi]

Chopin used to be my most fav, but now it's between Claude Debussy and Igor Stravinsky.

Here are the two geniuses IN THE SAME PIC!

Debussy;

Stravinsky;

For those who aren't too familiar with these guys, Debussy is a french-impressionist composer from the late 18th Century and early 19th. His music is extremely dreamy and surreal. His most famous piece is "Claire De Lune". He was known for being absolutely rebellious in the music conservatoires, got kicked out several times for his philosophy of music. "Music should not be bounded by theory and rules. Music should simply be natural to the ears." is his rhetoric. His music was known for using the whole-tone scale, something totally unconventional during his time. I own practically almost all of his works but my favorite are Books 1 and 2 of his Preludes. Ever heard of "La la Land"? That's where his enchanting music takes you.

From Wikipedia

Among his major orchestral works are the three Nocturnes (1899), characteristic studies of veiled harmony and texture ('Nuages'), exuberant cross-cutting ('Fêtes') and seductive whole-tone drift ('Sirènes'). La mer (1905) essays a more symphonic form, with a finale that works themes from the first movement, though the centerpiece (Jeux de vagues) proceeds much less directly and with more variety of color. The three Images (1912) are more loosely linked, and the biggest, Ibéria is itself a triptych, a medley of Spanish allusions. Finally, the ballet Jeux (1913) contains some of Debussy's strangest harmony and texture in a form that moves freely over its own field of motivic connection. Other late stage works, including the ballets Khamma (1912) and La boîte à joujoux (1913) and the mystery play Le martyre de St. Sébastien (1911), were not completely orchestrated by Debussy, though St. Sébastien is remarkable in sustaining an antique modal atmosphere that otherwise was touched only in relatively short piano pieces (eg.La cathédrale engloutie).

Stravinskyis a genius too. He was actually a great admirer of Debussy, but as far as technicality and orchestral skill is concerned, Stravinsky takes the cake. Stravinsky was a Russian composer from the 20th Century known for "Rite of Spring" and "Firebird Suite" (both in Disney's Fantasia and Fantasia 2000). He introduced Primitivism and Neo-Classicism. One way to describe Rite of Spring's Primitive music style is how my friend once described it; Classical music for moshing...or...the hardcore-metal of classical music. Wikipedia says

"In the "Rite of Spring" he introduces additive permutations, that is, subtracting or adding a note to a motif without regard to changes in meter."

His intricate rhythms and baffling sounds made many critics worried about the direction music was making thanks (or not) to Igor Stravinsky. I've seen Petrushka, Fireworks and Firebird Suite live and they totally pwned my face off.

I've literally become obsessed with these two (including Faure & Villa Lobos).
The interesting thing that happens is that now after listening to these guys, Mozart and Beethoven sounds so...lame?

 

[mas9055]

EEEEEAAAAAAUUUUUUUHHHH!
Sorry, I just got so sleepy!

 

[Triumph]

None greater than the great Ludwig van, IMHO(okay, technically Bach is the greatest composer of all time, it's like he was an alien compared to everything that had come before him, but I gotta give my boy Beethoven the props).

 

[Raistlin]

Nice list.


I'll add Franz Liszt, simply 'cause he's the Eddie Van Halen of the piano Dude was sick, sick I tell ya. In all seriousness, he was far more than just (arguably) the greatest piano player of all time.

http://www.d-vista.com/OTHER/franzliszt2.html

Franz Liszt has emerged as one of the most awe-inspiring figures in all of music history. Regarded by most as the greatest pianist of all time Liszt's genius extended far beyond the piano to expand musical composition and performance well beyond its 19th Century limitations. His unique compositions bewildered, inspired and inflamed the imaginations of his own era, yet quite miraculously he also laid the seeds for a series of schools that would flourish in the near and distant future. Namely, the Late Romantic, Impressionist and Atonal schools. For this Liszt is unique, and his immense influence is unquestionably monumental.

A brief overview indicates...

1. His piano compositions stand as pinnacles of the literature. His vast array of innovations in keyboard technique and overall development remain unrivalled.

2. He invented the symphonic poem - a new and elastic single-movement form, which many subsequent composers, like Richard Strauss and Saint-Saëns embraced. It is at the core of most contemporary and popular music forms today. Previously, all musical forms were organized and structured into several movements. Symphonies, concertos etc. were all divided into generally three to five different movements, each with varying tempos and themes, that in total complimented each other, yet all were interrupted by a pause. Liszt was bold enough to abolish this restraint and devise a single, sweeping movement that carried the listener from beginning to end, without the "dead" pauses. Many of these innovative tone poems were based upon his transformation of themes. Liszt would launch the piece with a small kernel, or musical phrase, which journeyed through various transformations, each evoking a different stage of development in regards to the specific subject being treated, thus culminating into an appropriate finale... be it soft and ethereal, as in Orpheus, triumphant, as in Tasso, or the fateful moan of the dying Hamlet. This contribution to music history is by itself enough to secure Liszt a golden thrown in the Pantheon of Composers, yet, this is only one of many that this great master bequethed to the world. List of Symphonic Poems.

3. His music evoked deep psychological and emotional impact far exceeding what previously existed. Thus he opened new dimensions not only in the world of music, but also in human awareness to the immense impact this emotional, and mysterious, form of communication could have on humans. Liszt is documented as being the first person to ever attempt using music as therapy after visiting sick and demorilized patients in hospitals. The majority of Liszt's compositions breathe with a human beat of passion rather than a metronomic, or robotic, beat that is many times a slave to pure notation. The dark timbres of the Dante Sonata, Hamlet, Dante Symphony or the passionate swells of Harmonies du soir are all sonic premières in human history. Pushing beyond the mathematical Bach, the grace of Mozart or brotherhood of Beethoven, Liszt released the very heart, soul, and to some people's chagrin, demons of mankind. Wagner's great "Ring", especially Siegfried, could never have been born without knowing Liszt. Grieg's famous Hall of the Mountain King shows a kinship to Liszt's Inferno movt. from the Dante Symphony. Dvorak's popular Largo from his New World Symphony also derives colorings found in the intro of Liszt's Purgatory movt., again from Liszt's Dante Symphony. The power and breadth of Liszt's music clearly touched many, yet sadly... Liszt rarely, or never, received credit...until now.

4. He was one of the first modern conductors, breathing life into a score in lieu of merely beating time, thus focusing more on fluid expression rather than a cold metronomic beat. While a metronome may have its place in certain circumstances, over use and strict adherence drains a performance of its humanistic beauties, especially works from the Romantic era. Unfortunately, there are still many performers today that roboticize Romantic music. Just because we live in a progressively industrial and computerized world doesn't mean we should abandon our humanity. This is not to say that all works must abandon the metronomic beat, as it certainly is mandatory with certain works, such as Ravel's Bolero or Shostakovich's third movement from his 8th Symphony for example, but when performing romantic works that breathe with passion and intense mood swings it's imperative to feel the beat with one's heart and not one's mind. So, perhaps many instuctors today should heed Liszt's advice - don't use a metronome!

5. He developed the transformation of themes, later imitated by Wagner as a leitmotif. As mentioned earlier, this formed the galvinizing structure that kept the symphonic poems together, yet he also utilized this in his concertos, the mighty B minor sonata, and his profoundly effective symphonies.

6. He was the first and true inventor of impressionism and atonal music, well before Debussy and Schoenberg.

7. He was the first to fully orchestrate on the piano, utilizing all its undiscovered resources, earning him the title King of the piano. The lush blankets of sound that Liszt summoned from the piano were strikingly novel, and they profoundly expanded the possibilities for all others that followed.

8. With praiseworthy benevolence Liszt taught freely to well over 400 students, procuring a vital school of disciples; Von Bulow, Rosenthal, Siloti, Friedheim, d'Albert and others- that all carried his blazing torch forward. Likewise, he was the first, and perhaps greatest, musical philanthropist by raising funds for national disasters and charities, or erecting the Beethoven monument, which was largely due to his efforts.

9. He created strikingly original orchestrations utilizing unconventional instruments such as, the triangle Piano Concerto #1 , harp Dante Symphony and bass drum Héroïde Funèbre.

10. He devised the piano recital and master class, both indispensable to modern audiences and students respectively. He had perfect pitch, and was the first performer to play entirely from memory, thus forging today's commonplace standard.

11. He selflessly promoted the works of fellow composers; Wagner, Grieg, Smetana, Berlioz, Debussy, Saint-Saëns, Faure, Borodin and others who all likewise gained valuable artistic insights into their own creativity by studying this grand master.

12. And perhaps most importantly he altered the course of music history, more than any 19th Century composer, as the future would follow Liszt's direction, not Brahms or the traditionalists- who followed Beethoven's adopted classical structure.

 

[geogaddi]

EEEEEAAAAAAUUUUUUUHHHH!
Sorry, I just got so sleepy!

Whoops! What do you know? I accidentally made a thread @ 12 am!

 

[Tarazet]

Just one favorite? I couldn't possibly pick one. There are so many composers that I love for so many different reasons. All I can say for sure is, anyone who puts down classical music for being dull, or repetitive, or too 'pretty' or 'soft' has simply been failed by Hollywood.

I love the two you mentioned, of course. Debussy more, but not the early stuff like Clair de Lune, but the Preludes, Etudes, Images, Estampes and the other, more advanced work he did. Clair de Lune is fine, but as part of the Suite Bergamasque it doesn't really fit, which reduces its value in my eyes.

Chopin makes up the bulk of my repertoire. I can sit down and play Chopin for hours, from memory... the twists and turns he takes are the product of an incredibly fertile imagination. To produce this kind of music just a couple of years after the deaths of Beethoven and Schubert must have taken incredible bravery.

 

[whytemyke]

Vivaldi!!! Four Seasons is fucking awesome.

And don't leave out Tchaikovski. The full 1812 Overture is probably my favorite piece ever, and one of my fav pieces of music overall.

 

[SteveMeister]

W. A. Mozart is my favorite. My wife's favorite is Dvorak.

 

[Prospero]

Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakov for me.

 

[scorcho]

if i had to pick on composer it would be JS Bach.

 

[lexy]

if i had to pick on composer it would be JS Bach.

Seconded.

 

[Error Macro]

Just one, I would have to pick Beethoven.

 

[Kuramu]

In fourth or fifth grade in the concert band I started to notice that all of the most exciting songs, the songs that would get stuck in my head on the bus ride home, were by Mozart. So i started hunting down his music. I now have a kick ass collection... all of his symphonies and piano concertos. It's truly unbelievable how much music he made in his short 35 years on earth.

 

[WARCOCK]

Mozart's requiem( the parts that he wrote) imo is probably the most empowering peice of music created. It really feels like the last effort a human can accomplish, a punishment from god himself. I am no critic, I only listen to classical music for pure enjoyment and relaxation. To be honest i dont get all the jizz about Bach except the multiple versions of tocata and air, warcock am bleh.

 

[ronito]

Bach (of the J.S. variety), there's something to be said about his craft and making music for the sake of music.

On the other end there's Mahler. Wonderful Mahler. No one has ever orchestrated like him.

 

[demon]

Chopin

 

[silenttwn]

Holst for one reason.

I have listened to some of his other stuff, but it just isn't the same. The Planets is amazing. I can never get tired of it and hearing it performed live always sends shivers down my spine.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Holst for one reason.

I have listened to some of his other stuff, but it just isn't the same. The Planets is amazing. I can never get tired of it and hearing it performed live always sends shivers down my spin.

+1

add in Rachmaninoff/ov (whatever) and from movie-land: Ennio Morricone

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

Rachmaninoff!!!!!

 

[Dice]

I don't think I could ever decide that. I have ambitions to become a composer myself, and there is just so much from all of them that I love. Though recently I've been greatly enjoying Mussorgsky, notably the 4th piece from Pictures at an Exhibition--also, the second piece in Tchaikovsky's first, which is much longer.

 

[thomaser]

I only have a couple of broad collections plus a few albums by Debussy and Satie, so I don't feel like I can say for sure who my favourite composer is, but Vivaldi's Four Seasons is probably my favourite piece of music. Part 3 of Summer is insane

Debussy, Grieg, Beethoven, Gershwin, Bizet (Carmen!), Tchaikovsky and Rodrigo also come to mind, but there are so many more that deserve a mention... I like a bit of everyone, really.

 

[geogaddi]

Holst for one reason.

I have listened to some of his other stuff, but it just isn't the same. The Planets is amazing. I can never get tired of it and hearing it performed live always sends shivers down my spin.

It seems that everyone's favorite piece in Holst's Planets is Mars : Bringer of War, but my fav is Neptune for its eerie and haunting moods.

 

[radioheadrule83]

It seems that everyone's favorite piece in Holst's Planets is Mars : Bringer of War, but my fav is Neptune for its eerie and haunting moods.

I love it where the choral stuff comes in at the end (if it's the one I'm thinking of). Used to listen to that a lot when trying to get to sleep.

 

[geogaddi]

I love it where the choral stuff comes in at the end (if it's the one I'm thinking of). Used to listen to that a lot when trying to get to sleep.

yeah, thats Neptune alright.

 

[ronito]

For the sake of being esoteric I'm going to have to add Leo Brouwer, Astor Piazzolla and Hindemith to the list. That way I'll feel so cool knowing composers that most people don't.

Worst composers? Elliot Carter.

 

[Rei_Toei]

Satie:

I guess there are photo's of him, but this drawing is just so fuckin' cool

Massive amount of info: http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/intro.html

I guess a lot of people know his Gnossienne (No.5) but he's made so much more.

 

[geogaddi]

Satie:

I guess there are photo's of him, but this drawing is just so fuckin' cool

Massive amount of info: http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/intro.html

I guess a lot of people know his Gnossienne (No.5) but he's made so much more.

I'd never think someone in GAF would like Erick Satie. Satie pwns!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dan]

Holst for one reason.

I have listened to some of his other stuff, but it just isn't the same. The Planets is amazing. I can never get tired of it and hearing it performed live always sends shivers down my spin.

Yeah, I'd go with this, although I can't say I'm very well versed in classical composers.

Besides, The Planets was blatant inspiration for a lot of the greatest film work John Williams has done.

 

[thomaser]

When it comes to Satie, Gymnopédie no. 1 is by far his best in my opinion The opening in particular is so beautiful it hurts.

 

[brooklyngooner]

Bach, Chopin, Schubert, Palestrina, Mozart, Verdi, many others. But when all is said and done, Bach.

Who is playing makes a big difference to me as well. A Schiff rendition of Suite #2 in A minor will not excite me as much as Brendel on Impromptu No. 2 in A flat despite that fact that all things considered, I prefer the former to the latter.

 

[ourumov]

Tchaikovsky

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Bach

 

[Tarazet]

For the sake of being esoteric I'm going to have to add Leo Brouwer, Astor Piazzolla and Hindemith to the list. That way I'll feel so cool knowing composers that most people don't.

Worst composers? Elliot Carter.

I play Hindemith's 1922 suite, but I don't know any Brouwer or Piazzolla. I don't think they wrote much for my instrument. Hindemith is fun, and I think his music can be quite beautiful sometimes. But it's always heavy and depressing, which might turn some people off.

Why don't you like Carter?

 

[ronito]

I don't know about Satie. His Gymnopedies, while all beautiful, were all pieces that I felt I could've written in my junior year at college, they were all so obvious. But the problem is, I never wrote it, I never fleshed them out, and neither did anyone else. So does that make him a genius for writing the obvious? Or does that make the rest of us stupid for not writing it down? I'm hoping the former and not the latter.

 

[Tarazet]

I don't know about Satie. His Gymnopedies, while all beautiful, were all pieces that I felt I could've written in my junior year at college, they were all so obvious. But the problem is, I never wrote it, I never fleshed them out, and neither did anyone else. So does that make him a genius for writing the obvious? Or does that make the rest of us stupid for not writing it down? I'm hoping the former and not the latter.

You just don't know the history behind him. In his time, it was absolutely unheard of to use major sevenths as the primary harmony, as Satie does in the first Gymnopedie. And parody in music had always been a subtle thing, hidden under the argument, not an integral part of the piece of itself. He was a revolutionary.

 

[ronito]

-I don't mean to take the thread hostage sorry.

But Satie wrote so much more important stuff! Listen to "La Belle excentrique" then you'll see how revolutionary he was. My point was that given the time period if he had not written the Gymnopedies someone else would have. In his later works did he prove himself as a true genius.

As for Carter. I've always maintained that he was a good example of why musicians should be poor (ergo they need to be palatable). Musically I understand what he's doing, I just don't care for it. I enjoy John Cage's work a lot, (but not that 1 minute 36 seconds piece), but most people just don't care for him either. Just a matter of taste.

"I would like to hear Elliot Carter's Fourth String Quartet, if only to discover what a cranky prostate does to one's polyphony."
--James Sellars

 

[Great King Bowser]

Koji Kondo

Someone had to do it.

 

[teh_pwn]

Not a huge fan of classical because the intruments are too limited.

John Williams is my favorite. Hook's soundtrack owns.

 

[Diablos]

BOY OH BOY I JUST LOVE NOBUO UEMATSU!111111

 

[ronito]

BOY OH BOY I JUST LOVE NOBUO UEMATSU!111111

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Tarazet]

-I don't mean to take the thread hostage sorry.

But Satie wrote so much more important stuff! Listen to "La Belle excentrique" then you'll see how revolutionary he was. My point was that given the time period if he had not written the Gymnopedies someone else would have. In his later works did he prove himself as a true genius.

I understand quite well how he developed. I've played through Vexations, the Sonatine Bureaucratique, Embryons Desechees, the Three Pieces in the Form of a Pear, etc. I don't think that anything he wrote was more revolutionary than the Gymnopedies.

He was working at a time where the prominent composers were Mahler, Liszt, Verdi, Brahms, Wagner. Great composers, all of them, perhaps the greatest ever, but so heavy, so complex, so moody. And if that's all you know, this overblown sturm und drung, then how are Satie's Gymnopedies going to sound to you? They would seem absolutely insane.

As for Carter. I've always maintained that he was a good example of why musicians should be poor (ergo they need to be palatable). Musically I understand what he's doing, I just don't care for it. I enjoy John Cage's work a lot, (but not that 1 minute 36 seconds piece), but most people just don't care for him either. Just a matter of taste.

"I would like to hear Elliot Carter's Fourth String Quartet, if only to discover what a cranky prostate does to one's polyphony."
--James Sellars

John Cage's 4'33" is a piece everyone should know about, but it should not be performed.

Personally I enjoy Carter's piano music a lot more than anything else he wrote. Night Fantasies is by far the best piece of piano music written since 1975, and the earlier Sonata is pretty damn cool, too. It contains a lot of brilliant ideas. The symphonic stuff and the quartets don't strike me as having the same sort of purity.

 

[Lambtron]

The mighty Merzbow.

 

[ronito]

He was working at a time where the prominent composers were Mahler, Liszt, Verdi, Brahms, Wagner. Great composers, all of them, perhaps the greatest ever, but so heavy, so complex, so moody. And if that's all you know, this overblown sturm und drung, then how are Satie's Gymnopedies going to sound to you? They would seem absolutely insane.

I'll give you that about Satie, you've made a good point.

But Carter you will not get me to agree on him. For some reason I just cannot stomach his stuff, even though I'd a huge fan of late twentieth century music. I'd rather listen to Joan Tower or Ginastera for that kind of music they had/have much more style.

 

[Tarazet]

I'll give you that about Satie, you've made a good point.

But Carter you will not get me to agree on him. For some reason I just cannot stomach his stuff, even though I'd a huge fan of late twentieth century music. I'd rather listen to Joan Tower or Ginastera for that kind of music they had/have much more style.

Funny, I can't stand Joan Tower or Ginastera. I can see why you would be turned off by Carter, but I think with those reasons in mind, I would be even more turned off by those two. I'd rather listen to Luigi Dallapiccola, Luciano Berio, Pierre Boulez, William Bolcom, Olivier Messiaen, Dmitri Shostakovich..

 

[ronito]

How funny. I find their work just so full of style, I find it very exciting to perform and listen to (Tower's "Clocks" and Ginastera's "Sonata for Guitar" are great in my book). The rest of your list is pretty much required listening, although I don't care for Boulez. But Messiaen...oh wonderful Messiaen. What a wonderful composer.

 

[Tarazet]

How funny. I find their work just so full of style, I find it very exciting to perform and listen to (Tower's "Clocks" and Ginastera's "Sonata for Guitar" are great in my book). The rest of your list is pretty much required listening, although I don't care for Boulez. But Messiaen...oh wonderful Messiaen. What a wonderful composer.

Ginastera's first Piano Sonata is thrilling, and I imagine there are some other great pieces from that period, but after the '50s he wrote too much music which is just pandering. And Tower strikes me as a composer with a lot of skill but no talent.

Messiaen is the man... Debussy was the first important composer to hear a gamelan, but Messiaen used it the best in his music... the music he intends to sound religious is deeply moving... and he had an impossibly good ear to be able to transcribe bird-song like he did. What do you think of his wife Yvonne Loriod's playing? I'm always interested by it, but I'm not sure I ever really understand it or like it.

 

[ronito]

Back in college I heard a recording of hers from a friend that got me into Messiaen. I was...perplexed. But yes, Messiaen is really the man, everyone talks about building "great cathedrals of sound" and he did it, not many could. Too bad most people will never understand it.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Any Messiaen recommendations, besides Turangalila and Quartet for the End of Time?

 

[Tarazet]

Any Messiaen recommendations, besides Turangalila and Quartet for the End of Time?

Those are his two greatest works, but you should also buy Hakon Austbo's Messiaen Piano Music, Vol. 3, which has the Preludes, the Quatre Etudes de Rythme, and the 15-minute concert piece Canteyodjaya. It's a budget-priced CD on Naxos that would be a good deal at full price.