Some people are really weird about nutrition, let's talk about it

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Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
So, I have a few people in my life who I care for dearly, and are wonderful people - I think it's important to preface this with that information because these talks can get wild.

Anyway, these people are often very vocal or preachy about nutrition. Some are really 'out there', ie, consuming tap water will give you cancer. Some are a bit less so I guess, they'll want to get the pink salt because it's better for you. I'm sure I have a lot of things I'm misinformed about when it comes to nutrition too.

The thing is... That's all they seem to care about it. In the western world, what's probably the most important indicator of food 'health', is calories, right? So why is it that I'm pretty sure every single person who will tell me I'll.. I don't know, get cancer from aspartame, or be malnourished if I don't chomp on all natural organic supplements - also seem to not give a shit about calories. I don't mean that they are overweight (... Well a few of them are), but when I bring up that what I really try to focus on is calories, they roll their eyes like I'm the crazy person.

Lately I've been feeling like I hold my tongue in these situations too much. Someone can spend 45 minutes over dinner talking about how they think I should switch to organic carrots or something, but if be I'm like 'nah, that's all not... Real nutrition, as long as I'm eating a decent variety of food all I need to care about is calories' it feels like I'd be the one making the social gaffe?

GAF, it could just be me, it could be that I'm just too much of a wimp to rock the boat (accurate), but doesn't it feel like it's more okay to preach to someone about their organic food consumption, but not their calories? If you think I'm not crazy, why do you think that is, what in our culture makes it like that?
 
I thought people like that only existed on the internet.

Ignore it and eat yourself a big greasy ass burger in front of them, smack your lips and everything.
 
joe2187 said:
I thought people like that only existed on the internet.

Ignore it and eat yourself a big greasy ass burger in front of them.
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The thing is they'd be more likely to eat a big greasy ass burger if it used... Like organic ingredients and they took it with a homeopathic gluten pill (I swear this is a real thing that someone I know takes). If I'm like '... Nah, that has 2200 calories' they'd be all '?! Are you crazy?! This is 1000% healthier than a quarter pounder! No hormones in the beef, for one!'
 
I get the pink salt because it tastes great.

Also, the more I read about any of this stuff, the more apparent it is that no one knows what the hell they're talking about, with some people knowing less than others. "Eat alkaline foods, like lemon!" "Microwaving food frees up radicals that will wreck your body with their idealism!" Excuse me, what?

I do take vitamins, though. Maybe they work, but it's fine, as long as I feel like they work.
 
People have been told there is only one way to do stuff for so long they don't respond well to the idea that reality is the ultimate multiple-choice, everyone loses, everyone dies, and the differences between varies choices are relatively too small to actually worry about in more than an academic manner.

Except for restricting processed foods, lowering added sugars (or just eating too many simple carbs), and limiting calorie intake to facilitate fat loss. That's pretty much it. Supplements don't do crap, "natural" doesn't do crap (or at least not beyond being non-processed), tap water quality can vary immensely with local law, but is generally the cleanest form of water in countries that actually enforce national standards (so basically Western Europe), and salt is entirely useless to consume.
Everything else is aesthetic preference at best.
 
Septimus Prime said:
I get the pink salt because it tastes great.

Also, the more I read about any of this stuff, the more apparent it is that no one knows what the hell they're talking about, with some people knowing less than others. "Eat alkaline foods, like lemon!" "Microwaving food frees up radicals that will wreck your body with their idealism!" Excuse me, what?

I do take vitamins, though. Maybe they work, but it's fine, as long as I feel like they work.
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Ok, I've totally had someone tell me that lemon thing. It was fucking weird.
 
Kinitari said:
The thing is they'd be more likely to eat a big greasy ass burger if it used... Like organic ingredients and they took it with a homeopathic gluten pill (I swear this is a real thing that someone I know takes). If I'm like '... Nah, that has 2200 calories' they'd be all '?! Are you crazy?! This is 1000% healthier than a quarter pounder! No hormones in the beef, for one!'
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What is a homepathic gluten pill? what is it for?

I've seen some really stupid shit at my job that people think they know better about their food than the guy that cooks it. Like ordering gluten free shit while drinking beer or asking me to cook them a rare steak with no pink and no blood a list of food allergies a mile long that contradict one another. (No pepper! Pink pepper OKAY!, No bell peppers...unless they're roasted and skinned, No raw carrots...cooked only! ABSOLUTELY NO COW! Filet mignon or Hanger steak is fine. NO SALT OR OIL OR DAIRY! but butter is fine) Seriously...

You're all idiots....just tell me....you dont like something dont make up bullshit.
 
joe2187 said:
What is a homepathic gluten pill? what is it for?
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So she thinks she is gluten intolerant, but then recently found pills that she can take before eating bread or pasta that makes it not upset her digestion. This isn't a real thing, it's a sugar pill and... Well it's a made up pill that she can only take because she made up her intolerance.
 
As someone who went to school for nursing, all this is infuriating. Even a cursory high school level education of biology and chemistry is enough to discount this shit. But people persist....
 
I don't know about where you live but in a Midwest us city not drinking the tap water is probably a good call. Lead is bad. Especially if you don't own and aren't going to install an RO filter.
 
Kinitari said:
So she thinks she is gluten intolerant, but then recently found pills that she can take before eating bread or pasta that makes it not upset her digestion. This isn't a real thing, it's a sugar pill and... Well it's a made up pill that she can only take because she made up her intolerance.
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Hegel said that vague or overly abstract principles tend to devolve into superstition because they end up being too remote to serve as useful rules for action.

I think that sort of thing applies to the common discourse on health, it seems like usually the consensus amounts to little more than "health is good".
 
There's a girl I work with who saw me drinking Diet Mountain Dew since I'm weaning myself off caloric drinks. Tried debating me about how aspartame is going to give me cancer, its WAY worse for me than the sugar in a real soda. Wouldn't accept CNN as a real source (typical) or the AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY. That's when I gave up.

Same girl who voted for Trump but doesn't admit it, spends more time facebooking than working, is caught up in an Arbonne pyramid scheme and keeps trying to have parties at my girlfriend's place, AND left for spin class today. What the hell is spin class? She's like a walking stereotype.

Also, if you couldn't tell, she frustrates me.
 
The various flagrantly anti-science nutrition stances are disproportionately practiced by people with left of center politics, which is... odd.

Maybe it's only because people on the conservative side of the spectrum are literally meat and potato kind of people.
 
Kinitari said:
So she thinks she is gluten intolerant, but then recently found pills that she can take before eating bread or pasta that makes it not upset her digestion. This isn't a real thing, it's a sugar pill and... Well it's a made up pill that she can only take because she made up her intolerance.
Click to expand...

I can't deal with people like this.
 
Calories don't matter as much as nutrition. If you are eating properly you won't be as hungry and are much less likely to over eat.

The 200 chips vs apples is an example of how you would never eat 25 slices of apples in a sitting but it's easy to eat way more than 8 chips.
 
I knew a guy who wouldn't eat off anything if he didn't understand how it was made.

Note I didn't say he wouldn't eat anything, I said he wouldn't eat off anything. He refused to eat off of plastic or ceramic plates because he couldn't understand what they were made of. He made his own plates and bowls out of wood he collected outside.
 
Kinitari said:
So she thinks she is gluten intolerant, but then recently found pills that she can take before eating bread or pasta that makes it not upset her digestion. This isn't a real thing, it's a sugar pill and... Well it's a made up pill that she can only take because she made up her intolerance.
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Technically this could be true. If it is a probiotic, the healthy bacteria will assist in digesting the food and ease an upset stomach. The problem is that she is only masking the problem and it is still taxing her system.
 
Everdred said:
Calories don't matter as much as nutrition. If you are eating properly you won't be as hungry and are much less likely to over eat.

The 200 chips vs apples is an example of how you would never eat 25 slices of apples in a sitting but it's easy to eat way more than 8 chips.
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... But you're saying calories are what matter here. It's just that apples have fewer calories.

How many dried dates can you eat in a sitting?

Everdred said:
Technically this could be true. If it is a probiotic, the healthy bacteria will assist in digesting the food and ease an upset stomach. The problem is that she is only masking the problem and it is still taxing her system.
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1. Homeopathic stuff doesn't do anything.

2. Probiotics aren't going to help you digest bread.

3. 99% of gluten intolerance stuff is nonsense
 
Nutrition/Dieting is prime real estate for all sorts of pseudoscience. It seems like many people can't distinguish what is scientifically true beyond the basics and what are superstitions masquerading as some sort of conventional wisdom, so they are more likely to believe in phony diet plans and the like. There is so much misinformation floating about and people just seem to add pick up false things and add it to their knowledge. Ask a group of people the best way to lose weight and you'll get many different answers.
 
Kinitari said:
... But you're saying calories are what matter here. It's just that apples have fewer calories.

How many dried dates can you eat in a sitting?



1. Homeopathic stuff doesn't do anything.

2. Probiotics aren't going to help you digest bread.

3. 99% of gluten intolerance stuff is nonsense
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Calories matter, yes. You just don't have to worry about them as much because you are naturally limiting them.

1. I agree. Never claimed they did.
2. Probiotics can very much ease digestive issues. It doesn't help you digest the bread but it does feed your intestines in a healthy way and you are less likely to get diarrhea or cramps from said bread.
3. I agree.
 
Barzul said:
Definitely heard the tap water contains carcinogens and I'm inclined to believe it has basis in reality.
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Breathing, going outside, moving, sitting, shitting, smelling, the simple act of living is a daily swim in an ocean of carcinogens....everything can cause cancer...doesnt mean it will.
 
The-Pyramid-Of-Nutrition-Priorities-F.png
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Though it was apparently made for bodybuilders(?), I always liked this pyramid as a better general encapsulation of "healthy eating" than most I've seen out there. Bottom three basically boil down to: 1) don't overeat; and 2) eat balanced (protein/fats/carbs and vitamins/minerals).

Meal timing/frequency is more relevant for those participating in athletic pursuits (e.g., weight lifting, sprinting, long distance cardio). I honestly think you could just remove it when speaking to the general population.

If you think about the "supplements" tip as also including concepts like organic, gluten free (for non-intolerant people), natural/unprocessed, it's what I find a lot of arm-chair health critics opining about. They seem to disproportionately focus on the marketing, buzzwords, and aspects of nutrition/diet that only yield that marginal 5-10% of extra benefit to already healthy diets (and even pseudoscience/unproved science, if you want to put that here). Much like the overweight person I ran into at my job's vending machine who was acting holier than thou for getting a full-sugar Coke because of how "bad for you" artificial sweeteners are.

8 (flavored tortilla or Potato chips) = 200 calories + 30 grams of fat + 70 grams of soduim

25 apple wedges = 200 calories
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I think you're point still stands, but your numbers seem generally off here. Double the number of chips (at least) and halve the fat grams. Two apples is ~200 calories (25 wedges would seem to be closer to 3 apples unless you are cutting extra thin slices). Sorry for being pedantic, but as someone who has a generally good grasp on the calories values of foods, those estimates immediately looked exaggerated to me.

psychowave said:
Where did the "alkaline food" thing even come from? My mom is all about that one and it drives me crazy.
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I don't know where it came from, but I'm going to just blame Tom Brady.
 
Most table salts use anti caking agent 554. Which isn't a well defined thing. But, most things falling under that label, include aluminum as a main component.

That's why some people are turning to less processed salts.

Another reason is that other salts taste different and can pair well with certain foods and even require less overall salt for good flavor.
 
Did you know that fetuses, with their pure nutrient diet, can develop cancer? In fact, countless cancer cells are being born in your body at every moment. It's just that your immune system is good as keeping it in check usually. Stop shitting your pants about it. And as long as not pursuing obvious behavior like smoking, you'll probably fall along the mean.
 
Most table salts use anti caking agent 554. Which isn't a well defined thing. But, most things falling under that label, include aluminum as a main component.

That's why some people are turning to less processed salts.

Another reason is that other salts taste different ( because they include other minerals) and can pair well with certain foods and even require less overall salt for good flavor. There are all claims that those extra minerals are beneficial.
 
Toki767 said:
Health fad has really gone up in recent years.

Not that that's a bad thing.
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It's only bad because people are so misinformed. They continue with fad diets and poor exercise regiments because they think it's healthy because they heard it was online.

When the reality is that someone on a balanced diet doing some simple calisthenics is generally going to end up healthier than someone on low-carb doing cross-fit.
 
I think the thrust of my point is that people seem to almost seem to discount the part of nutrition science that seems the clearest. Calories.

Even in the thread:

Everdred said:
Calories don't matter as much as nutrition. If you are eating properly you won't be as hungry and are much less likely to over eat.

The 200 chips vs apples is an example of how you would never eat 25 slices of apples in a sitting but it's easy to eat way more than 8 chips.
Click to expand...

You go on to say that calories do matter, but they can be managed by eating... I don't know, nutritiously? What does that even mean? I can take caloric information and maintain a healthy weight, not maintaining a healthy weight is probably one of the most detrimental health conditions in the developed world. But we spend so much energy and effort talking about nutrition?

What do you even mean when you say nutrition matters more? Is there an issue in the developed world with people lacking 'nutrition'? I honestly am trying to keep open minded here, maybe I'm just confused?
 
Look up culture-bound syndromes. Something like gluten intolerance may not be "real" in the sense that these people don't have coeliac disease or any medical reason for being gluten-intolerant, but the mind is a powerful thing, and they may actually be feeling symptoms of illness every time they eat gluten without their magic pill, just because of their beliefs and the culture they immerse themselves in. Here's a good article on it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...s-you-only-get-if-you-believe-in-them/479367/ (NSFW title about penises, no nsfw content)

I'm a calorie counter and that's all I need for my diet, in addition to making sure I don't get all of my calories from sugar or red meat or other things that have been shown to be harmful in high amounts. I don't buy into any fad diets. But I won't discount that they may be having real effects on people as far as their perception goes.
 
nutritional science is confusing to me. Basically, my ideal is to eat lots fruits and vegetables, leave out excess sugar (this is hard since sugar is added to everything) and fatty/greasy foods. I don't always stick to my ideals but breaking it down further seems to be a waste of time.
 
Kinitari said:
I think the thrust of my point is that people seem to almost seem to discount the part of nutrition science that seems the clearest. Calories.

Even in the thread:



You go on to say that calories do matter, but they can be managed by eating... I don't know, nutritiously? What does that even mean? I can take caloric information and maintain a healthy weight, not maintaining a healthy weight is probably one of the most detrimental health conditions in the developed world. But we spend so much energy and effort talking about nutrition?

What do you even mean when you say nutrition matters more? Is there an issue in the developed world with people lacking 'nutrition'? I honestly am trying to keep open minded here, maybe I'm just confused?
Click to expand...
Calories don't matter as much as nutrition just translates to eating healthy foods is more important than monitoring calories while eating shitty foods.
 
Kinitari said:
What do you even mean when you say nutrition matters more? Is there an issue in the developed world with people lacking 'nutrition'? I honestly am trying to keep open minded here, maybe I'm just confused?
Click to expand...

Calories only matter in regards to weight loss, gain, or management. You can't gauge "health" by calories. You can be a healthy weight and still be horribly unhealthy. You can also be slightly overweight and still be relatively very healthy.

People only tend to focus on the appearance of being healthy though. They care more about looking fit than actually being fit.

And people take advice for looking fit as advice for being healthy, even though those are actually two different things.
 
Everdred said:
Calories don't matter as much as nutrition just translates to eating healthy foods is more important than monitoring calories while eating shitty foods.
Click to expand...
How do I know if food is healthy?

ScatheZombie said:
Calories only matter in regards to weight loss, gain, or management. You can't gauge "health" by calories. You can be a healthy weight and still be horribly unhealthy. You can also be slightly overweight and still be relatively very healthy.

People only tend to focus on the appearance of being healthy though. They care more about looking fit than actually being fit.

And people take advice for looking fit as advice for being healthy, even though those are actually two different things.
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Help me out here, is there some sort of epidemic of people who are of healthy weight and are unhealthy (because of their diet)? Is it even somewhat in the same ballpark, solar system as people who are unhealthy because they are overweight? What does it even mean to be of a healthy weight but actually being unhealthy because of their diet... What does that look like?
 
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