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Sony announces its Q2 results

Elios83

Member
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

As a group Sony had a net income of 53.2 billion yen and raised its full year forecast to a net income of 110 billion yen (+24% from FY2003)
As for SCE and the gaming sector the quarter ended in a break even point,PS2 shipments were of 1,99 millions,down 6,79 millions from the same period last year (the shift to the new Pstwo is cited as a reason) but Sony raised its shipments target for the full year from 14 millions to 14,5 millions.
 

AniHawk

Member
In USD, 110 billion yen = $1,033,757,065.53

Pretty good for one quarter (separate statement from the line above).
 

Alcibiades

Member
according to Bloomberg radio they were up like 60%+ in revenue for the quarter... Sony's consumer electronics plunged, while the Spiderman 2 movie frenzy helped revenue... no mention of videogames, which I assume would mean that it held steady, with neither significant upswing or downswing either way, though I'm sure the pricecut helped sales...
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Breaking even on games this quarter , despite a price drop and increased software sales?
 

aaaaa0

Member
Some interesting stuff:

Page 1:

Second quarter, ended Sept 30, Overall Sales and Operating Revenue:

2003 1,797 billion yen (~16.8 billion US$)
2004 1,702 billion yen (~15.9 billion US$)

Change: -5.3%

This means that added all together, Sony's overall sales declined 5.3% compared with last year, same quarter.

Page F-1:

As far as revenue (sales) is concerned, by division:

Sony Electronics -2.5%
Sony Games -25.8%
Sony Music -41.5%
Sony Pictures +2.3%
Sony Finance -18.5%

That is not a picture of a company in great health.

Income (profit) has improved while revenue (sales) has declined in almost all Sony's business segments.

Increased operating income combined with decreased revenue is usually an indication that a company is getting profitable by cutting costs -- usually by doing some or all of the following: slowing down R&D, laying off workers, canceling products that don't make money, and finding ways to make their profitable products more cheaply.

Page F-4:

Sept 30, 2004, Consolidated Sales and Operating Revenue: 1,702,272 million yen
Sept 30, 2004, Operating income: 43,385 million yen

That means their profit margin is only 2.5%, pre-taxes. Not very healthy.

Page F-15:

ASSETS:

Cash and Cash Equivalents as of Sep 30 (consolidated):
2003 638,037 million yen (~5.9 billion US$)
2004 449,626 million yen (~4.2 billion US$)

This is the immediate cash available to Sony to fund operations.

You'll note in one year they've dropped about 1.7 billion of their cash reserve.

---

Basically Sony's in no danger of falling over, but until revenue growth starts going positive in the majority of their segments, and their profit margins get bigger, it is my opinion they're not doing that great. OK, but not great.
 

Elios83

Member
aaaaa0 said:
Some interesting stuff:

Page 1:

Second quarter, ended Sept 30, Overall Sales and Operating Revenue:

2003 1,797 billion yen (~16.8 billion US$)
2004 1,702 billion yen (~15.9 billion US$)

Change: -5.3%

This means that added all together, Sony's overall sales declined 5.3% compared with last year, same quarter.

Page F-1:

As far as revenue (sales) is concerned, by division:

Sony Electronics -2.5%
Sony Games -25.8%
Sony Music -41.5%
Sony Pictures +2.3%
Sony Finance -18.5%

That is not a picture of a company in great health.

Income (profit) has improved while revenue (sales) has declined in almost all Sony's business segments.

Increased operating income combined with decreased revenue is usually an indication that a company is getting profitable by cutting costs -- usually by doing some or all of the following: slowing down R&D, laying off workers, canceling products that don't make money, and finding ways to make their profitable products more cheaply.

Page F-4:

Sept 30, 2004, Consolidated Sales and Operating Revenue: 1,702,272 billion yen
Sept 30, 2004, Operating income: 43,385 billion yen

That means their profit margin is only 2.5%, pre-taxes. Not very healthy.

Page F-15:

ASSETS:

Cash and Cash Equivalents as of Sep 30 (consolidated):
2003 638,037 million yen (~5.9 billion US$)
2004 449,626 million yen (~4.2 billion US$)

This is the immediate cash available to Sony to fund operations.

You'll note in one year they've dropped about 1.7 billion of their cash reserve.

---

Basically Sony's in no danger of falling over, but until revenue growth starts going positive in the majority of their segments, and their profit margins get bigger, it is my opinion they're not doing that great. OK, but not great.


Revenues are really subject to change according to the market conditions,what Sony was urged to do is to increase their profit margin and it seems they are already obtaining good results on that.Plus they're on a restructuring plan ending in 2006.I think they're on right track,of course as you said we're not talking about great results today but things are going well.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"I assume heavy R&D with the PSP and PS3 has contributed to that."

it would seem that anything Semiconductor related has now been officially switched over to Electronics.
 

aaaaa0

Member
I actually made a mistake reading the release, while the cash reserve at Sony may have gone down, the short-term investment column went up a lot.

So the total cash that Sony has available is fine and is not actually going down at all.

It's also nice to see the long term debt entry going down.

Sony is doing OK. Not great, but OK.
 
PS2 WW Installed base
2004/09/30 74.00 million units (Japan: 17.89 million/ USA: 30.23 million/ Europe: 25.88 million)
Approximately 666 million units shipped WW

PSOne WW Installed base
2004/09/30 100.89 million units (Japan: 20.95million/ USA: 40.19 million/ Europe: 39.75 million)
Approximately 955 million software units shipped WW
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Breaking even on games this quarter , despite a price drop and increased software sales?
I would say the increased software sales (were they really increased?) have offsetted the price-cut. Price cut = less profit, at least untill they can make the units significantly cheaper.
 

Elios83

Member
Miburou said:
Was the PStwo really that necessary? It seems to have cost them 7M units in sales.

It was necessary,considering that the Pstwo costs really a few dollars to Sony to produce and so they can improve their margin and have space for future price cuts.
 
Marconelly said:
I would say the increased software sales (were they really increased?) have offsetted the price-cut. Price cut = less profit, at least untill they can make the units significantly cheaper.

Well, with 2 million PS2's shipped vs 6 million last year, this same quarter, combined with the price drop that's a significant reduction of revenue:

(not including bundle and assuming full retail as we don't really know wholesale)
6 Mill * $179 = $1,074,000,000
2 Mill * $149 = $298,000,000.00

which is a reduction of ~$774 million dollars in revenue. Assume a ~10% wholesale discount (which is way more than retailers get), and you still have a reduction of ~$700 million.

They only list LTD for the shipped software units so I can't tell how software shipments changed.
 
more.

Sony Profits Surge for Quarter
Thursday October 28, 8:09 am ET
By Yuri Kageyama, AP Business Writer
Electronics and Entertainment Giant Sony Profits Surge for Quarter Despite Shrinking Sales

TOKYO (AP) -- Sony Corp., the Japanese electronics and entertainment giant. said Thursday that its profit jumped 61.6 percent in the latest quarter on improved profitability in its mobile phone joint venture and gains in its movie business, led by "Spider-Man 2."

It raised its earnings forecast for the full year while lowering its sales projection.

Tokyo-based Sony reported a net group profit of 53.2 billion yen ($500 million; euro 393 million) for the July-September period, up from 32.9 billion yen in the same period a year ago.

But sales dropped 5.3 percent for the period to 1.702 trillion yen ($16 billion), from 1.797 trillion yen a year ago, on falling revenue from the company's electronics, video game and music businesses.

Sony raised its profit outlook for the full year ending March 31, 2005, to 110 billion yen ($1 billion), up 24 percent from fiscal 2003, and above its July forecast of 100 billion yen ($940 million).

But it lowered its sales projection to 7.35 trillion yen ($69 billion), down 2 percent from the previous year. Sony had earlier forecast sales of 7.55 trillion yen ($71 billion).

Profits during the quarter were boosted by Sony's music business, which returned to profitability after suffering a loss in the same period last year.

Sony's film business also posted strong profits thanks to strong revenue from the films "Spider-Man 2," "Hellboy" and "13 Going on 30," while pay television benefited from the popularity of "Bad Boys II" and "S.W.A.T."

Meanwhile, Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications, the mobile phone joint venture in which Sony is a partner, contributed 6.1 billion yen ($57 million) in income.

Profits for the quarter would have been greater if not for the strong yen. The U.S. dollar was worth about 110 yen during the period, down from 118 yen a year ago. A weak dollar hurts exporters like Sony by slashing the value of overseas profits when converted into yen.

Sony also took a 18.8 billion yen ($177 million) charge for restructuring.

Despite the higher full-year profit outlook, Sony said it continues to see problems in the electronics business in the months ahead.

Declining sales of PlayStation 2 video-game machines -- as well as price cuts in Japan, the United States and Europe, and an outsourcing of their production to Chinese companies -- hurt results, according to Sony.

Sony's sales of flat-panel and liquid-crystal display televisions and digital cameras were solid, but cathode-ray tube TV sales were down and portable audio devices fared poorly due to intensifying competition, Sony said in a statement.

Operating income was 27.4 billion yen ($257 million) in contrast to a loss of 4.6 billion yen a year ago.

For the first fiscal half, Sony recorded profit of 76.47 billion yen ($719 million), more than double the 34.05 billion yen for the same period a year ago. Sales edged down 3 percent to 3.31 trillion yen ($31 billion) from 3.41 trillion yen.

In August, Sony Music Entertainment and BMG, the music unit of the German media conglomerate Bertelsmann AG, closed a deal to combine, bringing together one of the most lucrative catalogs in popular music.

Sony also has an agreement with four consortium partners to purchase Hollywood studio Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc., or MGM, which has a library of 4,100 films, including "West Side Story," "Rocky" and "Rain Man."

Sony shares closed up 0.8 percent at 3,690 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange shortly before earnings were announced.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Declining sales of PlayStation 2 video-game machines -- as well as price cuts in Japan, the United States and Europe, and an outsourcing of their production to Chinese companies -- hurt results, according to Sony."

hold on - wonder how outsourcing production to chinese companies hurt results?
surely that's a cost cutting exercise?

Also , there doesn't seem to be much accounting on exactly how they end up flat.

If they took in 280 mill USD revenue on the PS2 (what percentage of that would we guess is profit?) , and they still had cash coming in off PS2 software (which increased) - where the hell has the profit gone???

they made zero profit off two million units at a reduced price and a quarter full of games / licensing revenue....

what is incuring those losses? The hardware ? something not disclosed?
 
Somebody hold on to these figures and compare them to the numbers that com Q3 and Q4 when PSP is supposed to come and that will solve how much it is really going to cost Sony.
 

Elios83

Member
BigGreenMat said:
Somebody hold on to these figures and compare them to the numbers that com Q3 and Q4 when PSP is supposed to come and that will solve how much it is really going to cost Sony.

Q3 is Sony's best quarter tipically,SCE will ship at least 6 million Pstwo (and on Pstwos they have a big margin) and with internal developed KA as GT4 and royalties on multi million titles as GTA:SA and MGS3 there's simply no way the gaming division won't post a profit in Q3,whatever is the loss on the 500k PSP they'll ship in Japan by the end of December.
Q4 instead is tipically a loss quarter for Sony,it simply offsets the huge profits made in Q3.
 

Elios83

Member
R&D for semiconductor (so I guess all R&D for PSP and PS3) has been trasferred in the electronics division,so it hurts that division not the gaming one.
I simply believe that the strong decrease in the number of the PS2 sold plus the low margin after the price cut on the last PS2 model (and thus the necessity of the Pstwo) led to this situation.
 

Datawhore

on the 15th floor
Most R&D for Semiconducter tech will be capitalized as an Asset, so it won't affect the income statement. Building a $2B fab plant isn't an expense.

Surely some associated % is expensed (wages etc.), but the kind of R&D going into PSP and PS3 cannot be solely responsible for their disappointing "break-even" results. If I remember correctly, their Games division lost money last quarter too.

74M installed base, industry leading position, and not making money 2 quarters in a row. Something is wrong with that picture.
 

MrSingh

Member
DCharlie said:
what is incuring those losses? The hardware ? something not disclosed?

My secret sources at SCEJ say all that money is going to Climax and 7th Heaven.



Oh, Sony Finance is getting pw0ned in Japan. GOOD! :p
 

MrSingh

Member
Datawhore said:
74M installed base, industry leading position, and not making money 2 quarters in a row. Something is wrong with that picture.

making money isn't important when you're no. 1!
 

Alcibiades

Member
what a bad time to really start losing marketshare to XBox and Halo 2 right around the corner (though they'll win October w/ GTA)...
 
Honestly that's really dissapointing for the PS2.

The way Sony's game business structure is they take losses on PS2 during the early years (2000/2001), but this period should be prime time for recouping revune. This time period should be precious for the PS2, this is what you make game machines for, the "peak" period (usually year 3 or year 4 of a console cycle). I just don't understand how they're not making money.

I thought they were making a profit off the PS2? And they should be raking in tons of 3rd party licensing fees (who else has a 75 million user base again?).

Personally I think in the next generation, hardware is not going to be profitable at all for anyone, especailly if the market becomes split (ala SNES-Genesis).

Sony's game division is almost gaurunteed now not to make a profit for the next two years because of the PSP and PS3 launches, so it's like the PS2 really only had a window between 2002-2003 to earn any profit.

I like the PSP a lot and I'm not complaining about the price (lol), but you have to wonder whether Sony's higher ups are so wooed by the success of the original Playstation that they're letting Kutaragi get reckless with spending.
 
efralope said:
what a bad time to really start losing marketshare to XBox and Halo 2 right around the corner (though they'll win October w/ GTA)...

They won't win October. There are no systems out there. GTA will sell like Gangbangers, I mean gangbusters :D, but I expect Xbox to outsell PS2 hardware yet again in October.
 
Didn't they just ship the new PSTwo model?

Why would there be a shortage?

Sales for PS2 should be up in October because of the new model and GTA: San Andreas.
 

jenov4

Member
sonycowboy said:
PSOne WW Installed base
2004/09/30 100.89 million units (Japan: 20.95million/ USA: 40.19 million/ Europe: 39.75 million)
Approximately 955 million software units shipped WW

They finally broke the 100 million mark! That's an insane amount of PS1's out there!
 
soundwave05 said:
Didn't they just ship the new PSTwo model?

Why would there be a shortage?

Sales for PS2 should be up in October because of the new model and GTA: San Andreas.

Relatively speaking, there's only been a trickle of new PS2's. I guess we should be happy, Japan and Europe still aren't selling them.
 
I dunno, Sony's business plan seems f-cked to me ...


2000: Heavy losses (PS2)
2001: Losses (PS2)
2002: Stabilzation/Some Profit (PS2)
2003: Profit (PS2)
2004: Profit Prime Time (PS2)
2005: Losses (PSP)
2006: Heavy Losses (PS3)

I dunno man, if they're not making a lot of money during that "middle stretch" there, that's got to be problematic.

The PSP I'm definitely buying but I don't think the attach rate is going to be that high either. For $40-$50 a game, I'm definitely going to be pretty selective in what software I do buy, and I don't think I'll be the only one.

I think basically the industry is going to become a situation where the hardware makers lose money so that the software makers have a userbase to put their product on. How long that can sustain itself is anyone's guess though.
 

akascream

Banned
I dunno how they plan on losing money on PSP hadware when 3rd party, handheld game sales are generally lower than console game sales. Maybe PSP is really cheap to make afterall.
 

Alcibiades

Member
if by "trickle" you mean as tons of them at major retailers, then yes, "trickle"...

I don't even get the Gamestop/EBgames shortage reports a couple of weeks ago, cause you could go to regular places and find them...
 
soundwave05 said:
I dunno, Sony's business plan seems f-cked to me ...


2000: Heavy losses (PS2)
2001: Losses (PS2)
2002: Stabilzation/Some Profit (PS2)
2003: Profit (PS2)
2004: Profit Prime Time (PS2)
2005: Losses (PSP)
2006: Heavy Losses (PS3)

I dunno man, if they're not making a lot of money during that "middle stretch" there, that's got to be problematic.

The PSP I'm definitely buying but I don't think the attach rate is going to be that high either. For $40-$50 a game, I'm definitely going to be pretty selective in what software I do buy, and I don't think I'll be the only one.

I think basically the industry is going to become a situation where the hardware makers lose money so that the software makers have a userbase to put their product on. How long that can sustain itself is anyone's guess though.


SCEI has only had 2 unprofitable quarters since 1996 (as far back as I can find) and they were always profitable for the year.
 
So they didn't lose any money building those fabs for the PS2?

I remember Kurtagi saying it would take two years or so to pay off the investment they made in the PS2, but after that they'd be profitable.

Also I don't understand how profit margins on the 4-year-old PS2 hardware are so low. Wasn't the point of building your components in-house to be able to leverage lower hardware prices and higher profits later on?

I think because of the "Sony Shock" stock collapse last year, Sony's investors are willing to let Kutaragi do whatever he wants.
 
efralope said:
if by "trickle" you mean as tons of them at major retailers, then yes, "trickle"...

I don't even get the Gamestop/EBgames shortage reports a couple of weeks ago, cause you could go to regular places and find them...

Well,

I can't find the damn thing at any retailers and I've checked alot. EB & Gamestop have gotten in extremely limited shipments and still have more people on the preorder list to get them. I'm sure it varies throughout regions, but they are by no means plentiful.

Of course, we'll see when NPD comes around. If NJ is just screwed regarding the hardware then maybe it will be a much better month than I'm expecting. I wouldn't mind that happening.
 

jarrod

Banned
akascream said:
I dunno how they plan on losing money on PSP hadware when 3rd party, handheld game sales are generally lower than console game sales. Maybe PSP is really cheap to make afterall.
I think it's definietly cheaper than some believe, but there's no doubt Sony's eating a heavy loss at 19800 yen. Probably around 10000-12000 yen per unit I'd imagine, which put it in line with initial PS2/Xbox losses.
 
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