Sony Pictures mad at Netflixs failure to block overseas VPN users
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RandyBobandy
Banned
It's insane really. Especially when a lot of people pay for vpns on top of the Netflix subscription
Shining Sunshine
Banned
It's like you didn't read the OP.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
It's a breach of contract. It couldn't be any simpler. It is likely a breach of the contract between Sony Pictures (and whoever else) and Netflix. And it is a breach of contract between the Namibian who as agreed for a sum of money to watch the content they are entitled to in Namibia who are now watching US content they have not contractually agreed to be entitled to.
I'm not saving it's a criminal offence, it's a civil one.
Exactly, I know a lot of people in the military overseas who use VPNs to access Netflix and Hulu
is this not region locking by another name? people are willing to pay money, but sony says no, not in your country.
Illegal usually refers to crime. It usually means a fucking law has been broken. Not that a civil contract may have been broken. By calling this illegal you are hurting your own side of the argument.
bodyboarder
Member
I liken the whole thing to this (just replace it with illegal downloading and then steaming from behind a proxy)
Media companies in general should be happy people are willing to not only pay for a legal service (location aside), and then jump through hoops (VPNs etc.) to use it. They then should do everything in their power to make it simpler, but they won't.
Consumers love stuff that is simple to use, not exactly a hard concept to grasp, one would think.
Media companies in general should be happy people are willing to not only pay for a legal service (location aside), and then jump through hoops (VPNs etc.) to use it. They then should do everything in their power to make it simpler, but they won't.
Consumers love stuff that is simple to use, not exactly a hard concept to grasp, one would think.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
As a lawyer I'm categorically telling you that your understanding of the word 'illegal' is wrong.
As a speaker of the English language I am telling you what people understand by the word and how it is used. It's nice that you are a lawyer though.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Well look just because 'people' (in which ever definition you might wish to put upon them) are wrong, it doesn't really make them right does it?
Ignorance isn't a defence.
People aren't willing to pay Sony the money, they're willing to pay Netflix their money. Netflix is the company who won't shell out for as many streaming rights in markets outside the United States.
Honestly, the best case scenario for everyone would be to untangle this mess of distribution rights and find a way, somewhere down the line, to have one universal Netflix.
And I realize that's complicated to the point of impossible.
EternalDarko
Member
Fuck this noise Sony. One of the best things about Netflix is that I can stream it worldwide.
As I travel abroad for a work a lot, it means that on many occasions I end up being in countries that do not officially have Netflix - but I'm a paying subscriber in the UK and am still able to access my UK version through a proxy service - a real saver for me else a lot of those workday nights would be pretty boring.
The other great thing is that as a Netflix subscriber, if I travel to a country that also has a local service, eg US, Canada etc. I'm able to log into that territories' service without having to pay a single penny more.
Now add both those together and you have everything you could ever ask for.
So I say again, fuck this noise.
As I travel abroad for a work a lot, it means that on many occasions I end up being in countries that do not officially have Netflix - but I'm a paying subscriber in the UK and am still able to access my UK version through a proxy service - a real saver for me else a lot of those workday nights would be pretty boring.
The other great thing is that as a Netflix subscriber, if I travel to a country that also has a local service, eg US, Canada etc. I'm able to log into that territories' service without having to pay a single penny more.
Now add both those together and you have everything you could ever ask for.
So I say again, fuck this noise.
English doesn't work like that.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/illegal
It may have a meaning for lawyers, but for normal people I would suggest it means a crime has been committed. Criminal court.
If you keep using it when people think it doesn't apply you are going to convince no one. You don't get to choose which definition everyone else in the world must adhere to.
I hate that 'literally' has become it's own antonym, but it doesn't man I'm going to win an argument by saying it's not right.
Edit: Look, I'm jsut saying by calling using a vpn illegal you will be saying to most people that it is a crime of some kind.
Sony would rather you pirate than Netflix make money from you to view Sony's content in a region Netflix isn't paying the rights for.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
It primarily says forbidden by law, that strengthens my point as it is the definition I gave. You're concentrating on an addendum which merely acknowledges that some people think it refers to a criminal offence.
Notwithstanding this I don't see how this definition argument vitiates my original point.
Marty Chinn
Member
Yes. Why would Sony want Netflix to gain money when they don't? They'd rather have you pirate than let Netflix take all the money. Sony doesn't get money either way. The difference is Netflix does.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
So they can take advantage of globalization but we can't?
Still a stupid thing for Sony to say
Because people don't work like lawyers expect them to. I am trying to tell you how people think, not what the fucking technical definition is. Human perception is important to consider when trying top convince people of something. But hey, if you don't give a fuck about people actually being convinced, continue to tell people that they are acting illegally for using a vpn, see how far that gets you.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Just disappear already sony
Sony's ire is directed at Netflix, not you.
Marty Chinn
Member
They haven't said it publicly. They are telling Netflix to take reasonable steps to distribute the content in the region they've paid for our pay more for worldwide rights. Netflix is the one taking advantage of the situation and reaping the benefits for the short term. If Netflix doesn't act on reasonable good faith you can bet Sony is going to change the terms when it comes to renewing and that won't be in Netflix's favor.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Why is everyone getting mad at Sony?
When you pay your $10 to netflix, part of that is used to pay the studios for licensing their IP. Netflix negotiated a deal for the US region. So if you live outside of the US, netflix keeps all your subscription and doesnt pay the studios. Netflix is the one that is acting in bad faith here.
When you pay your $10 to netflix, part of that is used to pay the studios for licensing their IP. Netflix negotiated a deal for the US region. So if you live outside of the US, netflix keeps all your subscription and doesnt pay the studios. Netflix is the one that is acting in bad faith here.
EternalDarko
Member
Actually it's directed at both Netfix and customers who choose to take advantage of Netflix's ability to subsribe to the service even if it isn't officially available in the customers' region, thereby shutting out Netflix from that additional revenue and the customer from the content.
What does Sony think they would actually achieve by pushing for this though? If the customer is savvy enough to figure this little trick out, then I'm sure they'd much rather stream/download the content in other ways or not at all.
Not sure what Sony is aiming to gain from this, unless they have a competing world-wide service to take it's place.
I'm sure Netflix has an international roll-out plan and things will fall into line in time with appropriate content rights being worked out with additional regions being rolled out - but outside of this, they would just be cutting those customers out fully with no other choice.
Showmethereceipts.gif
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
There's a big difference between doing something illegal and being taken to court for it. People do illegal things nearly every day without repercussion.
I couldn't give a fuck about the legal liability of these people personally, I was saying that Sony Pictures are entitled to be so. Just because people don't understand their actions are illegal, it doesn't make it all right in the eyes of the law.
As I originally said, Sony Pictures are likely also breaching their contract between them and Netflix. A good example of the above is that Netflix haven't taken Sony Pictures to court, as they're trying to work a commercial solution rather than legal. Part of that is letting Netflix know their actions are illegal and that they can pull out of the contract of providing them with the content since Netflix have apparently breached it.
BlitzerRadic
Member
What does sony want? Sony wants to get paid, which they aren't.
Based on what is in the OP, seems to me that Sony would like Netflix to pretend to care about the situation. I don't think that's unreasonable let alone unrealistic.
RandyBobandy
Banned
Then they need to make their content available to countries outside of US then. Then again, I don't even use US Netflix to watch any Sony content so I'm good.
Marty Chinn
Member
This. Sony doesn't expect that Netflix can stop everyone. They just want Netflix to not turn a blind eye.
soundahfekz
Member
Are you surprised at all?
It's like bugs being zapped by a UV light one after another
Tough shit. Don't sign a contract if you weren't happy how they were handling the VPN situation.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
They will have surely entered in to the contract expecting and explicitly stating that Netflix must abide by the terms of the territorial IP license.
This whole 'well they should've realised Netflix are shit at stopping people using VPN' thing is sophomoric at the very best.
Ok, young ideologues:
If you're going to ask for the system to be dismantled, at least understand how the system works and how the system got the way it is.
I personally don't like how international streaming rights work, but I at least know why it is the way it is and how much of challenge it will be to change.
If you're going to ask for the system to be dismantled, at least understand how the system works and how the system got the way it is.
I personally don't like how international streaming rights work, but I at least know why it is the way it is and how much of challenge it will be to change.
BlitzerRadic
Member
So that gives netflix the right to make money off of sony's content that it didnt pay for?
Marty Chinn
Member
Sony thinks Netflix is in breach of contract. So they thought the terms were fine at the time. Plus this is a problem that grew after the contract. Either way it doesn't matter. If Netflix doesn't address the issue, Sony will with either higher fees, less favorable terms, or pull the content all together. That will affect everyone sooner or later.
This is based on the OP.
It says Sony was negotiating the deal for Breaking Bad. And they felt Netflix wasn't doing enough to stop VPNers. Don't get in bed with Netflix at this point if you don't like how they are handling things.
jts
...hate me...
If Sony doesn't get money from worldwide Netflix users, how will they get from local US Netflix growth?
Let's say Netflix streams to 5 million US users. The following year that's 10. And Sony will not get more money? Okay. It's a model completely based on potential market alone and Sony will net get a cent more if Netflix gets a 100% penetration rate in american households.
I am not buying that shit.
If the answer to this is that the growth is factored into re-negotiations then what's the big deal? Treat it the fucking same. Fake US members, real US members, all pay the same freaking 8 or whatever USD monthly. Have x number of members, expect y growth, pay accordingly. Or change the model for per-view or per-user. This is beyond dumb, and it boils down to corporate bullshit.
Truth is, Sony, and other content providers of course, want that much sweeter ASP that usually comes from overseas.
This is the same company that closed down Lik-Sang for selling Japanese PSPs, after all. Or if you catch feelings about that, this is the same world in which such happenings occur.
Let's say Netflix streams to 5 million US users. The following year that's 10. And Sony will not get more money? Okay. It's a model completely based on potential market alone and Sony will net get a cent more if Netflix gets a 100% penetration rate in american households.
I am not buying that shit.
If the answer to this is that the growth is factored into re-negotiations then what's the big deal? Treat it the fucking same. Fake US members, real US members, all pay the same freaking 8 or whatever USD monthly. Have x number of members, expect y growth, pay accordingly. Or change the model for per-view or per-user. This is beyond dumb, and it boils down to corporate bullshit.
Truth is, Sony, and other content providers of course, want that much sweeter ASP that usually comes from overseas.
This is the same company that closed down Lik-Sang for selling Japanese PSPs, after all. Or if you catch feelings about that, this is the same world in which such happenings occur.
I'm not even sure what you're asking me to prove.
Netflix pays on a case by case basis for streaming rights. It's more complicated in other markets because production companies sell foreign distribution rights. Netflix has to deal with the existing rights-holders as well as the original owner.
This is the "excuse" for the pitiful state of non-US versions of Netflix. It's absolutely about what Netflix is willing to pursue or pay for.
Mr. Mister
Member
Are people being intentionally dense? Sony (and other content creators) are upset because it effects their negotions with liscensors in these regions.
Be mad at netflix for not giving enough of a shit about your country to give paying customers in that country a quality experience.
Be mad at netflix for not giving enough of a shit about your country to give paying customers in that country a quality experience.
I'm many countries Netflix CAN'T offer a quality experience because everything is tied up in exclusivity deals. Even if they wanted to pay for distribution rights they couldn't.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Indeed. BSkyB have almost all the decent film rights tied up, but on the bright side Netflix and Amazon have provided the first legitimate rival to Sky's monopoly in some time. The more people leave Sky for other services, the better it'll be for the British consumer.
Lik-Sang fell into trouble with Sony over the PS3, not the psp.
Mr. Mister
Member
If they thought it was worth it they would. Money can overcome nearly any deal. Netflix just runs the P&L for your country and deems you not worth the time, effort, or money.
Netflix took advantage of you so if it does actually get stopped (highly doubtful) they are the ones to blame.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
They've most assuredly brought it up as leverage (don't take what has been said in commercial negotiation at face value). Doing things like saying you'll pull the deal or pull your other content if Netflix doesn't sort their shit out is a good way of securing a more advantageous deal. As I said to Dead Man, most companies would rather use threats of repudiation to secure better future deals than take breach of contract to court and burn commercial bridges.
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