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[Blackace]

Ok sports fans are Dynasties good? This is a question I have been kicking around in my head for quite some time. I am a huge fan of the major 3 team sports in the US (sorry hockey fans) and all of them have different salary cap situations. As a Seattle native I understand what it feels like to have a truly shitty sports team for prolonged periods of time. But with that being said, I kind of enjoy Dynasties… For example I was a much bigger football when the 49ers and later yet Dallas were the NFL’s version of the evil empire; not because I was a fan of their team but because I loved to see them lose. And would baseball be the same if the Yankees weren’t spending tons of money every year? Even though free agency has changed the face of three sports quite a lot, I still see baseball as being the most consistent of the three in terms of players taking root and staying on a team, becoming the face and identity of a city.

I just think it is an interesting question, I mean with the whole NBA now playing musical teams. I was just thinking what happened to the days of a good old dynasty, now that the Lakers have officially broken up. So what do y’all think?

 

[DJ_Tet]

Dynasties are good for fans of that particular franchise obviously. They are bad for fans of the sport.

Ir's really that simple. Bob Johnson didn't give NBA Owners $300 million to watch the Lakers win the next 5 championships. On the other hand, Laker fans didn't buy season tix to watch their team finish 7th in the West the next 5 seasons.

As a Bobcat fan I say tough shit. I'd LOVE to know what it's like to win a championship. If you are a Laker fan, hopefully you've experienced 3 of them. If you are a true fan, you've seen 8 championships since 1980.

 

[Blackace]

I know, but looking the NFL as a prime example of a sport that has all but taken Dynasties out of the game. It is great that a team in the basement last year can win the Superbowl the next year, but it also sucks that you almost don't know who is on what team as they have to cut older players in order to work under the cap.

 

[DJ_Tet]

The NFL is the only league that can cut older players without penalty. The NBA and NHL and MLB have no such luxury. To compare the NFL to any other sport in such regard is ludicrous. You can't say "Well the NFL can do this and that without penalty" and then wish that other sports can do the same thing. The penalty in the NFL is that veterans get the raw end of the deal (as per your post) and that the NFL can rebuild in one good year.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Fifty]

We love Dynasties when we look back on the past, but not in the present day. I believe they're great as ways to remember what the sport used to offer, and to capsulate an era. But they're not good for parity, and parity is what drives you to tune in week after week. This is all IMO, but ya gotta believe something

 

[Blackace]

The NFL is the only league that can cut older players without penalty. The NBA and NHL and MLB have no such luxury. To compare the NFL to any other sport in such regard is ludicrous. You can't say "Well the NFL can do this and that without penalty" and then wish that other sports can do the same thing. The penalty in the NFL is that veterans get the raw end of the deal (as per your post) and that the NFL can rebuild in one good year.

Apples and oranges.

not really... (and I am not wishing for it.. I lost a lot of intrest in the NFL once the hard cap came into play)

Baseball has no real cap, so Dynasties can be born.

Basketball has a cap, but a soft one. So Dynasties can be created but it is a lot harder.

And Football has a hard cap so no Dynasties for you!

So I am asking are they good... do you think basebal would be better without them or Football would be better with them?

 

[DJ_Tet]

As a Carolina Panther fan, you're asking the wrong guy. I think it's best when anyone can make the dance. I hate how the Hornets had to cut/trade good players just to stay under the cap.

I also see the point that good teams do a good job understanding the difference between good and horrible players out for a contract. Baseball does a decent job of this, especially recently. Better than basketball for sure.

The model for fair play is still the NFL though. Live up to your contract and there is no problem, once you fall below that however, you run the risk of being unemployed. As a fan, it's the best system going.

 

[Blackace]

We love Dynasties when we look back on the past, but not in the present day. I believe they're great as ways to remember what the sport used to offer, and to capsulate an era. But they're not good for parity, and parity is what drives you to tune in week after week. This is all IMO, but ya gotta believe something

Well of course they are not good parity. But Baseball has proved that bad teams can get good... over time... And it is always nice to have a "bad guy" like the Yankees... you Love them or you Hate them... there really isn't much middle ground there.

 

[Blackace]

The model for fair play is still the NFL though. Live up to your contract and there is no problem, once you fall below that however, you run the risk of being unemployed. As a fan, it's the best system going.

Well not always true, how many times have you seen a team cut a player because of the cap and the next year he has a monster year.

 

[DJ_Tet]

Well not always true, how many times have you seen a team cut a player because of the cap and the next year he has a monster year.

Not often in the NFL. I've seen the opposite MUCH more often, although that may be just my team of choice (Chuck Smith, Reggie White, and Eric Swann all in the same year).


The lack of dominant team has not hurt the NFL in the past half-decade. I don't really see your argument.

 

[Blackace]

Not often in the NFL. I've seen the opposite MUCH more often, although that may be just my team of choice (Chuck Smith, Reggie White, and Eric Swann all in the same year).


The lack of dominant team has not hurt the NFL in the past half-decade. I don't really see your argument.

Not an argument just a question... I happen to like Dynasties... maybe it is because there were so many in all the sports when I was kid... but for whatever the reason I tend to be drawn more to Basketball and Baseball these days... While I still enjoy football a lot.. I feel that it has lost a lot of its identity it once had from the 80s and early 90s...

 

[ZootedGranny]

Despite what people say about the NFL's salary cap structure, you can still have dynasties. Look at the Patriots for example. Their 9-7 season in between their two Super Bowls wasn't because of the salary cap, but the effect of inconsistent defense that couldn't stop the run. And even with that they barely missed the playoffs.

As far as the reasons players get cut, money is a factor, but its moreso talent. Veterans aren't getting the hook because they cost too much money, its that their money and talent level aren't equal to a younger guys. There's older guys out there that still perform at a high level and making a bunch of money.

That's not to say that the NFL's cap doesn't need a little work. I think it could borrow from the NBA a little, and bring in a modified Larry Bird provision, so that teams could keep players they've brought up in their franchise. They already have a rule that allows teams to sign players for the vet minimum and have it cost much less against the cap, but they should extend it to players brought up in the organization, looking for maybe their 2nd or 3rd contract.

Teams are just mortgaging the future and signing free agents, instead of scouting and drafting well. Big name free agents frequently disappoint, and usually aren't the reason a team does well. Its drafting well, and getting the most out of your players that you can.

I'm not a big fan of dynasties, I think the only good thing you can get out of it is rooting against the evil empire and hope they fail. Then again, being a Chiefs and Royals fan, I've never known what a hometown dynasty felt like, so who knows?

 

[DJ_Tet]

I guess. I'm 28 so I don't know how much older you were as a kid, but I remember the Cowboys and the Niners et al. I don't know how you could enjoy that time period more than you enjoy baseball today. I won't put basketball in the same perspective since the dynasties (Lakers/Bulls) were built on one player (O'Neal/Jordan). The baseball dynasties (Yankees) had much more in common with the football dynasties (Cowboys/Niners) than with the basketball dynasties.

I really don't see what you are getting at. Do you wish that football teams that sign over-the-hill players were stuck with the contracts like in other sports? I can't see what a fan of baseball/hockey/basketball can like as far as team management over football.

In football, if your team makes a bad signing, they can rebound far quicker than in other sports. Hell, dynasties only last so long. At least in football, if you've got a smart front office, your team can compete long term easier and without dicking over other teams. I guess I just don't see what you are getting at, and basketball is my favorite sport. Go Pistons for bucking the dynasty trend.

 

[Blackace]

I guess. I'm 28 so I don't know how much older you were as a kid, but I remember the Cowboys and the Niners et al. I don't know how you could enjoy that time period more than you enjoy baseball today. I won't put basketball in the same perspective since the dynasties (Lakers/Bulls) were built on one player (O'Neal/Jordan). The baseball dynasties (Yankees) had much more in common with the football dynasties (Cowboys/Niners) than with the basketball dynasties.

I really don't see what you are getting at. Do you wish that football teams that sign over-the-hill players were stuck with the contracts like in other sports? I can't see what a fan of baseball/hockey/basketball can like as far as team management over football.

In football, if your team makes a bad signing, they can rebound far quicker than in other sports. Hell, dynasties only last so long. At least in football, if you've got a smart front office, your team can compete long term easier and without dicking over other teams. I guess I just don't see what you are getting at, and basketball is my favorite sport. Go Pistons for bucking the dynasty trend.

We are pretty much the same age.... And of course the dynasties in Basketball were a bit differnt because it only takes 2 (Not counting Showtime) and role players to make a dynasty. (Kobe/O'Neal, Jordan/Pippen) But with Baseball if you get stuck with a bad contract there is nothing stopping your team from signing another player next year if the owner wants to win. And as for football, just knowing the teams from year to year was what made it better for me. But I'm not really trying to say Football is better than... or Basketball is better than... just I wanted to know how people felt about Dynasties in Sports....