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Spring 2011 Anime Thread PART TWO return of sex hair, ghosts, and ZAWA
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Miri said:
Technical aspects in cinema are more than just "the visuals"; technical aspects in cinema are how everything comes together. The value of storytelling isn't in the "story" but rather in the "telling". The quality of a movie it's determined by how it delivers its story, not by the story it is telling. There are hundreds, no: thousands, of movies that are nothing but adaptations: they bring nothing new to the table in terms of themes or characters... are they less valuable than movies with original scripts? Of course not. The value of the movie isn't in the ideas, the value of the movie is in how it turns its ideas into a genuinely engrossing experience. I'm not saying that you should discount "plot", by the way, I'm saying that you should discount "concept"; completely different things.
Miri said:
Does it really matter the they're doppelgangers if they're delivering entretaining, exciting or heartfelt works? Are Shakespeare works less valuable just because he didn't came up with stories but rather just turned already existing folk tales into theatrical plays? Is Mushishi a less worthwhile show just because the studio took "the easy way out" by adaptating a best-selling, award-winning manga?
Miri said:
Feeling has more to do with technical merit and execution than it does with concept. What makes a Pollock different from any random set of scribbles? Its visual quality and the expertise of its execution. The value of art isn't in its message, the value of art is in the expression of the message. Of course the message isn't irrelevant, but what makes a piece of art standout is how well delievered the message is.
Miri said:
Why don't you just say that you want anime to appeal to you and only to you instead of trying to rationalize your disdain for certain works with broken logic? I would respect that a lot more.
Miri said:
What you're doing is basically judging storytelling by its most basic premise. Not even judging storytelling for the story rather than for the telling, just straight judging it by its premise.
Steins gate 13
she's used to calling him okabe-kun not his full name, the rest i have no clue.
[/QUOTE]
After seeing his best friend die, okabe can't think straight anymore, his trying to save mayuri all by himself, what he should be doing is asking his friends for help.
Jexhius said:
I think that pre-historic vision was of another world line where okarin went back millions of years for some reason and mayushi went after him looking for her okarin.
they have the lab buged plus shining finger is lab member who knows about the time travel hyjinx
she's used to calling him okabe-kun not his full name, the rest i have no clue.
Why does the universe hate Charlie Mayushi?
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Aria the Animation 11
This show makes even an overcast sky look beautiful.
I don't understand why Athena didn't become a singer instead of an Undine. It's nice having a great voice, but as a customer that wouldn't make up for a lousy tour guide and pilot. Hopefully she's at least competent at those things now.
This show makes even an overcast sky look beautiful.
I don't understand why Athena didn't become a singer instead of an Undine. It's nice having a great voice, but as a customer that wouldn't make up for a lousy tour guide and pilot. Hopefully she's at least competent at those things now.
Holy crap! You just made my day. Loved Drrr. Shizuo is one of the coolest anime characters since Spike and Mugen. Izaya is pretty bad-ass too even though I loathe the annoying, omnipotent, tactician anime trope he represents.Izayoi said:
Maybe I'll do a re-watch and include these bits I missed.
Izayoi said:
what the show should have been about,I liked the show but it pissed me off how they have all these awesome character like headless rider,izaya,shizu,simon,van crew but then they decide to make the main focus, theys whiny highschool kids....fuck you anime for more fucking whiny high school kids.
well at least the other character had quite bit of time spent on them.
Jex
Member
Vampire Princess Miyu 25
So there's going to be a happy ending, right guys?
What's this show got against birds?
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I see that there's a preview for that new Last Exile show out there, in the either. I would tell you about it but I don't care about Last Exile and so I haven't watched the PV.
So there's going to be a happy ending, right guys?
What's this show got against birds?
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I see that there's a preview for that new Last Exile show out there, in the either. I would tell you about it but I don't care about Last Exile and so I haven't watched the PV.
Deadly said:
xemumanic said:
Decado said:
http://reversethieves.com/2011/06/15/animenext-2011-production-i-g/
7Th said:
First of all, you seem to be stuck on adaptations, when I said nothing about them. But to get it out of the way, no, I don't believe straight adaptations are as valuable as orignal works, in any medium. They build upon the base concept that's been established rather then take the risk in trying to establish a base concept of their own. Which is my whole argument, true, but much much smaller in scale when speaking against the idea of adaptations. They're not inherently bad because they are adaptations, because like you say; they can be beautifully executed. They just can't be as great as equally well executed original works. Especially, if they're adaptations, with currently abused core concepts, chosen to saturate an already saturated market.
And to discount the 'story' & concept from story-telling, is again, straight up idiotic. For example, when scouting for a literary agent, you have to write them a query letter that includes an elevator pitch of your core concept, and at times, the first few pages of your work. They wouldn't be contacting you off of the back of every nuance in your execution, no, because it couldn't be judged from that from those few lines alone. They would, however, contact you because your core concept seemed strong and marketable, and they're beginning to trust that that you could execute it well. This elevator-pitch applies to everything.
I agree in saying that execution is a fundamental part of the end package, you cannot, however, discount the very core of an art because it's convenient for your argument.
Yeah, to me it does. Ideas can saturate and stale, youre not seeming to grasp that. I dont like what Ive read of Shakespeare, so I havent read enough of him to say anything on that. And as for the artistic merit in Mushishi, I went over that in the block above.
All art begins with a concept, an idea. The very value in art is subjective as hell, definitely, but to say that it begins with the strength of that concept is not. How strong that concept needs to be to satisfy, and what constitutes strength, are the factors that differ from person to person.
And as for the rest of your post, refer to the analogy I gave again.
Im not going to say that, because thats hardly the case. Im no fucking hipster, and my logic isnt broken, just because want to think it is. I want the things I enjoy to be enjoyed by everyone, as I like having as many people as I can to talk about them with. Its no secret that I dont enjoy the current popular formula of anime. I did at one point, but this same 4koma, girl power concept has long staled. I, myself, would like to see something else at this point.
Because each story starts from the seed that is its basic premise.
Jex
Member
Vampire Princess Miyu TV 26
That was definitely an ending. Things came to a head, a crescendo, if you will. As with a typical Miyu episode there were talky-bits and action bits. Except that the talky bits where far stranger than usual and the action sequences looked like they were from a completely different show.
I guess that's because they basically were. A lot of people worked on this episode and you can certainly see the impressions of many hands leaving their own distinct fingerprints. Take this show for instance, which looks like I pulled it out of Gurren Lagann or something:
But you know what, that's awesome. Especially because it meant that Larva could
and while Miyu isn't really about such things it was cool to see in such a cool manner.
They really played up the whole
thing to it's logical conclusion. Where
What does this all mean? Just that there are different ways of approaching a similar condition.
That was definitely an ending. Things came to a head, a crescendo, if you will. As with a typical Miyu episode there were talky-bits and action bits. Except that the talky bits where far stranger than usual and the action sequences looked like they were from a completely different show.
I guess that's because they basically were. A lot of people worked on this episode and you can certainly see the impressions of many hands leaving their own distinct fingerprints. Take this show for instance, which looks like I pulled it out of Gurren Lagann or something:
But you know what, that's awesome. Especially because it meant that Larva could
have a totally sweet fight coupled with a totally awesome reveal
They really played up the whole
Chisato is a mirror of Miyu
Chisato is talkative and extrovert, Miyu is quiet and introvert. Where Miyu sides with light, Chisato chooses darkness. Where Miyu laments that she can never grow up Chisato celebrates it. Of course, you can't be opposites without having some similarities! So both characters drain their targets and both hatched from eggs.
Miri said:
Why? The quality of the execution can be clearly defined: you can detail why a story is tightly paced, you can analyze what makes animation effective, you can clearly note how is the atmosphere enhancing determined scene, etcetera. "Originality", on the other hand, doesn't tell us anything about the actual quality of the work.
Miri said:
Are we talking about marketability or about actual merits? Because, like I said, a concept isn't interesting/engaging/entretaining by itself. You can actually write a detailed analysis about the merits of the execution of a work, but you can't write anything but your personal opinion about the quality of a concept.
Miri said:
Concept influences your personal enjoyment, sure, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual value or worth of a work...
Miri said:
...hey! Good to see that you agree with me.
Miri said:
That's exactly what I said, you know.
7Th said:
And all of that's true...I haven't been arguing against that, 7Th. I'm saying that being as 'original' in concept as you can possibly be, is a benefit on top of a well-execution. I'm also saying that, a work can still be great even if it isn't wholly original within the context of its current time, it just won't be remembered as fondly as something that was executed beautifully, and unabashedly orignal (Again, within the context of its current time)
Marketability is an actual merit. A concept can intrigue all on its lonesome, because the whole point of a pitch is to filter your intended execution into a few lines at most--a concept.
They are the same thing. They cannot be disconnected. And a concept can stale, if used far to frequently within a relatively small span of time. Which, in my opinion, diminishes the value of a work.
Refer to the block above.
refer to the block above the one above this.
It wasn't. You said "you and only you" which is you trying to sum my whole argument up into " I only want to see what I like" Which would be fabulous, for damn sure, but is hardly my point.
I may not even like what people put out when they take risks, but I would give them a ton of credit for taking that risk. I don't dislike all that's being done now, I've just grown a bit tired of it.
Miri said:
How do the quality and merits of the work "improve" by being original?
Miri said:
Marketability isn't an artistic merit, though. And how intriguing you find a concept is completely subjective; like I said, you can't write anything other than your feelings about an undeveloped concept, which, quite honestly, doesn't make for a very objective measurement of value.
Miri said:
How do the quality and meritis of a work suffer for its concept? Your own personal enjoyment of a work may suffer, but that is something completely different from the quality and its merits.
Yeah, that kind of bugged me about Izaya as well. At least he was more eccentric than most characters who fall under that trope.Dali said:
Maybe, if there's ever a season two, there's hope for them maturing at least a little and/or the focus being taken away from them.Cwarrior said:
Eh... They've done a fantastic job with Gosick, but after the trainwreck with DtB I have little faith in them delivering a good original anime. Maybe they can pull themselves together.faridmon said:
7Th said:
...By standing out from the saturated pool that is everything else, 7Th. That, I believe, is an improvement.
Marketability isn't an artistic merit, true. Originality, and enjoyment, in concept is subjective, that's also true. What is also true is that there are times when things have become blatantly unoriginal. This, in my opinion, is one of those times.
That refers back to my mention of works being connected at the face.
I see the wishy-washy route you're reaching for.
I answered this, with that exact quote you chose. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Miri said:
You still aren't explaining how "originality" says anything about the quality of the work itself; you're talking about how the work relates to other works, which isn't particularly relevant in an assessment of quality, not about what the work has to say for itself.
Miri said:
But, like I said, saying that a work being blatantly unoriginal doesn't tell me anything about the quality of the work.
Miri said:
You didn't answer anything. You made a completely subjective judgement. You can't expect me to take that as a valid argument.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Trojita said:
Again wow, Eva 2.22 was on the lightning deal just last week too. Awesome.
7Th said:
If it's blatantly unoriginal in concept, I don't need to think it's a masterpiece, which says plenty about my thoughts on the quality of the work. That doesn't mean that I believe there is no merit to be had. That doesn't mean I can't still enjoy it. That doesn't mean you can't think it's a masterpiece. This, again, isn't a critique on your tastes.
Another circle... Blatantly unoriginal for the times=obviously derivative= shoddy in my book, remember?
And there it is. Art is purely subjective, form of expression whose value cannot be objectified. You could write a detailed analysis on the technical aspects of a production's execution, noting only what's done with no self-insertment, and I'd agree; that's certainty.
Which wouldn't be certain, however, is how 'good' that production is. You could claim that it is and the current consensus may even then appear to agree with you, leading you to believe your stance of execution=all is one of objectivity. But that's not the case, at all, and unless you say anything more than, "Mine is certain and good, because I can write a detailed, boring, analysis on it, and everybody agrees with me!" Your stance, in all reality, will be as shallow, wrong, and meaningless, as ever. An argument worse than the guy who just walks up and loudly calls your work a piece of shit, just cause he can. At least he wouldn't be pretending. No stance is certain when in relation to the value of an art.
So let's not continue down that laughable road, 7Th. Of course, I am arguing a subjective, idealist, stance. And so are you. It's the only kind of argument that can be formed.
Crash Station
Member
Dororon Enma-kun Meramera
......................
Well that was quite the finale. I feel like I shouldn't be surprised it ended in a
considering the series, but still, wtf.
Anyway, this was a great series. Sometimes the crude jokes were a bit much even for me, but I guess that's par for the course with Go Nagai.
......................
Well that was quite the finale. I feel like I shouldn't be surprised it ended in a
giant orgy
Anyway, this was a great series. Sometimes the crude jokes were a bit much even for me, but I guess that's par for the course with Go Nagai.
Miri said:
I'm not even arguing for my TASTES; I'm arguing for the idea that there is something such as a measurement of quality in entretainment. Quality in a work of art is something that exists thanks to the merits of its execution, not of its concept.
Miri said:
But why should I care about YOUR book? Like I said, this argument isn't about if YOU are able to enjoy a show or not.
Miri said:
The word "good" didn't once came up in this discussion. We're talking about a measurement of quality. And I don't personally believe REAL objectivity exists, but a more logically sound and expertly elaborated statement will be more valuable than an statement that has nothing but the statement to it. I'm not even talking about a consensus. I didn't once claimed that "many makes right", so I don't even know where that stupid strawman came from. I'm talking about the justification of a point of view. You can't be seriously arguing that a well-developed point of view that is supported by a through analysis has as much value as an uninformed point of view with nothing backing it up. The enjoyment of art is subjective, but enjoyment doesn't make quality.
Unknown Soldier
Member
A Black Falcon said:
Nope.
BLOOD, DARKNESS, COME TO ME!!
You weren't the only one watching it, I've watched it (I still have to watch 13 though) and A Black Falcon has watched some of it as well.X-Frame said:
I've enjoyed all the previous 12 episodes so I expect the last one to be as stupidly amusing as the rest, once I get around to it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Jintor said:
You have no idea the level of fanservice, zombies, and general awesomeness you are in for. The first episode was just a taste of the towering monument to human civilization that is Highschool of the Dead!!
It was released on Blu-ray disc in North America yesterday, and the usual Internet sources have already confirmed it is a true HD source, not an upconvert like the broadcasts were. You will be able to experience HD tits! HD zombies! HD Matrix Boobs! HD "I'm WET!"
Idolmaster: Xenoglossia 2 -
Imagine the most moe series ever, and turn it into a mecha anime mashup, and the result is indeed I.X. If KyoAni thinks they can make K-ON into a mecha anime and surpass I.X., they have their work cut out for them. This assumes they are thinking anything of the sort. I would support them if they did, but still. It doesn't hurt that the general setting and concept of I.X. is almost a blatant carbon-copy of Evangelion. Sunrise doesn't fuck around, they knew that if they were going to use this thing as some kind of vehicle for mashing up The Idolmaster and their trademark mecha series, they would need to draw from more sources than just Gundam. Not that Gundam doesn't get more than a few references in this show; when a meteor falls towards the Earth and needs to be destroyed, it's called a "Drop" and the primary antagonist of the iDOL Project is the "Enemy Organization" (which hasn't been explicitly named yet). I can't help but think the story used in I.X. was intentionally prototyping the story of Gundam 00, some of the similarities are unmistakable, and 00 aired immediately after I.X. completed it's run.
Oh, right, and PENGUINS. FUCKING PENGUINS EVERYWHERE LIKE M.J., I GOTTA SAY IT WAS A GOOD DAY. :3
7Th said:
There is no definite aspect of an art that determines it's 'quality'. The idea of a 'concept' encapsulates what you are calling execution. Concepts can, undoubtedly, be similar in aspects. These similar concepts can saturate a market. And those similar concepts, along with the market they have saturated, can stagnate.
...You don't have to. It is a pretty good book though.
Since when does 'quality' used as an adj not mean 'good?' And no, I'd never speak against a well informed opinion. That's ridiculous.
I'm just asking you to actually give me one.
Miri said:
The problem is that you're minimizing concepts way too much, then. Going by your reductionism, two shows have the same concept just because they both feature pretty boys piloting giant robots for the sake of peace, even if they may have completely different narrative structures, themes or styles.
Miri said:
Look at it this way: you're essentially arguing that a show features pretty boys piloting giant robots is BY DEFAULT worse than a show that doesn't feature pretty boys piloting giant robots just because there are lots of shows that feature pretty boys piloting giant robots.
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