Support NeoGAF

[Baron Aloha]

SRPGs are the bane of my existence.

After spending lord knows how long on the first battle in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (it was much longer than any first battle in an RPG should be IMO) I swore that I would never play another one for as long as I live.

Man is that game slow!

 

[John Harker]

I didn't mean to insult SRPGs. I like walking from town to town and how RPGs work. I'm not saying they're more complicated than SRPGs, I'm just saying they appeal to me more. That's it. Yeesh.

Seriously, though, why can't someone create like, a new genre?
Ya know, where you can actually CONTROL your character? Walk them around the world, interactive with other characters, be involved in the storyline, and yet battle like Tactics?
Because I really do enjoy strategy battles (Im first playing Tactics Advance now, but Vandal Hearts/Kartia/Tactics 1 etc, all good stuff), yet they are all fundamentally the same.

Why not mix it up a bit?
Are there any games like that that I just dont know?

 

[Pellham]

Ya know, where you can actually CONTROL your character? Walk them around the world, interactive with other characters, be involved in the storyline, and yet battle like Tactics?

Well, honestly, I think this sort of request is rather trivial in the scope of all things SRPG (after all, what's the difference between watching some cut-scenes vs controlling your main dude in cut-scenes?), but Bahamut Lagoon lets you control your character around to talk to people in between scenarios. That's just one example, i'm sure theres more, but really, this is rather insignificant and while it makes Bahamut Lagoon fun and quirky, it doesn't improve its quality or make it more "RPG-like".

SRPGs are war simulation games first, RPG last. The RPG elements serve to give unique identities to your characters whereas in a regular war sim or RTS, you'd often be using piles of generic troops, see Koei's games or Warcraft.

So in other words, you really have to be a big strategy or war sim fan in order to truly enjoy SRPGs. You don't have to be an RPG fan to enjoy SRPGs. And I get the feeling that a lot of people who dislike SRPGs do so because they play SRPGs expecting a unique kind of RPG, even though SRPGs aren't RPGs.

 

[radios shipping overview]

SRPGs are war simulation games first, RPG last. The RPG elements serve to give unique identities to your characters whereas in a regular war sim or RTS, you'd often be using piles of generic troops, see Koei's games or Warcraft.

So in other words, you really have to be a big strategy or war sim fan in order to truly enjoy SRPGs. You don't have to be an RPG fan to enjoy SRPGs. And I get the feeling that a lot of people who dislike SRPGs do so because they play SRPGs expecting a unique kind of RPG, even though SRPGs aren't RPGs.

A difference between Koei's sims and other tactical wargames is that units are headed by unique generals under your command, each of which is based on a historical figure (from Three Kingdoms, Japanese history, or wherever). Each has his or her own portrait, has stats based on the real-life or novel equivalent, and has skills and rank (number of troops under their command) that can increase through training, experience, and promotions. And in games like RTK 7, 8, and 10, you can even hold conversations and banquets and build relationships with the officers. It's a nice personal touch that games like Advance Wars and Daisenryaku don't have, while the gameplay focus is still on overall strategy and unit tactics.

 

[jarrod]

Well, honestly, I think this sort of request is rather trivial in the scope of all things SRPG (after all, what's the difference between watching some cut-scenes vs controlling your main dude in cut-scenes?), but Bahamut Lagoon lets you control your character around to talk to people in between scenarios. That's just one example, i'm sure theres more, but really, this is rather insignificant and while it makes Bahamut Lagoon fun and quirky, it doesn't improve its quality or make it more "RPG-like".

SRPGs are war simulation games first, RPG last. The RPG elements serve to give unique identities to your characters whereas in a regular war sim or RTS, you'd often be using piles of generic troops, see Koei's games or Warcraft.

So in other words, you really have to be a big strategy or war sim fan in order to truly enjoy SRPGs. You don't have to be an RPG fan to enjoy SRPGs. And I get the feeling that a lot of people who dislike SRPGs do so because they play SRPGs expecting a unique kind of RPG, even though SRPGs aren't RPGs.

Agreed. I know we've had the SRPG/ARPG/RPG talk before, but where do you think "tactics" brand SRPGs fall? More on the "RPG" side or the "strategy/simulation" side?

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

My dream RPG would probably be one that combines the "not afraid to show emotions besides anger" elements of a lot of Japanese RPGs with the "not afraid to have a protaganist that has hit puberty" mentality of a lot of Western RPGs.

Yeah, I think a lot of older fans of Japanese RPGs would like something that keeps some of what hooked us on the genre as kids but is a little more mature. I'm hoping Lost Odyssey will do it for us.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

A difference between Koei's sims and other tactical wargames is that units are headed by unique generals under your command, each of which is based on a historical figure (from Three Kingdoms, Japanese history, or wherever). Each has his or her own portrait, has stats based on the real-life or novel equivalent, and has skills and rank (number of troops under their command) that can increase through training, experience, and promotions. And in games like RTK 7, 8, and 10, you can even hold conversations and banquets and build relationships with the officers. It's a nice personal touch that games like Advance Wars and Daisenryaku don't have, while the gameplay focus is still on overall strategy and unit tactics.

I'm interested in trying out one of the newer ROTKs. Do you suggest a particular title, or waiting a week or so for X?

 

[Acosta]

The best RPG ever is........real life

Poor graphics, lacks of options, lack of customization for characters, the evolution of character is limited, story sucks, dumb NPCs... no, I´m not agree.

About the topic, both for me.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I'm interested in trying out one of the newer ROTKs. Do you suggest a particular title, or waiting a week or so for X?

7 and 8 are both good titles to start with (though 7 is a bit simpler), so grab one of those if you're on a budget. If you've got the money, go for 10. It might a while to get into the game, so I'd recommend choosing a Vassal-ranked officer when you start so that you can get the basics down without having a ton of responsibility to start with.

 

[APF]

Fire Emblem/Shining Force is a completly different ballpark from "Tactics" games.

Two different sub-sub-genres.

Can people here explain the difference?

This thread has been pretty interesting to me, as I'm a big fan of console/Japanese RPGS but really haven't been able to stand SRPGS...

 

[jarrod]

I'm bored, here's my favs per console generation (not counting this gen, as it's sucked for console RPGs)!

RPG

01 Dragon Warrior III (NES) Enix/Chunsoft
02 Dragon Warrior IV (NES) Enis/Chunsoft
03 Final Fantasy III (FC) Square

01 Lufia II: Rise of the Sinestrals (SNES) Taito/Neverland
02 Dragon Quest VI: The Illusionary Earth (SFC) Enix/Heartbeat
03 Final Fantasy V (SFC) Square

01 Valkyrie Profile (PS) Enix/tri-Ace
02 Grandia (SS/PS) GameArts
03 Paper Mario (N64) Nintendo/Intelligent Systems


SRPG

01 Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SFC) Quest
02 Shining Force II: Ancient Sealing (Gen) Sega/Camelot
03 Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (SNES) Quest

01 Final Fantasy Tactics (PS) Square
02 Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber (N64) Quest
03 Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth (PS) Atlus/Max-Five


ARPG

01 The Legend of Zelda (NES) Nintendo
02 Golvellius: The Valley of Doom (SMS) Sega/Compile
03 Crystalis (NES) SNK

01 LandStalker: The Treasure of King Nole (Gen) Sega/Climax
02 Terranigma (SNES) Enix/Quintet
03 Beyond Oasis (Gen) Sega/Ancient

01 The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (N64) Nintendo
02 Alundra (PS) SCEI/Matrix
03 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) Nintendo

 

[djtiesto]

Seriously, though, why can't someone create like, a new genre?
Ya know, where you can actually CONTROL your character? Walk them around the world, interactive with other characters, be involved in the storyline, and yet battle like Tactics?
Because I really do enjoy strategy battles (Im first playing Tactics Advance now, but Vandal Hearts/Kartia/Tactics 1 etc, all good stuff), yet they are all fundamentally the same.

Why not mix it up a bit?
Are there any games like that that I just dont know?

Arc the Lad series, Shining Force series...

 

[jarrod]

Here's the basic distinction via examples...

Simulation RPGs
-Fire Emblem
-Langisser
-Shining Force
-Arc the Lad

Strategy RPGs
-Ogre Battle Saga
-Final Fantasy Tactics
-Front Mission
-Nippon Ichi SRPGs

 

[Pellham]

but where do you think "tactics" brand SRPGs fall? More on the "RPG" side or the "strategy/simulation" side?

Tactics-style SRPGs definately have a greater RPG focus than other SRPG styles, but these elements still serve to complement the strategy gameplay of these games. You can have as many side dungeons, minigames, optional quests, RPG-like exploration as you want, but at the end of the day, you're still going through the SRPG routine of scenario->cut-scene->town (whereas an RPG is dungeon->cut-scene->town).

On the flipside, there are games like Brigandine, Dragon Force, and Langrisser that are much closer to Koei's war sims in the sense that the purpose of these games is to pick an army and try to conquer everyone else with your army/kingdom. They illustrate the war simulation aspect moreso than Fire Emblem-style SRPGs do.

A difference between Koei's sims and other tactical wargames is that units are headed by unique generals under your command, each of which is based on a historical figure (from Three Kingdoms, Japanese history, or wherever). Each has his or her own portrait, has stats based on the real-life or novel equivalent, and has skills and rank (number of troops under their command) that can increase through training, experience, and promotions. And in games like RTK 7, 8, and 10, you can even hold conversations and banquets and build relationships with the officers. It's a nice personal touch that games like Advance Wars and Daisenryaku don't have, while the gameplay focus is still on overall strategy and unit tactics.

Yeah, that's what makes Koei's sims unique and fun. I wish more of the newer ones came out here, but i'll settle for imports if I can ever get my hands on them (or have the time to play them).

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Well, in Japan the genre we call strategy-RPG has always been called simulation-RPG, even for games like FFT that don't really try to simulate reality at all.

 

[John Harker]

Arc the Lad series, Shining Force series...

I tried Twilight Spirits, and it sucked.

 

[Ferd]

Try Arc the Lad II. Twilight Spirits sucks.

 

[Pellham]

Well, in Japan the genre we call strategy-RPG has always been called simulation-RPG, even for games like FFT that don't really try to simulate reality at all.

Yeah, that's why I never address the genre as "strategy/RPG" because that's something EGM or Gamefan made up. To me, SRPG will always stand for simulation-RPG.

 

[opkal]

I can get into most RPG's without any problem and settle myself into them quickly. With SRPG's however, I find myself giving up with the majority of them fairly quickly. That’s not to say that I don't like SRPG's, as there are a few of them that I absolutely adore, it's just with me and any kind of RPG, if I can't get into it early I rarely stick around to see things flesh out, and the general slow pace of SRPG's is something that's hard to get past.