ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Then people should stop watching Star Wars movie then if that is what they mean.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars Celebration 2017 |OT| A thread forty years in the making. You'll be Omazed.
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
- Start date
- Status
Then people should stop watching Star Wars movie then if that is what they mean.
Seriously I gotta lose some respect for people who claim TLJ teaser was safe
At this point it's a totally meaningless word.
brandonh83
Banned
Safe in this context basically means that if a Star Wars movie feels like a Star Wars movie and doesn't really do anything outside the bounds of Star Wars then it's a safe Star Wars movie that took no risks.
Force Awakens felt like an extension of the original trilogy (and it was, it's episode 7, the last original trilogy film was episode 6) because Lucasfilm was apparently under the fucking delusion that the masses complained about the prequel trilogy not being enough like the originals (they must have been hallucinating), so they made the mistake of trying to reach back toward the originals and strive for better acting and dialogue.
Then Rogue One was pretty risky by
killing off the entire main cast, having NO Jedi and NO lightsaber duels
Killer Queen
Banned
Exact same boat
There were notes, but there were also working scripts from the year before Lucasfilm was sold to Disney. See the Art of The Force Awekens book for a glimpse detailed storyboards that were made for the opening of that film! The main character seemed to have been 2 kids if I remember well.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No. He never had any scripts for the sequel trilogy. Just a bunch of notes.
The pre-production art you're referencing wasn't based on a screenplay. pre-production art can (and often does) get created before a script is written.
Irreversible: A Star Wars Story
My take on TLJ teaser.
It was safe or risky. It just was. It showed scenes from a movie with almost no context as to why things are happening. It showed scenes from a movie that we'll eventually see. The biggest thing freaking people out (in a good way) is Luke's last line.
We'll get an idea of the plot when there is an official trailer.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I should watch the live streams when I get a chance. I missed day 3.
We even got some new vehicles in Rogue One and it seems like nobody cared about those too.
We even got some new vehicles in Rogue One and it seems like nobody cared about those too.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You guys are joking but a small segment of the audience (which likely venn diagrams pretty closely with those who complain about "safe, pandering, fanservicey" Star Wars) thinks the best possible risk you could take with the series is to basically make it like a 90s image comic and go for the R.
Which is, of course, one of the safest, dullest, most obvious and empty routes one could pursue.
Which is, of course, one of the safest, dullest, most obvious and empty routes one could pursue.
There's also the small idea that Luke suggested that the concepts of light, dark and force balance are either being completely thrown out or reworked
You know.. Everything we know about the force
How is that neither safe or risky?
brandonh83
Banned
I think it comes down to film elitists wanting Star Wars to be some not-Star Wars at all arthouse pretentious bullshit.
edit: basically what Bobby just said
A choice like Rian Johnson is solid to me because I think he will do something a bit different but it'll still 100% be Star Wars. Unfortunately the teaser had lightsabers but we'll have to get over that I guess.
edit: basically what Bobby just said
A choice like Rian Johnson is solid to me because I think he will do something a bit different but it'll still 100% be Star Wars. Unfortunately the teaser had lightsabers but we'll have to get over that I guess.
Haloid1177
Banned
Arthouse pretentious bullshit and 90s Image comic are like some polar opposite shit tho.
brandonh83
Banned
Either or. We're both saying they probably want something that doesn't resemble Star Wars in the least bit.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
So, what new Star Wars novels are coming out?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not even really that at all (90s Image and "art house" aren't really synonyms. Nobody's confusing Savage Dragon and fuckin Jim Jarmusch anytime soon). We're not really dealing with "film elitism" here. It's more like dilettantes whose conception of criticism comes from two-dimensional cynics whose entire schtick is that they hate film criticism, and they've substituted hot takes for real thought. Discussion's been more or less gamified, and in a lot of film talk (especially when it comes to big-budget genre entertainment), it's less a conversation than it is a race to hit the approved talking points (as issued by aforementioned two-dimensional cynics who model themselves as self-made film critics who hate film criticism) as fast as possible.
Why come up with your own interpretation when you can game genie your way to sounding like you understand any of the bullshit you're saying.
If anything I feel like the main issue with most GAFfers going against these new films is that they care more about lore-expanding content than the actual composition of a Star Wars film. This pretty much also reflects much of GAF's general views on movies as well.
I'm just talking about the trailer itself. What was seen. Nothing about that was risky or safe. Does it look like Star Wars? Of course it does.
But that's the only reason people say it's "safe". Is because it looks like Star Wars.
Well there's so many fans of the series over multiple generations with different preferences, I don't think there's anything quite like it. People who want something exactly like the OT. People who liked the prequels more. People who just want the ST to be the EU. People who want Star Wars to be something totally different. It's to be expected that all the fans can't be satisfied.
brandonh83
Banned
Also these things absolutely, but it wouldn't surprise me if a Star Wars movie came out as I described that some would applaud for being completely different. I mean when I see people clamoring for Refn or Malick to do one, it just, you know, flips on certain switches.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
At some point, I think some GAFers want every franchise to be the same thing. In one of the Battlefront 2 thread, a poster was saying that the new SP mode should go full Spec Ops: The Line just because the same writer is working on the new Battlefront game.
MiamiWesker
Member
I have zero fear of this movie. I'm amassive Luke fan, I want him to be all god like greatest Jedi ever, but I had books and stuff about that. I made up my own stories in my head of him being that. This is kind of exciting, I don't know where they are going with this.
So far most of this new canon is hitting all the right notes. Honestly the worst part of the new canon is starkiller base and TFA plot details surrounding that which make my brain hurt it's so dumb. I feel TLJ will be far more character focused and hopefully the galaxy wife conflict stuff starts to get fleshed out in a logical way.
If you haven't read it Bloodlines is the best look into the inbetween space between Jedi and TFA, it helps a lot with figuring out where the galaxy is and how the first order comes into being.
I find what they are doing with the story is interesting, different, playing on expectations. But in the end what matters is we get a movie with characters we love and journey that matters.
So far most of this new canon is hitting all the right notes. Honestly the worst part of the new canon is starkiller base and TFA plot details surrounding that which make my brain hurt it's so dumb. I feel TLJ will be far more character focused and hopefully the galaxy wife conflict stuff starts to get fleshed out in a logical way.
If you haven't read it Bloodlines is the best look into the inbetween space between Jedi and TFA, it helps a lot with figuring out where the galaxy is and how the first order comes into being.
I find what they are doing with the story is interesting, different, playing on expectations. But in the end what matters is we get a movie with characters we love and journey that matters.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Which is nuts to me because for as focused as people are on the (overinflated) importance of lore (a term that's misused like 75% of the time to make their bullshit of choice sound more important than it really is) the idea of leaving lore to just be lore and not become text is like anathema to them.
Fuckin' continuity junkies, basically. Slapping at their inner elbow with two fingers waiting for their next wiki-hit.
Hell, I'm fairly certain for a fair amount of those people, the emotional effect isn't even in the storytelling. It's not what's happening to the characters so much as what's happening to them. When most of your joy is caught up solely in making sure the little boxes you're keeping next to all these characters and plot points are neatly segmented into the right and proper places, and checked off and kept tidy, a major crossover event, a surprise appearance from a character thought dead, a secret baby nobody ever knew about - it's not really about how this affects the characters. It's how this affects your mental reckoning of the laundry list of fictional bullshit you now have to go back and re-order.
Killer Queen
Banned
Legit question: how'd you get to be so knowledgeable and eloquent on film related stuff. I love reading your posts, especially on Star Wars and they're both inspiring and insightful.
brandonh83
Banned
I can't imagine anyone thinking that the writing/story in an EA/DICE Battlefront game will be anything above a quick job. I mean, if it is, I guess there's a first time for everything.
I can't speak for Bobby, but as a film studies student, it basically involves hours upon hours of plastering yourself with readings/discussions, be it for class or because you are actively seeking that shit out daily through whatever means.
And even after all that, I've never really eloquently talked about movies as I'd hoped.
EDIT: Also just really fucking love movies of course.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know that I am, really. Lord knows, for as much as people have fucking spat "Listen to this self-proclaimed film expert run his fat fucking mouth" at me here, I don't remember ever once calling myself a film expert, because I'm not. I miss shit all the time, I misunderstand shit frequently, I get the wrong idea, I make hasty judgments, I explain myself poorly, etc. etc. All the same shit anyone else does.
But the more you watch movies, and the more you read about movies (or art in general) and the more you talk with other people about art, or even just sit back and read other people's opinions & discussions - the more you're going to understand shi; especially in a way that makes sense to you, and for you.
It's basically just a matter of time and interest and willingness to listen. And not just cheat code your way to dilettante status by having TV Tropes bookmarked for the next time you get in a fight over some meaningless bullshit in a superhero movie.
And if you're lucky, you'll end up pushing 40 talking Star Wars for 72 straight hours in the off-topic section of a video game forum! Which could be worse. You could be the guy screencapping this post to "ironically" share with the off-topic section of a spinoff board full of banned ex-members of a video game forum.
Haloid1177
Banned
Don't encourage him.
I cant see them killing off Luke with Carrie gone even if it was a plan before hand. The amount of Hate that would explode from having all the original cast gone would make Palpatine look like a good guy in comparison.
There is honestly no reason that Luke has to die at all. He can fade into the background as whatever he has become and let the galaxy go on with whatever happens after 9.
There is honestly no reason that Luke has to die at all. He can fade into the background as whatever he has become and let the galaxy go on with whatever happens after 9.
So I learned today that it's actually not DICE making it but a new studio called Motive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motive_Studios
DICE is still doing the MP, though.
Hopefully we might get a pretty cool SP? Hopefully...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I can.
They should.
Stories end. Heroes do too.
That is the way of things.
(you know the rest)
brandonh83
Banned
MiamiWesker
Member
No need to kill him in 8, in fact they better not. 9 is the end, they can do whatever works best.
I found it interesting how Hamill was saying this is no longer Skywalkers story, but then Kennedy jumped in and said "Luke is still a major major part of the story" I feel that even though Luke may not be the star anymore the Star Wars saga is still about the skywalkers. Even if it's through teaching in this last trilogy it's still the story of how his family shaped the galaxy, or at least that's how I feel it should be. What bigger legacy to leave than Luke Skywalker is the person responsible for ending the Jedi/Sith or rethinking how the force is used.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You know that was almost a blown take and they kept it because it was adorable.
Same shit happened in Rogue One ("And there's a fresh one if you mouth off again")
Hell, there's an almost blown take in Episode III that slipped in, but that was apparently due to Lucas mistaking McGregor's near-laughter for near-tears.
One of the most famous scenes in Bryan Singer's entire career is basically a string of blown takes that went in the movie because it worked so much better than anything else that scene was supposed to have been.
Movies are organic things. Even the big studio tentpoles.
Same shit happened in Rogue One ("And there's a fresh one if you mouth off again")
Hell, there's an almost blown take in Episode III that slipped in, but that was apparently due to Lucas mistaking McGregor's near-laughter for near-tears.
One of the most famous scenes in Bryan Singer's entire career is basically a string of blown takes that went in the movie because it worked so much better than anything else that scene was supposed to have been.
Movies are organic things. Even the big studio tentpoles.
I don't mind them killing Luke by the end of trilogy, but I think he should exit the movie series even if he survives. Give him a good send-off. His Frodo leaving for the Grey Havens moment. His "Y'know Adrian, we did it."
The dilemma, unfortunately, is that you just know the EU won't leave it alone if it comes to that.
The dilemma, unfortunately, is that you just know the EU won't leave it alone if it comes to that.
brandonh83
Banned
She's been by herself, fending for herself for years and dealing with tons of bullshit, and just ran into who she thinks is a Resistance fighter, which makes her super giddy and she has a bit of a moment with that-- trying to contain her excitement over that chance meeting.
That's true, but doesn't mean that this was specifically a "blown take"
Bobby Roberts
Banned
(frantically searches for a gif of Michael Shannon hugging someone)
Or the actress almost cracked up in the middle of a take and it worked for the scene so they kept it.
I don't know why this is such an outlandish notion to entertain (shrug)
Killer Queen
Banned
It's a legitimate question!
Well, thank you both for these responses and honestly it's reading these discussions (and star wars/alien in particular) that's got me genuinely interested in film stuff to the point where I might actually pursue it in some form in the future. I was also told I have a great eye for camera angles in highschool film class teacher so maybe it really is something I should get into seriously.
No such thing
brandonh83
Banned
I might think that if it didn't totally have that context behind it 100%!
I mean the entire first half is Abrams trying to say hey look I'm having a bunch of quirky, humorous character interactions that the prequels lacked.
why don't we just DM Josh Gad so he can ask her himself
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
If there is one thing I can say about the direction that Star Wars,is that we are not getting the Yuuzhan Vong.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You just confused art-house cinema with 90s Image Comics, Brandon. Your relationship to context maybe isn't the most steady one.
You're right. This is what came up when I searched it:
brandonh83
Banned
Not a bad idea.
Nah. When I said "basically what Bobby said" and I thought I clarified that-- was that people who think SW is playing it too safe want something radically different like what you said (90's Image comics) and/or what I said (arthouse films)
If you don't believe me, eh. I got nothin' to lose.
- Status