X-wing is the most popular miniatures game in North America right now according to some metrics, so I can't see it going anywhere any time soon.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game | The Official Thread
- Thread starter MisterAnderson
- Start date
X-wing is the most popular miniatures game in North America right now according to some metrics, so I can't see it going anywhere any time soon.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I guess this Last Jedi ship is probably going to be coming to the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMTExpDs7WA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMTExpDs7WA
We know at least three new space ships for The Last Jedi: New A-wing, the Resistance Bomber (at least a large ship but big enough it might actually qualify as a huge one), and new TIE fighter type flown by Kylo Ren.
For the TIE, interesting it may come in two flavors: The white First Order one (an older leaked pic of a toy or some such), and black and gray for Kylo Ren (leaked image of the Lego set showed this).
EDIT This in the film. Naturally we've no idea what will come to X-Wing though the TIE and A-wing are safe bets.
I would say it is probable there may be more new ships we haven't see so far.
By the way, surprised the Resistance Transport never became a ship for X-Wing. Would've made a reasonable support-crew ship, though perhaps it was skipped because it wouldn't be terribly different from the HWK?
EDIT Note this was written before i actually watched the vid...
For the TIE, interesting it may come in two flavors: The white First Order one (an older leaked pic of a toy or some such), and black and gray for Kylo Ren (leaked image of the Lego set showed this).
EDIT This in the film. Naturally we've no idea what will come to X-Wing though the TIE and A-wing are safe bets.
I would say it is probable there may be more new ships we haven't see so far.
By the way, surprised the Resistance Transport never became a ship for X-Wing. Would've made a reasonable support-crew ship, though perhaps it was skipped because it wouldn't be terribly different from the HWK?
EDIT Note this was written before i actually watched the vid...
Lego fakes are easy to tell apart. And Lego doesn't have them removed, unlike real pics with "confidential" watermark...
EYEL1NER
Member
I was inclined to believe the ship was legit since the first toy I saw, and the Lego pics seemed like more proof to me, but there was a tiny voice in the back of my head saying "Might not be real though, you never know." It all definitely seemed like it was on the up and up.
Silencer looks amazing, hopefully it's a fantastic new imperial ace to throw about. I'm curious to see how they handle Rens ability. In an arc dodging ace, that ability can either be a really powerful deterrent or utterly useless if the ship has little health.
I'd be curious to see if they up his PS, too. PS6 in what is essentially an interceptor is not going to be very good.
I'd be curious to see if they up his PS, too. PS6 in what is essentially an interceptor is not going to be very good.
One Foul Note
Member
Hope the Silencer goes in, that is a funky looking ship. Not sure what role it might fill but perhaps something like an premium arc dodger, not completely unlike the Rebel E-wing.
First Order TIE Interceptor or (fixed) TIE Advanced equivalent probably. Better than the Interceptor with tech slot (and missiles) but more expensive.
matt360
Member
Played a game with my wife yesterday and had a great time. She really likes playing so I'm glad I've found a partner so close to home. She won't let me play as the Rebels though, lol. I messed around with a TIE Interceptor w/ Soontir Fel for the first time, and he seems pretty rad. Also used Dark Curse, and a couple random pilots in a TIE Bomber and TIE.
It seems like such a dumb thing, but I'm really excited that she's getting into it. We're not playing with the support cards or upgrade cards yet, and we're not doing asteroids yet until we both get a better feel for the game. I'm looking through my cards pretty frequently though, and saw the Push the Limit card that came with my A-Wing. That seems like it'd be a great one to use with Soontir Fel.
Payday is Tuesday and I already have my miniaturemarket.com shopping cart filled and ready to go. Got Sabine's TIE, TIE Defender, TIE Striker, B-Wing, E-Wing, and a Z-95 Headhunter in there. Need to get a proper playmat as well.
It seems like such a dumb thing, but I'm really excited that she's getting into it. We're not playing with the support cards or upgrade cards yet, and we're not doing asteroids yet until we both get a better feel for the game. I'm looking through my cards pretty frequently though, and saw the Push the Limit card that came with my A-Wing. That seems like it'd be a great one to use with Soontir Fel.
Payday is Tuesday and I already have my miniaturemarket.com shopping cart filled and ready to go. Got Sabine's TIE, TIE Defender, TIE Striker, B-Wing, E-Wing, and a Z-95 Headhunter in there. Need to get a proper playmat as well.
Push the limit is golden for Soontir Fel. Experienced that myself while playing against my brother. Fly near enemy, do boost and barrel roll to get to range 1 while avoiding enemy firing arc... Arc-dodging is fun though not easy.
For playmats, note that official ones are way more expensive than unofficial ones. Gale Force Nine makes playmats that are suitable for X-wing, though there might be others.
I'll note that E-wing doesn't seem to be very good value. Rather expensive for what it does, and doesn't come with many interesting cards. IMO. YMMV.
TIE Defender is nice, especially if you can get Imperial Veterans. TIE/D title and Tractor Beam is hilariously fun combination.
matt360
Member
Ah, so that's what arc-dodging is. Dancing your way around your enemy's firing arc? I guess that should go without saying, but I've seen that phrase thrown around and wasn't 100% sure what it meant.
Aside from simply collecting, I threw the E-Wing in there mostly because I like the character Corran Horn, and I thought it would be cool to get to play as him. But mostly it's just to collect all of the smaller ships, play around with them, and see which ones I should double up on. Do you recommend the double packs like the Imperial Aces and Veterans, and the Rebel Aces pack?
Yeah, arc-dodging is quite literally that.
As i understand it, the game has three core ship types: Turret, jouster, arc-dodger. They have kind of rock-paper-scissors balance but this is not a hard rule.
Turret ships just chip away at the enemy. Twin-laser turret armed Y-Wings are a good example. They counter arc-dodgers.
Jousters are kinda tough, frontal assault ships. The (T-70) X-wing is one in principle. You just flip around (K-turn) and attack again. They counter turrets, as turrets may have poor mobility and lack firepower.
Arc-dodgers are maneuverable and powerful but can't take hits, hence avoidance of firing arcs. They counter jousters with their maneuverability.
In addition to these, there are "bombers" and "supports" that don't quite fit any of these categories, and as ships may overlap other roles. The K-wing for example, can be a turret or a bomber or both (though using points for both is not necessarily wise). A Lambda shuttle with Emperor Palpatine would be an example of support.
Trying everything is a good idea for sure. I am myself currently focusing on broadening my mini selection rather than getting more what i like. And the E-wing is on my list though low priority. For casual gaming it is probably good enough. I did advocate the HWK-260 earlier, a ship many see as a poor ship...
As for double packs, they are often about fixing or improving weaker ships. Imperial Veterans adds options for the TIE Bomber (like turning it into a support ship with TIE Shuttle title) and buffs TIE Defender considerably with the title options (TIE/D and TIE/7x). If you really want to play with certain ships, you may well want those double packs. They do come with good cards often in any case, and that maybe good reason to get them (unless you just print cards or proxy them).
As i understand it, the game has three core ship types: Turret, jouster, arc-dodger. They have kind of rock-paper-scissors balance but this is not a hard rule.
Turret ships just chip away at the enemy. Twin-laser turret armed Y-Wings are a good example. They counter arc-dodgers.
Jousters are kinda tough, frontal assault ships. The (T-70) X-wing is one in principle. You just flip around (K-turn) and attack again. They counter turrets, as turrets may have poor mobility and lack firepower.
Arc-dodgers are maneuverable and powerful but can't take hits, hence avoidance of firing arcs. They counter jousters with their maneuverability.
In addition to these, there are "bombers" and "supports" that don't quite fit any of these categories, and as ships may overlap other roles. The K-wing for example, can be a turret or a bomber or both (though using points for both is not necessarily wise). A Lambda shuttle with Emperor Palpatine would be an example of support.
Trying everything is a good idea for sure. I am myself currently focusing on broadening my mini selection rather than getting more what i like. And the E-wing is on my list though low priority. For casual gaming it is probably good enough. I did advocate the HWK-260 earlier, a ship many see as a poor ship...
As for double packs, they are often about fixing or improving weaker ships. Imperial Veterans adds options for the TIE Bomber (like turning it into a support ship with TIE Shuttle title) and buffs TIE Defender considerably with the title options (TIE/D and TIE/7x). If you really want to play with certain ships, you may well want those double packs. They do come with good cards often in any case, and that maybe good reason to get them (unless you just print cards or proxy them).
matt360
Member
Thanks for your reply. What you said about the rock-paper-scissors thing makes a lot of sense. I still don't know the ships well enough to figure out what's what, but I look forward to messing around and finding out. After playing with the TIE Interceptor on Saturday with Soontir Fel though, it became clear that that ship can move!
So I'm guessing those arc-dodgers are weak against turrets because the turrets can fire 360 degrees? Is it a good idea to put some cloaking devices on them? I'm actually not 100% sure about how the turrets work to be honest. My wife played the Falcon in our last game, which I know has a turret as its primary weapon. When attacking, is it basically the same as measuring for a Target Lock, taking the range ruler and doing a 360 degree sweep?
Yeah, turret primary weapons (or turret secondary weapon) can fire 360 degrees. And this is indeed why they're good vs arc-dodgers. Note the differences between "turret primary" and "turret secondary" weapons, the latter, like all secondary weapons, do not grant range bonuses to neither attacker nor defender..
Target locks need to be made within firing arc (excepting some rare abilities perhaps), though they can be spent even outside them once locked.
I don't have stealth device cards myself (because they come with ships i'm not particularly interested in) but yes, they're good upgrades for arc-dodgers. Autothrusters is another excellent card for them.
Target locks need to be made within firing arc (excepting some rare abilities perhaps), though they can be spent even outside them once locked.
I don't have stealth device cards myself (because they come with ships i'm not particularly interested in) but yes, they're good upgrades for arc-dodgers. Autothrusters is another excellent card for them.
AbsolutBro
Member
Unless the rules have changed recently, to acquire a target lock you only need to be at R1-3 of the target. They do not need to be in arc for you to acquire (or use) a target lock. Secondary weapons, unless otherwise stated, DO need to be in-arc.
Wait, have i been playing wrong... Not impossible, since the rule wordings are... well, rather awkwardly written at times. EDIT In this case, i have just missed that point about target locking being 360 effect. The reference book being in alphabetical order isn't really helping any. X-wing wikia is better for checking rules, lol.
Oh, well, it is not like it has impact anything really.
Note: I only play casually with my brother and a friend.
EDIT Also, the i've been messing up that target lock because i've been playing TIE Fighter lately so much, and flying the Missile Boat... Tetris effect, in other words.
matt360
Member
Yeah, I think it's 360 degrees. The first time I played I also got it wrong, but then I saw a picture example on page 11 of the TFA version Core Set in the Learn to Play book that shows an X-Wing acquiring a target lock on a ship that is way outside of its firing arc. I guess you can think of target locking as like a sonar radar, that shoots out a ping in all directions. I'm not sure if there is such a picture in the rule book in the original core set or not.
Can confirm, target locks can be performed at range 1-3 from any angle.
It makes sense because the Lambda class shuttle has a title that lets it target lock from any range (imagine trying to work out a firing arc at range 4 or 5) and there's a modification card that lets you get a target lock from only range 3 and beyond.
It's worth noting, however, that you measure from closest points. There's a lot of confusion to as what 'closest point' means as a lot of people think it means corner to corner, it's actually the area of the base that is closest to the closest area of the base of the other ship. So that may even be a flat edge of the base.
It makes sense because the Lambda class shuttle has a title that lets it target lock from any range (imagine trying to work out a firing arc at range 4 or 5) and there's a modification card that lets you get a target lock from only range 3 and beyond.
It's worth noting, however, that you measure from closest points. There's a lot of confusion to as what 'closest point' means as a lot of people think it means corner to corner, it's actually the area of the base that is closest to the closest area of the base of the other ship. So that may even be a flat edge of the base.
Only, it is nearly always corner to corner. Corner to part of edge is possible but, in my experience, it is rather rare. And i think we've gotten only one case when edges were parallel to each other (which leads to multiple closest points).
In some cases, it's possible to have the corner of one base facing the flat edge of another, it's also important when deciding if a shot is through an asteroid.
Yeah, i mentioned that, they're rare in my experience for whatever reason. In such cases, there is only one closest point on the edge though.
Only if edges are parallel and there are multiple points. Otherwise, there is only one closest point and asteroid is either in the way or not.
Shame the > isn't at 90 degree angle but it will suffice for "illustration":
>| or >/ has only one closest point.
>< or / \ has only one closest point (imagine there is a corner at the end of the slashes).
|| or // multiple closest points.
|o| or /o/ multiple closest points but since attacker decides the measuring point as long as it is also closest point to closest point, he or she can declare the asteroid is not in the way.
|O| or /O/ multiple closest points but the asteroid covers all points.
One Foul Note
Member
That happens quite regularly at my games. The nature of the turns all being the same for every ship means they often keep to the same rotational angle which allows these flat side to flat side attacks to happen.
Turns cut short quickly make mess of that. For some reason our games devolve into a furball and bumping quickly.
Also, measuring errors do compound eventually, even while trying to stay as accurate as possible.
A related question: Starting orientation can be anything, no? Because i don't recall the rules forbidding diagonal or other angled starting positions, just that ships are deployed within range 1 of the player's edge.
EDIT The point is, since this is, as far as i know, allowed, ships can be angled arbitrarily which further mess with rotational angles. Not that we do this often intentionally, but i've noticed our ships may not be actually deployed straight even if looks so at a glance.
One Foul Note
Member
You can start at any orientation, although people rarely do anything other then lining up perfectly with the board edge. Although there is an argument to start lined up 22.5 degrees in one direction. The exact nature of the angle is because it basically turns your first bank manoeuvre into pointing you straight at the opposite board edge and potentially might throw off your opponent.
AbsolutBro
Member
Starviper update:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/24/starviper-mk-ii/
new things:
Black Sun Assassin:
Dalan Oberos:
Thweek w/ Conditions:
Ion Dischargers:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/24/starviper-mk-ii/
new things:
Black Sun Assassin:
Dalan Oberos:
Thweek w/ Conditions:
Ion Dischargers:
Maarek Stele question:
My brother hit me thrice with one attack from Maarek Stele. My unit had Major Hull Breach. We figured that this means Maarek got to pick all three hits with his ability. Did we play it correctly? (ie Maarek drew three cards, picked one and repeated the process twice.)
(Note that my unit died from a single hit but the theoretical possibility of choosing hits from Major Hull Breach left us wondering.)
My brother hit me thrice with one attack from Maarek Stele. My unit had Major Hull Breach. We figured that this means Maarek got to pick all three hits with his ability. Did we play it correctly? (ie Maarek drew three cards, picked one and repeated the process twice.)
(Note that my unit died from a single hit but the theoretical possibility of choosing hits from Major Hull Breach left us wondering.)
EYEL1NER
Member
Major Hull Breach states that all damage cards are dealt face up. Stele activates when you deal a face up damage card. It would activate all three times, and the way you played it (resolve it for a damage card by drawing, then selecting one to deal, then discarding the others, and then resolve it again for a new card dealt, and so on).
If your ship died, you still would have dealt all damage cards out though.
Correct, he's had his turn.
I suspected we played it right.
We did draw all cards.
Well, except in another case where we forgot because we determined the target was toast but since there were no crits during the game anymore, it fortunately didn't affect the game.
While we've played over ten games within few months, we still don't have everything routine. Should keep the timing chart open and check every step just in case.
matt360
Member
So what list building app, sites, or tools do you all like to use? I'm on iOS, so I got Aurora, which seems to be alright. Apparently Android users get access to all the really good ones, though.
Specifically, are there any sites or tools that let you input the ships that you already have, and spit out ready-made lists, largely tailored to beginners?
Specifically, are there any sites or tools that let you input the ships that you already have, and spit out ready-made lists, largely tailored to beginners?
I mostly use Geordan's YASB for browsers, as easy and intuitive to use as it can get. If I really need to use an app, then is this one, but it's for Android. No idea on iOS.
In most builders you can add what expansions (or even cards in some cases) do you have, but the "create a list with this" thing only appears in Squadron Builder I think... and is quite crappy to be honest. It just randomly creates a list with the things you have but without any sense or plan.
In most builders you can add what expansions (or even cards in some cases) do you have, but the "create a list with this" thing only appears in Squadron Builder I think... and is quite crappy to be honest. It just randomly creates a list with the things you have but without any sense or plan.
sooooo
Any thoughts?
It takes some getting used to, I recommend Stridan makes for a fantastic support ship, but when you get used to it good lord it hits like a god damn truck!
Any thoughts?
It takes some getting used to, I recommend Stridan makes for a fantastic support ship, but when you get used to it good lord it hits like a god damn truck!
sooooo
Any thoughts?
It takes some getting used to, I recommend Stridan makes for a fantastic support ship, but when you get used to it good lord it hits like a god damn truck!
Calling fake until the FAQ actually drops. I just don't see them removing upgrades from the card bar, way too messy and confusing. If they do I expect a reprint of some kind.
EYEL1NER
Member
Mindlink change doesn't seem like a big change to me. It definitely ruins some lists though. I wonder how much they did in playtesting with just limiting it to small ships only.sooooo
Any thoughts?
I haven't agreed with the "nerf clusters (back to their original useless state), nerf Advanced SLAM, nerf Sabine, nerf Miranda, nerf TLT" crowd that basically wants K-Wings to fade back into obscurity, so the Advanced SLAM isn't something I like. Limiting it to only action bar actions wouldn't be so bad, if they didn't give the K-Wing a minimal action bar in the first place, but since it is only TL and focus, it pretty much kills Advanced SLAM. Let me SLAM away, hopefully out of arc or range, and then take a focus? To use with my 1 AGI? Don't need it for an attack because I can't shoot since I took a Weapons Disabled token to do it? Yeah right. I think a K-Wing title is something that is needed now, something that lets you equip two mods, that way you can take Advanced SLAM and Vectored Thrusters or Guidance Chips for Homing Missiles or something. I guess Experimental Interface might be something that makes an appearance on K-Wings: You get your action bomb after a SLAM still, but at the cost of one more point and a stress token. It certainly limits your moves next turn since it doesn't have a green hard turn, but you can still drop a reveal bomb while stressed. K-Wing bombers are gonna take some more skill to fly now though, that's for sure.
The JM5K/Pun1 changes? I haven't flown against Scouts really at all, only Dengar. Maybe these are great changes, maybe they go to far? I'm not sure yet. I do know that they royally botched that ship in the first place and some kind of change was needed. This seems overly complex for the cards though, with them not offering errata packs. I'll defer to people who have more experience against Scouts.
I love Jumpmaster changes, although is a shame they come this late. I mean, I understand why they tried to avoid deleting upgrade slots or changing a card points value, but in this case one of those things was quite necessary. That chassis at that cost is just broken, and the prior attempts to solve it (Deadeye, R4B11...) just patched the symptoms, didn't touch the real problem.
SLAM... I like it as much as I hate it. Bombing K-wings are hilarious to play but at the same time they meant some lists couldn't be played at all (hello Interceptors). But this ruins any K-wing not named Miranda, who just doesn't really use Advanced Slam in half her builds. For the other half she can just switch to Experimental Interface and keep SLAM bombing.
Attani... big nope. Attani is only trully worth with 3 or more ships using it. With 2, you are better getting something else. Adding a maximum range (1-2 maybe?) would have been much better.
The only way I could see the 2 ships thing working is that you can actually field more than those two but only one other ship gains the focus or stress (and written in some way you can't make a chain combo).
FFG really need to step up on the testing phase tho. And some of the current testers should stop using that position to favour his (and their playgroup) tournament results and start doing their job.
SLAM... I like it as much as I hate it. Bombing K-wings are hilarious to play but at the same time they meant some lists couldn't be played at all (hello Interceptors). But this ruins any K-wing not named Miranda, who just doesn't really use Advanced Slam in half her builds. For the other half she can just switch to Experimental Interface and keep SLAM bombing.
Attani... big nope. Attani is only trully worth with 3 or more ships using it. With 2, you are better getting something else. Adding a maximum range (1-2 maybe?) would have been much better.
The only way I could see the 2 ships thing working is that you can actually field more than those two but only one other ship gains the focus or stress (and written in some way you can't make a chain combo).
FFG really need to step up on the testing phase tho. And some of the current testers should stop using that position to favour his (and their playgroup) tournament results and start doing their job.
matt360
Member
I've got a quick beginner question about focus tokens vs focus actions. Specifically, today I used both Night Beast and Soontir Fel. I think I understand Soontir Fel's pilot ability pretty well, but I don't really get Night Beast's. His says,
"After executing a green maneuver, you may perform a free focus action."
So what's the difference between being awarded a free token and being able to perform a free focus action. I found this blurb on the wiki that says,
"If a card ability instructs a player to assign a focus token to a ship, this is different than performing a focus action. The ship is assigned the token without performing an action and may still perform the focus action this round."
I guess I don't really get the difference.
"After executing a green maneuver, you may perform a free focus action."
So what's the difference between being awarded a free token and being able to perform a free focus action. I found this blurb on the wiki that says,
"If a card ability instructs a player to assign a focus token to a ship, this is different than performing a focus action. The ship is assigned the token without performing an action and may still perform the focus action this round."
I guess I don't really get the difference.
An "assign a focus token" (or wathever other thing) is just that: assign the token without any other implication and it can happen multiple times in a turn if the trigger happens more than once.
A "free focus action" is... an action. That means it can only happen once in a turn as you can't do the same action twice, and also means it can't happen if you already did a regular focus action (or you couldn't do your regular focus action if you did first the free one).
The "free action" thing is just a way to tell apart the actions that come from cards and game effects instead the ship's action bar.
Yup. That's why I said the tester comment. When the reddit thread was published, it didn't pass 20 minutes of WhatsApp discussion in our main x-wing group that I had a couple PM's from *very* reliable guys confirming that they were actually real. It's a mess.
A "free focus action" is... an action. That means it can only happen once in a turn as you can't do the same action twice, and also means it can't happen if you already did a regular focus action (or you couldn't do your regular focus action if you did first the free one).
The "free action" thing is just a way to tell apart the actions that come from cards and game effects instead the ship's action bar.
Yup. That's why I said the tester comment. When the reddit thread was published, it didn't pass 20 minutes of WhatsApp discussion in our main x-wing group that I had a couple PM's from *very* reliable guys confirming that they were actually real. It's a mess.
matt360
Member
Thanks for he quick response. So with Night Beast, I could do the free focus action, get a focus token, and then still do another action from my action bar that's not focus?
They should change the entire process to be more public facing in that case. Just release the test rules for anyone to try but they are not official and cannot be used in any official tournaments. That way everyone is on the same level. Then the real playtesters can gather way more real data from real players and feed that back to FFG.
Because right now, unless you're best mates with a top level player, you're gonna get continuously blindsided by these new rules.
I actually played a guy at a regional a year or so ago and it was a week after the first triple jump nerf and he was running the list with all the appropriate changes and was absolutely destroying people. When I faced him I asked him how he felt about the nerf and he casually said that he'd been playtesting the changes for a few months now so knew how to deal with it, only thing he didn't know was when the ruling was to become official.
matt360
Member
Awesome, thanks! I've got it now.
Well that's fair. =\
I don't understand the chance to Advanced SLAM. Sabine was pretty obviously what pushed bombs over the edge. So why not target that instead? All this does is hurt the viability of K-Wings not named Miranda, which is not something the game needs.sooooo
Any thoughts?
Atanni Mindlink change destroys a lot of lists and might still be viable on the tournament winning three ship builds. Yay?
Jumpmaster change feels like overkill.
These all seem like pretty haphazard changes.