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[SappYoda]

I've always thought that frame generation was the worst possible direction gpu makers could take for videogames. With the new update from steam which shows the actual framerate when using frame generation we can see the actual cost of enabling the feature.

Someone has gone and tested many nvidia gpu's (although I believe that this happens the same for amd and intel fg tech). The video shows how in some cases it can even lower your framerate to almost half.



Higher framerates is not bigger numbers but to lower latency and have a more responsive game.

And yes I'm aware some third party tools allow to render the game on one gpu and then generate frames with another. However that is not the majority of users of this technology.

 

[The Cockatrice]

 

[Crayon]

I think it's mainly for people who buy hi refresh monitors but not the GPU to drive it. Odd solution but if the alternative is spending twice as much in your already expensive GPU then I get it. No appeal for me as the game isn't running any faster. Or it's running a little slower, as the case may be.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I've always thought that frame generation was the worst possible direction gpu makers could take for videogames. With the new update from steam which shows the actual framerate when using frame generation we can see the actual cost of enabling the feature.

Someone has gone and tested many nvidia gpu's (although I believe that this happens the same for amd and intel fg tech). The video shows how in some cases it can even lower your framerate to almost half.



The whole point of higher framerates is not bigger numbers but to lower latency and have a more responsive game.

And yes I'm aware some third party tools allow to render the game on one gpu and then generate frames with another. However that is not the majority of users of this technology.

It's not really news that there's a performance cost for enabling frame generation, anything below a 4090 takes a considerable hit enabling it.

 

[nemiroff]

Ok...

 

[FMX]

Who didn't see this coming?

 

[zeroluck]

Took these tech illiterates 3 years to notice? If it weren't for Steam overlay they would never know.

 

[mèx]

This is no news, we already know that. You can just measure the normal framerate vs FGx2 divided by 2 and see the ratio. I've done that ages ago.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I need to check out this new Steam Overlay. I assume it's out of beta and in the regular release?

 

[Sanepar]

I will never buy a nvidia gpu again. My next pc will be zen6 + udna.

 

[Pop]

Yes

This is known. You lose a little of your base frame rate but then frame gen doubles that. Frame Gen has a slight processing cost

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Yes

This is known. You lose a little of your base frame rate but then frame gen doubles that. Frame Gen has a slight processing cost

Yep its fake outrage to farm youtube revanue..

 

[ReasonBeing]

Breaking news: Tech that holds frames, so that it may insert generated frames, effects responsiveness.

 

[bender]

#Native4LifeSon

 

[Kilau]

Yep its fake outrage to farm youtube revanue..

Fake outrage for fake frames.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The more you spend, the less you get.

 

[yamaci17]

i really hated the fact that ac shadows, alan wake 2 and black myth wukong don't let you enable reflex (i guess they patched black myth now)
i really really hope it wasn't intentional or it really is petty

 

[Guardian Monkey]

We are only in the second gen of this, for controller use I haven't had problems with it. It still creates a more fluid motion than the native for supported versions. Its only going to get better.

 

[analog_future]

The whole point of higher framerates is not bigger numbers but to lower latency and have a more responsive game.

Wrong.

The point of higher framerates depends on what the user is looking to get out of it. Many people primarily want image fluidity/motion clarity and are okay if the latency feels like 50fps even though the display looks like 100fps.

I will never buy a nvidia gpu again. My next pc will be zen6 + udna.

AMD GPUs have frame generation too, you know.

 

[Knightime_X]

Using framegen when you can't even use it to it's fullest hurts your own experience.
Aiming for anything over 120hz is also dumb.
If you have a 240hz monitor and you're getting 120fps natively, just which your monitor to 120hz and save yourself some latency.
You can't tell the difference anyways.

 

[winjer]

The whole point of higher framerates is not bigger numbers but to lower latency and have a more responsive game.

Frame generation has never been about lowering latency. In fact, it always increases it, because there is an overhead for the GPU to process the new frame.
What reduces latency are technologies like Nvidia's Reflex, AMD's AntiLag, LatencyFlex.

Also consider that Vex is not a reliable source. He makes a ton of mistakes and says a lot of bullshit for clicks and views.

 

[Astray]

If you are playing a singleplayer game that isn't reflex-intensive, then it's ok to trade some real life fps for smoother feel.

 

[Rush2112]

Frame generation restricting frame rates. Perfect irony.

 

[Black_Stride]

Right from the opening statement the guy got it wrong.

FrameGen doesnt make the game "feel" smoother.
It makes the game "look" smoother.

What FrameGen does is bring visual smoothness, there is a cost and without(with too) Reflex the actual "feel" will be worse because the game is internally rendering/updating at a lower framerate and as FrameGen comes with a cost it will feel from a latency perspective worse than without.

This is not news, everyone including Nvidia told us FrameGen had a cost, they told us its called 2x but that doesnt mean every situation will be exactly 2x framerate, same with 3x and 4x.

What are we even doing here boys....what are we doing?

 

[kevboard]

this is only news to extremely uninformed people tbh.

 

[proandrad]

Wrong.

The point of higher framerates depends on what the user is looking to get out of it. Many people primarily want image fluidity and are okay if the latency feels like 50fps even though the display looks like 100fps.

This. Higher FPS for most people is used for motion clarity. Lower input lag is a nice bonus. There are many other ways to reduce your input lag. Motion clarity only improves with increased fps or with BFI to try to mimic higher fps.

 

[owandeseis]

What a weird video? this was known since day 1, FGen has a cost on GPU, so you lose some FPS before the 2x or 4x gain, this is not the case on CPU bound games tho, if your GPU can handle 100 FPS on a game but your CPU can only handle 60 FPS and this is your actual framerate, your won't lose any performance before the 2x FPS gain.

The whole point of higher framerates is not bigger numbers but to lower latency and have a more responsive game.

This is also laughable, sure, input latency matters, but the whole point?



Check the huge loss on motion clarity on the 30 FPS video vs the 60 FPS one, that's why almost always it's better to lower graphical settings to get higher FPS, not just latency, but because in motion, the higher the FPS is, the better it looks.

Check Ghost of Yotei SoP video for example, the DPad is barely used, or just used very slowly, to not showcase the loss on motion clarity, the best looking scenes are with the character either standing still or simply moving forward, this "trick" is used by pretty much every big AAA company showing their games, and the reason isn't about game responsivity

 

[daninthemix]

I mean, if you have another effective way of filling up the 240hz of my OLED screen on modern games like Stellar Blade, I'm all ears.

 

[dave_d]

Motion clarity only improves with increased fps or with BFI to try to mimic higher fps.

Or rolling scan to simulate how CRTs update a screen.(But arguably that's a more complex version of BFI)

 

[Sentenza]

I mean, did they think frame generation was a zero-effort computational task?
This is like people suddenly discovering that video capture software lowered their performances.

 

[Itchy Tickles]

I need to check out this new Steam Overlay. I assume it's out of beta and in the regular release?

Yeah its been out for like a week as a full release. Just turn it on in the Steam settings and set your hotkey preference or stick to default.

 

[Gaiff]

i really hated the fact that ac shadows, alan wake 2 and black myth wukong don't let you enable reflex (i guess they patched black myth now)
i really really hope it wasn't intentional or it really is petty

In BMW, Reflex was turned on with FG, meaning you could only enable it with GeForce 40 GPUs and above. Not sure if it had changed.

 

[SappYoda]

This is also laughable, sure, input latency matters, but the whole point?

Saying the whole point is indeed a hyperbole I removed it. It is what is the most importat to me.

About motion clarity, I understand it can be important however I think the solution should not come at the cost of latency. Like I mentioned there are solutions that allow frame generation without any cost.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I think it's mainly for people who buy hi refresh monitors but not the GPU to drive it. Odd solution but if the alternative is spending twice as much in your already expensive GPU then I get it. No appeal for me as the game isn't running any faster. Or it's running a little slower, as the case may be.

It's hard to buy a quality monitor nowadays that isn't high refresh though. Even the $500 OLEDs are 1440p/240hz. I don't think I've seen anything recently below 165hz even from brands like Sansui that sell $100 gaming monitors (that are much better then they should be considering the price).

 

[Crayon]

It's hard to buy a quality monitor nowadays that isn't high refresh though. Even the $500 OLEDs are 1440p/240hz. I don't think I've seen anything recently below 165hz even from brands like Sansui that sell $100 gaming monitors (that are much better then they should be considering the price).

Yeah that should play into it. You may not set out trying to buy a high refresh monitor but you end up with one anyway.

 

[nkarafo]

I only want to use this tech with locked 60fps games that i can't unlock and also emulated games from consoles that are all naturally locked to 60hz.

Mostly because 120fps reduces LCD motion blur by a lot and makes the result come a bit closer to a CRT.

 

[T-Cake]

I will never buy a nvidia gpu again. My next pc will be zen6 + udna.

I had exactly the same thought. I can't understand why Intel is using efficiency cores in desktop CPUs and nVidia is just being greedy as fuck. AMD all the way for me next time.

 

[Black_Stride]

Like I mentioned there are solutions that allow frame generation without any cost.

FrameGen for zero cost to latency?

How is that possible?
And dont say the TV handles it because that does add latency.

Holding a frame in buffer will be faster than holding it out.

 

[bbeach123]

From my testing it goes from 1.55 to 1.7 when using x2 mode (vary game to game , mhwild was 1.55). Aka perf loss from 25% to 15% when using dlfg . Less base fps also meant more latency .

This is why lossless scaling dual gpu getting more popular , you can get x2 without drop with it . It feel better than dlssfg too because I think when your single gpu hitting 100% usage your frame gen latency getting a bit higher too.

 

[owandeseis]

Saying the whole point is indeed a hyperbole I removed it. It is what is the most importat to me.

About motion clarity, I understand it can be important however I think the solution should not come at the cost of latency. Like I mentioned there are solutions that allow frame generation without any cost.

Hmm i don't think that's possible on any GPU bound game scenario, when it's the CPU doing the bottleneck it is tho, of course you'll still get some artifacts but you won't lose any FPS before the 2x gain since it's the GPU doing that task.

About the latency cost, yes that'd be ideal, but we're not there yet, and having the option to choose between better responsivity or better motion clarity is great actually.

Not every game benefits the same from a very low input latency, i've used FG on games where it was a bless doing so, and i tried it in others where i did just put it down.

Still haven't found a game where it was worth to use it starting from under 60 FPS while using KB + mouse sadly, hope we'll get there some day.

 

[Holammer]

There's no such thing as a free lunch nor free FG.
Personally I use it for games where physics break above a certain framerate or where framerate options are limited, like old games or emulation.

 

[Kenpachii]

I am a framegen enjoyer. My requirement is 100+ fps with framegen 2x, and 200+ fps with framegen 4x.

That framegen costs base fps was known since day one.

 

[Futaleufu]

Fake frames for fake gamers

 

[Buggy Loop]

Duh?

Like I mentioned there are solutions that allow frame generation without any cost.

bullshit

Don't even bother replying with a post process FG, they are terrible.

 

[Durin]

Frame gen is a feature that gets marketed without its limitations, so people end up using it having a bad experience.

It's only useful if you have a high frame-rate monitor that's going above 100fps, if you can get input latency similar to 60fps you might prefer the better motion clarity...or if the game is something slow and turn-based who cares.

I just want the better nvidia reflex, because that's at least them improving input performance with trickery.

 

[CrustyBritches]

 

[Black_Stride]

Frame gen is a feature that gets marketed without its limitations, so people end up using it having a bad experience.

It's only useful if you have a high frame-rate monitor that's going above 100fps, if you can get input latency similar to 60fps you might prefer the better motion clarity...or if the game is something slow and turn-based who cares.

I just want the better nvidia reflex, because that's at least them improving input performance with trickery.

I don't think Nvidia has ever show framegen on from below 60.

 

[Durin]

I don't think Nvidia has ever show framegen on from below 60.

Not talking about Nvidia, but more how devs will advertise game performance with it. Like Monster Hunter Wilds this year listing its Steam recommended requirements for their game saying you should expect to get 1080p/60fps with frame-gen enabled...who who ever want that mess?

 

[mèx]

I am a framegen enjoyer. My requirement is 100+ fps with framegen 2x, and 200+ fps with framegen 4x.

That framegen costs base fps was known since day one.

Yeah, with this FG works pretty well in general. I was able to almost max out my monitor refresh rate (480hz) in Stellar Blade with 3x frame gen without too many artifacts, aside with some transparencies here and there (those are always hard for FG). The smoothness was just incredible.

 

[Fafalada]

It's not really news that there's a performance cost for enabling frame generation, anything below a 4090 takes a considerable hit enabling it.

The hit being that substantial kinda is news.
Oculus did it in 2016 at less than 10% cost on GPUs of the era, and that solution actually lowered motion input latency as well.