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[Burger]

So this was on UK telly last night:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-paedophile-hunter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2POoHWbBwrQ&feature=youtu.be

An hour long documentary about a 32 year old man who goes by the name Stinson Hunter. He baits paedophiles online, making sure the man knows they are underage then carries on the conversation eventually convincing them to meet up. The subsequent videos are posted online, with transcripts and videos handed over to police. It's not entrapment, it's a simple but effective honeypot.

I thought it was a totally compelling and incredible documentary. I was as nervous as they were waiting for a paedo to show up at the front door. One comment by Stinson when asked about a man who committed suicide shortly afterwards was "I didn't do that, he did, I simply held the mirror up."

I couldn't help but admire the man, like he said, these men approach him through his various fake profiles and incriminate themselves. I find it incredible that people like army seargents, barristers, teachers etc feel it's okay to have a sexual conversation with what they are told is an 11 or 13 year old girl. It's abhorrent.

Sorry US folk, not sure how you can watch it online, but you can watch some nonce videos here:

https://www.facebook.com/stinsonhunterofficial

 

[Ferrio]

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

 

[freddy]

Fair enough. Good for them.

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

No, the paedophiles can fuck right off, they are going there to have sex with kids.

 

[Nicktendo86]

He seemed seriously messed up, was in care as a child and refused to answer if he had been molested himself. While the stuff he does is honourable he is stupid to post it online and potentially affect prosecutions.

But my god, some of the people he trapped. Chilling to think they could have met real children.

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

Whilst you have a point about mental illness these were 40odd year old men going with bottles.of alcohol to have sex with what they thought were 11 year old girls. One even thought she was disabled. The safetly of kids must be out above all else.

 

[Burger]

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

They need convicting, which is what happens to them thanks to this guy. It's acknowledged that he has a higher conviction ratio than the Child Protection Services undercover division.

If you watched to doco you would see the kind of sick shit these guys are sending to what they think are young children. It's unbelievable.

 

[UrbanRats]

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

Can't watch the video now, but if you're willing to "meet up" you're already in a predatory state of mind.

They should still receive help after the arrest though, like any criminal should, but that's another topic.

I really dislike any attempt at vigilante justice, but at least this guy hands things over to the police, to let them deal with it. (from the description in the OP).

 

[Ferrio]

Can't watch the video now, but if you're willing to "meet up" you're already in a predatory state of mind.

They should still receive help after the arrest though, like any criminal should, but that's another topic.

I really dislike any attempt at vigilante justice, but at least this guy hands things over to the police, to let them deal with it. (from the description in the OP).

If he just handed to the police I'd be okay with it, but the videos online is scummy as shit.

 

[Volimar]

Can't watch the video now, but if you're willing to "meet up" you're already in a predatory state of mind.

They should still receive help after the arrest though, like any criminal should, but that's another topic.

I really dislike any attempt at vigilante justice, but at least this guy hands things over to the police, to let them deal with it. (from the description in the OP).

The OP says the guy convinced them to meet. Who knows if these guys would ever have physically acted on their own. I'd prefer the dangerous ones in jail rather than on the street, but I'd rather all of them were getting some sort of psychological help instead of talked into acting on their urges.

 

[War Peaceman]

This is incredibly sinister. We need to start treating paedophilia as the mental disease it is rather than humiliating those affected by it. Though at the same time, actual sex-offenders need to face punishment and rehabilitation.

On a different note, I was expecting something along the lines of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkO2_LdgSas

 

[norinrad]

Shaming them in public is kind of going to far.

 

[Burger]

This is incredibly sinister. We need to start treating paedophilia as the mental disease it is rather than humiliating those affected by it. Though at the same time, actual sex-offenders need to face punishment and rehabilitation.

On a different note, I was expecting something along the lines of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkO2_LdgSas

The problem is that these guys don't seek help for their mental state of mind, they send videos of themselves masturbating to 11 year old autistic children then turn up at the front door with a bottle of wine.

 

[Htown]

Yeah, poor guys, they thought they were going to go have sex with a kid and instead they got shamed in public. How terrible for them.

If it was possible to have less than zero sympathy for someone, I would.

 

[UrbanRats]

The OP says the guy convinced them to meet. Who knows if these guys would ever have physically acted on their own. I'd prefer the dangerous ones in jail rather than on the street, but I'd rather all of them were getting some sort of psychological help instead of talked into acting on their urges.

I don't disagre with your second point, but if you're a pedo that isn't intent on molesting any children, you shouldn't be convinced by (what you think is) an 11 years old on a random chat, infact, you shouldn't even be interacting with them in that manner, in the first place.

I still think most forms of vigilante justice are a terrible slippery slope so i won't say this is the best course of action, just pointing out the difference between a case of someone *just* being affected by the disorder, and someone actually willing to act upon it.

 

[War Peaceman]

The problem is that these guys don't seek help for their mental state of mind, they send videos of themselves masturbating to 11 year old autistic children then turn up at the front door with a bottle of wine.

Obviously I'm not endorsing this kind of behaviour, but the attitudes towards paedophilia must make it very difficult for those affected to seek help.

 

[freddy]

Obviously I'm not endorsing this kind of behaviour, but the attitudes towards paedophilia must make it very difficult for those affected to seek help.

Seems like they had enough will power to turn up to the door of a kid they were about to fuck, but too cowardly to seek professional help. No fucks are given about any of these arseholes.

 

[Devolution]

My ability to think "wow these people need help" gets murky when, instead of therapy, they're trying to stick their dicks in children.

 

[squidyj]

what does this remind me of?

Oh, right.

 

[ghostjoke]

I can understand treatment being a preferable option but if Stinson's work prevents a child from molestation all the power to him. If they're willing to dedicate the time to chatting up and travelling to have sex with a pre-teen, doesn't seem like treatment is on their mind.

 

[Burger]

Obviously I'm not endorsing this kind of behaviour, but the attitudes towards paedophilia must make it very difficult for those affected to seek help.

"Attitudes towards paedophilia"?

The issue seems to be that these guys know how dangerous their behaviour is yet do not seek help, they seek children. They need to be lured out into the open where they can be prosecuted/treated. The police simply do not have the resources to do this, which is why a civilian like Stinson seems to have no end of nonces knocking on his door.

 

[SmokyDave]

My ability to think "wow these people need help" gets murky when, instead of therapy, they're trying to stick their dicks in children.

They do need help though, for the benefit of all of us.

We're nowhere near ready to extend a hand though. Understandably, too. Shit's abhorrent. Maybe another 100 years and we'll start looking into why these people want to fuck kids and what we can do to change that. Gonna be some huge ethical hurdles along the way, I reckon.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

My sister was telling me about this programme. I will take a look at it when I get back from university.

 

[Enco]

This + To Catch a Predator are just too creepy.

Why bother with all this? Why show it on TV? Why show it to the public?

Wouldn't be surprised if the guy did it for the sense of superiority + fame.

 

[Moff]

yes, pedophiles are sick
yes, they need help

but not all of them seek that help but act on their desires. and thats very, very bad.
I dont think putting it online is necessary. the only sad thing is that this guy is doing the police's work. if its that easy to catch a predator, why are the police not actively doing this more?

 

[Burger]

This + To Catch a Predator are just too creepy.

Why bother with all this? Why show it on TV? Why show it to the public?

Wouldn't be surprised if the guy did it for the sense of superiority + fame.

If you get a chance to watch the doco I recommend it. He says he was a piece of shit when he was younger and did a stint in prison for arson. He breaks down in tears when he learns of his first conviction, saying that it validates the work he does. A judge and jury believing him over a teacher clearly meant a lot to him.

 

[Dabanton]

Stinson and his helpers are like a Chris Morris parody made flesh. I remember when he and a few other pedo hunting groups were a fairly big thing in the UK back in 2012.

 

[barit]

The same thing happened here on German TV. RTL 2 had similar show going on last year iirc. They tricked pedo´s to a date over the Internet (kids chat rooms are the preferred playground for pedos) and then outing them as much as possible (ofc faces were always pixel´d). It was super interesting because they showed which tricks pedo´s use to get kids into their house/bed. It ranks from lying to blackmailing. Extreme dark stuff when you get deeper into this disgusting world but it was very informative for parents and everybody else.

But here comes the really sad thing. RTL2 had to stop the show after just 4 episodes because some fucking pedo´s felt threatened and don´t wanted that their tricks get out to the public. The lawsuit got granted and so RTL2 had to stop it. What fucking society i´m living in where pedos can prevent educations ? This was the first time i felt ashamed for my country. The rights of a pedo has more weight than the rights of a children ? Fuck this shit

 

[seb_n]

It was very clear from the documentary that he had some very serious issues himself, the reaction when he heard that his evidence had secured that first conviction was very telling.

Whilst no-one would ever condone what these blokes were doing, i am not sure it is right that he then puts the footage out publicly. I think he should gather then evidence and then give that to the proper authorities, he even received a letter at the end from the police stating why he should not be doing what he is doing and asking him to stop doing it.

The fact that at the end it stated that one of the guys was questioned by police then released without charge basically shows why putting this stuff out to public is wrong. The guys name has been tarnished for good now.

Just to reiterate: I do not condone what any of the predatory guys were doing and they should be tried and charged to the full extent of the law.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Did you know

That a lot of pedophiles don't get help because they think that if they admit they have a problem, they will be shamed and their lives will be over. This perpetuates itself until it has been with the person for so long that they lose control. A lot of the time, these people themselves were abused or molested as children. Let's say that someone got molested by one of these people, and goes on to do the same to people when they are older because of that traumatic experience. The people you now claim to sympathize with immediately become abhorrent monsters. These videos, these exposes, they create a stigma that makes pedophiles worse because they hide it and let it get worse and worse until it explodes. These videos have no benefit for anyone, besides people looking for schlock schadenfreude joy.

 

[Tesseract]

i'm not sure we can help these people, you can't change who they are or what they're attracted to.

maybe sex robots are the answer, i dunno.

 

[A Link to the Past]

i'm not sure we can help these people, you can't change who they are or what they're attracted to.

What do you propose we do with pedophiles who have not acted on their urges?

EDIT: Further, what do these videos accomplish? Do they:

1. Increase awareness of pedophilia?
2. Encourage pedophiles to get treatment?
3. Reduce child molestation by any considerable degree?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

What do you propose we do with pedophiles who have not acted on their urges?

EDIT: Further, what do these videos accomplish? Do they:

1. Increase awareness of pedophilia?
2. Encourage pedophiles to get treatment?
3. Reduce child molestation by any considerable degree?

I guess the thinking is that they will terrify paedophiles into not trying to hook up with kids over the internet.

 

[cyberheater]

Really? These people need help, not being embarrassed to the point of committing suicide just so this asshole can make money/fame off it. Fuck him.

I can't believe you're on the side of the pedo. Shameful.

No, the paedophiles can fuck right off, they are going there to have sex with kids.

Totally agree.

Shaming them in public is kind of going to far.

Not nearly far enough.

 

[Burger]

Did you know

That a lot of pedophiles don't get help because they think that if they admit they have a problem, they will be shamed and their lives will be over. This perpetuates itself until it has been with the person for so long that they lose control. A lot of the time, these people themselves were abused or molested as children. Let's say that someone got molested by one of these people, and goes on to do the same to people when they are older because of that traumatic experience. The people you now claim to sympathize with immediately become abhorrent monsters. These videos, these exposes, they create a stigma that makes pedophiles worse because they hide it and let it get worse and worse until it explodes. These videos have no benefit for anyone, besides people looking for schlock schadenfreude joy.

Given that the relevant authorities do not have the resources to do what is necessary to actively prevent this type of behavior on such a scale, should we not do anything about it?

This guy is clearly doing what he does because not only does he think it's the right thing to do, but nobody else is doing anything about it. All of which is perfectly legal.

 

[Tesseract]

What do you propose we do with pedophiles who have not acted on their urges?

EDIT: Further, what do these videos accomplish? Do they:

1. Increase awareness of pedophilia?
2. Encourage pedophiles to get treatment?
3. Reduce child molestation by any considerable degree?

is unacted pedophilia a psychiatric disorder?

to your questions, i haven't the faintest idea.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I guess the thinking is that they will terrify pedophiles into not trying to hook up with kids over the internet.

This implies that pedophiles wake up thinking, "I wonder how many kids I can molest today..."

A pedophile who actively has to resist these urges - a common type of pedophile - is going to have the same struggle, with or without stuff like To Catch a Predator. What that argument is, is basically the deterrent argument. The greatest punishment a person could receive is not a good deterrent to stop people from murdering - do you think that people with an illness will be deterred to not act on that illness because of stuff like this?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Given that the relevant authorities do not have the resources to do what is necessary to actively prevent this type of behavior on such a scale, should we not do anything about it?

This guy is clearly doing what he does because not only does he think it's the right thing to do, but nobody else is doing anything about it. All of which is perfectly legal.

So the only way to stop pedophilia is to post videos online? No human being has ever made a "To Catch a Predator"-type series and truly had a common good in mind. This is just some guy looking for some way to be a hero. All of zero people benefit from this public shaming, and in posting it, it creates an incentive to NOT seek help.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

This implies that pedophiles wake up thinking, "I wonder how many kids I can molest today..."

A pedophile who actively has to resist these urges - a common type of pedophile - is going to have the same struggle, with or without stuff like To Catch a Predator. What that argument is, is basically the deterrent argument. The greatest punishment a person could receive is not a good deterrent to stop people from murdering - do you think that people with an illness will be deterred to act on that illness because of stuff like this?

I honestly don't know. Was just trying to explain the thinking behind the public shaming tactics. I can imagine being outed like this is more frightening than just being caught by the police.

 

[Burger]

So the only way to stop pedophilia is to post videos online? No human being has ever made a "To Catch a Predator"-type series and truly had a common good in mind. This is just some guy looking for some way to be a hero. All of zero people benefit from this public shaming, and in posting it, it creates an incentive to NOT seek help.

No I was asking you what your solution is. Given your resources are effectively £0.

Watch the documentary before you judge the guy. If he makes people and parents aware how common it is for kids to be groomed online then it's a good thing in my mind. He has stated he was uneasy about his face being shown on the documentary, I'm pretty certain he isn't doing this to become some sort of hero (even though a large part of Britain may consider him one).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I caught bits of it and I have to say, the hunter guy felt off to me. Almost like he trying to exorcise some personal demons by trying to catch all these other guys who were interested in having sex with under-age girls.

Probably read too much into though.

 

[TheSpoiler]

So the only way to stop pedophilia is to post videos online? No human being has ever made a "To Catch a Predator"-type series and truly had a common good in mind. This is just some guy looking for some way to be a hero. All of zero people benefit from this public shaming, and in posting it, it creates an incentive to NOT seek help.

I don't know, the whole "stopping these guys from trying to molest kids" is probably a good thing, even if the intent isn't so pure.

And, to the people saying that the pedos are more likely to hide once these shows come out, TCaP did an episode where various people had already seen the program, but then decided to ignore it in favor of t he molestation part. The show's existence isn't a deterrent to them, but a highlight on watching your kids and keeping them away from this shit more and more.

At least now these "sick people" can appear in front of a judge and let the court system do what it needs to. I'd love to see a better method, like anyone, but right now it just doesn't exist.

 

[A Link to the Past]

A great solution is to not turn child abuse into fun popular media. The fact that he was trying to get pedophiles who were actively seeking children to molest isn't the problem - it's that he made a public spectacle of the fact. This does not help anyone - everyone already knows what's going on with their neighbor, who they thought was such a good person. It doesn't make people do it less. Why did he have to post it? It's not for information value, it's for shock.

I honestly don't know. Was just trying to explain the thinking behind the public shaming tactics. I can imagine being outed like this is more frightening than just being caught by the police.

That's probably true - which is why people don't out themselves. It creates the impression that attempting to get help will ruin your life, and people - as they are wont to do - will hide it until it bottles up to the surface and explodes.

.

Here's your method right here:

"Do the recon, don't publicly shame people for attention." TCAP doesn't exist unless it makes money, and it makes a lot of money. Tons. It's a super popular program. They're not doing it to protect people, they're doing it for the same reason people make a video featuring "thing you didn't know your bartender was doing!" People love shock videos, and TCAP was created to tap into that market.

 

[StayDead]

Obviously I'm not endorsing this kind of behaviour, but the attitudes towards paedophilia must make it very difficult for those affected to seek help.

That's what I've always viewed the problem as. Especially in the UK it's almost impossible for someone to go and get help for something like this without being outed and shamed in the media and most likely thrown in jail. It's happened in the past and it's not really the best way of going about it. Whether you want to accept it or not, peadophillia is a thing that exists and trying to either ignore it or shame anyone who's unlucky enough to suffer from it will not help anyone. People don't choose what they're attracted to and even though in this case it's very wrong, we used to treat gay people in exactly the same way.

It's not exactly the same situation as one is with a child and one is an attraction to people of the same sex, but much as gay people don't choose to be gay, peadophiles don't choose to be peadophiles (well atleast that's what I choose to believe anyway as I can't think anyone within their right mind in todays society would turn around and choose to be attracted to children). Sexual attraction is hardwired into us from the minute we hit puberty. People get attracted to different things and there's even people on this planet who can't get turned on by anything but inanimate objects (see the people who are sexually attracted to cars) and as horrible and abhorrent as some of them are, we need to live in a society that can accept they have an issue and need help without publically shaming them, because that either leads to suicide or them being thrown in jail. That achieves nothing and all it leads to is people bottling up their problem and then going to act out on it which leads to people, children being hurt.

 

[TheSpoiler]

A great solution is to not turn child abuse into fun popular media. The fact that he was trying to get pedophiles who were actively seeking children to molest isn't the problem - it's that he made a public spectacle of the fact. This does not help anyone - everyone already knows what's going on with their neighbor, who they thought was such a good person. It doesn't make people do it less. Why did he have to post it? It's not for information value, it's for shock.



That's probably true - which is why people don't out themselves. It creates the impression that attempting to get help will ruin your life, and people - as they are wont to do - will hide it until it bottles up to the surface and explodes.

Also, really? Here's your method right here:

"Do the recon, don't publicly shame people for attention." TCAP doesn't exist unless it makes money, and it makes a lot of money. Tons. It's a super popular program. They're not doing it to protect people, they're doing it for the same reason people make a video featuring "thing you didn't know your bartender was doing!" People love shock videos, and TCAP was created to tap into that market.

How do you know it's not for information value? I mean, really, that's what most of these are aimed at (shock or not) - it's to inform parents. I don't disagree with your point about finding help, but these people actively sought out and attempted to act on their urges.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to find a way to help instead of throwing stones, but it's not like these things are doing the world a terrible slight.

Edit: We can argue the intent of these shows all day and we'll get nowhere. The point of the matter is, the end result would have been horrible if these people with urges reached the house. Making it a spectacle probably isn't right, but then again, the information gained for parents and making people aware is the positive trade off. We need a better solution for the end result, but in the meantime, simply letting it slide isn't going to work either. I think this is where I'll end my discussion in this topic,.

 

[A Link to the Past]

That's what I've always viewed the problem as. Especially in the UK it's almost impossible for someone to go and get help for something like this without being outed and shamed in the media and most likely thrown in jail. It's happened in the past and it's not really the best way of going about it. Whether you want to accept it or not, peadophillia is a thing that exists and trying to either ignore it or shame anyone who's unlucky enough to suffer from it will not help anyone. People don't choose what they're attracted to and even though in this case it's very wrong, we used to treat gay people in exactly the same way.

It's not exactly the same situation as one is with a child and one is an attraction to people of the same sex, but much as gay people don't choose to be gay, peadophiles don't choose to be peadophiles I'd imagine. I can't think anyone within their right mind in todays society would turn around and choose to be attracted to children.

I just want to clarify that StayDead is not equating homosexuality - a natural thing - with pedophilia, which is almost universally a product of trauma. Merely making the argument that pedophiles aren't choosing to feel these urges.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I swear they already aired this show back in 2001

 

[stilgar]

is unacted pedophilia a psychiatric disorder?

to your questions, i haven't the faintest idea.

Chemical straitjackets.

 

[StayDead]

I just want to clarify that StayDead is not equating homosexuality - a natural thing - with pedophilia, which is almost universally a product of trauma. Merely making the argument that pedophiles aren't choosing to feel these urges.

I am somewhat equating it because sexual attraction is something that is hardwired into your brain. Don't forget a long time ago that having sex with children was seen as a perfectly normal thing to do and in some societies today it still is sadly.

The way people (who do not choose to be peadophiles) are treated is very similar to how we treated gay people to as close as 50 years ago where in the UK you could be jailed for being outed as a homosexual. I'm not saying having an attraction to children is right or that being gay is wrong, but we need to do more to help people who suffer the attractions that are illegal and wrong by law rather than outing, shaming and ruining their lives. People do not choose what their brain gets aroused by.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How do you know it's not for information value? I mean, really, that's what most of these are aimed at (shock or not) - it's to inform parents. I don't disagree with your point about finding help, but these people actively sought out and attempted to act on their urges.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to find a way to help instead of throwing stones, but it's not like these things are doing the world a terrible slight.

Edit: We can argue the intent of these shows all day and we'll get nowhere. The point of the matter is, the end result would have been horrible if these people with urges reached the house. Making it a spectacle probably isn't right, but then again, the information gained for parents and making people aware is the positive trade off. We need a better solution for the end result, but in the meantime, simply letting it slide isn't going to work either. I think this is where I'll end my discussion in this topic,.

The parents already know this. They aren't learning, they're gaining joy. It trivializes something that is really serious, and something that real activists - activists who understand why public shaming is harmful to the cause of "catching predators." It makes people afraid being caught, but it doesn't make them stop. They can accomplish the same thing by doing purely educational pieces and distributing them responsibly, and they could even keep their program going without airing it, in effect.

 

[Tesseract]

I am somewhat equating it because sexual attraction is something that is hardwired into your brain. Don't forget a long time ago that having sex with children was seen as a perfectly normal thing to do and in some societies today it still is sadly.

The way people (who do not choose to be peadophiles) are treated is very similar to how we treated gay people to as close as 50 years ago where in the UK you could be jailed for being outed as a homosexual. I'm not saying having an attraction to children is right or that being gay is wrong, but we need to do more to help people who suffer the attractions that are illegal and wrong by law rather than outing, shaming and ruining their lives. People do not choose what their brain gets aroused by.

i think this is the bottom line, and one that people look past because it's an ugly truth

 

[Burger]

The parents already know this. They aren't learning, they're gaining joy. It trivializes something that is really serious, and something that real activists - activists who understand why public shaming is harmful to the cause of "catching predators." It makes people afraid being caught, but it doesn't make them stop. They can accomplish the same thing by doing purely educational pieces and distributing them responsibly, and they could even keep their program going without airing it, in effect.

It's pretty clear that:

1) These people know that what they are doing is dangerous as shit, and they are terrified of being caught already.
2) Getting a leaflet through the door saying "Being a paedo is bad" will not stop them.
3) This is irrational behavior, in that you don't think clearly. Your sick desires consume you and you feel compelled to act on them.
4) Education will not prevent these crimes.
5) As a soon to be parent I was fucking shocked at what I saw. There was not a moment of joy to be gained from watching this documentary.