Support NeoGAF

[Jag]

America's white nationalists are getting as brave as ours here in the UK.

They have always been around and always vocal. Social Media just gives them a bigger platform.

I don't think something like this should be covered under the free speech act you guys have but I don't know enough about the laws of the country to say that with any authority/certainty

I do think it should be covered and I'm one of the people they want to kill, supposedly. I support all speech (except that which incites immediate or actual harm) because I think it is incredibly dangerous for the government to be in the business of deciding what is and isn't appropriate speech. Today that may benefit me, tomorrow it might not.

I'm 100% for punishment for steps taken to commit a crime, but I will defend hate speech even if it's targeted towards me.

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

Just a few of the reasons.

 

[Verelios]

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

This is a genuinely weird observation, is there ever a reason for any form of racism?

 

[Killer Queen]

People can change their minds on their politics sure, but when their guiding principle is to take a bullet to a minorities brain, freaking die for it and then double down on spreading hate to a larger contingent of youths, I'm loathe to believe I should just let it all be water under the bridge as 'youthfullness'. If they do go forward with their misguided ideas are you still going to blame their age and immaturity?

Again, not saying what they did is okay, I'm saying that I hope they grow up and realize how stupid this sentiment is and that writing of teenagers that still have a lot of growing to do as "too far gone" is silly. maybe some of them are, but if Derrick Black can change then i don't see why others would be unable to, especially when his environment growing up was a lot more hardcore.

 

[i-Lo]

Ah, it's just youthful indiscretion.

Spoiler

(As long as you're white &/or well off).

This is just fucked.

What was that one line by Kiefer Sutherland in "A Time to Kill"?

"The Klan has always been right there, under the surface, just waiting for the opportunity to deliver God's justice."

Indeed, America. Indeed. Your country is fucked.

"Greatest Country in the World"™

 

[clemenx]

This may be a good place to ask but why the hell white supremacists hate Jews so much? I'd never understood that, is there a particular reason?

 

[JordanN]

This may be a good place to ask but why the hell white supremacists hate Jews so much? I'd never understood that, is there a particular reason?

Because they worship Hitler who pinned all the worlds problems on Jews and tried to genocide them.

 

[RocknRola]

Tough shit bro. Now you get to be racist and uneducated! Way to go!

Zero sympathy from me for these sort of people.

 

[Amalthea]

Because they worship Hitler who pinned all the worlds problems on Jews and tried to genocide them.

That didn't just start with Hitler. Anti-Semitism has a many centuries long history.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

This is a genuinely weird observation, is there ever a reason for any form of racism?

I'm not particularly surprised that people act shitty towards people who look differently from them.

People have their reasons for things. Whether or not they are any good is entirely different.

 

[StayDead]

one of its leaders allegedly committed suicide, reportedly to “show his allegiance to the [Nazi] party and the killing of Jewish people

I know these people are really stupid, but what kind of logic is this?

 

[m_dorian]

There are kids, they need to be educated. Give them another chance.
If he son of Stormfront founder changed so can they.

 

[watershed]

These students should be closely watched following their expulsion. The whole thing screams cult. They might actually do something violent.

 

[maruchan]

I guess this kids have more time to post on the_donald and /pol/

 

[-KRS-]

Wait so was the guy who killed himself jewish?

 

[ChouGoku]

Would not expect this in Boulder of all places in Colorado

 

[What did he mean by this?]

To prove your hardcore and down for the gang.....you commit suicide?..........................

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

It's because they need someone to blame for them being poor despite being white and superior.

 

[Cerium]

one of its leaders allegedly committed suicide, reportedly to “show his allegiance to the [Nazi] party and the killing of Jewish people”, a police report said.

Talk about a problem that solves itself.

 

[SmackAttack]

I truly feel bad for those who have so much hate in their heart for others just because they look different or practice a different religion (or any). It must be a sad way to live.

 

[shawnbuddy]

The kids are not alright. I used to take comfort in thinking that all the old racists would die off one day but it looks like a new generation is on the rise thanks to the alt-right.

 

[Dr.Acula]

"Just wait for all the bigoted old people to die," they said...

Now we got a new generation...

Stand by your friends
Wrong or right
Can't call that justice when
It's just a stupid excuse to fight
Single out and attack
The ones who got no defense
You call that a new way of thinking
I call it regression to ignorance

There's a new generation coming
And we really gotta stand up to them
Take warning, take warning

 

[Killer Queen]

The kids are not alright. I used to take comfort in thinking that all the old racists would die off one day but it looks like a new generation is on the rise thanks to the alt-right.

Let's be real:they'd exist with it without the alt right. Just under a different name. It's learned behavior and those that believe it will pass it along to others and thus the cycle will continue.

 

[Crash Station]

On the discussion of freedom of speech, I generally have a high threshold for what I believe is acceptable or not.

This is beyond that threshold. Except in VERY specific contexts, anything that can be construed as a threat like this (even if an empty one) should not be protected speech. I say that as someone that believes there is a VERY important distinction to be made with the statements "they should die" and "we should kill them".

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

Right there with you, buddy. We're friggin harmless

 

[The Lamp]

So now where do they go? These kids need to be educated out of their ignorance, or they will become voting nazi adults.

 

[Zukuu]

There is nothing "alt-right" about that, they are straight up little Neo-Nazi shitheads.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

So now where do they go? These kids need to be educated out of their ignorance, or they will become voting nazi adults.

This was my reaction as well. The only thing worse than a child full of hate is an adult full of hate.

 

[sphagnum]

This may be a good place to ask but why the hell white supremacists hate Jews so much? I'd never understood that, is there a particular reason?

Antisemitism has been around for millennia, mostly related to other religions. More secular Antisemitism stems from a couple different sources.

First of all, since Jews have historically been an exclusive people, they were always viewed as "others" and never an organic part of a given nation. If there were German Jews, they weren't Germans - they were Jews in Germany, as far as the Christians/whites were concerned. For nationalists and racial theorists, this obviously set them apart as suspicious. Why trust a group of "rootless cosmopolitans" who didn't share your culture and blood? Ironically, Jews often did try to integrate while maintaining their own culture, but the hostility towards them ensured their own distinctiveness.

Secondly, by being separate, there were certain things Jews were not allowed to do but certain other things they COULD do. For example, Christians were prohibited from usury, but Jews were not. This allowed some Jews to get involved in finance, leading to the stereotype of the "greedy Jew". This is also why European monarchs had "court Jews" to provide them funding. This led to conspiracy theories about secret globalist Jewish cabals, who want to control the world and rid it of their archnemesis, the whites, by breaking down their cultures through multiculturalism. This is why you see white supremacists constantly ranting about Jews being behind interracial marriage and immigration. They think that the successful Jews in the media and industry, who are proportionally overrepresented (since, you know, they strive to achieve to protect themselves), are trying to use their resources to destroy the (White) West.

For the Nazis it was sort of like that, since they believed the Jews were behind both capitalism and communism in a scheme to destroy European culture, since both are global in nature rather than national, and both put economics at the center of life instead of traditional culture. Hence the Nazis tried to genocide them all to "save" Europe.

Ironically Jews tend to score high on the pseudoscientific IQ tests that white supremacists bandy about, so racists claim that this is because Jews are naturally crafty.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

There is nothing "alt-right" about that, they are straight up little Neo-Nazi shitheads.

Yes but the entire point of Alt-right-supremacists is to rebrand white racist nationalism. It's why stormfront banned racial slurs. Now you can talk about how minorities are ruining the nation and when someone calls you a bigot you have plausible deniability.

 

[Shake Appeal]

So now where do they go? These kids need to be educated out of their ignorance, or they will become voting nazi adults.

This is my concern about expelling people for racism. You're basically consigning them to a lifetime of ignorance and hate. But we also have to consider the other students (and teachers) who are going to have to interact with them in what should be a safe, welcoming environment.

There's no good answer.

 

[Shadybiz]

Disgusting. I don't know what can be done. Expulsion is correct here, I am sure. But that also means that they will have less of a chance of becoming highly educated and POSSIBLY learning the error of their ways.

And the racism and anti-Semitism infuriates me. More so because I have 7 uncles. 1 of them is black, and 1 of them is Jewish. ...Guess which 2 are the most down to earth and fun to hang out with. ...I just don't fucking get people. I wonder if half these kids have ever even met a black or Jewish person.

 

[SoulUnison]

The Facebook group, first reported by the local Daily Camera newspaper, was discovered after one of its leaders allegedly committed suicide, reportedly to “show his allegiance to the [Nazi] party and the killing of Jewish people”, a police report said.

I, uh... Haha. I applaud his dedication.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

http://boulderprep.org/students/admissions/

Boulder Prep has a waiver that allows us to enroll students who have been suspended or expelled, so students can continue their pursuit of education. We also accept students who are experiencing disciplinary difficulties in their current schools. Our unique charter allows us to be more creative than traditional high schools with research-based strategies aimed at reducing and eliminating undesired behavior by keeping students in school.

Looks like if you're at this charter school, there's a good chance you're already on your 2nd+ chance at an education with people working themselves to the bone to make sure you understand the responsibilities of full adulthood. And this is how they spent that chance. Give the seats to a kid who actually gives a fuck.

 

[eggandI]

honestly, kids being influenced by the alt right is the scariest consequence of this election for me.

but 4chan/the_donald/twitter is just a joke bro! nobody actually believes any of that stuff! it's satire!

Yes but the entire point of Alt-right-supremacists is to rebrand white racist nationalism. It's why stormfront banned racial slurs. Now you can talk about how minorities are ruining the nation and when someone calls you a bigot you have plausible deniability.

Yep. The alt-right specially uses memes/"comedy" as their plausible deniability

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So now where do they go? These kids need to be educated out of their ignorance, or they will become voting nazi adults.

They can be educated somewhere away from other kids to harm

 

[Slayven]

Again, not saying what they did is okay, I'm saying that I hope they grow up and realize how stupid this sentiment is and that writing of teenagers that still have a lot of growing to do as "too far gone" is silly. maybe some of them are, but if Derrick Black can change then i don't see why others would be unable to, especially when his environment growing up was a lot more hardcore.

Well they have plenty of time to not be shitty people, if not I hope they are caught before they can harm somebody innocent

 

[Gordon Shumway]

They can be educated somewhere away from other kids to harm

This..

 

[Banglish]

Decided not press charges? Wtf is that about.

 

[Killer Queen]

Well they have plenty of time to not be shitty people, if not I hope they are caught before they can harm somebody innocent

Agreed.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Decided not press charges? Wtf is that about.

They're just kids..

 

[Slayven]

Decided not press charges? Wtf is that about.

They were white and didn't threaten cops.

 

[fart town usa]

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

They've been viewed as a successful minority. Largely associated with the banking class. Makes it easier to shift blame in regards to social/economic woes.

Obviously there's way more to it but that's what I've gathered through the years from reading and studying history.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

American Terrorism 🇺🇸

 

[Audioboxer]

We have a thread in the front page about the son of the founder of the white supremacist forum Storefront and Godson of a KKK leader that was conditioned to be an "heir" abandoning said views entirely after going away to college. Let's not be silly, they're teenagers. You're not the person you were when you we're a teenager, assuming you guys are adults, hell I'm a teenager and I'm not the person I was in 9th or 10th grade (I'm a graduate before anyone asks) and while my situation wouldn't be nearly as extreme, writing off kids as being unable to change when they have their whole lives ahead of them is silly, maybe they will, maybe they won't. It's dependant on the experiences they have in life and what it'll take to make them gain empathy and learn their lesson. Maybe if they were in their 60's you'd have a point, but they're teenagers.

It's not like I said "lock them up!". I said often they are too far gone. Also I did say in my post it would be nice to think about rehabilitation.

At the end of the day I'll call a spade a spade when it's a worldview as disgusting and troubling as these on display here. There is a fucking crater of a difference between "I wasn't the person I was in my teens" and "I was a white supremacist Jew hating racist" in my teens. Hence my sarcastic but realistic remark that most teens have made mistakes when drunk, not mistakes of all out bigoted views and racism.

As someone very likely to end up caring for/working with some of the outcasts of society I totally get rehabilitation and not always giving up on someone. The thing is though, it starts with a person wanting to get help themselves. You can't force terrible human beings to change.

 

[ChouGoku]

http://boulderprep.org/students/admissions/


Looks like if you're at this charter school, there's a good chance you're already on your 2nd+ chance at an education with people working themselves to the bone to make sure you understand the responsibilities of full adulthood. And this is how they spent that chance. Give the seats to a kid who actually gives a fuck.

Oh it was boulder prep, i knew a few people who went there. It was usually for the kids who fucked up in school/life a lot

 

[Measley]

This is terrorism plain and simple. If this were a group of muslims planning to attack Christians and white people, I seriously doubt they'd only be expelled.

 

[Crash Station]

Let's take a second to think about this.

Someone killed themselves to make a point in support of being a racist heel shit.

Good riddance to the scum

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm biased as I have a STRONG aversion to suicide no matter who it is due to past experiences. Maybe that's naivety talking, I don't know.

 

[Killer Queen]

It's not like I said "lock them up!". I said often they are too far gone. Also I did say in my post it would be nice to think about rehabilitation.

At the end of the day I'll call a spade a spade when it's a worldview as disgusting and troubling as these on display here. There is a fucking crater of a difference between "I wasn't the person I was in my teens" and "I was a white supremacist Jew hating racist" in my teens. Hence my sarcastic but realistic remark that most teens have made mistakes when drunk, not mistakes of all out bigoted views and racism.

I don't disagree or really have any issue with what you're saying I just don't think it's fair to write off someone that will likely change in the next 10 years, for better or worse is up to them. That's it. I don't really believe that they'll all change if any but I'd rather see people try to help others become better people than just saying "fuck em". Personalities like theirs are born out of ignorance and allowing them to stay ignorant isn't helping anyone. In this scenario it seems that these kids were already on their second chance and hopefully for some their expulsion and death of their friend will serve as a wake up call. I don't expect every bigot and racist to change their views but there are enough examples, even within our community on GAF that make me feel that it's a lot more helpful than writing them off completely

As someone very likely to end up caring for/working with some of the outcasts of society I totally get rehabilitation and not always giving up on someone. The thing is though, it starts with a person wanting to get help themselves. You can't force terrible human beings to change.

Agreed, which is also why I think it's good they got expelled and I wish they wouldve gotten harsher punishments. Because again, hopefully it'll serve as a wake up call for them to improve their behavior.

 

[Tubobutts]

Why are people shocked that Neo-nazis hate Jews?

 

[Ogodei]

I've never even fully understood why anti-Jewish sentiment even exists.

Because some of them are wealthy?

I just don't even understand what is so bothersome about Jewish people.

Natural to dislike the other, yet more natural to dislike "the other among us," because others existing in other places at least feels natural, as opposed to having them right there, but because of the Diaspora, the Jews only lived as Others among different groups, which led to suspicion at best. They became an easy political scapegoat, and the various lies told about them over history took root and became a legend of hate.

There's a religious component to it, too. Although the Quran respects Jews as people of the book, early Islam targeted them for scorn in order to set Islam apart from the religion that it had borrowed so much from, while Jesus' death was at the hands of Jews who resented what he stood for, so there was a natural path there for Christianity (despite Jesus' pleas with God as he died for their forgiveness).

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Why are people shocked that Neo-nazis hate Jews?

Can't people change? 🤔