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[malek4980]

When student backgrounds are controlled.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 27 — A large-scale government-financed study has concluded that when it comes to math, students in regular public schools do as well as or significantly better than comparable students in private schools.

The study, by Christopher Lubienski and Sarah Theule Lubienski, of the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, compared fourth- and eighth-grade math scores of more than 340,000 students in 13,000 regular public, charter and private schools on the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress. The 2003 test was given to 10 times more students than any previous test, giving researchers a trove of new data.

Though private school students have long scored higher on the national assessment, commonly referred to as "the nation's report card," the new study used advanced statistical techniques to adjust for the effects of income, school and home circumstances. The researchers said they compared math scores, not reading ones, because math was considered a clearer measure of a school's overall effectiveness.

The study found that while the raw scores of fourth graders in Roman Catholic schools, for example, were 14.3 points higher than those in public schools, when adjustments were made for student backgrounds, those in Catholic schools scored 3.4 points lower than those in public schools. A spokeswoman for the National Catholic Education Association did not respond to requests for comment.

The exam is scored on a 0-to-500-point scale, with 235 being the average score at fourth grade, and 278 being the average score at eighth grade. A 10-to-11-point difference in test scores is roughly equivalent to one grade level.

The study also found that charter schools, privately operated and publicly financed, did significantly worse than public schools in the fourth grade, once student populations were taken into account. In the eighth grade, it found, students in charters did slightly better than those in public schools, though the sample size was small and the difference was not statistically significant.

"Over all," it said, "demographic differences between students in public and private schools more than account for the relatively high raw scores of private schools. Indeed, after controlling for these differences, the presumably advantageous private school effect disappears, and even reverses in most cases."

Students perform better in private schools than in public schools, not because of some advantage in private schooling, but because of their backgrounds.

 

[WedgeX]

In grade school this was definitely true.

I went from public school in 5th grade to Catholic school in 6th, and I was far ahead in math of just about everyone else coming in, but rather far behind in reading.

I wonder how high schools would compare.

 

[The Shadow]

When student backgrounds are controlled.

Students perform better in private schools than private school, not becase of some advantage in private schooling, but because of their backgrounds.

What?

Did you go to private school by any chance?

 

[malek4980]

What?

Did you go to private school by any chance?

I went to public Catholic schools (it's a Canadian thing). Now what category would I fall into?

 

[Azih]

Basically what this is saying is that having rich well educated parents is way more important to school success then what kind of school you go to. Freakonomics (great book btw) makes the same point.

 

[Tiger]

On that 20/20 show a few weeks ago, they showed different results for many schools.


For instance, they showed this group of schools that were located in really poor areas of a city where they scored much higher than students in the same neighborhoods. The kids going to that school won that right via a lottery system that picked them randomly. No wealthy background in that case and those kids scored higher at the private school.


Just like everything in this country though, i'm sure it can be proven out with different results by 50 different studies.

 

[malek4980]

On that 20/20 show a few weeks ago, they showed different results for many schools.


For instance, they showed this group of schools that were located in really poor areas of a city where they scored much higher than students in the same neighborhoods. The kids going to that school won that right via a lottery system that picked them randomly. No wealthy background in that case and those kids scored higher at the private school.


Just like everything in this country though, i'm sure it can be proven out with different results by 50 different studies.

Income isn’t the sole factor that’s important, maybe more motivated parents who care about their children’s education were more likely to apply for the lottery so their children could take part. Or the parents who cared more about their children's education were more likely to accept the vouchers? What were the students grades before they went to the new schools?

 

[Tiger]

Income isn’t the sole factor that’s important, maybe more motivated parents who care about their children’s education were more likely to apply for the lottery so their children could take part. Or the parents who cared more about their children's education were more likely to accept the vouchers? What were the students grades before they went to the new schools?

All fair points.

 

[Mugen]

I'm from public school and I can attest to that and better, I'm more good looking.

 

[conker]

the new study used advanced statistical techniques to adjust for the effects of income, school and home circumstances.

THE NEW STUDY ALTERED THE DATA TO GET THIS OUTCOME

 

[malek4980]

THE NEW STUDY ALTERED THE DATA TO GET THIS OUTCOME

In order to find a cause and effect relationship you have to control for other factors which may be causing the effect. Here they want to know if private schools are causing an increase in academic performance, in order to find out they have to control for things like the students background. When this happens the effect is gone, and even reversed.

 

[Zep]

Public Schooling is the best thing for a kid growing up.

 

[White Man]

I went to a catholic school until 10th grade, at which point I transferred due to overdosing on drugs during school hours. I was shocked at how much better and challenging the classes were at the local public high school. I was also shocked by how much nicer the students were.

 

[speedpop]

I think it all depends on self-motivation, parenting and a little bit of wealth.

I am in the same degree as my girlfriend who went through private schools, I went through public schools. However, I'm the only child out of 5 siblings so far that is currently going through tertiary education. One sister is a beauty therapist, the other is a chef/bar/gaming attendant, brother is a mechanic and the other brother is still in high school with no plans as to what to do.

I also agree in a way about DaddyZ saying public schooling is the best thing for a kid growing up. It certainly helps your social skills, friendships and all the rest. When the private school boys hit the same High School as us, it took them at least a year or two to adjust to our usual lifestyle.

 

[Flynn]

Public Schooling is the best thing for a kid growing up.

I agree. Private school would be awesome if you could send your kid to Private life after college.

 

[DDayton]

The problem here is that what the test appears to be saying is that the magical income, "demographic" and "home circumstances" qualities are what make the most difference in children's education... and I'm not entirely sure why people are arguing about all of that. I'm not sure I agree about the income part, but demographic/home circumstances would seem to cover things like having involved parents -- and that's what makes the biggest difference, on average.

Sending a kid to a private school takes an immense amount of sacrifice -- I'd assume that the folks willing to make that kind of sacrifice ALSO tend to be the ones more involved in their children's education in the first place (yes, there are also snobby rich folks -- I readily grant that). If you "adjust" the results so that the children who perform better because their parents are involved are REMOVED/reduced, of course the private school will do worse.

Schools, public or private, only have a small say in how and what children learn. Parents have a much larger say, but a lot tend to shuffle the responsibility off on teachers and such in schools.