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[charlequin]

This kind of promotion works incredibly well on the iOS store, to the point that virtually every developer does it.

It's also not that different from the pre-order discounts that are extremely common on many games, except that it last long enough that people can actually try the game and get others to buy in via word of mouth before the full price kicks back in.

 

[Lonely1]

This kind of promotion works incredibly well on the iOS store, to the point that virtually every developer does it.

But more often than not, the prices are so low that is a "no brainier" to buy the games.

 

[C4Lukins]

This kind of promotion works incredibly well on the iOS store, to the point that virtually every developer does it.

I think you first off have to look at 5 dollar games to 15 dollar games. Super Meat Boy is around 170K (leaderboards) on XBOX and I think that is all 10 dollars and up.

XBLA does not have that sort of clearence sales. Then you have games like Castle Crashers that are nearing the 2 million mark. Or Geo Wars which is around the million mark and is the 39th best selling XBLA game currently while Meat Boy is number 47 daily not all time.

I am not sure what that means in the end, but what works on Steam does not translate to XBLA.

I know you said iOS which is a completely different platform. But Meat Boy would suck on that platform anyway. But again it is a different platform and the way people purchase games on each platform is quite unique.

 

[Stumpokapow]

But those games are usually just a few dollars to begin with. Its much easier on the psyche I think than seeing a game that was just 800 points going up to 1200 especially when it does not normally happen on XBLA.

But more often than not, the prices are so low that is a "no brainier" to buy the games.

I think you first off have to look at 5 dollar games to 15 dollar games. Super Meat Boy is around 170K (leaderboards) on XBOX and I think that is all 10 dollars and up.

I don't think a 9.99 game starting at 7.99 (a lot of iOS games are 9.99!) is materially different than a 15.00 game starting at 10.00.

 

[Rad-]

It still made around 2 million in revenue on XBLA alone, how can that be disappointing for a team of two? I wonder what their expectations were.

Edit: Reading their quotes again, they might be meaning the promotion itself and not SMB sales. I dunno.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Just out of curiosity, what could 3DS do for this game other than portability? I can't imagine the actual 3D effect adding anything to the game, and it goes without saying (even though I'm saying it) that it'll look far inferior to the PC/360 versions.

I played through the entirety of Super Meat Boy and, aside from resolution, I can't think of anything that would make it look "far inferior."

 

[LM4sure]

It's plays great with a dualshock, bruddah.

I actually prefer it with the wii remote.

But 400k sounds pretty good. Not sure how successful a retail version would be. This is the quintessential definition of a downloadable game.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It still made around 2 million in revenue on XBLA alone, how can that be disappointing for a team of two? I wonder what their expectations were.

They weren't disappointed in the sense that they feel Super Meat Boy was a failure, they're disappointed that Microsoft made a lot of promises they didn't keep. They felt it could have done better on XBLA than it did if Microsoft had communicated with them.

 

[C4Lukins]

I don't think a 9.99 game starting at 7.99 (a lot of iOS games are 9.99!) is materially different than a 15.00 game starting at 10.00.

Do you have 100K sellers at that pricepoint? I have no idea I am asking because I just recently got into smart phone gaming.

If so that is great for all of us especially if they can go multiplatform with such games. But Super Meat Boy requires a very precise control scheme. And I am not even sure why I am defending it for a particular platform because is is not that great of the game. I worked out my Ghosts and Goblins demons 20 plus years ago.

 

[Lonely1]

I don't think a 9.99 game starting at 7.99 (a lot of iOS games are 9.99!) is materially different than a 15.00 game starting at 10.00.

But aren't the most successful (the ones that make the top grossing lists) $7-$10 iOS games also the ones with biggest productions values and brand names? None is doubting the ability of XBLA to sell big brand and high production values games at $10 or even higher.

 

[charlequin]

It still made around 2 million in revenue on XBLA alone, how can that be disappointing for a team of two?

It isn't. The XBLA release alone made both members of Team Meat into millionaires; it was like the seventh best-selling new game on XBLA in 2010 and has continued to sell even after the initial release period.

The points that Team Meat did make are:

1. The success of the XBLA release was entirely due to their own promotion of the game and the extremely strong critical reception/word of mouth, not due to Microsoft's promotion (since they feel they were significantly underpromoted)
2. They were able to sell more copies in less time on Steam than they did with their already-successful XBLA release, and make more money from each copy sold.

The issue here isn't at all that the game underperformed or wasn't successful; rather, it's that Team Meat went into their agreement with one understanding of how valuable a publishing partner Microsoft would be, and left with a far less positive one.

But aren't the most successful (the ones that make the top grossing lists) $7-$10 iOS games also the ones with biggest productions values and brand names? None is doubting the ability of XBLA to sell big brand and high production values games at $10 or even higher.

We're getting way off the point here. What's relevant is that a launch-window discount like the one SMB used is actually a very successful type of promotion.

 

[pvpness]

Was gonna snag this on Wii when it hit. Oh well, plenty of other games to play. Not surprised it did better on Steam than XBLA, expected that much.

 

[AranhaHunter]

A PSN port would've only taken 4 days. It would be pretty hard not to make money on a port if it was that easy and fast, but maybe there's a contract or other reason in place for them not to do it.

 

[Shiggy]

I still don't understand why it's not possible on WiiWare when the service got games such as Jett Rocket or FAST Racing League.

 

[From The Dust]

I still don't understand why it's not possible on WiiWare when the service got games such as Jett Rocket or FAST Racing League.

they don't have superior German engineering programming

 

[desu]

Congrats to Team Meat, very well deserved.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

A PSN port would've only taken 4 days. It would be pretty hard not to make money on a port if it was that easy and fast, but maybe there's a contract or other reason in place for them not to do it.

Those special promotions Microsoft does (like Game Feast or Block Party or any of the 90 others they do) usually come with contracts asking for exclusivity to XBLA.

They can't always convince developers to stay exclusive forever (usually when a game has a publisher, like Square-Enix-Eidos, they are more able to dictate terms), but sometimes they do. Team Meat at least got to make a PC version and, had the hardware/Nintendo allowed, a Wii version. Just no PSN version.

 

[charlequin]

but maybe there's a contract or other reason in place for them not to do it.

They've said repeatedly that their contract with Microsoft forbade a PS3 version ever being released.

I still don't understand why it's not possible on WiiWare when the service got games such as Jett Rocket or FAST Racing League.

The short, snarky answer is that it's harder to take a finished game from another platform and squeeze it down to fit within WiiWare's idiotic confines than it is to take an unfinished exclusive and pare down its ambition and scope until it fits.

They can't always convince developers to stay exclusive forever (usually when a game has a publisher, like Square-Enix-Eidos, they are more able to dictate terms), but sometimes they do. Team Meat at least got to make a PC version and, had the hardware/Nintendo allowed, a Wii version. Just no PSN version.

The kind of "bog standard" version of this type of contract (on both PSN and XBLA) is a six-month absolute exclusivity window for all other platforms. Reading between the lines a bit, my guess is that they traded the ability to ever make a PS3 version for a dramatically shorter exclusivity window on PC.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

I still don't understand why it's not possible on WiiWare when the service got games such as Jett Rocket or FAST Racing League.

The same way I can compress a bitmap but can't compress a JPEG. Different styles lead to different things.

In the case of Super Meat Boy a lot of the content was music. I don't know if it was sequencing it as opposed to streaming it (was it streamed?) would kill the quality/Wii processor (if theres too many channels/the sontfont is too large due to many samples). The graphics I'd have to assume they can get away with a resolution cut (this is what And Yet it Moves does to fit).

In any case its a lot of hassle to make it fit and well, with 400,000 sales I don't really blame them for deciding not bothering and moving on. The one thing I don't like is I think at times Team Meat come off a bit too much as having a chip on their sholder/"the world has conspired against me" attitude. Its just the way they say it. Though i do respect them for speaking their mind and sticking to their principles (didn't they tweet sdomething like "we could do Wiiware as episodic but, thats bullshit like sonic 4, fleece the consumers dry").

As for why start on Wii? Their original product of 100 levels probably fitted fine, its just maybe due to the Microsoft deal they got carried away with adding content and then found themselves in trouble. Bigger picture is the game is better off for it.

Spoiler

Super Meat Boy was my first Steam purchase, I've yet to play it.

 

[webrunner]

Still waiting for steam cloud support, meat guys.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Glad such a fantastic game has been successful.
Shame on MS for completely blowing Games Feast Promotion, it didn't seem as big as Summer of Arcade.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

I think XBLA has shown that great games can have long legs on that service. Things like being top rated, top download, friend lists and deal of the week can help take a successful game and keep it in people's minds for when they are looking for something new.

I feel that PC users are more hardcore, Meat Boy will have sold big in the short term because it was hyped and because of Steam sales, but I think that the numbers might balance out over the course of this year, when PC users are chasing the next big thing. I could be wrong, hopefully there are still casual Steam users who haven't gotten around to buying it yet.

I only paid 800 points for Super Meat Boy in launch window, but I would gladly pay 1200 now that I know just how much content there is in that game. It's quite amazing, and anyone reading this who hasn't played it yet should definitely try a demo if you can.

 

[Visualante]

PlayDead, Polytron where do you stand now? More stuff needs to come to PC and timed exclusives on consoles need to stop affecting PC.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Glad such a fantastic game has been successful.
Shame on MS for completely blowing Games Feast Promotion, it didn't seem as big as Summer of Arcade.

seems like all their other xbla promos besides summer of xbla dont do well

 

[Kilrogg]

Literally no one was willing to publish a retail Wii game for them.

Wow, that's weird. I mean, I can see many reasons for it that, put together, would make a pretty good case for releasing the game at retail for the Wii. Low-priced/budget titles are common on the Wii, the system is the platform of choice for 2D platformers, the game's simplistic graphics don't put it at a disadvantage on a system that doesn't emphasize graphics in the first place, the retro references would appeal to the people who got the Wii partly for the Virtual Console, and so on and so forth. Eh.

Makes me all the more curious to know who exactly is publishing the PC version.

 

[Archie]

I think XBLA has shown that great games can have long legs on that service. Things like being top rated, top download, friend lists and deal of the week can help take a successful game and keep it in people's minds for when they are looking for something new.

I feel that PC users are more hardcore, Meat Boy will have sold big in the short term because it was hyped and because of Steam sales, but I think that the numbers might balance out over the course of this year, when PC users are chasing the next big thing. I could be wrong, hopefully there are still casual Steam users who haven't gotten around to buying it yet.

I only paid 800 points for Super Meat Boy in launch window, but I would gladly pay 1200 now that I know just how much content there is in that game. It's quite amazing, and anyone reading this who hasn't played it yet should definitely try a demo if you can.

You have console and PC audiences mixed up. I know SMB doesn't have a multiplayer component, but many Xbox games (and XBLA in particular) become wastelands a few weeks after launch. PC users are more loyal to older games (see CS 1.6 being one of the most played games on Steam). SMB PC will get a nice second wind during the inevitable 50% off weekend deal which will extend its lead over the 360 version.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's interesting, but I think Steam sales really were boosted by the visibility gained by being part of the XBLA Game Feast promo. Just a theory, but I cannot see how they could have gotten quite the hype from a Steam-first release.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

You have console and PC audiences mixed up. I know SMB doesn't have a multiplayer component, but many Xbox games (and XBLA in particular) become wastelands a few weeks after launch. PC users are more loyal to older games (see CS 1.6 being one of the most played games on Steam). SMB PC will get a nice second wind during the inevitable 50% off weekend deal which will extend its lead over the 360 version.

Ah, with online games I totally agree. And the rest of my post was poor guess work based on terrible assumptions.

Strike my post from the record.

 

[charlequin]

I feel that PC users are more hardcore, Meat Boy will have sold big in the short term because it was hyped and because of Steam sales, but I think that the numbers might balance out over the course of this year, when PC users are chasing the next big thing.

This game will be $5 again during the Steam summer sale and probably sell another 50,000 copies or something.

seems like all their other xbla promos besides summer of xbla dont do well

Nah, the Block Party last year around this time actually did pretty well too, and out of the titles in last year's SoA only Limbo was really a hit.

It's interesting, but I think Steam sales really were boosted by the visibility gained by being part of the XBLA Game Feast promo.

Well, at very least, I think they were significantly boosted by the game's success and incredibly strong word-of-mouth from the 360 release (though not, I think, the promo itself.) Having come out on another platform, accumulated excellent reviews, and proven itself as an excellent game that Steam gamers could check out with full confidence almost certainly improved its reception on its second launch.

 

[iavi]

Nah, the Block Party last year around this time actually did pretty well too, and out of the titles in last year's SoA only Limbo was really a hit.

I noticed that Limbo swept SMB in the user-choice awards on the Dashboard... That's a damn travesty.

 

[segarr]

PlayDead, Polytron where do you stand now? More stuff needs to come to PC and timed exclusives on consoles need to stop affecting PC.

Playdead? Wasn't Limbo a smash hit on XBLA?

 

[nli10]

I was thinking it had loads of time but then I noticed the Costume Quest thing and realised I was off sick that week so bought both games and spent loads of time on the Xbox!

 

[bangai-o]

They weren't disappointed in the sense that they feel Super Meat Boy was a failure, they're disappointed that Microsoft made a lot of promises they didn't keep. They felt it could have done better on XBLA than it did if Microsoft had communicated with them.

wait what? they announced that they were disappointed in the sales? wow

 

[fernoca]

Though, I wonder what Microsoft "promised them" when it came to promoting the game? I mean..the game was promoted no different than other Game Fest games or even Summer of Arcade games like Limbo. In fact, being part of the Game Fest had the game getting more exposure than regular weekly releases. Limbo may have been part of the Summer of Arcade, but is not like Microsoft shoehorned the game every place. Aside a few dashboard ads and pictures, there was nothing else. And impressions while positive said that the price for the game was "too high". Unlike Super Meat which was released at $5 less and had strong word of mouth.


Summary:

Spoiler

 

[iavi]

That Gamespot article is one insightful read. Launching "Costume Quest" right besides SMB when they were promised a week-long exclusivity window was some dirt on Microsoft's part.

 

[charlequin]

I noticed that Limbo swept SMB in the user-choice awards on the Dashboard... That's a damn travesty.

Almost four times as many Xbox users bought it, so it's not particularly surprising.

I actually really liked Limbo, but SMB was definitely a far better game IMO.

wait what? they announced that they were disappointed in the sales?

That is so very specifically not what they said.

Though, I wonder what Microsoft "promised them" when it came to promoting the game?

The Game Feast was given significantly less overall promotion than Summer of Arcade, to be sure: SoA had a huge amount of prominent dashboard advertising (including animated, interactive ads with the characters from the different games moving about) while Game Feast was given only static advertisements more buried in the Dashboard and was promoted less outside of the Dashboard itself. The Game Feast games as a whole significantly lagged SoA games in terms of sales, too, which suggests there was something to this complaint.

Also, as they noted in their GDC talk, they were promised a week as the only release, but instead Costume Quest came out the same day.

Playdead? Wasn't Limbo a smash hit on XBLA?

Yep. Limbo was, IIRC, the highest-selling new XBLA release of 2010 and pretty much the only bona-fide "hit" for the year. Although I'm sure they could've found success on Steam as well, XBLA did very well for them.

 

[storafötter]

Great to hear the Steam version did well. I don't think id double dip if it came on 3ds unless it was a new game.

 

[bangai-o]

fairly positive that turning on my 360 last year was like turning on my Super Meat Boy billboard machine.

 

[fernoca]

The Game Feast was given significantly less overall promotion than Summer of Arcade, to be sure: SoA had a huge amount of prominent dashboard advertising (including animated, interactive ads with the characters from the different games moving about) while Game Feast was given only static advertisements more buried in the Dashboard and was promoted less outside of the Dashboard itself. The Game Feast games as a whole significantly lagged SoA games in terms of sales, too, which suggests there was something to this complaint.

Also, as they noted in their GDC talk, they were promised a week as the only release, but instead Costume Quest came out the same day.

Interesting. I completely omitted the Eurogamer link. Nice read.

Though is probably like someone said in the comments. If they actually have all that in writing and signed under it, they easily have a case against them and reason to be pissed off. Otherwise, it seems it was just promises they were made in order for Microsoft have an "exclusive", and block them for releasing the game on the "evilstation".

 

[mclem]

The short, snarky answer is that it's harder to take a finished game from another platform and squeeze it down to fit within WiiWare's idiotic confines than it is to take an unfinished exclusive and pare down its ambition and scope until it fits.

Wasn't it a Wiiware exclusive *before* it was anything else (other than a Flash game)?

 

[Amir0x]

Not sure I need a 3DS version since 3D will be shut off, but I'd probably buy it anyway if they included the level editor in that version as well.

 

[djtiesto]

They should be lucky for every sale they get at 1200 points. The game should be 400-800 points tops.

I paid 800 points during last year's sale and after playing a lot of it, would have gladly paid 1200. Ridiculous amount of content thrown in there.

I expected the game to sell more on XBLA though.

 

[charlequin]

Wasn't it a Wiiware exclusive *before* it was anything else (other than a Flash game)?

I don't think it was ever a WiiWare exclusive. The impression I got from the various information we've gotten is that they were developing it for Wii, 360, and PC from basically the beginning.