The "area" remains the same, but proportionate to the rest of the space that the stick can move in, it is a larger percentage of the free space than in a square gate. Octo gate has less overall space because it cuts off parts of the corners, meaning that the central area takes up more of the available space.
Super "NeoGAF Arcade Stick Thread" II TURBO
- Thread starter MarkMan
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The "area" remains the same, but proportionate to the rest of the space that the stick can move in, it is a larger percentage of the free space than in a square gate. Octo gate has less overall space because it cuts off parts of the corners, meaning that the central area takes up more of the available space.
If it was as easy as swapping out buttons, I would.
StarCreator
Member
Points taken. I guess my point of view is different coming from playing exclusively in arcades and small groups of friends long before personal stick ownership became popular; there was no "bring your own stick" and tweaking one stick to the preference of a single player was just unheard of in those days.
I still think there's value in not creating a dependency on a nonstandard setup, for times you're without your own stick or have to play at arcades. I'm not sure why that's somehow a mockable opinion.
Ah, I see. Wouldn't it make sense to scale down the octo gate image so it's the same physical size as the square gate image then? I think that would portray the difference more accurately.
Not even sure what to think of MLG controller there.
Well, this is them overlaid and is representative of the actual physical sizes. I changed the hue of the octo gate just for contrast.
The center square is actually the same size, like you were saying.
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The MLG controller just has modular analog sticks and d-pads so that you can switch between xbox and playstation style controls whenever you want. You can also put them in different locations, to even switch between whatever layout you want!
I posted it mostly as a joke, though
TheFightingFish
Member
Part of what you might not see is how the tweaking / DIY vibe is pretty strong with people who are building and customizing arcade sticks. I'm in this camp, and for me goofing with a stick is a fun thing to do in and of itself, personally I'm not really looking for better performance as much as I'm just finding cool ways to tinker with a stick. Gamewise I could just pick up a MadCatz TE and be fine with it, but what's the fun in that?
I get what you mean about standardization (I'd never swap to hitbox because I think it would annoy me at local gatherings) but folks are always going to enjoy customizing their sticks. Especially since sticks are more expensive and permanent than most controls. Not too many want to customize a $50 pad that they will use with one console. But for a $200 custom stick that they might use for several generations it makes more sense to make it your own in both looks and performance. As an side note about tinkering I actually got into fighting games as a genre due to first building a custom stick, not the other way around. I do small bits of electronics work and woodworking and when I saw MarkMan's old arcade stick thread it looked like a cool project to try. After building that first stick I got the bug for both working with arcade sticks and for the genres that they work with (Fighters, SHUMPs, stuff like that). The fun thing about working with sticks is that there is a broad range of stuff that you can do at all skill levels. Button swaps, stick swaps, changing artwork, adding multiconsole support, padhacking, building full sticks, lots of options there.
Octo looks easier to use, but I have terrible execution an I play Marvel so it may not be the best decision for myself to cut the corners off a little. Though, like you said, it makes it easier to ride the curved corners for quarter circles and dps I think the trade off for those are too big for me.
Thanks for that super informative post Oneida.
Thanks for that super informative post Oneida.
MezzoForte
Member
agreed. I mean respect to pad warriors or hitbox players or whatever but tough shit if that leaves you hanging somewhere down the line.
atomic moth
Member
Pads are pretty standard and are gaining in popularity. No one says "You need a stick to be good" anymore. Eventually, the further we get from arcades and arcade culture, the further pads will become commonplace.
So respect to all the stick players, such as myself, but tough shit if that leaves you hanging somewhere down the line.
You can look into putting a thicker actuator or a larger actuator replacement in order to lessen the dead zone. I've actually used Sharpie tops and bonded them to the bottom of the joystick shaft, which will give you a smaller distance to travel to the switch. Someone on SRK sells replacements.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Octogates are worth checking out, but square is better. It's better in the games that octo is supposed to be an improvement for, and it's way better for everything else.
notworksafe
Member
If you live in America and want to play on an arcade cab, better start learning how to use a Happ.
Shit, I remember when Tekken 4 cabs (I think it was T4, might have been T5) had PS2 plugs on the side for controllers and memory cards. That was so cool to me back in the day.
atomic moth
Member
If you live in America and want to play on an arcade cab, better start learning how to use a Happ.
Shit, I remember when Tekken 4 cabs (I think it was T4, might have been T5) had PS2 plugs on the side for controllers and memory cards. That was so cool to me back in the day.
You could also move those T5 cabs from a standing to sitting position as well. Those were fantastic. And yes, Happ/iL sticks use rounded motions, and are commonplace in remaining american arcades.
Everyone should just try things out and use what they like. There seems to be some serious joystick-shaming going on in this thread.
Jest Chillin
Member
You're certain of this? I started in the now closed Family Fun Arcade in SoCal and I believe most of those machines used Happ (at the very least they didn't feel like Square gates as I couldn't hear or feel the microswitches... always thought they used Happ 360). They didn't have any Square Gate machines until they brought in the shorter sit-down Japanese style cabinets. Even then, the majority of the current fighters were on the American cabinets. This was like 10 years ago though.
atomic moth
Member
Japanese cabinets use thin metal control panels, which accept japanese parts more readily. Those cabinets are also expensive, and you won't see enough in an American arcade to think that's the accepted standard.
American arcades still use Happ, or iL if they prefer, which are rounded. Those mount into the wood panels that American cabinets have. There are still plenty of these cabs floating around. I've even heard the manager of Super Arcade refuses to adapt Japanese parts into his ST cabinet, much to the chagrin of some players.
So unless people are talking about borrowing a stick from someone at an arcade, no, Sanwa is not the standard.
Also, I guess I missed the memo of Focus Attack selling K-sticks now?
http://www.focusattack.com/crown/
I really like mine.
Axis
Member
How so?
MezzoForte
Member
truthfact: candies in America are very, very few and far between. Most cabinets that still exist here today are either a Neo Geo big red or some kind of Dynamo, obviously all Happ standard. If anything more candies here are owned by enthusiasts than arcade operators.
notworksafe
Member
I want a candy cab so bad, with CvS2 pls. 
Same for mine! It's made getting Electrics about 50x easier for me. Glad there's somewhere to buy one that will ship faster than eTokki. Getting mine took forever.
TheFightingFish
Member
That's a whole heck of a lot of Kraylix loving. What's the plan for those bad boys? Going in cabinets?
MezzoForte
Member
you're right, we are definitely moving further away from arcade culture rather than closer back to what it once was and consoles which easily accommodate pad players, etc. are the realized future. Honestly what I said was kind of a knee-jerk reaction to the this fantastic thought that arcade hardware could be seen as non-standard. I'm sentimental and protective of the arcade image, so that's just how I feel.
Have anyone tried using Crown buttons on a lower end Hori stick (EX2, DOA4, etc)? I heard those buttons are smaller than normal Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons and that they might fit in the sticks without having to file/dremel the button holes. Considering converting an old DOA3 stick I have to a Neo Geo stick with a DB15 out.
hibachifinal
Member
Have anyone tried using Crown buttons on a lower end Hori stick (EX2, DOA4, etc)? I heard those buttons are smaller than normal Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons and that they might fit in the sticks without having to file/dremel the button holes. Considering converting an old DOA3 stick I have to a Neo Geo stick with a DB15 out.
i dont have exact measurements, but HORI's holes are usually 30mm after shaving the tabs off. it's tight when putting in sanwa's, so its mroe likely 29.something.
but, i just measured a Hori button to where the tabs go, its roughly at 26.xx mm it might be a tight fit and you probably gonna have to get rid of the tabs anyways.
crowns are 28mm. i dont think the snap-in types would work well, but you can i guess try the screw-in types. only hassle is it uses soldered connections, not qcd's. i know crowns have grooves for similar tab type things too, but it might not match the hori ones.
hope that helps
notworksafe
Member
With all this talk of arcades, I figured I'd grab some shots of my (working) cabs. Hope you guys don't mind the picture spam. :x
Tekken Tag 1, one of the only cabs I have that works 100% perfectly:
Plus it still (mostly) has the cool sideart too!
My favorite cab, the MVS-4. Just got it working again, though it still has a little monitor jitter that I'm trying to figure out.
Close up on the marquee art. Yes I know I have two FF2 arts, but it came with two when I bought it so why not?
Playing the best game ever, World Heroes Perfect!
And the Kraylix w/ PS2 hooked up. Some don't count it as a real cabinet but I dig it anyway.
I eventually want to make it an DBZ themed cab, hence the Dragonball balltop
I've got a couple others but they are in various states of disrepair. When I eventually get them working I'll post shots here.
Tekken Tag 1, one of the only cabs I have that works 100% perfectly:
Plus it still (mostly) has the cool sideart too!
My favorite cab, the MVS-4. Just got it working again, though it still has a little monitor jitter that I'm trying to figure out.
Close up on the marquee art. Yes I know I have two FF2 arts, but it came with two when I bought it so why not?
Playing the best game ever, World Heroes Perfect!
And the Kraylix w/ PS2 hooked up. Some don't count it as a real cabinet but I dig it anyway.
I eventually want to make it an DBZ themed cab, hence the Dragonball balltop
I've got a couple others but they are in various states of disrepair. When I eventually get them working I'll post shots here.
Thanks for the info! I was hoping it'll be easier. That still sounds like a hassle. Guess I'll probably use some of my other unused sticks when the time comes.
Awesome! I wish I had the room for some. One day...
Did you paint the Kraylix yourself or did it come like that? I was looking at the site for the hell of it and it doesn't look like they come painted anymore?
notworksafe
Member
It came painted. I think I was in the last batch to get painted cabinets, luckily. I could never do as good of a job as he did,
I had to get the art printed at kinko's but that wasn't a hassle and it turned out pretty good.
I had to get the art printed at kinko's but that wasn't a hassle and it turned out pretty good.
hibachifinal
Member
i just remembered that, ARC sys already showed that new stick, at least a prototype of if, during ARCFES
and they even showcase some EXAPRIZE... custom stuff? in anycase it's interesting that EXAR is their choice of 'official' stick manufacturers.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201305/20033525.html
gives us a better look at it, sort of... still looks flat and weird to me haha
and they even showcase some EXAPRIZE... custom stuff? in anycase it's interesting that EXAR is their choice of 'official' stick manufacturers.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201305/20033525.html
gives us a better look at it, sort of... still looks flat and weird to me haha
MezzoForte
Member
MAD RESPECT. Also cheers to WHP love. I'm on the hunt for a 4-slot myself. It's kinda funny, this 4-slot at a laundromat near my area was down for a long time because of a broken monitor. I was planning on asking the owner if I could buy it off him. I walk in today and I see that the original monitor has been replaced with an Asus LCD??? Funny stuff. It had Metal Slug, Fatal Fury 2, and a wacky KoF bootleg. There are a lot of 4-slots in the NorCal bay area that I see not being used. I wish I could just buy them all lol.
AgainstTheGrain
Member
I've got a SSF4 stick. I gave 2(SF Collection and DOA4 stick) of mine away today to my brother for doing me a favor. I don't like to keep a lot of clutter with my gaming stuff and I am really ready for a new stick. Since I gave away my other 2, I'm gonna keep the MAS. The thing is just really rugged. I feel like I'm still playing Street Fighter 2 with that thing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
For 3D fighters, you tend to ride the gate more and hitting corners is important. Not good for VF or Tekken. 2D games with DP motions are more reliable when you can hit the corner better. Supers like Guile's are easier with square.
notworksafe
Member
Tell me about it. I see machine all the time I want to pick up and have bugged plenty of cabinet owners over voicemail until they sell me their cab or start ignoring me.
Craigslist is where I found most of my machines. Just gotta be on the hunt every day for great deals to pick up.
I almost bought one of those bad boys recently off of eBay. I really like the look of it as well, but I decided to go with a Qanba Q4RAF because of the dualmod.
I also didn't want to feel like poseur playing with an LE EVO stick even though I'd never been to EVO. :/
sixteen-bit
Member
I know how you feel. I feel like such a poseur with my Street Fighter stick because I've never been in a street fight.
hibachifinal
Member
I dont use the femme fatale stick because they are not mai waifus
MezzoForte
Member
I've never bought a DC Agetec because, well I'm not William Dafoe in Spiderman.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Markman posted this on twitter of the Korean stick.
ID tagged stick, that only works in Korean hands.
sixteen-bit
Member
Cafe ID reference?
notworksafe
Member
Markman posted this on twitter of the Korean stick.
Why an SE? :/
sixteen-bit
Member
Wouldn't they have to entirely re-engineer the case for a TE to fit Korean parts?
Probably a "path of least resistance" thing
hibachifinal
Member
im guessing this comes with sanwa? :3 if so, price point will def be over $50...
J-Roderton
Member
Sweet. An entire thread about sticks. These work well with XBLA arcade games besides fighters?
notworksafe
Member
You can fit a Crown in a TE no problem.
http://www.madcatz.com/korean-style-joystick-offers-new-fightstick-possibilities/
Markman posted this on twitter of the Korean stick.
Will get!