TheDinoman
Member
For as long as Ganondorf and Sheik aren't featured in new Zelda games, we're stuck with the Twilight Princess designs. Some people just need to accept this.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Super Smash Bros. Community Thread |OT| Next Super Smash Bros. Discussion
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
But Sheik isn't even in Twilight Princess so that logic doesn't fly since they could ask artist to come up with new designs for the characters. I'm not expecting any new designs but it's just a contradiction in your argument since they asked a new design for Sheik for Brawl.
This isn't true; the Twilight Princess style concept art for Sheik was made during the development of Twilight Princess, prior to Brawlit wasn't made specifically for Brawl. Sheik was presumably considered for Twilight Princess at one time during development, so concept art for her conveniently existed already. It's a bit different than asking the Zelda designers to create a new design for a character specifically for Smash Bros., but that is a possibility as well I suppose. That didn't happen in Sheik's case, though.
EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong, sorry! Totally misremembered the situation I guess.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I recommend you to check out Hyrule Historia if you have one. I would post the scan here but it's bannable offense so I wouldn't.
Edited: I could share the description they had for Sheik's TP Design.
Hyrule Historia on Brawl Sheik
Smash Dojo on Brawl Sheik's Design
Information from Wikipedia on Brawl's development date and on Twilight Princess's development.
Basically Sakurai probably make the request for them to redesign Sheik with Twilight Princess fashion (or art style) during the development since both of them were working on their games during same time.
Professor Beef
Banned
Still better than SS Zelda and that huge honker of a nose she has.
TheDinoman
Member
why does Zelda have the slowest jab in the game?
ZSS jab: frame 1
Zelda jab: frame 11
The thing about Zelda is that, when she was conceived back during the development of Melee, Sakurai designed her around her transformation gimmick, and ergo "balanced" her against Sheik.
The idea, on paper anyway, was that when you're Sheik, you're zooming around using her super fast moves to quickly rack up damage. Then when you want to KO people, you switch back to Zelda, who has much slower but more powerful moves that cause more knockback.
Problem is, Sheik is a good character, so ergo, making Zelda the complete opposite of her resulted in her being a bad character. And the final nail in the coffin was when transformations were axed in Smash 4, seperating Zelda and Sheik, but doing absolutely nothing to improve Zelda outside of the useless Phantom move thing.
So really that's kinda Zelda's big issue there: She's still haphazardly built around a transformation feature that literally doesn't exist anymore.
Oh damn, you're right! I own the Hyrule Historia as well and I swear it said otherwise. Guess I'm just remembering incorrectly. I was even gonna look up a source to post for my claim but I was on mobile so I didn't bother, lol. Anyway, sorry for the misinformation!!
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm really thinking it's more likely we'd get a new Link of the Wild alongside standard Link before they tinker with the original tunic and moveset.
She loves the smell of coffee in the morning...all the way from
(SS Zelda the best, fight me)
Green Mamba
Member
Sure, if they want to keep being boring and stuck in the past.
My solution.
-Link's default look is his Tunic of the Wild set, with the Champion's Shirt as his alt. In fitting with "eight colors/costumes per character," it could be a green Tunic of the Wild as default, red, blue, and purple color variations thereof, the standard Champion's Shirt look, Champion's Shirt with the Hylian Hood, armorless a la Shulk, and Dark Link. His Boomerang can go back to normal (Gale Boomerang sucked anyway) and just give him a Hookshot, who cares.
-Zelda's default look is her royal gown look she has in the memories set at the castle. Her Champion's Shirt esque design is her alt.
-Sheik's design is based on the stealth armor set from Breath of the Wild. I mean, with Sheik's headgear, Link already basically looks the part of a BotW Sheik.
-For Ganondorf have BotW's artists create a BotW style Ganondorf, if one doesn't even already exist during development. According to Hyrule Historia this is basically where Brawl/SSB4 Sheik comes from--created by the Zelda artists specifically for Smash. His Final Smash would obviously be based on Dark Beast Ganon from BotW.
I think that all seems fairly simple. If SSB5 comes and the Zelda characters are still stuck in 2006 I don't think they'll have much excuse. Breath of the Wild is the new paradigm of Zelda going forward, it's not just another new release in the series, and I think the characters should represent that.
Professor Beef
Banned
She was willing to stand face to face against Ganon...but she already was able to from Hyrule Castle! WOOOO
Zelda's weird competitively. She's like an up close brawler that can rack up quick damage and KO you pretty quickly, but her mobility is terrible, and her kill moves are hard to land against anybody who is competent and can DI even a little bit. She's like a magical DK/Bowser without the good grab kill confirms. :/
Her moveset basically relies on neutralB, upB OOS/ledge canceling, dtilt/grab -> whatever, and the occasional dair. Those moves would be great on any other character.
Also why the fuck does her sideB still put her in free fall? It's not even a good move.
And Ganondorf basically becoming a meme in Smash because of how terrible he is, is an injustice to the character. There really isn't an excuse for the next Smash to have him as a bad Falcon clone again.
Her moveset basically relies on neutralB, upB OOS/ledge canceling, dtilt/grab -> whatever, and the occasional dair. Those moves would be great on any other character.
Also why the fuck does her sideB still put her in free fall? It's not even a good move.
And Ganondorf basically becoming a meme in Smash because of how terrible he is, is an injustice to the character. There really isn't an excuse for the next Smash to have him as a bad Falcon clone again.
TheDinoman
Member
It's just that Sakurai is stubborn and stuck in his own ways. He simply refuses to gut out any characters' moveset and fully replace it, like what Capcom did with Roll from MVC2 to TVC. He doesn't want to make people feel bad that their favorite character is different from what they were before.
And that I say, to hell with them. To me, completely replacing Ganondorf's moveset is no different from cutting out characters like Wolf, Snake and what not. When those characters got the axe, their fans simply had to move on and accept it (except Jawmuncher oops).
I don't understand why people can't do the same with Ganondorf. Now we're forever stuck with Captain Ganondorf.
I think it's a dumb excuse, especially since Melee Ganondorf feels way different. Just toss the clone moveset to a different character (I commonly hear Black Shadow from F-Zero would be a good choice), or have TP Ganondorf have the old moveset and a BotW-styled Ganondorf with a new moveset.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Pit is likely about as far as he'll go for moveset redos, and even Pit's redone moves are similar "in spirit" to his Brawl moves. His down special, for example, is still a shield. His side special still reflects projectiles (albeit very differently). Just his up special is really different.
Just add big blue boar Ganon from the old games. There's no classic era Zelda rep, besides a couple colors.
Just add big blue boar Ganon from the old games. There's no classic era Zelda rep, besides a couple colors.
Professor Beef
Banned
I told y'all, no Smash 4 for Switch
NEVER DOUBT ME AGAIN
NEVER DOUBT ME AGAIN
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Actually did you said there wouldn't be "next sequel" with 8-10 new characters? I'm confused.
Professor Beef
Banned
Never doubt da beefActually did you said there wouldn't be "next sequel" with 8-10 new characters? I'm confused.
ever
but you wrong 99% of the time tho
Professor Beef
Banned
I've never been wrong in the entire time I've been on GAF
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
what about that marvel vs capcom bet? :kappa:
Professor Beef
Banned
What's-his-name never made an avatar, and never followed through on it!
Literally who?
TheDinoman
Member
So who's ready for the influx of "man they should put the Doom Slayer in the next Smash Bros."?
RomanceDawn
Member
I like how in the direct the narrator talks about how Smash Bros fans should take notice and be excited by Samus Returns. Then they go on to hype some big secret enemy that will surely be some form of Ridley.
The seeds have been planted for a new age of Smash speculation.
The seeds have been planted for a new age of Smash speculation.
Triforce141
Member
Ridley in Samus Returns.... Sakamoto wouldn't dare....
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
...I'd be totally okay with Doomguy/Doom Marine/Flynn Taggert/Doom Slayer/whatever the crap his name is!
Yeah, that was really odd...
Why even be coy when the TRANSMISSION LOST clearly had Ridley roaring over it? He's got a pretty recognizable voice, after all. It'd be pretty hilarious if Smash for Switch added Ridley after so many people insisted he can never happen!
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
Nah, I severely doubt it'll happen. Just a funny thought.
My hopes ride on Splatoon and ARMS reps!
AND K. ROOL PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Professor Beef
Banned
Pretty sure there's no actual k tool fans left
...I think I'll keep that typo lol
...I think I'll keep that typo lol
I mean, shit. I'd be down. And to everyone who complained Bayonetta wasn't "Video Games Hall of Fame" enough, come & say that to me now. ... But at this point, the Bethesda rep would probably Dovakhiin.
If they weren't so cruel about Ridley teases before, I'd say this might mean something. It's definitely weird they addressed "Smash fans" for what was clearly a Ridley teaser, & my hope can't be extinguished... but my expectations are crushed.
Wrong again, Doc!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
we really need a full fledged ranged Smasher
Nocturnowl
Member
He goes on the backburner simply because I still don't have Dixie Kong, she's seemingly just not Waifu enough for Smash.
Green Mamba
Member
I've been for the Doomguy since before yesterday.
And a great stage would be one where you fight on top of the status bar from Classic Doom while the classic game plays out behind you.
You know that'd be awesome.
Only if we cut like half of the FE cast first. But wouldn't they want to wait to see whatever totally not generic protagonist there is for the next FE to disappoint people with?
Yay! Motion sickness in Smash!
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
An ARMS character could fill that role, yeah?
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree regarding who would be the better DK character.
Green Mamba
Member
*sigh* There's always a catch.
EDIT: Alternatively, have the action parked in front of the Icon of Sin like in the screenshot I posted, and have it shoot demon spawners at the stage every once in a while.
RomanceDawn
Member
I want Dixie so much more but I feel both deserve to be in.
Dixie was once the star gosh darn it! She was once the star...
I want Dixie so much more but I feel both deserve to be in.
Dixie was once the star gosh darn it! She was once the star...
I figured Dixie Kong would have had a great chance of being in Smash 4 after returning in Tropical Freeze. Shame she wasn't added. I can live without K. Rool, as cool as I think he would be.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
I want Dixie so much more but I feel both deserve to be in.
Dixie was once the star gosh darn it! She was once the star...
Nothing against Dixie, my friend! I just personally prefer K. Rool!
Professor Beef
Banned
You're right; he had no fans to begin with! WOOOOOO!
MrSaturn99
Member
I was thinking about this, but I don't know if they'd pick an older character like her over whoever would star in the newest FE.
Regardless, I'd be all for it.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Me too. Lord knows that if this roster is missing anyone it's certainly more Fire Emblem characters!
MrSaturn99
Member
I just think she'd be a fun character. Keep Marth, Ike and Robin and either add her or whoever's the latest protagonist a half-decade or so from now. Either way, you'd have four solid characters than a bloated total of six.
Nocturnowl
Member
From a moveset potential angle I'd actually consider Rool a better option, more heavyweights in a roster that could still use more when you consider how big it's gotten, that blunderbuss has too much potential to leave untapped.
DKC3 basically doesn't exist in smashland, heck it's rare enough for Nintendo in general to acknowledge it.I want Dixie so much more but I feel both deserve to be in.
Dixie was once the star gosh darn it! She was once the star...
Kiddy Kong wasn't that bad.
Well she's currently experiencing a huge resurgence in popularity, so I very much think her inclusion is in the cards.
Possibly over the new FE lord, if said character doesn't really have a noteworthy moveset.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
PRECISELY! Rolling his DKC 1,2, and 64 appearances together would be perfect for Smash; Blunderbuss, Crown Toss, and all the weird tricks he has as a Boxer!