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[JoeInky]

It's possible, there seems to be some more metagame based ones, such as an "easy perfect shield."

I don't like the idea of adding on extra time to tournaments because custom moves & custom equipment is a bit too much, but if before a tournament we could just set every character to have more speed, less landing lag and less knockback the game would be perfect.

It depends if the same equipment can be used for all characters or if the equipment is character specific.

 

[Diprosalic]

Anyone worried Mega Man will be F tier? I've never seen him win a fight in any of the demos.

worried? I'm hoping he will be bad, just like Sonic in Brawl.

 

[Clefargle]

I was gone for a week, what did I miss outside of the daily shots?

Welcome back. There is a 3DS FC google doc, it's all the rage. Oh and the tourney was all bowser.

 

[superNESjoe]

worried? I'm hoping he will be bad, just like Sonic in Brawl.

That is one of the dumbest and most selfish things I've heard in this thread.

 

[Hatchtag]

But he can. And I disagree about other characters in Metroid being awful. The hunters in Prime 3 are kinda cool (but I would take Ridley and Dark Samus as reps before any of them).

I want so badly for some Metroid rep no one expects to be made into a character instead of Ridley. Maybe the baby metroid from Metroid 2. The tears would be delicious.

I don't like the idea of adding on extra time to tournaments because custom moves & custom equipment is a bit too much, but if before a tournament we could just set every character to have more speed, less landing lag and less knockback the game would be perfect.

Custom moves I'm absolutely sure will be at least tested for tournaments.
Custom equipment...depends very, very heavily on just how it'll work. I donno. It could be really interesting, it could not be interesting at all.

Anyone worried Mega Man will be F tier? I've never seen him win a fight in any of the demos.

I won a few with him. Dude's a bit technical, as he relies even more on projectiles than Snake, so that's likely why people can't win with him right away. His air game pleasantly reminded me of Ganondorf (satisfying as fuck forward and downward aerials).

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

worried? I'm hoping he will be bad, just like Sonic in Brawl.

This type of thinking is really silly.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I want so badly for some Metroid rep no one expects to be made into a character instead of Ridley. Maybe the baby metroid from Metroid 2. The tears would be delicious.

Good thing I am not close minded enough to hate any Metroid rep not named Ridley. As long as said rep isn't Adam Malkovich or a Prime Hunters character, of course.

 

[JoeInky]

Good thing I am not close minded enough to hate any Metroid rep not named Ridley. As long as said rep isn't Adam Malkovich or a Prime Hunters character, of course.

Does besthunter Sylux count as a prime hunters character seeing as he's obviously in prime 3.

 

[BassForever]

Ridley is the only Metroid left currently that makes any kind of sense, maybe if they had treated the prime 3/prime hunters characters differently there could be a bit more discussion. The ice dude from Prime 3 in particular stands out in my mind as a character they could have kept and pushed if they wanted to

 

[StayDead]

Anyone worried Mega Man will be F tier? I've never seen him win a fight in any of the demos.

I played him yesterday in Hyper Japan and if anything I think it's because his moveset is very, very, very technical and he'll take a while to learn.

You can't just play Megaman, you have to ease into it.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Does besthunter Sylux count as a prime hunters character seeing as he's obviously in prime 3.

I don't know, but he sucks. I would take Rundas or Gandrayda over him. Heck, even "Remember Me?" dude would be better.

 

[Diprosalic]

This type of thinking is really silly.

why tho? there are usually a handful of characters that are tourney viable and we'll see over and over again and i don't enjoy MM as a character that's why i'm hoping he won't be one of them.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Good thing I am not close minded enough to hate any Metroid rep not named Ridley. As long as said rep isn't Adam Malkovich or a Prime Hunters character, of course.

It's not about being close minded, it's a series with very few interesting characters outside of Samus herself, and her antagonists, many of which are not built for play.

 

[JoeInky]

I don't know, but he sucks. I would take Rundas or Gandrayda over him. Heck, even "Remember Me?" dude would be better.

Nah, it goes Rhundas = Sylux > Weavel > Ghor >>>>>>> All the other hunters > Gandrayda.

Anthony should never be mentioned again, especially because the GF Trooper armour in Other M is terrible compared to the prime version.


The only good Metroid reps to have would be Ridley, then Dark Samus, then one of the other bounty hunters, then a space pirate or GF trooper would be way at the bottom and then that's it.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Nah, it goes Rhundas = Sylux > Weavel > Ghor >>>>>>> All the other hunters > Gandrayda.

Let's face it they're all essentially glorified palette swaps for Samus.

 

[Hatchtag]

Ridley is the only Metroid left currently that makes any kind of sense, maybe if they had treated the prime 3/prime hunters characters differently there could be a bit more discussion. The ice dude from Prime 3 in particular stands out in my mind as a character they could have kept and pushed if they wanted to

Metroid really fucked itself out of having another newcomer by having 5 games be very popular in the west, not as popular in Japan, regarded as a spin-off and then have a main series entry that's regarded as a trainwreck yet still is the most recent game in the series.

I played him yesterday in Hyper Japan and if anything I think it's because his moveset is very, very, very technical and he'll take a while to learn.

You can't just play Megaman, you have to ease into it.

Yeah. His down, forward, and neutral specials all have quiet a bit of potential, but it'd take a bit of playtime to find that potential.

EDIT: Almost thought I meant to type 4 instead of 5...but then remembered Metroid Prime Pinball is a thing!

 

[JediLink]

Anyone worried Mega Man will be F tier? I've never seen him win a fight in any of the demos.

I am worried about this. I don't think he'll be the worst of the worst, but I have a bad feeling that he'll end up being an underdog. Which would suck if true, honestly. I've played MvC2 already; I want a top tier Mega Man for once!

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It looks like Pacman will be very pick up and play with a fairly basic moveset whilst Mega-Man will take some getting used to. I absolutely love both character designs though. Really wish Sega had let Sakurai use Generations Classic Sonic.

 

[JoeInky]

Let's face it they're all essentially glorified palette swaps for Samus.

Eh, I disagree, they all have unique quirks and interesting signature abilities and the little backstory around most of them I find quite an interesting addition to the metroid universe..

 

[Dr. Buni]

It's not about being close minded, it's a series with very few interesting characters outside of Samus herself, and her antagonists, many of which are not built for play.

I know. I am just saying I wouldn't flip my shit if Sakurai decided that a hunter for MP3 is more suited for Smash than Ridley.

(To clarify, Ridley is my #1 most wanted newcomer since the announcement of the game).

 

[Hatchtag]

It looks like Pacman will be very pick up and play with a fairly basic moveset whilst Mega-Man will take some getting used to. I absolutely love both character designs though. Really wish Sega had let Sakurai use Generations Classic Sonic.

Classic Sonic would look strange doing most of Sonic's more fighting-esque moves. Plus, I mean, SSB Sonic is somewhat based around the homing attack.

Pac-Man looks like Mr. Namco & Watch, though, and I love it.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I know some people will always love the classic light blue Sonic with the short quills, but personally I think Smash 4 Sonic is the best contemporary design he's ever had. It has really illustrated to me how his Sonic '06 design was really... not great.

And it's so weird, because the differences can be so subtle from game to game. But something about Smash 4's Sonic is definitely "my Sonic."

 

[JoeInky]

I think personally classic sonic would have fit in really well with classic megaman and classic pacman because the generations model is so, so good. But yeah, the sm4sh model doesn't look horrible so that's the best you can hope for really?

I think this would just look even better in smash though, but they would have to give his moves a bit of an overhaul due to it not really fitting classic sonic.

 

[Nickle]

I always jump with the d-pad.

Do you mean that you jump by pushing up on the circle pad? Or are you allowed to play with the d-pad on the 3DS version?

 

[Galang]

I'd be extremely extremely surprised if there were no new Zelda characters. Seems a bit weird to me... And I actually think Ridley has pretty good chances. That boss stage tease seemed a bit too obvious of a troll.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Do you mean that you jump by pushing up on the circle pad? Or are you allowed to play with the d-pad on the 3DS version?

No, I mean I always jump pushing up on the d-pad in previous Smash games. I am planning to do the same with Smash 3DS, be it on the circle pad or on the d-pad.

 

[superNESjoe]

why tho? there are usually a handful of characters that are tourney viable and we'll see over and over again and i don't enjoy MM as a character that's why i'm hoping he won't be one of them.

Because sensible people would hope the majority of the characters, or all of them, end up being balanced and viable. It makes for more diverse match ups and a more interesting game.

Your response was completely ludicrous and selfish.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I think personally classic sonic would have fit in really well with classic megaman and classic pacman because the generations model is so, so good. But yeah, the sm4sh model doesn't look horrible so that's the best you can hope for really?

I think it would be a hard sell to model Sonic after classic Sonic specifically in Smash. His legacy is well-known and he certainly is recognizable, but Sonic is also still trying to make a name for himself in the modern gaming world. He doesn't shine as bright as Mario, but I think it's important that he be presented with the same contemporary design. These characters have had such long journeys and sharing this stage is a big deal - even if it's the second time now.

Having modern Mario and classic Sonic would demonstrate Sonic's prime has passed him. And this is true. But I also think the fact his prime has passed him and he's still trying to make it work is part of his character. Seeing modern Sonic, who hasn't really nailed it in a long time, be in Super Smash Bros is sort of like holding on to hope. And not in a pathetic way. Like, Sonic still matters. It's only a matter of time. Here he is running with the greats and he's not ashamed of how he looks in comparison because he belongs here.

This got weirdly personal.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Well that's it Joe, it would have fit so well with the other two third-party characters, who are obviously trying to evoke a retro feel. I mean Mega-Man looks so damn good. I'm not even a MM fan per say and I appreciate the work put into his model.

I think it would be a hard sell to model Sonic after classic Sonic specifically in Smash. His legacy is well-known and he certainly is recognizable, but Sonic is also still trying to make a name for himself in the modern gaming world. He doesn't shine as bright as Mario, but I think it's important that he be presented with the same contemporary design. These characters have had such long journeys and sharing this stage is a big deal - even if it's the second time now.

Having modern Mario and classic Sonic would demonstrate Sonic's prime has passed him. And this is true. But I also think the fact his prime has passed him and he's still trying to make it work is part of his character. Seeing modern Sonic, who hasn't really nailed it in a long time, be in Super Smash Bros is sort of like holding on to hope. And not in a pathetic way. Like, Sonic still matters. It's only a matter of time. Here he is running with the greats and he's not ashamed of how he looks in comparison because he belongs here.

This got weirdly personal.

SSB is becoming a home for unwanted third party characters. Except Crash Bandicoot. He's not allowed in.

 

[Diprosalic]

Because sensible people would hope the majority of the characters, or all of them, end up being balanced and viable. It makes for more diverse match ups and a more interesting game.

that's just being unrealistic.

 

[Hatchtag]

I think personally classic sonic would have fit in really well with classic megaman and classic pacman because the generations model is so, so good. But yeah, the sm4sh model doesn't look horrible so that's the best you can hope for really?

I think this would just look even better in smash though, but they would have to give his moves a bit of an overhaul due to it not really fitting classic sonic.

Honestly, I think Sonic has the worst moveset in Brawl in terms of design. They had to take a lot of creative liberties with it, and it shows. 3 of the specials look really similar, most his moves that aren't him in a ball aren't very good, etc. But Classic Sonic would require even more work than Modern Sonic to work in Smash. Megaman works because his games are designed heavily around power-ups, giving him a bunch of moves to choose from. Pac-man works by borrowing moves heavily from other Namco games. Sonic's design does take some inspiration from Virtual Fighter, iirc, and that certainly wouldn't work with Classic Sonic.

 

[superNESjoe]

that's just being unrealistic.

Having unrealistic hopes is different than unrealistic expectations. To straight up desire that a very popular character is garbage simply because you dont like him is terrible.

There really is no reasoning your way out of that.

 

[SuperSah]

Y - Attack
X - Special
A/B - Jump
R - Shield
L - Grab

 

[User 73706]

If you guys want villains, a Pokemon trainer that fights for himself, and slight retention of those old Pokemon Trainer mechanics, why not Giovanni? His Down Special could work as a rotation mechanic where he starts his stock out by himself.

Summon Pokemon -> Withdraw Pokemon - Summon Second Pokemon -> Withdraw Second Pokemon -> Summon Third Pokemon -> Withdraw Third Pokemon

And so on and so forth. You'd have to perform your Down Special twice to switch from one Pokemon to another, and Giovanni is one of the only human Pokemon reps that wouldn't be useless without them. He could have a pretty straightforward team along the lines of Nidoking (bowser-y), Rhyhorn (as a mount / wario bike) and Machamp (little mac with faster attacks but lower damage per attack).

Only Giovanni's specials would use his Pokemon that's out. The tilts, smashes, etc. would remain the same. It'd also work kind of like Ice Climbers meets Pokemon Trainer with regards to stocks, where you have to take out Giovanni for it to count as a KO, but if one of his Pokemon is KO'd, it's unable to battle for that stock. So, for example, if Giovanni was trying to recover and had his Machamp sacrifice itself by throwing him back onstage with an Up Special, he wouldn't be able to call in Machamp until Giovanni respawned.

As far as an actual moveset, you could pull from all the weird anime shit like jetpacks and grabby claws, or go the other way and take the grittier elements from RBY and use whips, stun batons, brass knuckles, etc.

If we're going the duality / rivalry route, he'd also be a great rival to Mewtwo.

 

[Hatchtag]

Y - Attack
X - Special
A/B - Jump
R - Shield
L - Grab

My set up for Brawl, which I actually played using a classic controller most of the time, was a for special, b for attack, y for jump, x for grab, and L/R for shield. I'll probably go with that again on 3DS since I'm semi-used to it. It's really important for my muscle memory that the jump button in smash is the highest face button, for whatever reason.

If you guys want villains, a Pokemon trainer that fights for himself, and slight retention of those old Pokemon Trainer mechanics, why not Giovanni? His Down Special could work as a rotation mechanic where he starts his stock out by himself.

Summon Pokemon -> Withdraw Pokemon - Summon Second Pokemon -> Withdraw Second Pokemon -> Summon Third Pokemon -> Withdraw Third Pokemon

And so on and so forth. You'd have to perform your Down Special twice to switch from one Pokemon to another, and Giovanni is one of the only human Pokemon reps that wouldn't be useless without them. He could have a pretty straightforward team along the lines of Nidoking (bowser-y), Rhyhorn (as a mount / wario bike) and Machamp (little mac with faster attacks but lower damage per attack).

Only Giovanni's specials would use his Pokemon that's out. The tilts, smashes, etc. would remain the same. It'd also work kind of like Ice Climbers meets Pokemon Trainer with regards to stocks, where you have to take out Giovanni for it to count as a KO, but if one of his Pokemon is KO'd, it's unable to battle for that stock. So, for example, if Giovanni was trying to recover and had his Machamp sacrifice itself by throwing him back onstage with an Up Special, he wouldn't be able to call in Machamp until Giovanni respawned.

As far as an actual moveset, you could pull from all the weird anime shit like jetpacks and grabby claws, or go the other way and take the grittier elements from RBY and use whips, stun batons, brass knuckles, etc.

If we're going the duality / rivalry route, he'd also be a great rival to Mewtwo.

This suggestion is so out there, would require so much unnecessary work, and would be so unlikely to happen that I can almost see Sakurai doing it.

 

[JoeInky]

Honestly, I think Sonic has the worst moveset in Brawl in terms of design. They had to take a lot of creative liberties with it, and it shows. 3 of the specials look really similar, most his moves that aren't him in a ball aren't very good, etc. But Classic Sonic would require even more work than Modern Sonic to work in Smash. Megaman works because his games are designed heavily around power-ups, giving him a bunch of moves to choose from. Pac-man works by borrowing moves heavily from other Namco games. Sonic's design does take some inspiration from Virtual Fighter, iirc, and that certainly wouldn't work with Classic Sonic.

I don't know so much about that honestly.

Give him a controllable Tails recovery, switch the spring to his neutral B except make it so that it doesn't auto jump on use and let him kick it around like the soccer ball to use as a projectile as well as reduce the jump height it gives by atleast half, side-b would be the spin dash, down b would be a charge move where when fully charged you get one of the elemental shields that does minor damage and hitstun on contact or something until you get hit.

The rest of his a-moves don't really need to have that much thought put into them because most of the characters normals are completely made up anyway, but I get what you're trying to say considering his limbs are tiny and wouldn't work as well for those moves, they'd just need to get a bit more creative I guess but it could work.

 

[Dr. Buni]

If you guys want villains, a Pokemon trainer that fights for himself, and slight retention of those old Pokemon Trainer mechanics, why not Giovanni? His Down Special could work as a rotation mechanic where he starts his stock out by himself..

I don't.

I want villains (only Ridley and K. Rool maybe), but I am actually glad Pokémon Trainer isn't back.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I don't think there'll be DLC for the record, but I'll buy an Ivysaur pack in a hot second.

 

[JoeInky]

The only villain pokemon needs included is Mewtwo.

Pokemon trainer was a cool idea on paper but it was so shit that it's not worth trying again, sakurai would most definitely keep the stupid shit like the stamina.

 

[Crocodile]

By that logic I imagine your average Japanese person would be more likely to recognize a GS character over Punch Out. Honestly I imagine most people outside of gamers wouldn't recognize either regardless of country. We've had enough "princess/blue swordsman/etc" on tumblr/reddit to know outside of Mario/Link/etc the MAJOR characters very few video game characters are that recognizable.

Lets be honest here, had Sakurai saved the boxing ring stage for Little Mac's reveal and the gematsu leak never happened, most people would have talked about Little Mac the same way they talk about a CR, GS, or S&P rep. The one two punch of "oh hey a boxing arena stage" and "wait wut wii fit trainer didn't someone 'guess her' along with villager/mega man?" Is why a lot of people expected Little Mac.

Again I must emphasis, I don't expect a GS rep in this game outside of maybe dlc, I just don't want to get tied up in a world of "this character will never happen" and hey had the Gematsu leak not happened we'd probably be talking about Shulk in the same "probably won't happen" conversation as opposed to the "all but confirmed" one.

A) Don't we have Japanese comments going on about "who is Little Mac"? I think its fair to say Punch Out has little influence in the East That being said, nothing I've ever seen or heard makes me think GS is a big deal in non-English speaking countries so I don't think that IP has another audience to cater to as a counterbalance. Psyengery has sweet potential for a moveset but as has already been said, to most of the world, Issac is Generic JRPG protanigst #1542542.

B) There are tiers of recognizablilty. Just because everybody isn't "Mario" tier doesn't mean they are "who?" tier either and that certainly has a non-zero influence on their eligibility. I sincerely don't know how you can equate Little Mac to GS, S&P, etc. in terms of notoriety amongst the English speaking world. Again, I'm not sure which metrics I'd use to quantify my argument (which unfortunately causes this discussion to head towards a dead end) but I feel you are being naive or uninformed if you think Little Mac is in the same tier as those other IPs.

C) I agree with your last paragraph (though I think one can make a convincing argument that Xenoblade's stock within the Nintendo zeitgeist is actually quite high if you wanted) and you certainly have 315345345324x more sense than a lot of people out there who champion character X.

Good thing I am not close minded enough to hate any Metroid rep not named Ridley. As long as said rep isn't Adam Malkovich or a Prime Hunters character, of course.

See that's my fear though

Classic Sonic bit

Let's not forget, Sega has some say in how Sonic is represented. If they don't want Classic Sonic in the game, we won't get Classic Sonic.

 

[SuperSah]

Whole tournament is on YouTube and so is the epic 25 minute Bowser vs Bowser showdown.

There's more today, right?

 

[Dr. Buni]

Mewtwo isn't even a villain. It was an antagonist in one movie and it clearly wasn't evil (like, you know, villains are). It would be nice to have it back, though... I think. Ah, if Mewtwo is back, I think it will be the one from the movie 16 and not the one from movie 01, because of Mega Evolution shenanigans. I hope it have the female voice like in movie 16.

See that's my fear though

 

[User 73706]

Mewtwo was basically an anti-villain in the same way Meta Knight and (debatably) Dedede are.

 

[Storm Kyleis]

So, I think I got it this time (lol). Last post about this for now. If you want to add your information to the NeoGAF Community List, quote this post to get the link. The spreadsheet is right here.

Thanks for the list.

Submitted my friend code, I'm going to add the fellow European players. There's very few of us so far D:

 

[Hero Prinny]

I don't.

I want villains (only Ridley and K. Rool maybe), but I am actually glad Pokémon Trainer isn't back.

you make me sad. RIP squirtle and Ivy <3 we got left with the shitter one out of the 3. At least mewtwo is coming back tho... Hopefully... pls sakurai >.>

 

[Hatchtag]

The only villain pokemon needs included is Mewtwo.

Pokemon trainer was a cool idea on paper but it was so shit that it's not worth trying again, sakurai would most definitely keep the stupid shit like the stamina.

N would work really well, imo.

Pokemon Trainer would need severe rebalancing, but I still do like the general concept. It'd be a bit complex, but I think having each Pokemon have its own stock could work well. Would get complex in matches that don't have stocks in a multiple of 3, though.

Mewtwo was basically an anti-villain in the same way Meta Knight and (debatably) Dedede are.

Pokemon doesn't really have many villains who don't have a change of heart at some point. Ghetsis and (arguably) Giovanni are the only villains who never do.

 

[Diprosalic]

but I am actually glad Pokémon Trainer isn't back.

Your response was completely ludicrous and selfish.

 

[JoeInky]

Rewatching that bowser vs bowser GF was a bit disappointing just because of how bad I realised the guy playing default bowser was, Larry is a great player obviously but the other guy was so bad at punishing that larry was able to throw out a lot more unsafe moves than you'd probably ever be able to see in a game with two high skill players.


I mean you'd never see that many dairs or fairs go unpunished at an actual tournament.

 

[Deleted member 74300]

Your response was completely ludicrous and selfish.

But unlike yours his is right.

 

[Diprosalic]

But unlike yours his is right.

booo-urns.

it's a perfectly valid opinion for him to have. I like PKM Trainer and i wanted him back without the exhaust mechanic.