Not75Drops
Member
Kojima obviously does know but he can't say either way. His "Please use Snake" comes off as strange because at that point, it would have probably been too late to add Snake.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
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Kojima obviously does know but he can't say either way. His "Please use Snake" comes off as strange because at that point, it would have probably been too late to add Snake.
The only way I see voicing being an issue is if David Hayter really will voice Solid Snake, just not Big Boss, and Kojoma doesn't wanna spoil the surprise. Otherwise, I don't see it being an issue at all. They would have budgeted for it.
Solution: Sakurai voices Snake
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I'm going to repost someone's quote from SmashBoards with some modification with NeoGAF features.
leprechaunlink727 said:I decided to try and start a fairly comprehensive list while waiting for tonight's PotD. I'll try to be as unbias as possible. I'm not including any arguably subjective stuff like "he's a Sony character" or "he doesn't fit". Regardless of whether these arguments hold any weight, they're irrelevant to this post, which is focused on just cold hard facts. I'll finish elaborating on each piece of evidence later (it's late and I have to drive for four hours tomorrow morning...sycho
, but here's what I've got so far. Feel free to point out anything I've missed. Or argue that certain pieces of evidence have been miscategorized.
Will Snake be in Super Smash Bros Wii U/3DS?
For- Facts that point towards Snake's inclusion (with Bold)
Against- Facts that point towards Snake's exclusion (with Highlight)
Ambiguous- Facts regarding Snake, Metal Gear, or Smash that could point in either direction or be completely irrelevant, but are certainly intriguing (with Underline)
Tinfoil Hats- Info that is either of dubious relevance or veracity that involves Snake, Metal Gear, or Smash 4 in some way (With Italic)
The Plain Evidence:
1. MGS3D's release coincided very closely with the beginning of development
According to interviews with Sakurai, development on Smash 4 began after the release of Kid Icarus: Uprising, Sakurai's previous project, and the full roster was decided on at the very beginning of development. KI:U was released on March 22nd, 2012 in Japan, exactly two weeks after the Japanese release (March 8th) of MGS: Snake Eater 3D. This means that at the time the roster was being put together, there was a heavily promoted exclusive Metal Gear title released on a Nintendo console that was at most, about a month old, making Metal Gear actually very relevant to Nintendo at the time.
2. Like MGS: The Twin Snakes, the most recent Nintendo Metal Gear at the time of Brawl's development, MGS3D was built from the bottom up as a Nintendo exclusive
While releasing an updated port of a universally acclaimed classic is not exactly a huge risk, MGS3D was released about a year after the 3DS, when sales of the handheld were still falling well below expectations. This suggests Konami was fairly recently willing to support Nintendo even when it did not seem prudent from a business perspective. MGS3D was one of the first third party titles announced for the 3DS, and while it suffered from framerate issues, this is a very common issue with titles released in the early part of any console's life, and the game was far from a half ***** copy and paste port. MGS3D, while a remake (of the greatest game in the series), was modified with updated models and textures that arguably look better than those in the HD version released on PS3 and XBOX360 around the same time. MGS3D also included numerous gameplay tweaks and streamlined touches to bring it in line with more recent Metal Gear releases, as well as unique features designed to make use of the 3DS's stereoscopic 3D, gyroscope, and integrated camera. The game also featured a cameo by Yoshi, including a newly recorded codec conversation about Yoshi as well. The situation is similar to the release of MGS: The Twin Snakes on the Gamecube, which likewise featured updated graphics and gameplay as well as Nintendo cameos and references. The Twin Snakes came out in March of 2004, a full year and a half before Brawl's development, which started in October of 2005, while MGS3D was released within a few weeks of the beginning of Smash 4's development. Twin Snakes also came out for the Gamecube, as opposed to the Wii, while MGS3D was released on the 3DS, one of the systems that Smash is actually releasing on.
3. Sakurai tweeted from the private MGS 25th anniversary event held during E3 2012, after Smash 4 had already been announced, meaning Sakurai was well aware of the implications of broadcasting his presence at this event to the world
4. Snake is a veteran with an extremely unique move set who represents an entire series, was well received in Brawl, was the first third party character in Smash history (and evidence suggests that he was originally intended to be the only one), and was added to Brawl by Sakurai first and foremost as a personal favor to a friend, only narrowly missing the chance to be included in Melee as well
5. Snake, the very first third party character announced for Brawl, has yet to be announced for Smash 4, which is not only releasing in a little over a month, but has already seen three other third party characters announced, including a fairly early announcement for Sonic, the only other third party veteran
6. Metal Gear, while always a series featuring heavy subject matter and adult themes, looks to be taking a nosedive deeper into darkness with the upcoming MGSV: The Phantom Pain, which will prominently feature such controversial themes as the psychological and physical effects of amputation, child soldiers, conflict diamonds, torture, war rape, and the protagonist's slow descent into amoral villainy in his relentless quest for vengeance, all of this being a rather jarring contrast with the far more lighthearted tone of prior Metal Gear games, let alone the happy go lucky worlds of Mario and Zelda
7. Hideo Kojima, the mastermind of the Metal Gear Series, when asked directly in a Twitch TV interview with Geoff Keighley whether Snake would be reappearing, responded that he didn't think so
The exact quote, delivered with a smile to the camera that could be interpreted as either conciliatory and uncomfortable or puckish and cheeky:
"I'm not working on that game so I don't know, but I don't think that's likely," said Kojima. "Well, if Mr. Sakurai is watching this, please use Snake."
BUUUUUT...
8. Hideo Kojima is a notorious master of lies and deception unmatched in the gaming world, whose storied history of pranks and chicanery means his words should never be taken at face value
9. Similar comments were made by Sega, Capcom, and Namco representatives regarding Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man before they were announced
10. A Namco representative asked directly about Snake at E3 responded by saying "Uhhh... no, we have not announced Solid Snake yet." (emphasis mine)
11. Snake did not appear in Sony's Smash knock-off Playstation All-Stars: Battle Royale, despite being an obvious choice, and the Metal Gear series was instead represented by Raiden
It's worth noting that both Capcom and Namco were also represented, although not by Megaman or Pac-Man.
12. Some new moves/items in Smash 4, including ZSS's new Final Smash, Sheik's new side B, and the Steel Diver weapon bear a rather superficial resemblance to Snake's Final Smash, neutral B, and side B respectively, leading some to suggest Snake's moveset has been broken up and divvied up among the roster
13. David Hayter, Snake's English VO for most of the series as well as Brawl, has been replaced by big name Hollywood actor Keifer Sutherland of 24 fame for MGSV
14. Keifer Sutherland revealed in an interview with IGN that he contributed voice work to an upcoming fighting game, specifically... Mortal Kombat
In an interview with IGN regarding his work on MGSV, Kiefer Suthlerland, the new English voice of Snake in MGSV let slip that he had recorded work for an upcoming Mortal Kombat game:
"I did Mortal Kombat, and that's such a huge game, but its so not like MGS5."
Despite the newest Mortal Kombat being announced at E3 2014, with a steady drip of new information revealed since then, nothing has yet been announced regarding Keifer Sutherland's involvement, despite the fact that AAA games usually flaunt the involvement of Hollywood talent as soon as they can. This has led some to believe that Kiefer Sutherland was confusing Mortal Kombat for Smash Bros. I think this is reaching. First of all, give the man some credit. If he was hired to do voice acting for a project, he would know its name. Secondly, the actual quote draws a clear distinction between working on Mortal Kombat and on MGSV, suggesting that it is unlikely he is playing the same character in both projects. While it is mysterious that his involvement has not been announced, there are any number of reasons this could be the case.
In contrast, some have suggested that Keifer was talking about Mortal Kombat, because Snake will be making a surprise guest appearance in that game instead of in Smash Bros. While this would be far from the most outlandish Metal Gear crossover if it turned out to be true (Ape Escape, Monster Hunter, Assassin's Creed, Little Big Planet, and a Smash clone that also features Barbie and Optimus Prime have all crossed over with Metal Gear at some point), I really think this is a ridiculous extrapolation unless we see more evidence.
15. Snake has thus far not been mentioned in any capacity by the Gematsu leaker, who is seen by many to have been discredited by Chrom's disconfirtmation anyways
16. A notable video game motion capture artist said in an interview that he had acted as Raiden in Smash Bros, tweeting the same day the interview was released that he had been mistaken and had meant Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale
17. This is all part of a vast conspiracy orchestrated by the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
balladofwindfishes
Member
But it's more of a cost than porting other characters. When weighing if they should bring him back, they'd need to weigh the costs of voice acting vs impact of having him in the game. With Sonic or Fox, who received new voice recordings, it was obviously worth it, as both as important to not just Smash, but Nintendo as a whole. With Snake, coupled with him requiring more dialog in general, I don't know if the costs would be worth it.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I honestly think he just doesn't want to show off more bosses. What ambiguous teases are we talking about? There's only three, right? The latest of which he showed what was clearly Ridley while saying that there are more bosses? Not really ambiguous in my opinion.
I know the whole shadow thing makes Ridley at least a little different, but think about it this way. When Starfy was shown in a PoTD with no explanation other than a comment about how he's yellow, everyone immediately assumed he was an AT because he was an AT in Brawl. When a Brawl boss is shown (it's obvious who it is, even if it's a shadow) while Sakurai talks about how there are more stage bosses, it's apparently an ambiguous tease. It's weird.
It's the bargaining stage of grief, man.
I don't think Snake's voice acting, even with alll his lines, would cost that much. It'd probably be somewhat worth it. Also, if Kiefer voices in Mortal Kombat, I doubt he'd be unwilling to nor out of the budget for Smash 4.
I would assume they'd just get Hayter if he's down for it.
Eh, I've never seen that as a full disconfirmation considering he's a highly requested character and that they've never done anything like that with other highly requested characters.
Also SHADOWANALYSIS
I want Ridley in just because there's been no newcomer I've really wanted so far, they've all ranged from middling/expected to "Holy shit I'm glad this character isn't allowed online so I never have to look at that trash".
Not really a similar comparison. Especially since Sakurai is clearly aware of how much hype surrounds Ridley.
I DO think he's a stage boss, but I also know that it is still ambiguous because Sakurai did that with the full intent of having people speculate on what it all means.
You guys are also assuming we'll get another shadow moses-style codec thing. Not to mention, in japan, it's the same voice actor, no kiefer shenanigans, so it's only the NA voice acting thing, which may not be too huge of a consideration for sakurai and team. I'm sure hayter is up for voice acting snake in the US version anyway, it's not like konami hates him.
These are awesome! I want to own them.
Lol thanks for the explanation, but I'm afraid I was just being a smartass with the guy. I know about the shadow, and like you said I know Sakurai is someone that loves to toy with the communities' emotions. When Sakurai hinted/revealed yellow devil there wasn't any mystery or shroud of doubt surrounding his inclusion in the game. With Ridley, all he's shown is a shadow. I don't think people should be deconfirming a character because of a shadow they saw in a 2 second clip.
I'm someone that believes Ridley will be in the game, but unfortunately all I have to show is hope and fan excitement. If he doesn't make it on the roster, my feelings/hype towards Smash 4 will not change. I'm super fucking excited for this game and I can't wait to play it. If he does indeed make it on the roster how exciting will that be? VERY EXCITING! I don't know why people try to bash the hopes of others by telling them a whole bunch of reasons why their favorite character isn't going to make it into the game. Let us hope and let us set ourselves up for disappointment. Its the cycle of being a fan of something and I won't trade those raw emotions for being a realist on a forum.
Snake does honestly make the most sense to be an unnanounced third party, seeing that sneaking up on people and surprising them is his whole thing.
I really want this snake to be Naked Snake just so I can have old man Boss as a costume.
And a five-hour cutscene.
It makes sense to put him in the very last newcomer trailer with a "kept you waiting, huh?" line.
It would be a nice contrast to the fact that he was shown in the first Brawl trailer.
But it also made sense to show the Captain Falcon reveal trailer in front of thousands of fighting game/Smash fans and 100,000+ stream viewers instead of putting it on youtube the day after, so I don't think "sense" is something that should be taken into consideration.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
It wasn't a trailer for Captain Falcon; it was a trailer to show that Lucina sucks.
Ew.
SenorArdilla
Member
Sakurai is figuratively a dick?
I literally know what the word literally means, I was literally just using the figurative literally.
I also use it because it annoys people on /v/, whether it's wrong or not can be damned
Man just had his birthday yesterday! Be nice! I'd rather one of my favorite video games NOT be designed by a literal phallus.
Nothing about this is really obvious. I think you're going off of preconceived ideas, which characters like Lucina (as a clone) has dismantled time and time again. Also, Palutena says something different in the Japanese version of the trailer.
PhoenixDawn
Member
Yep, the only way to unlock Snake in SSB4 will be to sit through a 5 hour long credit/cutscene sequence that has random QTE dispersed throughout it to ensure that you actually have to sit through it and not just leave it on over night.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Hey cool, keep it on /v/ then.
I don't see why "it'd cost a lot for voice acting" is a valid reason to write Snake off, since A) despite their recent and continued losses Nintendo still has an assload of money, and B) assuming we'd get more codec convos like in Brawl when they could just as easily NOT do that if time and VA cost were really an issue.
Snake is the only other character I really want in this and I would cut Jigglypuff and Lucas and non-boss Ridley in two seconds if that's what it took.
Yeah, it could really be anything. It might mean that his trailer is his only appearance. It might mean he's a palette swap for pit. It might mean he's an alternate costume for pit (w/ alternate dialogue). It might mean he's a pit clone like lucina (slower/stronger or lighter/faster) version. It might mean he's a luigi-fied clone (like falco is to fox). He might be an entirely different character (all different specials at least). He might be a stage hazard. He might be a stage boss. He might be an assist trophy.
We won't know for sure. The trailer implies he's in the game... but then why did he not get a banner? Even if he's a lucina-type clone, at least lucina got a banner. We'll see.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
What if instead of Ridley, the king kihunter trophy was hinting at a Space Pirate character? I don't know if they are already enemies in Smash Run, but that didn't stop R.O.B. before.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I'd watch it, but I have a 200 word essay due in 5 days.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Or the hero of Other M, Anthony.
Well, his appearance is like G&W in the end of Pac-Man trailer, it made sense to appear there, but nothing else happened
MrSaturn99
Member
What if instead of Ridley, the King Kihunter trophy was hinting at King Kihunter?
Seems like a natural choice.
Seems like a natural choice.
There's a Zenith thread.
Pizza Luigi
Member
Isn't twohundred words like, half a page?
SenorArdilla
Member
Was that something a Little Birdie told you?
Weiner Whistle
Member
I made a thread specifically for it (just like every Smash US major): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=123829700
No one's posting in it, though.
MrSaturn99
Member
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, from what I heard that they are not going to replace the voice actor for Colonel because they want to honor Takeshi Aono's works. He passed away couple of years ago.
It's plausible that he wouldn't shown up in Smash 4 if Snake actually got in.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
What's up with your avatar? I recognized that it's Archie but I can't recognized the artwork.
I'm watching it tho.
InvincibleAgent
Member
Maybe King Kihunter was referring to Zero Suit Samus being a separate character.
I feel like this is the strongest evidence against Snake's inclusion.
Unless Sakurai announces a special, Smash Bros Direct that will unveil a new character, like NOW, it's not looking good for Snake. I doubt he's just going to be a secret character that's unlockable in the final game. They're going to promote Snake in Smash Bros if he's in Smash Bros.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
From one of the covers in the "Archie's death" issue:
Thanks!
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