Extra damage isn't pointless, and Makoto and Honda both benefit from double ultra in some matchups.
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Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra
- Thread starter Kadey
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Extra damage isn't pointless, and Makoto and Honda both benefit from double ultra in some matchups.
Not via the XBL marketplace directly since it won't let you, but apparently there will be something set up via Gamestop. (like a code bundle)
I'm trying to dust off my arcade stick... and arcade stick skills, and give ol' Super Street Fighter 4 AE '12 another go before Ultra hits. And I figure the best way to do that is learning a new character. So... Makoto. Been meaning to give her a go.
Tried her out in the Training Room, she packs a wallop, although I'll have to get used to that walk speed. However, it hits me that I have no idea what a good basic Makoto actually does. I mean, Ryu chucks fireballs, counters jumps with Shoryukens and uses his decent normals to bait the opponent into overextending. Zangief just wants a hug. Don't let him get one.
But Makoto? What does Makoto want? I think she might want to set up Karakusas, but they do so little damage on their own that what I probably mean is she wants to Karakusa -> L Hayate -> EX Hayate or something. That's just a hunch, though. I downloaded that PDF guide to her, the Rindoukan Bible, and that's a lot of information overload at this point. Awesome guide, though.
So, to boil it down to a single question, really: What does a rookie Makoto want?
Tried her out in the Training Room, she packs a wallop, although I'll have to get used to that walk speed. However, it hits me that I have no idea what a good basic Makoto actually does. I mean, Ryu chucks fireballs, counters jumps with Shoryukens and uses his decent normals to bait the opponent into overextending. Zangief just wants a hug. Don't let him get one.
But Makoto? What does Makoto want? I think she might want to set up Karakusas, but they do so little damage on their own that what I probably mean is she wants to Karakusa -> L Hayate -> EX Hayate or something. That's just a hunch, though. I downloaded that PDF guide to her, the Rindoukan Bible, and that's a lot of information overload at this point. Awesome guide, though.
So, to boil it down to a single question, really: What does a rookie Makoto want?
Makoto is an in your face mix-up character. She has a hard time getting in, but when she does she is supposed to dominate. Get the hard knockdown, stand over them, and watch them panic. The fear of her command grab will make people jump, her meaties will punish those jumps, then the command grab punishes those anticipating the meaties.
One of the top SF4 Makoto's is Haitani, check out some videos on Youtube.
And if you're serious about Makoto, you have to get the timing down to link s.hp xx hayate after command grab. It takes some practice.
Obviously, it's character specific, I wouldn't get in Zangief/THawk's face, and you'll have to be cautious against characters with good reversals.
One of the top SF4 Makoto's is Haitani, check out some videos on Youtube.
And if you're serious about Makoto, you have to get the timing down to link s.hp xx hayate after command grab. It takes some practice.
Karakusa, st. HP xx HP Hayate?
Looking that up in the PDF it's a... 6 frame link? Well THAT shouldn't be hard to learn, then. Honestly, the hard part will be when to use Karakusa, the rest could probably be autopiloted from that.
Her target combos seem really powerful. MK, HK and f.HP, HP both do a lot of damage. (And do I spy a cute mixup in going MK, walk, Karakusa after teaching the opponent to block?)
I'd like to learn how to use her jumping kick that I really can't spell the name of properly. QCB+k in the air, seems like that's pretty useful. But maybe I should wait with that. Learn the Karakusa setup first, then worry about the jump in later. Trying to learn too much at the same time means learning neither. I just want a bit of firepower before taking her online against real opponents.
EX Hayate is so going to lose me some fights, though. It's just so... tempting. BAM! Makoto in your face! I'm willing to pay that price. I'll learn when not to eventually.
I need to unlock her colors first, though. Ah, well. Fast VS mode fights and I should have all ten quick.
Looking that up in the PDF it's a... 6 frame link? Well THAT shouldn't be hard to learn, then. Honestly, the hard part will be when to use Karakusa, the rest could probably be autopiloted from that.
Her target combos seem really powerful. MK, HK and f.HP, HP both do a lot of damage. (And do I spy a cute mixup in going MK, walk, Karakusa after teaching the opponent to block?)
I'd like to learn how to use her jumping kick that I really can't spell the name of properly. QCB+k in the air, seems like that's pretty useful. But maybe I should wait with that. Learn the Karakusa setup first, then worry about the jump in later. Trying to learn too much at the same time means learning neither. I just want a bit of firepower before taking her online against real opponents.
EX Hayate is so going to lose me some fights, though. It's just so... tempting. BAM! Makoto in your face! I'm willing to pay that price. I'll learn when not to eventually.
I need to unlock her colors first, though. Ah, well. Fast VS mode fights and I should have all ten quick.
stn
Member
I'm looking at Rolento's rekka and wondering if it can suddenly be punished since it doesn't have too much range. In a game with so many defensive options he needs some reliable chip pressure. Man, I really hate what Capcom has done to him, Guile, Akuma, Dee-Jay, Sagat, Fei-Long, and Seth. I'm already hoping for a 2015 patch.
Robot Pants
Member
If you're serious about Makoto, press buttonz.
Professor Beef
Banned
In makoto's case her normal combo from karakusa does 2 damage less than karakusa -> ultra 1 (lvl 1) in ultra combo W.
Her hard combo from karakusa that has the hayate cancel does 28 more damage than karakusa ultra 1 (lvl 1) in ultra combo W.
what do you mean by lvl1 ultra 1?
as in the moment you get access to an ultra, but the ultra bar is not full.
They do different damage depending on if the ultra meter is 50% or 100%.
100% is what most people measure in combo damage, but landing 50% is way more realistic.
So due to the knee shot damage nerf I went into training mode to see what the max damage is i could get off it off an easily confirmable normal (keep in mind that knee shot > close forward IS possible in AE2012). My findings:
Max damage in USF4 (disregarding anything extremely character specific like double close forwards):
Knee Shot > st.mk > st.mp xx hk sobat = 283dmg/346stun >>>> 263dmg/346stun with knee shot damage nerf
And for AE2012:
Knee shot > st.lp > cl.mk > cr.mp xx hk sobat = 270dmg/330stun
Also keep in mind that knee shot > cl.lp is a more consistent link than knee shot > cl.mk. Both have hard 1f links (cl.mk > far.mp in USF4, cl.mk > cr.mp)
So...yeah.
On the other hand the increased hitstun will make combos from knee shot actually work on large chars, but damage buff it is not.
also Blackule i gotta give you props man...you have a TON more patience than me.
And i'm not talking about Street Fighter.
Max damage in USF4 (disregarding anything extremely character specific like double close forwards):
Knee Shot > st.mk > st.mp xx hk sobat = 283dmg/346stun >>>> 263dmg/346stun with knee shot damage nerf
And for AE2012:
Knee shot > st.lp > cl.mk > cr.mp xx hk sobat = 270dmg/330stun
Also keep in mind that knee shot > cl.lp is a more consistent link than knee shot > cl.mk. Both have hard 1f links (cl.mk > far.mp in USF4, cl.mk > cr.mp)
So...yeah.
On the other hand the increased hitstun will make combos from knee shot actually work on large chars, but damage buff it is not.
also Blackule i gotta give you props man...you have a TON more patience than me.
And i'm not talking about Street Fighter.
CountBlack
Member
I would've loved in the DJ balance changes video that Combofiend would've mentioned the damage nerf to Knee Shot when he said DJ will get more damage output off the kneeshot because of the hitstun.
Capcom stay gully
Capcom stay gully
CountBlack
Member
Considering they nerfed his U2 damage, knee shot damage, and you can't really do U1 off of a focus attack..
It already scaled terribly off the simplest knee shot combo into U2 in 2012.. now its just going to do less damage.
Cant say for RFC since I'm not playing the PC version (threi)
That was kinda my point
...it doesn't make much of a difference either way.Can't really tell you how much damage he gets since u2 damage got nerfed, but i can tell you that U2 scales VERY heavily in combos.
right now with RFA and full (non-nerfed) U2 he gets about 467 (447) of knee shot > st.mk > st.mp xx mk sobat RFA. add in a jab and that goes down to 398 (378).
If you were looking to go into ultra though it would be a much greater use of meter to just knee shot > cr.lp > cr.mp xx EX MGU > dash > U2. 460 (440) dmg, and only one meter....pretty much what DeeJay players have been doing all along anyways.
That was kinda my point
Can't really tell you how much damage he gets since u2 damage got nerfed, but i can tell you that U2 scales VERY heavily in combos.
right now with RFA and full (non-nerfed) U2 he gets about 467 (447) of knee shot > st.mk > st.mp xx mk sobat RFA. add in a jab and that goes down to 398 (378).
If you were looking to go into ultra though it would be a much greater use of meter to just knee shot > cr.lp > cr.mp xx EX MGU > dash > U2. 460 (440) dmg, and only one meter....pretty much what DeeJay players have been doing all along anyways.
Ah ok. Thanks for the info. Does counter hit knee shot introduce any new combos?
No, it doesn't. All of DeeJay's close heavy buttons are linkable without counterhit, and they either are non-cancellable (close rh, low rh), or you don't get enough charge time to cancel into a special with them (close fp, low fp)
I've gotten my little ghetto stun reset up to 960 now...dunno how to squeeze that extra 40 stun out
*edit* got it http://youtu.be/--WY6F2D2Ho midscreen reset im up to 940 right now
Did anyone else pick up SSFIVAE during the Amazon sale? I used to play a little bit on the 360 but I wanted to double dip so I can stream and record it if I wanted to.
Here's my first super shitty win.
Here's my first super shitty win.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
So is it true they nerfed Sagats tiger shot by three frames? I've seen the changes, but i've read comments complaining about the videos not showing a 3 frame nerf to Sagats tiger shot recovery. Which actually isn't that unbelievable since they added a frame of recovery to Sagats tiger shot in super and no one mentioned it then either!
I really no stealth nerfs this time.
I really no stealth nerfs this time.
CountBlack
Member
It's in the official change log.
The video of the changes doesn't show a lot of the stealth nerfs.
RockTurtle
Member
guy felt more stiff and heavy, he's weaker i tells you!
Robot Pants
Member
Pfft. Guy players. Scum I tells you
direct_quote
Member
For a Ninja he really needs to learn not to float so much when he jumps....
Professor Beef
Banned
It's those PF Flyers he's wearing.
Rice-Eater
Member
Over the past week their has been a lot of hype over Evil Ryu. A lot of people are saying that their will be a incoming Evil Ryu army when USF4 comes out. The hype is not over him being the best character in the game or even top 5. It's due to top players switching over to him.
PR Rog picked him up as a sub character a short while back and now Daigo may be switching over to him permanently. His Evil Ryu is #3 overall in Japan for all characters and he's been using exclusively for a while now. Both Wao and Gamerbee have hinted on twitter that they' might be switching to him. And add in Sako who has already been using him for a while now.
Nobody needs to be scared though, I welcome this Evil Ryu army if it exist. Evil Ryu isn't a scary character in the hands of a low/mid level player. What makes him really good is probably something that most players can't do reliably. And he can't derp his way to victory like Cammy or Yun can. For the most part he's a honest and straight forward character. I think he'll probably be top 10, but maybe not top 5 and definitely not in the running as the best character in the game.
Now the return of the Yun army on the other hand might be a bit of a problem. He's not affected by DWU, the SRK/FADC nerf, and he probably benefits the most out of anybody from RFC. He's my secondary so I'm happy he got better but I will dread playing against him with my main. Not that I think the match up is bad, but like Cammy he can blow you up very easily.
PR Rog picked him up as a sub character a short while back and now Daigo may be switching over to him permanently. His Evil Ryu is #3 overall in Japan for all characters and he's been using exclusively for a while now. Both Wao and Gamerbee have hinted on twitter that they' might be switching to him. And add in Sako who has already been using him for a while now.
Nobody needs to be scared though, I welcome this Evil Ryu army if it exist. Evil Ryu isn't a scary character in the hands of a low/mid level player. What makes him really good is probably something that most players can't do reliably. And he can't derp his way to victory like Cammy or Yun can. For the most part he's a honest and straight forward character. I think he'll probably be top 10, but maybe not top 5 and definitely not in the running as the best character in the game.
Now the return of the Yun army on the other hand might be a bit of a problem. He's not affected by DWU, the SRK/FADC nerf, and he probably benefits the most out of anybody from RFC. He's my secondary so I'm happy he got better but I will dread playing against him with my main. Not that I think the match up is bad, but like Cammy he can blow you up very easily.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
where can I find the official change log that mentions the tiger shot nerf?
Capcom Unity, SRK, Event Hubs...
Pop On Arrival
Banned
Was gonna mention I checked all the regular places and none of them mention the 3 frame tiger shot nerf.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2014/01/30/ultra-street-fighter-4-change-list
http://shoryuken.com/2014/04/10/ultra-street-fighter-iv-final-change-list-released/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...g-capcom-all-characters-and-system-mechanics/
virtuoso88
Member
Pop On Arrival
Banned
Thanks!
Landing 50% also isn't necessarily smart, even if you're not insistent on double ultra.
Rice-Eater
Member
That nerf was pretty bad, but the one that makes completely no sense is the change to his Ultra 2. So originally 384 was the max damage and if you land it off a juggle like TU, FADC you got 354 or 315 after a EX tiger shot. They buffed it by giving you full hits but lowering the damage to 309. That seemed fair enough, he gets 367 now from either method. With the bigger buff going to the method off EX tiger shot which he can land full screen.
But now they nerfed the damage to 255. This means he gets 324 damage from either method now which is a tiny buff to landing Ultra off EX tiger shot and a nerf to the TU, FADC method. Why change it in the first place if the end result was going to be this?
But now they nerfed the damage to 255. This means he gets 324 damage from either method now which is a tiny buff to landing Ultra off EX tiger shot and a nerf to the TU, FADC method. Why change it in the first place if the end result was going to be this?
stn
Member
Capcom REALLY sucks at balancing. AE 2011 was just dumb, SFxT 2013 had quite a few bad balance decisions, and now USF4 has a ton of head-scratchers. I wish we could actually gain some insight into the changes as opposed to "Hey everyone, Peter Combofiend Rosas here. We know your character sucks already, but he's more rewarding to play with because of it. Please use red focus to find new opportunities for your character."
Yea this was stupid as well but I think the "reasoning" behind this is they want you to still have to choose between ultras for damage or utility, because if Tiger Cannon did almost as much damage as Destruction I would never use U1.
Might as well have left his ultras alone lmao.
You need to at least touch the game first.
stn
Member
There are some things that are just too obvious. Dee-Jay's lk sobat is a prime example. Technically, with the right spacing it could be safe in 2012. It was also useful at max range for beating out counter-pokes and techs. Now they made it slightly more safe but took away its utility. Capcom thinks its done something amazing for Dee-Jay. Meanwhile, the people who actually play him realize what kind of a negative effect the change will have.
At least they FINALLY nerfed the recovery on U2 post-attack. That stupid dance animation was actually detrimental to your attack options after U2.
At least they FINALLY nerfed the recovery on U2 post-attack. That stupid dance animation was actually detrimental to your attack options after U2.
CountBlack
Member
I remember having to eat wakeup chip damage because I hit someone with DJ's U2.
Couldn't do anything until he could get a wakeup SRK ..
Capcom nerfed DJ more than Akuma which just baffles me
Couldn't do anything until he could get a wakeup SRK ..
Capcom nerfed DJ more than Akuma which just baffles me
Rice-Eater
Member
Well that makes sense since they nerfed his Ultra 1 again. But then again their are plenty of characters with one ultra that is much more useful than the other. Nerfing one to make the other one "look" better is ridiculous. So possibly the final iteration of the LOL combo will supposedly do 438 damage now. A far cry from the Vanilla days when it did 622(Sa-GAT DAYUM).
True, I almost could never punish DJ players for using that against me. They always spaced it out of jab range and not many characters have long range normals that are 5f, which would still be a 1f punish which is kind of difficult.
No more slide > LK sobat anymore. I was actually looking forward to punishing that with Evil Ryu's new target combo. I would get counter hit damage and a knockdown for 190 damage. But Capcom took that away from me by taking away lower body invincibility from DJ so they'll never use that again lol. I guess it'll be slide > EX sobat from now on. At least I have a faster sweep now to punish that.
One of the benefits of having all the hits connect is that the opponent is on the ground longer. Doesn't this create some safe jump setups or is the opponent too far?
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