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Supreme Court: We'll take that, thanks!

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Fix

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Supreme Court rules the city can take your homes and build a WalMart

WASHINGTON -- A divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that local governments may seize people's homes and businesses against their will for private development in a decision anxiously awaited in communities where economic growth often is at war with individual property rights.

The 5-4 ruling represented a defeat for some Connecticut residents whose homes are slated for destruction to make room for an office complex. They argued that cities have no right to take their land except for projects with a clear public use, such as roads or schools, or to revitalize blighted areas.

As a result, cities now have wide power to bulldoze residences for projects such as shopping malls and hotel complexes in order to generate tax revenue.

Writing for the court, Justice John Paul Stevens said local officials, not federal judges, know best in deciding whether a development project will benefit the community. States are within their rights to pass additional laws restricting condemnations if residents are overly burdened, he said.

"The city has carefully formulated an economic development that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including _ but by no means limited to _ new jobs and increased tax revenue," Stevens wrote in an opinion joined by Justice Anthony Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.

"It is not for the courts to oversee the choice of the boundary line nor to sit in review on the size of a particular project area," he said.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has been a key swing vote on many cases before the court, issued a stinging dissent. She argued that cities should not have unlimited authority to uproot families, even if they are provided compensation, simply to accommodate wealthy developers.

Connecticut residents involved in the lawsuit expressed dismay and pledged to keep fighting.

"It's a little shocking to believe you can lose your home in this country," said resident Bill Von Winkle, who said he would refuse to leave his home, even if bulldozers showed up. "I won't be going anywhere. Not my house. This is definitely not the last word."

Scott Bullock, an attorney for the Institute for Justice representing the families, added: "A narrow majority of the court simply got the law wrong today and our Constitution and country will suffer as a result."

At issue was the scope of the Fifth Amendment, which allows governments to take private property through eminent domain if the land is for "public use."

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So, they'll also close all those holes in the tax code that actually allow businesses to avoid contributing to the public good, right? Right?
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
holy shit ... I can't believe the Supreme Court ruled that way. That is insane, and the doors it opens up for corruption ...
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Is there somewhere that shows which judges voted which way?
 
Used to be only roadway contractors could buy their way into "Imminent domain" seizures. Now corporate mini-malls and megastores also have the option to bribe their way into your community!! Free enterprise I tell you!!
 
Yays on this were the more liberal/moderate side: Stevens, Souter, etc.

Dissenters were O'Connor, Rehnquiest, Scalia, and Thomas-the arch-conservatives of the court.
 

ronito

Member
All I know for sure that Sandra Day O'Connor voted against.

I was going to post this but someone beat me to it. This is just a nightmare. I wonder how they even thought it was a good idea. This is easily the worst news I've heard in weeks, and the news is all bad news. Why bother owning property, if all it takes is a big company to say, "We want to build there." and take it away. Sure they have to pay you, but somethings money cannot buy. Unless someone can convince me otherwise my congressman and senator will be getting an angry letter tonight.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
This is insane. I've always had a problem with eminent domain laws in general, but since it was for public works, I begrudgingly accepted it. This, however, is entirely unacceptable.
 

Doth Togo

Member
Agent Dormer said:
3 more years, 3 more years...

:/

actually, you're backwards. the liberal justices voted in favor of this. your hated conservatives tried to stop it.

how about 'dem apples?
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Doth Togo said:
your hated conservatives tried to stop it.

how about 'dem apples?
Because they want to steal your houses for themselves. Talk about evil...
 
Letting commerical development occur on lands seized by eniment domain is really not right, but there are details in this case that aren't being talked about but need mention. First off, this plan was debated and approved by elected officials, and the compensation given to the people displaces will exceed what is required by the state Constitution. If the local govermnet can raise more taxes and create more jobs after the project is complete, then there's "public benefit" in that. If you start curbing in on what "public benefit" comprises, then you're going down a slippery slope that property rights freaks would love to see happen. The SCOTUS has never ruled that a state or local government has violated the "public use" probivision, and that they wouldn't do so now is no surprise.

Any large-scale environmental/conservation efforts in the US require some degree of state, local, or federal government entities exercising eminent domain to form large, contiguous conservation areas-that are sometimes managed, at least for a time, by private organizations like the Nature Conservancy. Eminent domain and subsequent land purchases/swaps isn't unheard of, either. I fear any ruling that goes against eminent domain out of a "slippery slope" principle.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Doth Togo said:
actually, you're backwards. the liberal justices voted in favor of this. your hated conservatives tried to stop it.

how about 'dem apples?

Well, 'dem apples tell me pretty much everyone in government is an asshole.
 

Bluecondor

Member
This decision might be the best thing to ever happen to Pittsburgh, PA. We have several run down sections of our city (our downtown is like a ghost town) that cannot be redeveloped, because property owners of rundown buildings refuse to sell their property, and instead take advantage of a loophole in our tax law to hold onto the land and charge outrageous prices for it.

I see this as a possible tool to combat this kind of land "squatting". I think we could have a halfway decent downtown if economic development is allowed to happen...
 
Yep, this was the work of the SC "liberals", this time, the fucking tools. When did they suddenly turn into States' Rights advocates?

Jesus, you can't even trust yer own to do the right thing. Sometimes, jagoffs, even buttholes like Scalia *do* have the right of it -- and it's doubly sad when counsel as shitty as he is figures it out before you.

Frag, while I agree with you, I still think that this really REALLY upsets the fine-tuned balance of eminent domain in favor of large, strong-arming corporations. It was simply a very bad long-term decision for this country, putting our lands in the hands of easily purchased politicos. It could swing just as easily against privately-held nature conservancies, as well. Commercial operations should NEVER, EVER have access to the eminent domain policy. EVER.
 
The home owners that are due to lose thier homes should stokpile some firearms, call CNN, and wait it out. They may still win but not without a few days of national publicity.

There is no fucking way I would let this happen for a commercial property. Roads are one thing, this is bullshit.
 
My completely uneducated guess is that the SC actually BELIEVED what Frag said, and are so insulated from the realities of modern-day corporate abuse that they figured it was a strong leap forward for economic progress and conservation.

The Founding Fathers and their long-reaching sense of civil libertarian cynicism am crying.
 
CAN WE FUCKING STOP WITH THE DEMONIZING LABELS ALREADY??

Gotdamn...everybodies a "right wing nut" or a "dirty liberal" the minute they make a decision you're at odds with. How do these labels aid the debate? In fact don't they stifle debate and make for the same mudslinging atmosphere we deride on shows like Crossfire and Hannity and Colmes? Is it not folly to presume that because one has ideological leanings that their views completely coincide with the most extreme of their ilk? Is it possible for a conservative to be pro-bureacracy? A liberal, pro-states rights? Is it possible that liberal and conservative are often just labels applied to suit those you disagree with, and that people more often fit into political molds based on other social/economic/religious factors?

Fucking hell. I disagree with the decision and am appalled that the more left-leaning judges would lead the charge in ruling in favor of the city, but I'm not ready to start slinging around the "damn liberal" label simply because it applies to the group I'm disagreeing with.
 

olimario

Banned
Pigdog.
I want to become an Independent. Both parties seem horribly corrupt and I would hate to have to vote through them to vote for my ideals.
 

ronito

Member
The thing is that this is a thing that every single liberal I know would vote against. If you brought this up in a liberal meeting everyone would say "Those darn republicans!" But what the heck were they thinking????? Et tu Brute?
 
Drinky Crow said:
I'm about as left as you can get without descending into Noam Chomsky-esque paranoid buffoonery, schweinhund.

Not to be an asshole, but don't you work for that juggernaut of monopoloy capitalism, Microsoft? From your posts and bits you've contributed in tech threads, I've gathered you're smart as hell. Why don't you put that to use working for an aid group, union or other type of non-profit?
 

gblues

Banned
Why are you guys surprised that the liberal side of the supreme court is behind this decision? The advocacy of bigger government intervention (i.e. the right to take your land to build streets, highways, railways, and apparently Wal-Marts now) has been a Democrat foundation stone for decades. This was a fight of pro-big government vs. pro-free market, and the free marketeers lost.

BTW, to the fellow who couldn't believe people could lose their homes to the government: try not paying your property tax and see how long you keep your home.

Nathan
 

jgkspsx

Member
AssMan said:
Don't know, but most likely they were conservatives.
The right wing (Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas) are hardliners about personal property rights, the left wing (Breyer, Stevens, and Ginsburg) about personal political freedoms. The moderates (O'Connor, Souter, Kennedy) have their own tendencies on each.

This is the worst ruling in a while. I'm going to be ill.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Commercial operations should NEVER, EVER have access to the eminent domain policy. EVER.

Commerical operations only have access to eminent domain rules if they control the political process. You want to prevent that? Reduce the power of influence peddling and support clean election laws. I don't think it's the place of the SCOTUS to judge that there is too much influence over the eminent domain process in a specific case, but to make sure that responsible government is given the tools to enhance the public good.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy that would applaud in glee if the government claimed "eminent domain" over McMansion/suburb property for environmental goals. People have enough places to live already.
 

ronito

Member
Hey guys, there might be an upside to this though. See if corporations are able to get lands taken from emminet domain, and corporations are essentially considered and treated as citizens then that might mean I could take over lands with emminet domain! Hooray!!! I've already picked out a few choice blocks where to build "Ronito Land" . See? Look on the bright side. Fortune abounds. Right guys??...right guys?...always look at the bright side of life....guys???

<weeps bitterly for his dead, dead country>
 

AssMan

Banned
Why are you guys surprised that the liberal side of the supreme court is behind this decision?


Socialists.


The liberals, I knew it was them! Even when it was the conservatives I knew it was them! </moe>

It was an honest mistake. Jesus Christ. Conservatives outweigh the liberals in the Supreme Court, right? That was what popped up in my head, even thought I knew it was the socialists that won. :D
 

LakeEarth

Member
AssMan said:
It was an honest mistake. Jesus Christ. Conservatives outweigh the liberals in the Supreme Court, right? That was what popped up in my head, even thought I knew it was the socialists that won. :D
Wasn't an attack. I saw an opportunity to quote simpsons and I took it.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Phoenix said:
On the way out, corrupt the land so that it is unsuitable for settlement....
deso.jpg
 

Brannon

Member
I think I lean quite a bit on the liberal side, and I can't fucking believe that liberals actually voted FOR this. FUCK.

Man I hope they do this on a case by case basis; for example, the rundown buildings near Turner Field on Georgia Avenue in Atlanta NEED to have eminent domain invoked on them, and if anyone has ever saw them, they would not disagree.

But I predict more of an abuse of power scenario in the coming years.

...

See, I almost said "fucking Bush", but, but.... but.... FUCK.
 

FightyF

Banned
Drinky Crow said:
I'm about as left as you can get without descending into Noam Chomsky-esque paranoid buffoonery, schweinhund.

I always considered Chomsky as a non-partisan humanist. Rather than a Liberal. It doesn't matter who's in power, he's always spoke his mind. I'm sure he'd disagree with this Supreme Court ruling, for example.

I see where this can be useful in some situations...but it sets a horrible precedent.

Hey, maybe I can start my own phony corp and steal these the houses of the Judges that voted for this! The irony would be delicious.
 
Ned Flanders said:

Third-parties are not the same as independent. More choices are better than fewer choices, but many people (including myself) have serious problems with the very idea of a political party, and those problems are not alleviated by joining a smaller fringe party.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Anyone who didn't immeadiately know that conservatives would be against this judgement and more liberal judges for it need to take a fucking remedial civics class. This is day 1 stuff. I'm honestly stunned that the majority of GAF understands so little about the most basic beliefs of the right and left.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
GDJustin said:
Anyone who didn't immeadiately know that conservatives would be against this judgement and more liberal judges for it need to take a fucking remedial civics class. This is day 1 stuff. I'm honestly stunned that the majority of GAF understands so little about the most basic beliefs of the right and left.
I think part of it is the extremity of the decision, and the right's greater tendancy towards corporate dick sucking.
 
www.scotusblog.com If you want to know how they vote on a given decision.

Souter,Stevens,Ginsburg,and Breyer usually all vote the same

Kennedy and O'Connor are usually swing votes, but the four more liberal justices side together more often than all 5 of the others do.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
GDJustin said:
Anyone who didn't immeadiately know that conservatives would be against this judgement and more liberal judges for it need to take a fucking remedial civics class. This is day 1 stuff. I'm honestly stunned that the majority of GAF understands so little about the most basic beliefs of the right and left.

The right left "small government" behind in 2000.
 

Yossarian

Member
xsarien said:
The right left "small government" behind in 2000.
1980.

Regardless, the current "right" isn't very conservative in many respects. I find it hard to associate the truly conservative members of the Supreme Court with the Republican party (excepting Thomas - he's a republican tool).
 
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