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[Burger]

BitTorrent has quickly become one of the most popular P2P protocols on the Internet. In terms of bandwidth consumption, it is quite easily the most popular network, generating more Internet traffic than FastTrack or eDonkey2000. While BitTorrent is certainly efficient in distributing large files across the Internet, it is plagued by one vulnerability - its reliance on centralization.

The BitTorrent tracker, similar to a central server, has been the great weakness of any P2P network. Although BitTorrent trackers do not operate identically to indexing servers, they still act like traffic cops - directing traffic to their intended destination. SuprNova.org, while not a tracker per se, still operates as a impromptu tracker as it points traffic to the actual tracker. Regardless, the bandwidth consumption remains enormous. This equates to prolonged searches, lengthy load times and other typical slow downs associated with the World Wide Web.

One of the great resolutions to depending on centralized servers has been decentralization. Initiated by NullSoft's Gnutella, decentralized P2P networks have revolutionized file-sharing by making them impervious to "pulling the plug" as was Napster's and Scour's fate. This has long been a fear of many BitTorrent fans - pull the Tracker plug and there goes a portion of the network. However, it appears that SuprNova.org has found a solution to this problem. Meet Exeem.

Exeem is a new file-sharing application being developed by the folks at SuprNova.org. Exeem is a decentralized BitTorrent network that basically makes everyone a Tracker. Individuals will share Torrents, and seed shared files to the network. At this time, details and the full potential of this project are being kept very quiet. However it appears this P2P application will completely replace SuprNova.org; no more web mirrors, no more bottle necks and no more slow downs.

Exeem will marry the best features of a decentralized network, the easy searchability of an indexing server and the swarming powers of the BitTorrent network into one program. Currently, the network is in beta testing and already has 5,000 users (the beta testing is closed.) Once this program goes public, its potential is enormous.

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8240

This will be huge.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Man, this is nuts. I just like it for backing up my music. Ill buy my games thanks. Not an ethical issue, just like legal hard copies. Not that my backups of music arent legal.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

fuck being in the anti-piracy business.

 

[KarishBHR]

sum this up for me please

 

[Burger]

sum this up for me please

It's like napster, except impossible to shut down.

 

[G4life98]

sell your ip its all ovah!

riaa and mpaa am crying

 

[KarishBHR]

It's like napster, except impossible to shut down.

I would jizz!

 

[Sriram]

Is this absolutely impossible to shut down though? Surely there must be some kind of central database that lists all the users/trackers.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Its like Skynet, you cant stop it.

 

[Hitokage]

This will only make it hard to shut down a torrent site, not bust people using it.

 

[MrAngryFace]

but we dont own the whole file. Its not something to bust us for until we have all of it, and who's to say we do and when. Furthermore can you bust everyone?

Not to say I advocate full blown piracy just cause there's chances of making it tougher to crack down on, but I DO recognize the fat rich people who profit more off cd sales than the actual artists. And while I do buy a lot of cds (over 100 last count) I do find other ways to get quality music before purchase.

 

[Miguel]

"ALL RIGHT!"

 

[Fresh Prince]

I would donate ...or maybe not ....

 

[duderon]

Let me see if i'm getting this. In order to shut this down you would have to stop every single user from sharing their files?

 

[pestul]

From the sound of it.. there won't even be a torrent site to shutdown. I wonder if it will mask individual ips somehow.. that would be a huge blow to anti-piracy. It would become essentially unstoppable. :X

 

[Azih]

hrm, no word on if this will be free. Should be though because trying to profit off of this would make you a huge target for law enforcement. Just releasing it open source means that you don't make any money but you are immune to legal repurcussions and get to sit on your ass and laught at the RIAA/MIAA etc. run about like crazy try to stop it... plus you can get a pretty sweet job for being a hella good computer scientist/programmer.

Edit: I don't think it'll mask Ips, seeders/leechers need to be able to find each other somehow and IP is it. You won't be able to shut down piracy but you'll still be able to identify IPs that are pirating and go after them.

 

[Lhadatt]

Is this absolutely impossible to shut down though? Surely there must be some kind of central database that lists all the users/trackers.

Nope. If there were, then it wouldn't be decentralized, now would it?

Wow. This will be insane if they can get it to work right. The Copyright Cops will still be able to find the IP addresses of people trading files, but ways to get around that will appear soon enough.

 

[Fresh Prince]

And with that Intellectual Property Rights finally lay dead.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I don't think I quite understand this yet. The thing I find convenient about BitTorrent is that when you want something, you know what tracker to connect to, and it's easy to know if others are there with the file. Whereas with other P2P programs you might start a download, and who knows when you'll gain or lose a connection to someone who happens to have the exact same thing. Change BitTorrent so "everyone is a tracker", and what differentiates it?

 

[NotMSRP]

MPAA/RIAA: Sell your stocks! It's all over!

 

[Burger]

I don't think I quite understand this yet. The thing I find convenient about BitTorrent is that when you want something, you know what tracker to connect to, and it's easy to know if others are there with the file. Whereas with other P2P programs you might start a download, and who knows when you'll gain or lose a connection to someone who happens to have the exact same thing. Change BitTorrent so "everyone is a tracker", and what differentiates it?

Imagine not having to goto a website, which may or may not be there to point you to a torrent file.

You would load the client, search for "Lost 1x10" and you would be set. Hashing of files would still exist, so for a release there may be 5 odd re-releases with different hashes. You would only be able to upload/download from users that have the files with a matching hash.

DC++ and other similar networks are becoming redundant, because you can only download from users that have open slots. Heck, DC++ can only download from one person at a time per file.

 

[Sriram]

Worst thing is, I only just missed the beta testing place. There must of been so many people trying to sign up cause I signed up to the forum with over 1000 slots available and the activation took forever instead of the usual 10 mins max

One quick question: does anyone know if this is a full fledged torrent client or just a portal for finding torrent files?

 

[jenov4]

Is this absolutely impossible to shut down though? Surely there must be some kind of central database that lists all the users/trackers.

I guess it's like shutting down the internet. Not gunna happen!

 

[duderon]

Imagine not having to goto a website, which may or may not be there to point you to a torrent file.

You would load the client, search for "Lost 1x10" and you would be set. Hashing of files would still exist, so for a release there may be 5 odd re-releases with different hashes. You would only be able to upload/download from users that have the files with a matching hash.

DC++ and other similar networks are becoming redundant, because you can only download from users that have open slots. Heck, DC++ can only download from one person at a time per file.

How is the Exeem client protected from getting shut down?

 

[Sriram]

deadlifter: I guess they could stop suprnova from distributing the app but to stop the network theyd have to shut down every single user, just like trying to stop the internet. At least, thats my understanding of it.

Holy shit, this might be the greatest thing ever, all thanks to our favourite exploding star.

 

[belgurdo]

Thank God I already stole all the DC games I wanted before the crackdowns begin

 

[Burger]

How is the Exeem client protected from getting shut down?

Who are you going to shutdown ? If the software is released in the dark there won't be anybody to prosecute. If the software is opensource there is nobody to prosecute.

If 3 million people are running Exeem (which is decentralised, no 'server' so to speak) it becomes 'immune' to law enforcement.

The absolute WORST record companies and the like could do is try and flood fakes. There are solutions to this problem. Namely you won't see several hundred people seeding a fake release.

 

[Sriram]

God, I hope that doesnt happen, I hated the later days of kazaa when I would download 10 minutes of static unknowingly.

 

[duderon]

Who are you going to shutdown ? If the software is released in the dark there won't be anybody to prosecute. If the software is opensource there is nobody to prosecute.

If 3 million people are running Exeem (which is decentralised, no 'server' so to speak) it becomes 'immune' to law enforcement.

The absolute WORST record companies and the like could do is try and flood fakes. There are solutions to this problem. Namely you won't see several hundred people seeding a fake release.

I see, so once the client is out it doesn't have to be supported or anything. This would be a dream come true for pr0n

 

[joaomgcd]

I still don't understand how these new torrents would know what IP's are seeding which files. If there is no server, how can a client search anything? Surely you can't just scan random IPs to see if they are seeding anything, right?

 

[Burger]

I still don't understand how these new torrents would know what IP's are seeding which files. If there is no server, how can a client search anything? Surely you can't just scan random IPs to see if they are seeding anything, right?

Yeah, I'm not too sure how that works either.

 

[Phoenix]

Let me see if i'm getting this. In order to shut this down you would have to stop every single user from sharing their files?

LOL, no - just block the port that it talks on. I can't believe people still don't realize that any file sharing network is a port block away from becoming completely useless. ALL P2P network clients communicate with each other because there is a well known protocol and a well known port (or set of ports) that they share information on. Block those and you have the worlds most expensive Hello World.

I can tell you how this application is going to screw us all. First ISPs and companies will start blocking the ports. Then suprnova.org and similar will start using 'well known' ports for other applications (like port 80 and similar). The the ISPs and such will start cracking down on servers running on their network (something that IS against most TOS, but that they don't really bitch about because its at nuisance level).

 

[Burger]

I can't believe people still don't realize that any file sharing network is a port block away from becoming completely useless.

I can't believe how people still think America = The World.

Suprnova is european from memory. Even if the supreme courts of America decide that ISP's have to block all ports that P2P clients use, the rest of us can keep on trucking.

Face it, it's such an unlikley scenario it doesn't bear thinking about. Not to mention that the software could simply migrate to a new set of ports within days.

 

[Sriram]

Im not sure about all bt clients, but on ABC at least, you can manually set the ports that it uses to whatever you want. The isps cant exactly block every port can they? Isps have been wise to bt for ages but dont often block ports to stop it.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I can't believe how people still think America = The World.

Suprnova is european from memory. Even if the supreme courts of America decide that ISP's have to block all ports that P2P clients use, the rest of us can keep on trucking.

Face it, it's such an unlikley scenario it doesn't bear thinking about. Not to mention that the software could simply migrate to a new set of ports within days.

The whole reason suprnova still exists is because its Czech I believe.

 

[ShadowRed]

LOL, no - just block the port that it talks on. I can't believe people still don't realize that any file sharing network is a port block away from becoming completely useless. ALL P2P network clients communicate with each other because there is a well known protocol and a well known port (or set of ports) that they share information on. Block those and you have the worlds most expensive Hello World.

I can tell you how this application is going to screw us all. First ISPs and companies will start blocking the ports. Then suprnova.org and similar will start using 'well known' ports for other applications (like port 80 and similar). The the ISPs and such will start cracking down on servers running on their network (something that IS against most TOS, but that they don't really bitch about because its at nuisance level).

Dude what's stopping people from changing the port that the torrents come in on? What if you change it to a port that say windows update uses or some other vital net componet uses. If the ISPs block that then people are going to be pretty pissed that they can't update their windows, or get their virus protection from Norton or whatever legitamate program they are useing.


Also this new network sounds a lot like Direct Connect. You have a share folder with file in it that is braodcast to other people on the network. You either click on their name to view their files or you can search for a specific file and those people with that file will show up. You click on the file and DL directly from them. No central computer to pass through. If it is a newer version of DC then that means there will be the same problem, that being people spoofing files or mislabeling them. Assuming it keeps the DL to UL ratio thing going from bit torrent then if you are not sharing anything then you will get slower DLs. People will misslabel dummie files so that can get their max DL. Yeah I'm sure after a while people will catch on and word of mouth will spread about a certain file on a certain sharer, but there is nothing stopping that nafarious sharer from changing his name and doing again.

 

[Mugen]

Lol, reading Phoenix's post, my prophecy of having "piracy" as being "almost at it's peak and will start to go downhill right after that" Is STILL right on track!

 

[Burger]

Also this new network sounds a lot like Direct Connect. You have a share folder with file in it that is braodcast to other people on the network. You either click on their name to view their files or you can search for a specific file and those people with that file will show up. You click on the file and DL directly from them. No central computer to pass through. If it is a newer version of DC then that means there will be the same problem, that being people spoofing files or mislabeling them. Assuming it keeps the DL to UL ratio thing going from bit torrent then if you are not sharing anything then you will get slower DLs. People will misslabel dummie files so that can get their max DL. Yeah I'm sure after a while people will catch on and word of mouth will spread about a certain file on a certain sharer, but there is nothing stopping that nafarious sharer from changing his name and doing again.

Thats the brilliance of Hashing. Say Lost 1x10 comes on the new Bit Torrent network. It has a hash (for example) of AE9DL783JCA. Lets say after several hours there are 200+ seeds. The client could show this as a 'popular' torrent, maybe with a green light or something. This would give you a fairly good indication that it's trusted as not being fake (otherwise there wouldn't be 200+ seeds right?).

Once you have it downloaded, if you change one byte in any of the files that the torrent relates too, the hash changes. Your client would then think that it is unique, and anybody searching you would see 1 seed (maybe red light?) and not bother.

Also remember Bit Torrent is not for downloading Linkin Parks new single. Its for the rapid transfer and distribution of large files. Kazaa was ok for the odd mp3, but a bit shit if you wanted "All Metalica Albums Ever.zip"

 

[Pimpwerx]

Excellent. BT is awesome, but Suprnova is gonna go down eventually. Not like you even need that, but the prospect of making it decentralized is intriguing. PEACE.

 

[Phoenix]

I can't believe how people still think America = The World.

That's cool. I could care less what the rest of you guys do. I'm currently concerned with what;s going on within my own borders.

Suprnova is european from memory. Even if the supreme courts of America decide that ISP's have to block all ports that P2P clients use, the rest of us can keep on trucking.

Face it, it's such an unlikley scenario it doesn't bear thinking about. Not to mention that the software could simply migrate to a new set of ports within days.

False. The torrent protocol only operates on a set range of ports. To move that would be akin to telling everyone to start browsing on port 81.

 

[Phoenix]

Dude what's stopping people from changing the port that the torrents come in on? What if you change it to a port that say windows update uses or some other vital net componet uses. If the ISPs block that then people are going to be pretty pissed that they can't update their windows, or get their virus protection from Norton or whatever legitamate program they are useing.

Windows update works by hitting a specific DNS lookup (which is how DDoS attacks have taken it down). Windows update doesn't broadcast over specific ports. If you know about firewalls and corporate blocking strategies, they can quite easily put a DENY in the list for all but the Microsoft IP range and subnet. There are already universities, corporations and similar blocking BT - and you can change the ports all you want, you aint getting through the firewall. IT Administrator 101, only open the ports that need to be opened. IT Administrator 102, block IP blocks and subnet ranges for those well known services that are sending you undesirable traffic.

The only thing keeping the network alive is that no ISP has taken an active step to block it out. Nothing the Suprnova crowd is doing is going to change that. The stuff they are doing is to prevent a DDoS from MPAA and RIAA (which has happened several times already).

 

[Phoenix]

Also remember Bit Torrent is not for downloading Linkin Parks new single. Its for the rapid transfer and distribution of large files. Kazaa was ok for the odd mp3, but a bit shit if you wanted "All Metalica Albums Ever.zip"

False. Bit Torrent is for distributing files quickly and benefits files that are popular as there would be more seeders. If people want Linkin Parks new single, there will be more people seeding or downloading the file making it faster to download as you are getting it from multiple sources as opposed to one seeder.