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[More Fun To Compute]

I only bought the original version after the expansions came out and word of mouth started spreading about how good they made it. Makes me a bit hesitant to buy their games on day one.

 

[Twinduct]

So gonna wait for the proper release then. Btw Cacetti, you mentioned Elemental. I held off because of all the bugs and flawed design (so called?). Anyway did they ever fix it up? I mean is it worth anything yet?

 

[Ducarmel]

sigh

This was going to be my whole weekend before I start work again.

 

[Clevinger]

Is there any ETA on when they upload the right version, or is this just a bullshit excuse while they work on a patch for their buggy game?

 

[Carcetti]

I thought they uploaded the version already, but it's not much better.

After 2 hours of testing, I haven't been able to have even 1 space combat since the ships move so slowly across the maps that I run out of time before they meet each other. The options don't work and the manual doesn't tell anything so I have no idea how to use accelerated time. LOL.

About Elemental: no idea. I never went back to it after how it sucked at the start. It's been sitting on my impulse account forever but the game's completely soured for me.

I'm just afraid same thing will happen with SoTS2.

The tragedy is that the first SoTS is a superb game after all the patches, one of my favorite 4X games ever. Same thing might happen here, but before that the word of mouth will slaughter the sales.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

there's a petition for a non-steam version of the game. sign this so I can buy the game http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...equest-Sign-Here-If-You-Want-It-1-post-person

lol

 

[KPJZKC]

Is there any ETA on when they upload the right version, or is this just a bullshit excuse while they work on a patch for their buggy game?

A Paradox dev on their forums (I know Paradox are just the publishers, but presumably they have more insight into it than we do) confirmed that this IS indeed the "Release Version" they were planning to release.

I've never felt as conned about a game as I do now - I do feel a little for Paradox though, they seem to be getting hammered on the forums, and they're claiming that it was Kerberos who pushed for this release date.

 

[Unicorn]

Fukken why? Why would you rush your own game? 4x games are the ones that deserve long dev cycles!

 

[PistolPete]

I'm gonna keep an eye on this. I've been itching for a space game.

Since this thread is probably full of fans of the genre, can someone provide a list of games worth playing? Rts, Sims, 4x.. I'm open to anything.

 

[Winterblink]

Game won't even launch for me. I start it up, configure it for my resolution, uncheck Windowed mode.

Game launches in windowed mode anyway, crashes after the Gamespy logo comes up. Faaaaaaaaaantastic.

 

[Carcetti]

I'm gonna keep an eye on this. I've been itching for a space game.

Since this thread is probably full of fans of the genre, can someone provide a list of games worth playing? Rts, Sims, 4x.. I'm open to anything.

Old or new or anything?

 

[Ponti]

Bah was looking forward to this but hearing how messy the launch has been I think I'm going to hold off for a bit. Back to Sins I guess

 

[KPJZKC]

I'm gonna keep an eye on this. I've been itching for a space game.

Since this thread is probably full of fans of the genre, can someone provide a list of games worth playing? Rts, Sims, 4x.. I'm open to anything.

So hard to remember them all...

Sword of the Stars I (with the expansions) is great, and you can pick it all up for about 5$ at the moment I think...that's turn based with real time combat.
Sins of a Solar Empire is a pretty good rts, but I found myself getting bored with it pretty quickly.

And for a sim I HAVE to suggest X3 Terran Conflict (especially with user scripts). Can be pretty processor heavy though. And a ridiculous learning curve, but if you like space sims it's incredibly rewarding when you get the hang of it.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

looks like paradox are offering refunds. seems like a good idea if you can't even get the game to run, like some people are experiencing. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?567108-Email-support-paradoxplaza.com-for-refund

seems like a good buy in some 6 months

 

[epmode]

I was looking forward to this one. I'm very happy I held off on the preorder though!

In related news, offering pre-order exclusive items for a PC release is borderline criminal.

 

[Acosta]

So gonna wait for the proper release then. Btw Cacetti, you mentioned Elemental. I held off because of all the bugs and flawed design (so called?). Anyway did they ever fix it up? I mean is it worth anything yet?

Yes, it´s has improved a lot, but if you have waited so far, wait for the "expansion" (relaunch), Fallen Enchantress.

Sad about the SotS messy launch, it's too bad most complex games nowadays need months of patch and even community patches to reach their potential.

 

[Carcetti]

Holy moly, just 'played' more SotS 2 and it's in more dire shape than I believed and full of boneheaded design decisions. The worst one yet: there's no real fast autoresolve for battles anymore, for every fight the computer has between itself you have to run a 'simulation' that seems to last about ... dunno, 15 seconds. In my 30 turn try with Suulka against Humans the idiot humans tried to attack a morrigi wreck random event EVERY TURN and failed, so I had to watch this progress bar run agonizingly every time I pressed end turn before my own stuff.

This was in a small map game 2vs2. I don't even dare to think what happens when there's like 6 computer players fighting each other. Let's say there's 10 fights on computer planets on a turn.. that's 10x15 seconds seconds that you're gonna have to look at a black screen with a progress bar.

 

[Popstar]

.

 

[Alexios]

All are 4x. But Galactic Civilizations II has a story too.

 

[ruuk]

looks like paradox are offering refunds. seems like a good idea if you can't even get the game to run, like some people are experiencing. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?567108-Email-support-paradoxplaza.com-for-refund

seems like a good buy in some 6 months

I took them up on this offer earlier and requested a refund in full. I will be more than happy to buy the game once it has been fixed, but in the mean time, and in case the game never reaches a true release state, I'll have my money back. No harm no foul.

 

[Gotchaye]

I had high hopes for this, but I've been following along on their forums and it's looking like this is months away from being worth purchasing.

I did have a lot of fun with Sins, but it always felt like more of an RTS to me, with all of the micro that entails. I tried Star Ruler, and I really like a lot of the things they've done with it, but the combination of F=ma physics and unit AI which has never heard of Isaac Newton makes it almost unplayable for me - ships are constantly missing easy intercepts or moving into range of planetary batteries when they should be able to bombard in safety. The most obvious failure case is that a ship with 2x the thrust of another ship will simply never catch it if given an attack order while the slower ship is burning directly away. It would be a hugely better game if they just gave ships much higher accelerations and a max speed. (Sorry for that rant; I really, really wanted to like that game)

It's back to waiting for me, I think.

 

[dionysus]

I took them up on this offer earlier and requested a refund in full. I will be more than happy to buy the game once it has been fixed, but in the mean time, and in case the game never reaches a true release state, I'll have my money back. No harm no foul.

I am getting a refund too. Game is nowhere near ready for release.

All I wanted was SotS 1 with more detailed strategy elements and prettier graphics. I can't even tell what this is because the game opens in windowed mode even when I tell it not too then crashes.

 

[ruuk]

If you're curious enough to venture past the main menu, hit ALT-Enter to go into full screen mode, maybe that will help prevent a crash.

 

[Dennis]

bork bork

So game is completely broken? Good lord.

 

[Winterblink]

If you're curious enough to venture past the main menu, hit ALT-Enter to go into full screen mode, maybe that will help prevent a crash.

Can't even get past the Gamespy logo at startup. CTD's.

 

[Popstar]

.

 

[ruuk]

Can't even get past the Gamespy logo at startup. CTD's.

The game required DX10, I don't know your system specs, but I thought I'd mention it. Even if you get it working though, there's really nothing substantial to do in the game yet.

 

[ruuk]

Thanks.

If you get GalcCiv2 you must get it with all its expansions (there's a complete pack on Impulse around somewhere). The base game is a bit thin without them.

 

[epmode]

Now this is interesting: A developer at Kerberos has been incredibly frank about the release of SOTS2. http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

On the other hand, in game development as in life, sometimes there are times when the baby just has to come out or die. Both my children and I are alive today because when it came to a hard decision, the doctor was willing to use a knife to insure our survival. The release of this game was much the same. It was a thing that had to happen, and because of it the game and the team now have a chance to live that they would not otherwise have had.

The team will heal, given enough rest, nourishment and support. The game has taken its first breath, and it will live. And exhausted and battered as I am, I have faith that it WILL be loved, and it WILL be supported, not only by me and my team but by our community and our publisher.

So, while I am extremely tired and more than a little bruised and bloody, while I am extremely sorry that this did not go smoothly, I am also glad that the first day of release is over. Better days will come. They always do, when teams and games are given proper support.

Sounds like one hell of a development cycle. I hope she's right about fixing up the game since I'm actually very interested in it.

 

[ruuk]

That baby analogy is fit for Halloween.

 

[Alexios]

So, more shitty crunch time conditions or what? And are they really on the verge of dying? I thought they'd be doing well after the first game and expansion did pretty well (I thought?). Is the publisher screwing them over or? Maybe they should try to go indie and full DD only with smaller projects until they can self fund a larger one again... Or rather work on a larger project at a slower pace while keeping themselves alive with smaller stuff they switch different people's focus on every so often... Whatever...

 

[dionysus]

Now this is interesting: A developer at Kerberos has been incredibly frank about the release of SOTS2. http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

Sounds like one hell of a development cycle. I hope she's right about fixing up the game since I'm actually very interested in it.

Sounds like they got to ambitious for the amount of funding they had from paradox. One of the first principles of project management is don't bite off more than you can chew.

 

[Alex Connolly]

Ah fellows. Well...I'm not asking for a refund, but sheesh...talk about dashing a man's excitement on the rocks of semi-overreach and a twist of deception.

This seems like the best time to ask what 4X space empire games people remember, adore, admire etc. for a possible thread...

The ones I enjoyed/played prior were Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain, MoO2, Star Wars Rebellion, Imperium Galactica 1 & 2, Space Empires series, Star Ruler, Distant Worlds, GalCiv, Lost Empires: Immortals...

...and the few other oddballs like Sins and Haegemonia.

Care to share any thoughts on the genre or particular games whilst we wipe away tears of anger and sadness? I've gone back to Star Ruler and might indulge in a bit of Space Empires V until SotS2 gets its act together.

 

[CrazedProfessional]

when I launch the game the main menu text is all buggy and I cannot click on anything.

 

[Alex Connolly]

when I launch the game the main menu text is all buggy and I cannot click on anything.

You're probably ahead of a lot of people in the fact you're actually at a menu screen. Sadly.

 

[Alex Connolly]

Fellows, if you're having issues with the Steam version, find the SotS2 folder within the SteamApps folder, go into the bin folder and see if launching the x64 version helps any. Just did that - doesn't require steam - and despite the obvious polish issues, has drastically improved loading and menu issues.

You'll have to alt+enter into full-screen mode, regardless of whether it's toggled in the launcher options.

See how it goes.

 

[Isomac]

At least the game has very fast loading times. I am also having fun trying different weapons and options. I am a bit confused with these station. All these modules and then upgrading the station itself is a mystery to me.

I don't completely understand the battle screen. Seems to take too much time to actually reach enemies to do some fighting. Although there was some button to make ships go a bit faster.

All this detail on the ships is just great: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/612715011099218951/85D2DC3E129844E5BD459F91E41B538048A4754B/

Let's hope the next weeks patch fixes a lot of the problems.

 

[Carcetti]

It's depressing that the game is in a state where people are asking refunds. I'm not doing that, and it's going to be a gesture. I loved SotS and I'm giving Kerberos time and a chance to fix their errors. Guess it's a gamble on my part then.

 

[CrazedProfessional]

Fellows, if you're having issues with the Steam version, find the SotS2 folder within the SteamApps folder, go into the bin folder and see if launching the x64 version helps any. Just did that - doesn't require steam - and despite the obvious polish issues, has drastically improved loading and menu issues.

You'll have to alt+enter into full-screen mode, regardless of whether it's toggled in the launcher options.

See how it goes.

So the main menu is fine but if I try to start a game I get nothing but a white screen. What a sad state to release a game.

 

[dionysus]

It's depressing that the game is in a state where people are asking refunds. I'm not doing that, and it's going to be a gesture. I loved SotS and I'm giving Kerberos time and a chance to fix their errors. Guess it's a gamble on my part then.

Well we can always rebuy it when it is fixed and probably after a few price drops.

 

[Alex Connolly]

From Martin "Mecron" Cirulis:

Hey folks! Helluva weekend eh?

Welcome to the perfect storm of cockup made up of 40% Murphy's Law, 30% Chaos, 20% Overambition and 10% wishful thinking. And you have our deepest regrets for what it is worth as none of this was part of the plan.

I am tempted to go into full blown explanations but a) that starts to smack of making excuses and b) in reality I think the biggest things on people's minds right now judging from your posts is "Who's responsible?!!" and "What's going to be done?!!" And even when its time for explanations I am sure you would all rather hear about it in the context of "How this won't happen again".

That latter question is an easy one and best gotten out of the way quickly. "Who is responsible?"...I am. Half my job at Kerberos is to be the one that makes the hard call. What gets prioritized. What gets pulled. What gets released. What get accepted. And in many ways, what gets said. When push comes to shove, I am the one who makes the deal with the devil. When something is supposed to be watched, its me who has to know the answer. When the switch got thrown on the wrong build, costing many of you an extra big download and letting loose an extra buggy code base, I was in traffic instead of giving the yay or nay myself. That should not have been...hell I should have insisted nothing moved until the right code had been there and confirmed multiple times. Instead I blew it and bad things happened.

So lets set this straight here. When you are dealing with SotS2 this weekend and wondering quite rightly "Who is to blame for this?!!" The answer is me. NOT Paradox...NOT Steam and certainly NOT my team. All of those forces have been exemplary in helping deal with a bad situation. When it comes to who should be at the end of anyone's fingerpoint, it's just plain ol' me.


Ok...so now onto the real important thing...The Future of SotS2 and what you can count on.


First of all the bad news...Thanks to various factors we are now sitting on top of a pile of blown apart code and unstable features. The first thing you can expect though is stability. There will be an update tomorrow which will set right much of the chaos created friday in terms of crashing and keeping you from playing that game. What it WON'T do is magically add back in every piece of functionality. Gods know I wish that I had that magic wand but the reality is that path leads to more chaos and more broken gameplay sessions. Remember that part where I mentioned making the hard calls? This is another one of those. As much as the team wants to throw themselves at this like crazy people, I am not going to ok that. Instead we will go about this in a relatively sane and orderly fashion with regular updates that make sure everything that goes back in is as stable as possible before you see it. Oh I am sure some stuff will leak through, but at least that will be dealt with quickly and cleanly. Sorry to just put the hard facts to you straight without flowers but I think we are somewhat past the flowers make it all better stage of this relationship

What this means to you...

This plan means that you folks can expect at least 2 or 3 updates a week over the next month or so that will gradually make this game into what it should have been when the switch was pulled on friday. Soon after that you can expect personel in black suits to arrive at your house to flash a red light in your eyes. After that you will find yourself happy and enjoying the best release day ever and none of this will ever have happened.
Ok fine...I am a lil shakey on the last half of the plan but what I can tell you is that by the end of this period you WILL have more additional content than you would have under more ideal circumstances. Every update will go out with some thank you for your patience...some badges, extra maps, new nose art, more background entries. Basically whatever can be done alongside the priority path will be put in as well. The people out there who know Kerberos know that we support our games not just for weeks or months but for years. For all of you people new to us, please let me assure you that despite how your purchase may look at the moment, you can look forward to years of support. I would ask that you consider not giving up on us because it will literally take the end of the world for Kerberos and Paradox to give up on SotS2.


What I would like to ask of you...


Oh I know that is hardly what you expected to hear right now, but before your temperature rises, please hear me out becuase this portion is in reaction to ALL the posts I have read which seem to subdivide into certain clear groups.


If you are a Kerberos and/or a SotS fan then please just enjoy the game as you can over the next few weeks. I know you want to help as much as possible but to be honest you should NOT be rewarded for your support with more work. Your feedback is appreciated but in no means are you expected to act as testers or hunt bugs. Literally your patience and continued support is more than enough.

If you truely feel like you have been dumped into an unannounced beta test on this game, then please, I ask you to put the game away and not look at it till someone fires off the "all done" flag. I am not going to tell you that you should not feel this way. What I am going to say is that if you feel this way then you should not feel victimized any more than if you had made a pre-order and then been informed of a delay. I know this does not make it all right but at least it should make it clear that no one wants to use you as a beta tester nor was that ever the intent.

And finally, if you are in the camp that still feels robbed by the time you have reached this point of my post I can only offer what I can. We are fixing it and we need folks to either cheer, step aside or get out of the way cause vitriol is not going to help right now. If you demand a refund then I completely understand and you can be assured, the cost of that will make it directly to us. We will feel your "voting with your dollars", you can be sure about that and we accept that as fair play. On the other hand, if a free copy of the orginal SotS will help tide you over while we get this game shined from turnip to jewel, then please write to "contact@kerberos-productions.com" and we will set you up. If nothing else, if you are not familiar with how we support our products, you can play it and then ask the old-timers how much it changed over the years and that may reassure you.



So if you are still with me after this long post...let me summarize.

a) cockup
b) my fault
c) will be Completely fixed
d) fun stuff in many updates
e) Understanding of your position
f) Apology again and underserved request for faith and patience from people who don't know us.


That's about it folks. I hope this helps in some way or another. If enough people care, I will try and post a "Ways I can think of to prevent this from happening ever again". But otherwise its sunday and I got a whole lot of work to get done for tomorrow's update.

Once again, Regrets and our deepest thanks for whatever patience each one of you can offer.
--Martin Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions

Fair enough. Should have been much more open with the fans prior to release. Another delay certainly wouldn't have harmed the project as much what dropped on Friday.

Bring on the Mea Maxima Culpa...I don't need a fat reward for sticking around, but a few goodies wouldn't go astray.

 

[Winterblink]

The game required DX10, I don't know your system specs, but I thought I'd mention it. Even if you get it working though, there's really nothing substantial to do in the game yet.

Radeon HD 5850 here, yeah not top of the line but more than equipped to run a DX10 game

 

[Alex Connolly]

Radeon HD 5850 here, yeah not top of the line but more than equipped to run a DX10 game

Outside of the issues, my little 5650 HD runs it fine.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Been doing a game with friends. I'm enjoying the game and man it is promising. Certain things get frustrating though. Really weird bugs that reaaaallly hinder gameplay a lot right now.

Think I'll take them up on that offer for a free copy of sots 1 though! That's more appealing than a refund.

Also happy that they're promising extra content as an "apology." I know it's probably mostly stuff that was coming anyway but I like the gesture.

 

[Alex Connolly]

I had an issue where my ships simply wouldn't fire on an enemy survey fleet, but then somehow, when the counter ran out, I'd won.

Now bouncing between Star Ruler and Space Empires V until a patch arrives. Gorgeous looking, despite not being able to configure anything now. Unless there's a config file?

 

[alstein]

So gonna wait for the proper release then. Btw Cacetti, you mentioned Elemental. I held off because of all the bugs and flawed design (so called?). Anyway did they ever fix it up? I mean is it worth anything yet?

Elemental 1.4 is a respectable game. It's not great, but it's decent. They're done with patching it though. That said, I wouldn't recommend buying it, and they're discontinuing offering it soon.

That said, the new Elemental is slated to go into beta late next month- and it's been entirely revamped. A lot of the Impulse sale money went into the game. They're also offering it free to the folks who bought the original in 2010.


This was a big reason I held off on this game- knowing I was going to get the next Elemental free and soon.

 

[HappyBivouac]

My goodness, they got back to me with my SoTS 1 key in a personal email not more than 32 minutes after I sent the request, and this at 11:45 on a Sunday!

That's a good feeling. I'm definitely sticking around for this.

 

[Carcetti]

I was expecting an apology of that sort and am not disappointed.

Let's hope they can fix this. The one thing I can see about this game already is that it has some of the sexiest spaceships I've seen in a game and definitely the best-looking ships in a strategy game.

 

[dionysus]

I think I will buy Star Ruler to tide me over. I should have remembered the unwritten rule about strategy games, never buy them day 1. Even the big budget games normally suck on release, see Civ V and Empire:TW.

 

[Alex Connolly]

I think I will buy Star Ruler to tide me over. I should have remembered the unwritten rule about strategy games, never buy them day 1. Even the big budget games normally suck on release, see Civ V and Empire:TW.

4X games seem to always come out busted these days! It's a rite of passage. Lost Empires: Immortals required fan patches by the end of it, as the devs disappeared off the face of the earth.