• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Syria has fallen

Status
Not open for further replies.

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Have been following this incredible resurgence the last few days of the Syrian civil war and now Assad has fled the building country, tail between his legs to his fellow evil cunt Putin... A pity as he deserved getting murdered in the streets by the people he oppressed.

Now the various rebel factions need to honour their committment to a peaceful transition, wether or not that happens the West is watching, 1 of the groups is an Islamist offshoot from Al Qaeda so we'll see, if they can stay peaceful and on terms with the Kurds, stabilize the country and hand over power to a democratic country maybe they can start to rebuild or the whole thing will goto shit and we'll have another civil war
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
Some are speculating Assad's plane might have been shot down because the transponder disappeared/switched off.

I hope this is true, though I suspect that his aircraft met up with Russian or Iranian escorts, and then they switched off the transponder. Where is Assad's family at the moment?

The interesting thing is that I think it's partly thanks to Ukraine fucking up the Russians, and Israel fucking up Hezbollah and Iran that helped accelerate all this and opened the way for the toppling of the Assad regime.
 
Last edited:

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Key moments
Updated 47 seconds ago
9:05am
Rayner welcomes fall of Assad regime
8:43am
Israeli military will not intervene
3:23am
Syria now ‘without Assad’, say opposition
2:31am
Assad ‘left on a plane’
2:28am
Syrian rebels: we are entering Damascus
People celebrate at Umayyad Square in Damascus
People celebrate at Umayyad Square in

The Syrian government has fallen in a stunning end to the 50-year rule of the Assad family following a rapid rebel offensive.

Syrian rebels declared victory over President Bashar al-Assad’s regime early on Sunday, after fighters entered Damascus and the president reportedly fled the country. Two army officials said Assad boarded a plane and left to an unknown destination.

“After 50 years of oppression under Baath rule, and 13 years of crimes and tyranny and (forced) displacement... we announce today the end of this dark period and the start of a new era for Syria,” the rebels said on Telegram.

The dramatic collapse marks a seismic moment for the Middle East, ending the family’s iron-fisted rule over Syria and dealing a massive blow to Russia and Iran, which have lost a key ally at the heart of the region.

Syrian Prime Minister Mohammed Ghazi Jalali said the government was ready to “cooperate” with the opposition and hand over its functions in a peaceful transition of power.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Some are speculating Assad's plane might have been shot down because the transponder disappeared/switched off.

I hope this is true, though I suspect that his aircraft met up with Russian or Iranian escorts, and then they switched off the transponder. Where is Assad's family at the moment?

The interesting thing is that I think it's partly thanks to Ukraine fucking up the Russians, and Israel fucking up Hezbollah and Iran that helped accelerate all this and opened the way for the toppling of the Assad regime.
It'd be great if the US or Israelis where monitoring the situation, identified the aircraft and then shot it down, they have the assets in the area tbf but the simplest explanation is usually the one.

All the cards fell into place, his allies the ones prepping up the regime have all become bogged down in their own shit leaving Assad alone and no doubt with the help of external intelligence the Rebels seen their chances and went for it, having planned and prepared for this since Israel rolled into Beruit.

They've been saying all the right things to assure the Syrian people and the West with regards to protecting minorities, you just gotta hope the leader is not a power hungry lunatic that wants to install himself as Assad 2.0
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
One would expect to see people protesting about this war all around the world. Or about Sudan.
But the silence is deafening.

Yep, where's the outcry and bleating for the Syrians that were murdered and tortured under Assad and supported by their Russian and Iranian allies? Or for us to intervene in the actual ethnic cleansing going on in Darfur? Where were the marches and the encampments on campuses? I could go on etc etc.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Golani (leader of the rebels) is said to be more moderate and tolerant so hopefully this is will be the start of something better for the Syrian people.

You have to be very, very naive to think that a man who was once involved in ISIS and Al-Qaeda is a moderate.



Syria is going to turn into another shit show like Iraq and Libya now that jihadists have taken over most of the country. Assad was a dictator, but he was the head of a secular country who kept the islamists at bay and the various ethnic/religious minorities in Syria safe. I don't think any Christians, Alawites, Druzes, Kurds, etc in Syria will feel safe now.
 
Last edited:
I can't say I am optimistic. Afghanistan, Iraq, libya. Anything can happen here. We could see a rare success but we also see Libya 2.0. Depends if these rebels really are Al Qaeda and the remnants of IS. We could see a massacre of the Kurds. Might even see an attack on Israel. Might have relative Peace. Who knows. Like with Afghanistan you will know quickly enough if they are going to have democracy or stop girls going to school. Assad might have been a monster but the particular sect he came from was the most moderate as to why Al Qaeda hates them.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Will Assad get asylum in Russia?

You have to be very, very naive to think that a man who was once involved in ISIS and Al-Qaeda is a moderate.



Syria is going to turn into another shit show like Iraq and Libya now that jihadists have taken over most of the country. Assad was a dictator, but he was the head of a secular country who kept the islamists at bay and the various ethnic/religious minorities in Syria safe. I don't think any Christians, Alawites, Druzes, Kurds, etc in Syria will feel safe now.


Yeah I agree, Islamists are all the fucking same but he's been making the right moves, hell they've ruled the Idlib province for a number of years now and didn't turn it into an islamic hellhole, not one Christian was persecuted same with the other sects plus he knows full well that the West, Turkey and Israel would never allow the country to fall into an Afghanistan type situation, they'd simply be prolonging the war and incurring the wrath of the US airstrikes at every opertunity
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Yeah I agree, Islamists are all the fucking same but he's been making the right moves, hell they've ruled the Idlib province for a number of years now and didn't turn it into an islamic hellhole, not one Christian was persecuted same with the other sects plus he knows full well that the West, Turkey and Israel would never allow the country to fall into an Afghanistan type situation, they'd simply be prolonging the war and incurring the wrath of the US airstrikes at every opertunity

If there were no Christians persecuted in Idlib, it's because there was almost no one left anymore.


Syria has been ruled for more than 50 years by the al-Assad family, and under both Hafez, who died in 2000, and his son, Bashar, who has been Syria’s president since, violence between religious communities was rare. But that system, and the life that Mr. al-Jisri had long known, fell apart after Syria’s civil war began in 2011, shaking the government’s hold on large swaths of territory.
In 2015, Islamist rebels stormed the city of Idlib. As they took control, they killed a Christian man, Elias al-Khal, and his son, Najib, who sold alcohol, Mr. al-Jisri said. Soon after, they kidnapped Father Ibrahim and held him for 19 days, the priest said. By the time he was released, the church library and archive had been pillaged, and most of the about 1,200 Christians who had remained in the city until the rebels arrived had already fled or were on their way out.
“News spreads easily,” Mr. al-Jisri said. “They put their families in cars and drove away.”
The city’s new rulers closed the church and banned public displays of Christian devotion, further fueling the exodus. Once the Christians were gone, the rebels took over their homes and shops.

Christians were about 10 percent of Syria’s population of 21 million before the war began in 2011. Now, they account for about 5 percent, with fewer than 700,000 left, according to groups that track the persecution of Christians around the world. With the fall of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Christians began to leave that country in droves as well, and their population had shrunk to less than 500,000 by 2015 from as many as 1.5 million in 2003.
The flight of Christians from Idlib was particularly extreme, and by the end of 2015, Father Ibrahim said, only five Christians were left. Two have since died.
 
Last edited:
I can't see that happening. Would make a nice change though.Turkey is involved and retribution on the Kurds is likely. Some of these groups very much dislike Israel. Any attack on these especially Israel will bring in the US to an extent. Iran could get involved to protect the Islamic minorities there. Basically Russia's rational. That would bring in the West to some degree. The two best outcomes is either there is genuine peace or like Libya, will just descend into infighting. Many of these groups fighting Assad don't like one another so might just fight each after there common enemy is gone like Libya
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Russia is done pretending it is a global power... the moment the Kremlin Putain started moving troops off Syria 2 days ago baathist folded.

On the other hand, peace is far from done: there's a hodgepodge of rebel groups left, they still need to negotiate peace amongst themselves.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Better if US and UK don't get involved. For once. Just once.

The US is already involved in Syria. There are 900 US troops plus an unknown number of private contractors in NE Syria to "protect the oil fields" (cough)


 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
You have to be very, very naive to think that a man who was once involved in ISIS and Al-Qaeda is a moderate.



Syria is going to turn into another shit show like Iraq and Libya now that jihadists have taken over most of the country. Assad was a dictator, but he was the head of a secular country who kept the islamists at bay and the various ethnic/religious minorities in Syria safe. I don't think any Christians, Alawites, Druzes, Kurds, etc in Syria will feel safe now.


Yep, you're probably right and the same old shit will happen again. However he has been publicly distancing himself from that hardline radical rhetoric and he did assure the Christians in Aleppo that they wouldn't be harmed. Anyway time will tell.
 

Boss Mog

Member
OP seems to be delighted, that the "rebels" which are nothing more than islamic extremists of the worst kind, have taken over the country from a more civilized regime even if it was heavily flawed one. I'm sure the non-muslims will be thrilled. This is what Wikipedia has to say about the lovely people that OP is championing:

Christians in Syria made up about 10% of the pre-war Syrian population but now makes up less than 2%, falling from 1.5 million in 2011 to just 300,000 in 2022 due to widespread persecution by Islamic terrorists and the impact of the Syrian Civil War. Christians in Syria have also been subjected to violence and discrimination by Islamic State fighters during their control of large areas of the country. Their churches have been converted into military headquarters, and their property confiscated. Persecution of Christians in Syria has further intensified since.[4][5][6] In Aleppo, the country's second largest city, the proportion of Christian residents fell from 12% pre-war to 1.4% in 2023 with more than 20 churches damaged during the war.[7] The city of Idlib has been almost entirely depopulated of its Christian population under Islamist rule.[8] Some governments and organisations including the United States have claimed that the persecution of Christians in the Middle East and North Africa, especially in Syria and Iraq, constitute an act of genocide.[9
 

mansoor1980

Member
Is Gerard Butler in this one?
star-trek-next-generation.gif
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
OP seems to be delighted, that the "rebels" which are nothing more than islamic extremists of the worst kind, have taken over the country from a more civilized regime even if it was heavily flawed one. I'm sure the non-muslims will be thrilled. This is what Wikipedia has to say about the lovely people that OP is championing:
Op is not delighted the rebels won, Op is optimistic that maybe just maybe those fuckers and make no mistake they are Islamists afterall anyways they might just want a fucking peaceful Syria after how many years of fighting, am I expecting Libya 2.0? Yes, but I'm hopeful that the various factions can get their shit together and sort it out relatively peacefully without the regional & wider powers sticking their oar in afterall they've been publicly saying the right things (no doubt to stop the west bombing the shit out of them as they advance and have the advantage) anyways time will tell, for now there'll be too many scores to settle but once the dust settles we'll see otherwise we should once and for all wall of the fucking middle east and be done with the cunts, maybe Trump can help out, I hear he's done a stellar job building walls
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Why the next twist in Syria could bring greater horrors than Assad
The 13-year rebellion against Bashar al-Assad’s regime may be over, but Syria’s civil war may not be

It took just 11 days to end the 13-year rebellion against Bashar al-Assad, an offensive so rapid that what unfolds next in Syria itself is, to an extent, anyone’s guess.

What is clear is that the dial of history is shifting again in the Middle East, not for the first time in the tumultuous 14 months since Hamas carried out its massacre in Israel on Oct 7 last year.

Over the coming days and weeks, the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East will be redrawn further as power in Syria shifts from Assad’s Alawite minority, a Shia offshoot, to the country’s Sunni Arab majority.

Both Shia Iran and Russia will lose their most important Arab client. Russia, whose ruthless aerial bombardment helped Assad to recapture rebel-held cities, looks set to lose its naval base at Tartus and air base at Hmeimim to the north, depriving Vladimir Putin of a foothold on the eastern Mediterranean.

But Mr Putin has other options in the region, most notably in Libya, where Russia supports Khalifa Haftar, the warlord who controls most of the country.

Iran, on the other hand, is far more weakened. Israeli military action has hollowed out its most important non-state allies, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza.

The fall of the Assad regime, which Iran could do little to prevent, leaves Tehran shorn of its most important client state, one which acted as a vital land bridge between Iran and Lebanon through which it could rearm and resupply Hezbollah.

The magnitude of the calamity is very apparent in Iran. Assad’s fall was “one of the most significant events in the history of the Middle East,” Mohammad Ali Abtahi, a former vice president, said.

Iran’s network of proxies across the Middle East would be left without support, he added, warning that “Israel would become the dominant force.”

With the fall of Bashar al-Assad, Vladimir Putin has lost a foothold on the eastern Mediterranean
With the fall of Bashar al-Assad, Vladimir Putin has lost a foothold on the eastern Mediterranean.

Israel is certainly likely to emerge stronger if a Sunni regime in Syria seals the main land corridor along which Iranian weapons to Hezbollah flows. It will also welcome the further weakening of Iran.

However, there will also be concern about what emerges in Assad’s place.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), the Islamist rebel faction that mounted the offensive which led to Assad’s downfall — and which is now likely to play a very influential role in shaping Syria’s future — is very much an unknown quantity.

It was an affiliate of al-Qaeda until severing ties in 2017, a move that did not convince the United States to lift its terrorist designation of the group.

Its leader, Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, served five years in various US detention facilities in Iraq, including at Abu Ghraib, and had ties to both al-Qaeda and ISIS. The United States still has a $10 million (£7.8 million) bounty on his head.

He has, however, moderated his tone, softened his image and preached a message of inclusivity that has been sufficient to convince, at least partially, some Western policymakers that he has genuinely mellowed.

As his forces swept southwards from the patch of territory HTS held in Idlib Province near the Turkish border, Jolani reached out to Iran and Israel as well as to Syria’s nervous Alawite and Christian minorities to assure them that the transition of power would be orderly and that no ethnic reprisals would be taken.

His officials have also worked cordially with members of the Assad regime, including Mr Assad’s prime minister Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali, to ensure an orderly hand over of power. The bloodbath some feared as the rebels entered Damascus has not so far materialised.

Beyond HTS, however, there are numerous other rebel factions, from Turkish-backed factions to Kurdish dominated groups, not to mention Isis, heavily weakened but still in control of a sliver of Syrian territory and still able to launch localised attacks.

For the moment, there is great optimism in Syria that a new democratic era is dawning.

“We are living through historic moments as we witness the fall of the authoritarian regime in Damascus,” said Mazloum Abdi, the commander of Syrian Democratic Forces, a US-backed, Kurdish-led armed group.

“This change presents an opportunity to build a new Syria based on democracy and justice that guarantees the rights of all Syrians.”

Such optimism may prove well-founded. Yet it is also a reminder that the country’s factions will look to secure a place in the new Syria – and that they still have their guns if they do not get what they want.

Given that there is unlikely to be much of a restraining hand from the incoming Trump administration, disgruntled armed groups may be even more emboldened to act.

Commenting on the events in Syria this weekend, Donald Trump made it clear that he wishes to remain well clear of the fray when he takes power in January, saying that “this is not our fight. Let it play out. Do not get involved.”

In other words, the 13-year rebellion against Bashar al-Assad may be over. Syria’s civil war may not be.
 

Kraz

Member
Hopefully things become peaceful enough there soon for the Syrian refugees here to go back there. Then they can stop their frenzied protesting against secular education here with the other religious fanatics and anti-lgbtq types.
Cynically, it seems more likely they want the benefits of living in a prosperous, safe, liberal society that recognizes fundamental human rights, instead of a oppressive theocracy, and won't go. But, optimistically, maybe they do want to go back and work to rebuild their country to their ideals.

Regardless, this situation is a good indicator that Moscovia power projection has weakened. It wasn't long ago Poostain was braggadocio about Russia being a global force due to its Syrian intervention.
When ruscists tried to attack the American base there and got wiped out before even getting close put some cracks in that facade.
 

Kraz

Member
They will claim to be gay or Christian so it's unsafe for them to ever leave.
If the claim is true that's alright. As long as they're not lying to embed and push the oppressive religious delusion that got them to leave in the first place. That kind of determination may need to be more strict, and deceit made equivalent to criminal activity allowing for expulsion.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Would be funny to let the groups fight amongst themselves and come back to wipe them all out when they are weakened.

I think the more likely scenario that's going to play out in Syria is this one:

Look at what happened in Libya when the US State Department killed Gaddafi. The worst is yet to come for Syrians.

The west (primarily US/Israel) only cared about weakening Iran's influence in Syria and getting rid of Assad. They don't give a shit about what's going to happen now that jihadists are in power. The best thing that could happen in their minds is when there's a permanent power vacuum with warring factions fighting each other. If there's going to be another refugee exodus, those people will end up in Turkey and Europe anyway.

The idea that when a middle-eastern dictator falls democracy will flourish is a fairy tale, it hasn't happened once so far. Things are only going to get worse: Turkey still wants to crush any notion of a Kurdish autonomous region/state and may want to grab some Syrian land, the US is in control of Syria's oil fields, Israel may want to create a buffer zone in Syria next to the Golan heights and then there are the international jihadists within HTS that believe in the caliphate instead of democracy. At least with Assad there was stability, now chaos will reign.
 

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
I think the more likely scenario that's going to play out in Syria is this one:



The west (primarily US/Israel) only cared about weakening Iran's influence in Syria and getting rid of Assad. They don't give a shit about what's going to happen now that jihadists are in power. The best thing that could happen in their minds is when there's a permanent power vacuum with warring factions fighting each other. If there's going to be another refugee exodus, those people will end up in Turkey and Europe anyway.

The idea that when a middle-eastern dictator falls democracy will flourish is a fairy tale, it hasn't happened once so far. Things are only going to get worse: Turkey still wants to crush any notion of a Kurdish autonomous region/state and may want to grab some Syrian land, the US is in control of Syria's oil fields, Israel may want to create a buffer zone in Syria next to the Golan heights and then there are the international jihadists within HTS that believe in the caliphate instead of democracy. At least with Assad there was stability, now chaos will reign.

Yup. How many times have we gone through this song and dance before? Westerners get happy thinking a despot has been overthrow, only to realize he was the one holding far worse Islamist forces at bay.

Bad day for non-muslims and other minorities in Syria.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
They still have to reclaim the coastal Alawite regions, hopefully through a negotiated surrender to avoid a lot of lives lost. It is pretty clear that New Syria is backed and supported by Turkey and their priority is a stable enough region for all of the refugees to return or be returned.

All of that Russian money, equipment, and lives lost to build on their imperialist ambitions in Africa only for the Russians to run away like clowns lol.
 
Hopefully it turns out well for the people living there.
I doubt it though, its going to be another terrorist group taking control. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Trump already tweeted this is not our fight and we should stay out of it.
And thats the way it should be. Let that region of the world fight forever on their own.

It's too bad the avg human only lives about 80 years. Because I swear if all of us lived 1,000 years, that region would still be fighting in the next millennium.

But what will happen is at some point shit hits the fan. And then all the western countries have to pony up money, military and taking in refugees as global babysitters as always.
 
Last edited:

Jinzo Prime

Member
Now the various rebel factions need to honour their committment to a peaceful transition, wether or not that happens the West is watching, 1 of the groups is an Islamist offshoot from Al Qaeda so we'll see, if they can stay peaceful and on terms with the Kurds, stabilize the country and hand over power to a democratic country maybe they can start to rebuild or the whole thing will goto shit and we'll have another civil war
Hopefully things become peaceful enough there soon for the Syrian refugees here to go back there. Then they can stop their frenzied protesting against secular education here with the other religious fanatics and anti-lgbtq types.
Cynically, it seems more likely they want the benefits of living in a prosperous, safe, liberal society that recognizes fundamental human rights, instead of a oppressive theocracy, and won't go. But, optimistically, maybe they do want to go back and work to rebuild their country to their ideals.

Syria is so fucked, and so is Europe. Those scavengers will never go back to dry, destitute, war-ravaged Syria, you're stuck with them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom