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T.S.A. Expands Duties Beyond Airport Security

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Espresso

Banned
VIPER-popup.jpg


WASHINGTON — As hundreds of commuters emerged from Amtrak and commuter trains at Union Station on a recent morning, an armed squad of men and women dressed in bulletproof vests made their way through the crowds.

The squad was not with the Washington police department or Amtrak’s police force, but was one of the Transportation Security Administration’s Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response squads — VIPR teams for short — assigned to perform random security sweeps to prevent terrorist attacks at transportation hubs across the United States.

“The T.S.A., huh,” said Donald Neubauer of Greenville, Ohio, as he walked past the squad. “I thought they were just at the airports.”

With little fanfare, the agency best known for airport screenings has vastly expanded its reach to sporting events, music festivals, rodeos, highway weigh stations and train terminals. Not everyone is happy.

T.S.A. and local law enforcement officials say the teams are a critical component of the nation’s counterterrorism efforts, but some members of Congress, auditors at the Department of Homeland Security and civil liberties groups are sounding alarms. The teams are also raising hackles among passengers who call them unnecessary and intrusive.

“Our mandate is to provide security and counterterrorism operations for all high-risk transportation targets, not just airports and aviation,” said John S. Pistole, the administrator of the agency. “The VIPR teams are a big part of that.”

Some in Congress, however, say the T.S.A. has not demonstrated that the teams are effective. Auditors at the Department of Homeland Security are asking questions about whether the teams are properly trained and deployed based on actual security threats.

Civil liberties groups say that the VIPR teams have little to do with the agency’s original mission to provide security screenings at airports and that in some cases their actions amount to warrantless searches in violation of constitutional protections.

“The problem with T.S.A. stopping and searching people in public places outside the airport is that there are no real legal standards, or probable cause,” said Khaliah Barnes, administrative law counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington. “It’s something that is easily abused because the reason that they are conducting the stops is shrouded in secrecy.”

T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs” or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks.

Created in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the T.S.A. has grown to an agency of 56,000 people at 450 American airports. The VIPR teams were started in 2005, in part as a reaction to the Madrid train bombing in 2004 that killed 191 people.

The program now has a $100 million annual budget and is growing rapidly, increasing to several hundred people and 37 teams last year, up from 10 teams in 2008. T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year, including those at the Indianapolis 500 and the Democratic and Republican national political conventions.

The teams, which are typically composed of federal air marshals, explosives experts and baggage inspectors, move through crowds with bomb-sniffing dogs, randomly stop passengers and ask security questions. There is usually a specially trained undercover plainclothes member who monitors crowds for suspicious behavior, said Kimberly F. Thompson, a T.S.A. spokeswoman. Some team members are former members of the military and police forces.

T.S.A. officials would not say if the VIPR teams had ever foiled a terrorist plot or thwarted any major threat to public safety, saying the information is classified. But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence.

Security experts give the agency high marks for creating the VIPR teams. “They introduce an unexpected element into situations where a terrorist might be planning an attack,” said Rafi Ron, the former chief of security for Ben-Gurion International Airport in Israel, who is now a transportation security consultant.

Local law enforcement officials also welcome the teams.​

Source: The New York Times
 

Mael

Member
Aren't they the people that do exams like aliens do in popular culture?

e : I guess they'll need more lube...
 

WedgeX

Banned
Given my experience with the TSA at airports...I feel a bit less secure on Amtrak with them running around.
 

J-Rod

Member
TSA will never go away because they have too many jobs tied up in it now. I wish they would hire compentant people, because most the ones they have now aren't fit to be walmart greeters.
 

jaxword

Member
What's sad is that it'll just get worse.

And every time it gets a little worse, people will STILL say "It's not a police state yet!"
 

mackattk

Member
"T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year"

Would love to see the statistics of how many of those checkpoints were "successful", as in catching anyone deemed as a terrorist threat.
 

sangreal

Member
"T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year"

Would love to see the statistics of how many of those checkpoints were "successful", as in catching anyone deemed as a terrorist threat.

"T.S.A. officials would not say if the VIPR teams had ever foiled a terrorist plot or thwarted any major threat to public safety, saying the information is classified. But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence."

In other words, zero. Just like their airport operations
 

RBH

Member
The teams, which are typically composed of federal air marshals, explosives experts and baggage inspectors, move through crowds with bomb-sniffing dogs, randomly stop passengers and ask security questions.
Joy.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Is this one of those things where they just assume people will voluntarily submit to a search, which is how they are legally allowed to do this?
 

Ataraxia

Member
Given my experience with the TSA at airports...I feel a bit less secure on Amtrak with them running around.

Not the same people. TSA airport screeners are not TSA law enforcement. Screeners aren't sworn and don't cary firearms or have arrest authority. The armed plainclothes air marshals are of a different caliber and some of the best shooters in the country. Both fall under TSA.
 

comedian

Member
isn't this what the police force is for ?

I won't be surprised to hear that the "random searches" effect a disproportionate amount of black/arab "looking" people and hispanics. So what's going to happen is that these ethnics groups are going to be searched by local police officers and TSA. Anyone who belongs to one of these groups planning to meet with friends should take into account all these random searches he'll be subjected to make in time.
 
Pretty sure this violates the 4th Amendment.

In fact, this is exactly the thing the 4th amendment was in response to and tries to prevent. Writ of assistance were used by British Customs at ports to search for smuggled goods anywhere.

Sounds like TSA is doing the same thing.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
"T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs” or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks."

"But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence."

This is probably one of the more depressing things I'll read this week. How did we allow this to happen?
 

Kinyou

Member
assigned to perform random security sweeps to prevent terrorist attacks at transportation hubs across the United States.

I'd love to know how many terrorists they've caught so far.

Might as well do random security sweeps at schools because of the shootings.
 
This is probably one of the more depressing things I'll read this week. How did we allow this to happen?

The government can do anything they practically want because the consequences of violating the constitution takes time to catch up with the act of violating it, and if/when the consequences arrive, everyone is forgiven. -_-

With no one being held accountable, it's only going to get worse.
 
TSA.jpg


American sense of security - best in the world!

Watched that episode a few nights back.

"I just need to check ya aaaaaasshole."

Edit: I'd like to see this sort of thing talked about more, and brought to the forefront by media and candidates for the upcoming elections. I'm all for security, but they have to know that in doing this they're playing into terrorist hands.
 

Brobzoid

how do I slip unnoticed out of a gloryhole booth?
" But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence."

I would imagine this would have a negative effect on the public confidence. But then again maybe some people feel more secure being randomly accosted by armed security wearing vests.
 

Ataraxia

Member
So what gives the TSA the actual authority to stop and question someone at one of those random sweeps?

6 U.S.C. § 1112 gives federal air marshals the authority to augment the security of any mode of transportation at any location within the United States.
 

drspeedy

Member
Is anyone else concerned that all the various gov't security agencies are ramping up their forces because they're basically distrustful of each other? Seems like it's an arms race between the DEA, NSA, FBI, CIA, etc... they've seen the enemy, and it's everyone else.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
" But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence."

I would imagine this would have a negative effect on the public confidence. But then again maybe some people feel more secure being randomly accosted by armed security wearing vests.

They don't believe this. We don't believe this. Nobody fucking believes this. Talk about insane levels of doublespeak.

Grrr
 
Do they also wear badges/id's?
I mean, what can they actually do when you refuse to cooperate?

They detain you for a few hours, ask you a shitload of questions, refuse you the right to travel, and make your day pretty miserable because they can.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
"T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs” or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks."

"But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence."

This is probably one of the more depressing things I'll read this week. How did we allow this to happen?

We didn't allow this to happen. They just do it, and they know there's fuck all that we can do about it, until someone sues and then that will take years to finish the suit, meanwhile they continue to operate.
 

daveo42

Banned
I really don't like the idea that the federal government is now patroling the streets. We are one step closer to the US becoming a military state to "protect" its citizens from terrorists.

Freedom isn't free indeed...
 

Irminsul

Member
T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs” or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks.
So under the assumption that one wants to prevent terrorist attacks (or, no, only furthering the need to prevent terrorist attacks), anything goes?

Okay then. Maybe some guys should start thinking about something called proportionality. But only maybe.
 
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