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[cja]

and the IP associated with the developer, including Top Spin.

The references to Indie in Take-Two's just released 10-K:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/946581/000112528204006450/b401856_10k.htm

follow. Note numbers are in thousands, so add three zeros.

We recently acquired certain assets from Microsoft Corporation, including Indie Built (“Indie”), the developer of the successful Top Spin (tennis), Amped and Amped 2 (snowboarding) and Links (golf) sports games, and the intellectual property rights associated with these products.

Indie. In October 2004, we acquired certain assets from Microsoft, including Indie, the developer of the successful Top Spin (tennis), Amped and Amped 2 (snowboarding) and Links (golf) sports games, and the intellectual property rights associated with these products. The purchase price for these assets was $18,500 paid in cash at closing. In connection with the acquisition, we recorded $5,828 in identifiable intangible assets, $11,593 of goodwill, $280 of fixed assets and $829 of accounts receivable, on a preliminary basis.

 

[open_mouth_]

That's peanuts for Microsoft... There's gotta be more to this deal. GTA exclusive for Xenon launch?

 

[bitwise]

indeed. something is up

 

[Vark]

I don't care what anyone else says I <3 Amped.

 

[jarrod]

That's peanuts for Microsoft... There's gotta be more to this deal. GTA exclusive for Xenon launch?

I dunno, Microsoft isn't exactly in the driver's seat for bargining. Maybe this was how they managed a port of San Andreas on Xbox, but it'll take a whole lot more to get GTA-anything exclusive and before PS3.

 

[explodet]

<Microsoft> What's it going to take to get Grand Theft Auto 4 ported to the Xenon?
<Take Two> Give us Digital Anvil and FASA.
<Microsoft> Hmmm... How about we give you Rare instead?
<Take Two> I thought you were serious about negotiation... obviously we're wasting our time here.
<Microsoft> Okay, okay, take them. It's not like Digital Anvil has done anything since Brute Force anyway...
<Take Two> It's a pleasure doing business with you.

 

[monkeyrun]

<Microsoft> What's it going to take to get Grand Theft Auto 4 ported to the Xenon?
<Take Two> Give us Digital Anvil and FASA.
<Microsoft> Hmmm... How about we give you Rare instead?
<Take Two> I thought you were serious about negotiation... obviously we're wasting our time here.
<Microsoft> Okay, okay, take them. It's not like Digital Anvil has done anything since Brute Force anyway...
<Take Two> It's a pleasure doing business with you.

lol poor rare ...

 

[open_mouth_]

I dunno, Microsoft isn't exactly in the driver's seat for bargining. Maybe this was how they managed a port of San Andreas on Xbox, but it'll take a whole lot more to get GTA-anything exclusive and before PS3.

They were gonna release GTA: San Andreas for Xbox anywayz and at this stage of the game, Microsoft has the majority of its resources focused on Xenon rather than Xbox, so why even bargain for that???

 

[The Faceless Master]

damn, that was a steal.. its like MS just gave it away...

 

[Meier]

I still dont get how Top Spin is associated with these guys. PAM (French dev) developed it.

 

[IgeL]

So they actually got the Top Spin ipr... Was PAM just a hired gun, and might not work on the sequel now? We want the sequel and it would be good financially (Top Spin has sold pretty well for a tennis game, some 200-400k in the US, right?).

 

[jarrod]

They were gonna release GTA: San Andreas for Xbox anywayz and at this stage of the game, Microsoft has the majority of its resources focused on Xenon rather than Xbox, so why even bargain for that???

You sure San Andreas was guaranteed Xbox release anywayz? And you really think Microsoft could get a Xenon exclusive GTA simply by selling off an inconsequential sports team? Keep dreaming.

I still dont get how Top Spin is associated with these guys. PAM (French dev) developed it.

Indie produced the game, PAM was their contracted developer.

 

[nitewulf]

heh, it doesnt have to be anything deeper than perhaps MS just wants to keep a cosy relationship with Take Two. thats how you do business...

 

[IJoel]

You sure San Andreas was guaranteed Xbox release anywayz? And you really think Microsoft could get a Xenon exclusive GTA simply by selling off an inconsequential sports team? Keep dreaming.

Considering the GTA double pack has sold more than 1M on the Xbox (> $40M revenue alone on that,) it'd be foolish to believe they wouldn't have released GTA: SA on the Xbox as well.

I don't think an exclusive GTA would be negotiable from them, but what I do think could be possible, would be a revamped GTA Collection for Xbox 2's launch or shortly after with some exclusive content, or perhaps something like a new city in a revamped GTA: SA.

 

[Redbeard]

GTA 4 launching simultaneously on all appropriate platforms?

 

[The Faceless Master]

GTA 4 launching simultaneously on all appropriate platforms?

you mean PS3/X2? :lol :lol :lol

 

[jarrod]

heh, it doesnt have to be anything deeper than perhaps MS just wants to keep a cosy relationship with Take Two. thats how you do business...

I'd agree with that. Microsoft's been looking to ditch sports and T2's looking to take them up... seems like a no brainer.

GTA 4 launching simultaneously on all appropriate platforms?

SCEI wouldn't allow that.

 

[Exis]

Links is the best Golf game I have played on a console so I pray they keep it around.. I really liked Amped as well although eventually it got to hard and I got stuck..

If they use them in a good way I shall be happy, otherwise they are the next EA.

-Exis

 

[Blimblim]

So they actually got the Top Spin ipr... Was PAM just a hired gun, and might not work on the sequel now? We want the sequel and it would be good financially (Top Spin has sold pretty well for a tennis game, some 200-400k in the US, right?).

PAM is working on a new tennis game code named "Ace". It's a multiplatform title for the current generation of console, so it should be a step down from Top Spin graphically.
But if the gameplay is even better than Top Spin I'll be happy to play it, even without all the Xbox nice effects like self shadowing.

 

[Mike Works]

SCEI wouldn't allow that.

Do they have an exclusivity agreement for GTA PS3?

 

[JayFro]

PAM is working on a new tennis game code named "Ace". It's a multiplatform title for the current generation of console, so it should be a step down from Top Spin graphically.
But if the gameplay is even better than Top Spin I'll be happy to play it, even without all the Xbox nice effects like self shadowing.

Hmmm............can you tell me more?


So MS either was granted a GTA 3 pack for the release of Xenon with better graphics and such or GTA 4 will be released at the same time for PS3 and Xbox 2. I seriously doubt MS was able to snag GTA 4 as a timed exclusive.........unless they gave them an ungodly chunk of $$$.

 

[Blimblim]

Hmmm............can you tell me more?

Sorry I don't know anything more than that. It should be announced real soon though.

 

[Rhindle]

$18.5 Mil actually seems like a pretty reasonable price. They are getting a pretty good and reliable (but small) development team, and two solid but not stellar brands.

Maybe there's more to the story, maybe there isn't. Take 2 never disclosed the terms of their exclusivity agreement with Sony. They're just about the most secretive publisher in the business.

 

[Rhindle]

You sure San Andreas was guaranteed Xbox release anywayz? And you really think Microsoft could get a Xenon exclusive GTA simply by selling off an inconsequential sports team? Keep dreaming.

Indie produced the game, PAM was their contracted developer.

Glancing at the Top Spin manual, it looks like more of a co-production. The MGS team did most of the animation, motion capture and sound design.

 

[explodet]

They're just about the most secretive publisher in the business.

Quite true. Just ask the SEC!

 

[JayFro]

Sorry I don't know anything more than that. It should be announced real soon though.

Thanks for the info, I've been playing Topspin regularly online and offline for over a year now. The best tennis game ever IMO, but I can't wait to see what PAM can come up with and I hope it's out for Xbox or X2 at launch.

 

[thorns]

I think, as a first party, for Xbox 2, MS is going to focus on huge/epic/big budget and production value titles such as Halo 2, seeing how successful that games. IMHO they're going to stay away from "niche" kinds of games.

 

[element]

Links itself is a HUGE property. the PC version sells each and every year.

 

[jarrod]

Do they have an exclusivity agreement for GTA PS3?

Well, they have more bargining chips than Microsoft. I don't doubt Xenon will get a GTA game, just not exclusively and not before PS3 most likely.

Glancing at the Top Spin manual, it looks like more of a co-production. The MGS team did most of the animation, motion capture and sound design.

$18.5 Mil actually seems like a pretty reasonable price. They are getting a pretty good and reliable (but small) development team, and two solid but not stellar brands.

They got three brands actually. Topspin, Links and Amped.

I think, as a first party, for Xbox 2, MS is going to focus on huge/epic/big budget and production value titles such as Halo 2, seeing how successful that games. IMHO they're going to stay away from "niche" kinds of games.

Yep, looks more to me Microsoft is aiming higher as a console publisher. Big marquee titles from Bungie, Rare and Bioware surrounded by strong "filler" brands like PGR, Fable, MechAssault, Crimson Skies, Age of Empires and so on. No sports whatsoever, they want to grow their own franchises.... less EA, more Nintendo.

 

[Ghost]

They sold the Links IP?!

I dunno if this means anything is going on with Take-Two but it definitely shows that MS is firmly in bed with EA now (It's way beyond just a civil agreement on Live games), giving up Amped as well as Links cements SSX and TW as the only contenders in their genres. Selling these Devs and IPs off to T2 (so cheaply) might just be part of a plan to squeeze T2 into their king size bed as well.

 

[jarrod]

I dunno if this means anything is going on with Take-Two but it definitely shows that MS is firmly in bed with EA now (It's way beyond just a civil agreement on Live games), giving up Amped as well as Links cements SSX and TW as the only contenders in their genres.

Actually by selling these brands to Take Two, Microsoft has essentially increased competition for EA. Cometition from Amped and Links will now spread to multiple platforms rather than being confined to just Xbox/PC.

 

[Izzy]

Even Links? But it's been MS property since the early nineties...

 

[Shard]

That isn't true, that isn't true at all.

Links used to be the property of Access until it got swallowed by Microsoft back in 1999 along with the Links and Tex Murphy IPs.

Though this one thing that nobody seems to have on clarification on, did MS sell off thier IPS along with Indie Built or did they just sell off the devleoper?

 

[jedimike]

I wouldn't look too much into it. MS kind of owed Take-Two for buying out Bungie. Shane Kim has been trimming the fat ever since he got in the position from Ed Fries... of course he isn't a surgeon and sometimes he confuses fat and muscle.

 

[Shard]

MS didn't owe anything to Take 2 after they bought out Bungie, due to the fact that Take 2 walked away with the Myth and Oni franchises along with some cash. Of course, we all know who got the better end of THAT deal in the end.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I wouldn't look too much into it. MS kind of owed Take-Two for buying out Bungie. Shane Kim has been trimming the fat ever since he got in the position from Ed Fries... of course he isn't a surgeon and sometimes he confuses fat and muscle.

That's the beauty of Shane Kim.

 

[kard]

Even Links? But it's been MS property since the early nineties...

From Links Forum:
http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=10995776

"I'm glad the news has finally broke on this. I think for the title itself moving out from under Microsoft is a very positive thing. Microsoft is moving to focus on much bigger types of titles and there's not a lot of room for games that are not going to sell in the millions.

Hopefully with the news breaking someone from Indie will be able to speak to the future directions of the game. I can't speak to what is going on there anymore.

People should try to take at least some 'glass half-full' thoughts:

Unlike the Sports Studio in Redmond (Rivals, Fever, and Inside Drive) which was shutdown completely, the Studio in Salt Lake was very valuable and a major publisher paid money to secure the people and titles. There's a future and I think it looks bright.

There are no longer 'single platform' limitations on the Studio. I hope to see all the games come out on multiple platforms. The more people who can feel the Links love the better for the franchise. And I do know that spreading to more platforms is a big advantage when negotiating with big courses for exclusivity.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daryl Welsh
Test Manager - Xbox Group

 

[thorns]

I wouldn't look too much into it. MS kind of owed Take-Two for buying out Bungie. Shane Kim has been trimming the fat ever since he got in the position from Ed Fries... of course he isn't a surgeon and sometimes he confuses fat and muscle.

basically MS is trying to limit 1st party titles to games that appeal to "everyone" (in the same way that Halo 2 does), they probably realized they don't need tons of first party titles to succeed anymore, since they've established the brand name and gotten tons of 3rd party support. MS really just wants to develop the software platform/hardware and let the third parties make the games. They'll probably still publish select titles (like they did with Outrun 2 and Kingdom Under Fire), but I doubt we will see many more smaller titles from them. After all two of their biggest successes have been big and epic titles, like Fable and Halo. I think a lot of the success of their new strategy will depend on whether Rare can be useful or not. If they can produce a killer app with Xbox2, and third party support is as good as Xbox, they'll have a profitable model.

 

[FitzOfRage]

MS didn't owe anything to Take 2 after they bought out Bungie, due to the fact that Take 2 walked away with the Myth and Oni franchises along with some cash. Of course, we all know who got the better end of THAT deal in the end.

Take 2 still had the rights to license the Halo engine for a couple of games.