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[FitzOfRage]

Yes, you must have misunderstood what I wrote, because if TT signed a deal that doesn't even freeze EA out if EA can just find another publisher, it would be be a much cheaper deal, quite simply. Any deal where EA is basically cut out will obviously be much more expensive; I don't think anyone's debating that point.

I don't think I misunderstood, maybe I didn't make myself clear in that post. I just don't know how much romm they had to low ball, knowing EA is also going after the license, and given the licenses they've already missed out on.


I'll quote myself from my other post....

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I think it depends whether Take 2's bigger concern was keeping EA out of the game, or keeping themselves in the game.

Imagine if Take 2 had a chance to go back last year and sign a deal with the NFL that would give Take 2 3rd party exclusivity for 7 years, but included the possibility for EA to continue producing NFL games with 1st party partners.

Knowing what we know now, I think Take 2 would take that deal in a heartbeat, even at a premium, because it would at least keep themselves in the game.

So that's the situation they may see here now. They may have signed this deal knowing there was a work around for EA (which at least involves EA cutting in 3 other companies if they want to reach all consoles), but thinking it was worth it to be able to have at least some sort of base to launch a credible sports lineup next year.

 

[jarrod]

The first party exception is more of a stab at how EA out and out kicked everyone else out of the football genre as best they could, while T2 is playing the "good guy" role to the 1st parties, letting them keep their licenses, no matter how irrelevant they might actually be.

I have a feeling it might have less to do with "good guy" Take 2 and more to do with Nintendo owning the Mariners...

Let's check out the LTD sales for both...

*snip*

I guess that counts as a "majority", but don't try to make it sound like Madden had 80-90% of the market.

To bad you left out the Collector's Edition on PS2 (another 500k of sales iirc), not to mention all the other platforms (GC, DS, GBA, PC, etc). 80% isn't too off the mark for Madden when you're including all SKUs and avoiding selective comparisons.

 

[AstroLad]

I don't think I misunderstood, maybe I didn't make myself clear in that post. I just don't know how much romm they had to low ball, knowing EA is also going after the license, and given the licenses they've already missed out on.


I'll quote myself from my other post....

------------------------
I think it depends whether Take 2's bigger concern was keeping EA out of the game, or keeping themselves in the game.

Imagine if Take 2 had a chance to go back last year and sign a deal with the NFL that would give Take 2 3rd party exclusivity for 7 years, but included the possibility for EA to continue producing NFL games with 1st party partners.

Knowing what we know now, I think Take 2 would take that deal in a heartbeat, even at a premium, because it would at least keep themselves in the game.

So that's the situation they may see here now. They may have signed this deal knowing there was a work around for EA (which at least involves EA cutting in 3 other companies if they want to reach all consoles), but thinking it was worth it to be able to have at least some sort of base to launch a credible sports lineup next year.

Right, right. I see where our miscommunication is here. In that case TT could have just signed a regular licensing deal. What you're talking about, essentially, is the value of a non-exclusive licensing deal to "stay in the game" at all. What I was trying to speak to was the marginal value of the exclusivity feature (apart from the license itself) of a license that really doesn't exclude anyone who can get around it through what is in many ways a formality. I just don't think TT would pay huge sums over a regular deal for a clause that would be little more than a minor headache for EA and may not even wind up benefitting TT at all. For TT that means excluding its biggest competitor vs. just giving it a small headache in finding a publisher (with little of the advantage gleaned from that actually going to TT).

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Let's check out the LTD sales for both...
PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 ELECTRONIC ARTS 2,850,065
XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 ELECTRONIC ARTS 1,076,975
Total Madden 2005: 3,927,040

PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) 1,534,196
XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) 1,098,197
Total NFL2K5: 2,632,393

Total (Both): 6,559,433
Madden: 60%
NFL2K5: 40%

I guess that counts as a "majority", but don't try to make it sound like Madden had 80-90% of the market.

Does the PS2 number include the limited edition?

edit- nevermind. I didn't see jarrod's post.

 

[DarienA]

jinx I'd love to help you... but answer those questions would just make things TOO easy.... don't you like the air of mystery in wondering where I REALLY stand? I paint one picture... I paint another... I paint one picture.. I paint another.

Seriously EA's moves are smart business moves that have the potential for stunting the growth fo various genres. The craziest part is... we probably won't find out until some time in the next generation because I'd expect EA and Take Two to make sure that the FIRST exclusive title of each of their genre's is top notch in an attempt to justify the deal while its still 'hot'.

 

[AstroLad]

jinx I'd love to help you... but answer those questions would just make things TOO easy.... don't you like the air of mystery in wondering where I REALLY stand? I paint one picture... I paint another... I paint one picture.. I paint another.

Seriously EA's moves are smart business moves that have the potential for stunting the growth fo various genres. The craziest part is... we probably won't find out until some time in the next generation because I'd expect EA and Take Two to make sure that the FIRST exclusive title of each of their genre's is top notch in an attempt to justify the deal while its still 'hot'.

Those are all very good points.

 

[FitzOfRage]

I see, makes sense. But it still seems like Take 2 is putting an awful lot of eggs in one basket. It seems like they're putting the cart way ahead of the horse if they haven't officially acquired VC. I still don't understand why Take 2 just doesn't throw up their hands and leave VC and Sega to rot. This is quite a battle they are willing to wage.

Take 2 has been making a series of sports related acquisitions. They bought Venom (makers of the Rocky boxing games), they bought Indie (makers of Top Spin, Amped and Links. They also bought the rights to those games most importantly), and they have the option to buy the bulk of Sega's Sports with Visual Concepts and Kush games. They're definitely trying to position themselves for a full on battle with EA.


They certainly can throw up their hands, but for a company that has been pretty clear about their desire to diversify their lineup by moving into sports (and has already put their money where their mouth is), I don't know how they could pass up VC.

I'm not sure who they would be leaving to rot, because Sega definitely wants out, so I think there's a good chance that if Take 2 passes on their option to buy, the shit is really going to hit the fan, because it opens the door for a sale to EA.


The thing about Take 2 is that their eggs are already in one basket. It's debatable how long GTA's popularity will last, but there's no question that the company pretty much revolves around the franchise. If you took away any single game from EA last year, they would still be the #1 3rd party, but of course take away 1 particular game, and Take 2's market share shifts dramatically.

 

[Dilbert]

jinx I'd love to help you... but answer those questions would just make things TOO easy.... don't you like the air of mystery in wondering where I REALLY stand? I paint one picture... I paint another... I paint one picture.. I paint another.

Well, to be honest...no, I don't like the "air of mystery." Since you're clearly not going to answer the questions, there isn't much I can do.

 

[Alex Anderson]

Nintendo owning the Mariners has jack shit to do with any of this. MLB and MLBPA are completely separate entities.

 

[border]

I don't think there's really an "air of mystery" about where the forum's bigger EA apologists stand....

 

[JayFro]

This is crazy! I'm glad though that T2 gave EA a decent size shot to the nuts. After EA undercut them with the ESPN deal and of course the NFL/AFL deal. I hope T2 gets exclusive rights for the NBA now, NBA games sell better than baseball games in North America.

 

[sonycowboy]

4) *Speculation*MVP is going to become exclusive for Sony consoles/portable. EA + Sony has worked in the past so I'm sure they can work together on getting MVP out.

This deal is strange though. What stops EA from getting a copublished deal? Although I'm sure Take Two can use GTA as leverage for those companies who might want to copublish a MVP game. Shhiiiit MVP exclusive for Revolution?!?!

I've been wondering about this. EA clearly is going to talk to both Sony & Microsoft and they have the clout to make things happen, but I hadn't thought about GTA being used on the other side.

These are the two most important American publishers (apologies to Activision) to the console manufacturers and you really can't afford to piss either of them off. I'm sure that Sony and Microsoft are running every permutation there is to see who they should placate.



This next generation is getting to get bloody fast. Trust no one!

 

[Drek]

I have a feeling it might have less to do with "good guy" Take 2 and more to do with Nintendo owning the Mariners...

1. this is the player's union license, not the MLB teams license, Nintendo has nothing to do with it. 2. Nintendo doesn't have any real pull in baseball outside of their one vote out of all the teams. They don't have guys chairing any committees, they don't have a long standing record of ownership (just recently became majority owners), and aren't in charge of one of the "big money" teams (i.e. Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Mets).

To top it all off, MLB is still somewhat of a good ol' boys institution, Nintendo and Yamauchi really had to bend over backwards just to get approval from the other owners to buy a stake in the Mariners, and they were one of the few legitimate bidders.

Take 2 more than likely did it because 1. it lets them portrait EA in a bad light 2. has very little impact on their bottom line and 3. they could well have a backdoor deal with all the 1st parties to have made that excemption in exchange for reduced (free?) royalties on their own baseball titles.

 

[mightynine]

So this, basically, is Madden Football 64 all over again?

 

[teruterubozu]

Well I guess that answers my question:

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=33147

Sega just sold VC to Take 2

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

To top it all off, MLB is still somewhat of a good ol' boys institution, Nintendo and Yamauchi really had to bend over backwards just to get approval from the other owners to buy a stake in the Mariners, and they were one of the few legitimate bidders.

WRONG! Yamauchi stepped in because as a goodwill gesture, he opted to put money in them because since NOA headquarters are in Washington and the Mariners were looking to move out of the state. That is how Nintendo came to play with MLB

 

[Musashi Wins!]

well, this sucks because hands down EA's baseball game kicked the ever loving shit out of Sega's piece of shit baseball game (tho Sega's hockey game returned the favor in spades!)

guess i can still hope that Microsoft uses all that High Heat talent though.

I'm a little sick of how High Heat is the high water mark for baseball elitists...but they never bring up the two MAJOR bugs in MVP. I'm not going to bring up those bugs again, or belabor the point too much, just say that maybe those ranking HH so highly as a sim engine are working more on common parlance than high standards.

And I find EA as offensive as the next game geek (though I'm sorry their football game is better) but maybe certain parties are being a little insensitive about comparing EA to Hitler and the Nazi's. I hate PC bullshit too, but it's a bit much.

 

[UbiSoftologist]

Take 2 has been making a series of sports related acquisitions... They're definitely trying to position themselves for a full on battle with EA.

I think T2's goal is not to dethrone EA in the sports game market. They just want to steal a slice of the pie from EA (probably 20-30% of the sports market).

I'm not sure who they would be leaving to rot, because Sega definitely wants out, so I think there's a good chance that if Take 2 passes on their option to buy, the shit is really going to hit the fan, because it opens the door for a sale to EA.

Good point. EA would be an invincible player in the sports arena if it owned VC.

The thing about Take 2 is that their eggs are already in one basket. It's debatable how long GTA's popularity will last, but there's no question that the company pretty much revolves around the franchise. If you took away any single game from EA last year, they would still be the #1 3rd party, but of course take away 1 particular game, and Take 2's market share shifts dramatically.

I hope that T2 doesn't forget the importance of Max Payne and Mafia while competing with EA. If I were in the driver's seat of T2, I would spend resources on developing quality GTA-clones instead of wasting energy to challenge EA. Take a look at True Crime and Mercenaries: they have been selling like hot cakes. I don't know why T2 has failed to exploit its ''GTA formula.''