UbiSoftologist
Member
Argyle said:EA: "Say, anyone want to copublish our baseball game?"
This might explain why Jeff Brown said that the deal was pricey for T2.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Take Two Signs 7-Year Agreement with MLB
- Thread starter mj1108
- Start date
This might explain why Jeff Brown said that the deal was pricey for T2.
Argyle said:This is what I was thinking.
EA: "Say, anyone want to copublish our baseball game?"
I wonder. I'm thinking TT probably thought of this though since it's pretty obvious, comedy of TT being FOILED AGAIN! by EA nothwithstanding.
I'm pretty sure he said this because he's a spokesman for EA, what is he gonna say, "wow, TT got a great deal! Wish we had thought of it, because this is going to work out splendidly for them."
The parallel comment from a TT spokesperson on the EA NFL acquisition would have been "we're fucked, we're totally fucked" I suppose.
FitzOfRage
Member
Well let's be honest, all sports are not created equal in terms of sales, so locking up the MLB player's union is not exactly the same kind of blow as locking up the NFL and NFLPA. If anything, this is Take 2's supply of H2O.
I'm guessing the reason hardware makers aren't covered is because of Nintendo's role as a baseball owner.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
stale ass SPORTS games? what exclusive rights does EA have right now in the sports genre? that's right, football. and what football game did the majority of videogame buyers purchase even though it was more than double the price last year? thats right, madden. before you call something a "stale ass sports game", you might want to actually play it without your VC goggles on. you will find that madden is the best football game on the market.
that is true. it's a shame too because MVP baseball is highly superior to VC's game. oh well, i guess we can enjoy MVP this year and hope for the best in the future
on the plus side i think i like high heat as much as MVP, so hopefully MS has HH ready for xbox 2 launch (snowballs chance in hell):lol mmmm mmmmmm ea kool aid! tastes like a champion! i'm not kissing EA's ass, but there is too much EA hate at this board. everyone bitches and whines about every little thing regarding EA, so i have to make sure the board isn't completely biased against EA.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
The NFL license is obviously a big thing, which I'm sure you know, and much of the "outrage" has stemmed from that; I can pretty much guarantee very few people would have cared about the ESPN deal were it not for the NFL deal prior.
As far as the other stuff, like the ESPN license, it's almost just kind of icing on the cake; I think there are two camps on this, those that think, "man it sucks that EA bought up the NFL license, and now this, this is just crazy!" and those that will overreact to "smaller" news. Also, a lot of the time when people post stuff like "EA is the devil!" etc. it's not really pure hatred for the company, just a joke (e.g. like someone who makes fun of Gates, Microsoft, but still uses Windows). I'd say there are maybe 5-10 people that really hate EA, and probably 100+ that are just thinking, "that's kind of fucked up!" about what EA's started.
You may think I fall into the former category since we usually wind up clashing on a few issues, but really I don't. I have 20 games w/ me in my NY place right now, and 4 of them are EA-published, but I'm still concerned about not just what licensing means for other companies that are largely excluded from the market as a result, but what it means to the company that gets the license and how competitive they will be from a quality, innovation, and pricing standpoint when they're reduced or eliminated their competition (which is why I was never interested in the VC vs. EA game quality sub-debates people on both sides seemed to get into sometimes, to me the matter is totally irrelevant); as a consumer of these games (both EA and non-EA), these kinds of things just bother me.
UbiSoftologist
Member
AstroLad said:
I was talking about Brown's rationale behind his comment on the deal being pricey, not about his motive as an EA spokesman:
WSJ said:
UbiSoftologist said:
And what I'm saying is he's going to talk shit about the deal any way he can, so I wouldn't put too much stock into what he says or try to read into things that aren't there since he gets paid big bucks to spin things his company's way. Now if an industry analyst or reporter comes out with more specific information on that point, then it will be worth noting.
On its face the Brown comment is saying that TT didn't buy total exclusivity, like EA did, so they got ripped off, not that EA is going to take advantage of some loophole almost anyone who thought about the deal for three minutes would come up with, even without any formal training in these types of contracts. If said loophole does exist, I'm fairly certain TT priced it in and basically paid very little for what would be a much less useful agreement.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i have confidence that EA will keep raising the bar for madden. thank about the following facts:
1. the madden videogame is almost like a national celebrity. there are specials on mtv about it, nfl players talk about it in preseason games on the sideline, there are big release parties, etc. they aren't going to dick up their flagship title
2. madden 2005 was arguably the most innovative madden yet. so much stuff was added (especially on the defensive side of the ball), that it's hard to criticize it's innovation. all of this came with basically NO competition. madden 2004 had outsold espn nfl 2k4 about 10 to 1 or some ridiculous ratio like that. that isn't competition, that is a slaughtering. i understand "a slaughtering is better than NO competition", and i agree, but that isn't the point. the point is if people are saying EA won't innovate or press forward because of no competition, they are mistaken. EA hadn't had true competition for years before sega took a chunk out of them this year.
3. madden fans are some of the most picky and bitchiest fans around. maddenwishlist.com, maddenmania.com, etc. all talk directly to EA, and there is no beating around the bush when they do interviews w/ EA about possibly problems. EA is going to put out a great product in the future because they know the hardcore fans wont put up with "roster updates" (as so many people like to claim each new madden is)
but yes i agree that not granting exclusive licenses is better for everyone, but thems the breaks
1. the madden videogame is almost like a national celebrity. there are specials on mtv about it, nfl players talk about it in preseason games on the sideline, there are big release parties, etc. they aren't going to dick up their flagship title
2. madden 2005 was arguably the most innovative madden yet. so much stuff was added (especially on the defensive side of the ball), that it's hard to criticize it's innovation. all of this came with basically NO competition. madden 2004 had outsold espn nfl 2k4 about 10 to 1 or some ridiculous ratio like that. that isn't competition, that is a slaughtering. i understand "a slaughtering is better than NO competition", and i agree, but that isn't the point. the point is if people are saying EA won't innovate or press forward because of no competition, they are mistaken. EA hadn't had true competition for years before sega took a chunk out of them this year.
3. madden fans are some of the most picky and bitchiest fans around. maddenwishlist.com, maddenmania.com, etc. all talk directly to EA, and there is no beating around the bush when they do interviews w/ EA about possibly problems. EA is going to put out a great product in the future because they know the hardcore fans wont put up with "roster updates" (as so many people like to claim each new madden is)
but yes i agree that not granting exclusive licenses is better for everyone, but thems the breaks
FitzOfRage
Member
It's hard to presume too much, since they weren't negotiating in a vacuum. According to the story, they had at least EA to contend with. Because the other thing they have to price in is the effect of sitting by while EA cuts them out of another license. So I don't think they had the luxury of offering "very little".
Basically I don't think Take 2 is in much of a position to be able to say "either give us total exclusivity, or you're getting peanuts, and you can find someone esle to deal with if you don't like it" because clearly there's someone else waiting in the wings.
Blackcherry
Member
that means sports game gonna be expensive right?
Hold your horses there bud. MVP was more enjoyable than VC's effort this year but thats the first time its happened in pretty much the life of both series. Also, while MVP's had serious issues (broken franchise mode, lack of realism), VC's game at least has a solid base to build upon, plus a very talented development team taking over (Kush). VC's baseball titles have much more upside.
I'm pretty sure the T2/Sega deal makes T2 the only company that can buy VC until the end of the deal. It could end this fall though when Sega obviously can't get an NFL license, which is a voidable clause in the contract. I'd imagine that'll just result in T2 using their buy option to get VC while their value is low (no NFL game = much lower valued sports developer).
Interesting move by T2 to get the players union. I'm sure they'll probably get the teams as well since MLB has seen how much Madden has done for the NFL's popularity and so will not want to deviate from the player's union. On top of that its now worth a lot more to T2, so they'll pay more than any other reasonable company (which EA is, don't see them outbidding T2 from spite, there's no money to be made by doing so). As for EA finding a work around with a 1st party or making their own console, I'd imagine, if T2 is smart, that they had it worded to be only the current 1st parties and its likely that they even restricted it to only 1st parties, i.e. no 2nd party involvement. That'd mean all in house development.
hypocrite
n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold [syn: dissembler, phony, phoney, pretender]
hyp·o·crite Audio pronunciation of "hypocrite" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hp-krt)
n.
A person given to hypocrisy.
hy·poc·ri·sy Audio pronunciation of "hypocrisy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
And the my d*ck is bigger than yours show continues!
n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold [syn: dissembler, phony, phoney, pretender]
hyp·o·crite Audio pronunciation of "hypocrite" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hp-krt)
n.
A person given to hypocrisy.
hy·poc·ri·sy Audio pronunciation of "hypocrisy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
And the my d*ck is bigger than yours show continues!
UbiSoftologist
Member
Drek said:
Thanks for the confirmation.
Drek said:
I agree. T2 should buy out VC when Sega doesn't have much bargaining power.
Hellraizah
Member
*orders Baseball Stars 2 for Neo Geo*
....
...
..
.
*still not giving a fuck about real players*
It's pretty funny that nowadays, sports gamers won't buy a game until it has REAL players and REAL teams. It truly shows how deep their mind is set about gameplay....
....
...
..
.
*still not giving a fuck about real players*
It's pretty funny that nowadays, sports gamers won't buy a game until it has REAL players and REAL teams. It truly shows how deep their mind is set about gameplay....
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Only 3rd party publishing rights? What's to stop EA from making their own baseball game but allowing Nintendo, Sony, and MS to publish them on their respective platforms? Then T2 will have spent all that money for nothing.
UbiSoftologist
Member
JC10001 said:
Drek had an interesting thought on the 3rd-party publishing rights:
Drek said:
teruterubozu
Member
Players Union only? Console manufacturers are still OK?
Sounds like a ton of legal loop holes for anyone who wants to challenge it.
Sounds like a ton of legal loop holes for anyone who wants to challenge it.
Amused_To_Death
Member
EA was intent on crushing all competition. They thought by signing the NFL/Players Inc. to an exclusive contract will dissuade Take-Two from entering into sports with Sega/VC. Well, when that didn't work, EA went after VC's brand, ESPN, and locked them up; again hoping VC/Take-Two would fold and go home. Now, they've opened a huge can of warms. They're being given a dose of their own medicine. If anything good can come out of this is that these companies will realize they're not going to drive each other out of business, kiss and make up, and sub-license to each others. Watch EA now buy out Take-Two straight out. That would have been cheaper; they could have acquired VC and GTA for less money than they paid for NFL and ESPN.
worldrunover
Member
Phoenix said:
Don't kid yourself. It was EA's doing.
This is very bad, especially if someone else gets the MLB license. Did you know that MLB.com couldn't even use players names until a few weeks ago, because the union had their own website? Those two sides hate each other, I'm sure MLB will find a way to screw this all up.
Phoenix said:
No, no.. EA did it... EA kept pressuring and pressuring the NFL for a deal... EA kept making offers and finally the NFL just couldn't take it anymore and caved in....
that's how it happened... really... I SWEAR...
EDIT:
Oh god how ironic... in the time it took me to put up my sarcastic response... somebody said it... and meant it....
This is so retarded. 
But don't blame EA or TT. They're just exploiting the system. Blame the NFL for allowing this dangerous precedent to be set. If they knew what was good for them, they'd keep the licenses open for competition to thrive. Instead, they allowed the exclusive deal with the bigget 3rd party around. Now it's like an arms race, everyone else needs to secure a piece of the pie. If TT didn't do it, someone else would have tried. And it would be worse if EA got this deal. I can only hope EA doesn't get the NBA...or that the NBA's smart enough to allow multiple compannies to make NBA games. Something's gotta give, right? If/when Madden sucks, I hope no one buys it and it causes all kinds of hell for EA and the US gaming market. I think someone's gonna need to suffer for this madness to stop. PEACE.
But don't blame EA or TT. They're just exploiting the system. Blame the NFL for allowing this dangerous precedent to be set. If they knew what was good for them, they'd keep the licenses open for competition to thrive. Instead, they allowed the exclusive deal with the bigget 3rd party around. Now it's like an arms race, everyone else needs to secure a piece of the pie. If TT didn't do it, someone else would have tried. And it would be worse if EA got this deal. I can only hope EA doesn't get the NBA...or that the NBA's smart enough to allow multiple compannies to make NBA games. Something's gotta give, right? If/when Madden sucks, I hope no one buys it and it causes all kinds of hell for EA and the US gaming market. I think someone's gonna need to suffer for this madness to stop. PEACE.worldrunover
Member
DarienA said:
Why would the NFL care? They don't. It doesn't affect their business in any way, AT ALL. The only thing they get out of it is MONEY.
EA on the other hand, as a videogame developer has an obligation to their profession and market to not make the type of business decisions that are just going to hinder competition and only hurt the consumer in the long run. And for what? A few extra bucks? Did 2K5 really take that big of a chunk out of Madden's empire? Doubtful. It was a spite move that the NFL could care LESS about doing or not doing. It's not their fault.
I don't hate EA and I don't like saying things like this, but God you EA bitches are too much sometimes.
The Faceless Master
Member
ok, now this is getting really bad...
i don't play baseball games, but from what i gathered from people that did, EA's game was better...
sports games are just getting more and more doomed...
Edit: also, does this mean that there will be no baseball on Gamecube?
i don't play baseball games, but from what i gathered from people that did, EA's game was better...
sports games are just getting more and more doomed...
Edit: also, does this mean that there will be no baseball on Gamecube?
worldrunover said:
The sentence I bolded.... your first sentence.... that's the problem.... maybe YOU think is their obligation(and maybe it should be)... but the reality is that EA's first obligation is to their shareholders... and said shareholders don't want to see EA losing any marketshare.
BTW I notice no one has succesfully explained how EA FORCED the NFL to accept an exclusive deal.... The NFL in past years has said no, that much is obvious... so what changed? OMG EA GOT A BIGGER STICK!!!!
And you whining haterz are incredibly amusing... keep up the good work.
EDIT:
worldrunover said:
So? EA or any company in any industry should instead WAIT until there IS a noticeable decline in their marketshare of whatever product they are pushing before they act?
worldrunover
Member
EA is the largest videogame developer in the WORLD. There is not even a hint of that declining anytime soon. This deal would not have made or broke them either way.
Taller money hats? You can't expect the NFL to not have a price, based on some kind of "principle" you think THEY should have over a market they couldn't give a SHIT about.
Taller money hats? You can't expect the NFL to not have a price, based on some kind of "principle" you think THEY should have over a market they couldn't give a SHIT about.
Amused_To_Death
Member
DarienA said:
Let's assume it was the NFL that started all of this, EA got the exclusive, people got pissed but life went on...Madden already had 80% of the market; I guess they wanted 100%...
But how can you explain the reason behing EA taking ESPN away from VC? EA wanted to crush VC out of business. This was not just about the NFL wanting an exclusive and EA stepping up, this was an EA strategy to dominate sports. At least Take-Two didn't try to lockout the console makers out of Baseball, but EA did with the NFL deal.
Amused_To_Death said:
The console maker lockout piece done by VC is interesting.... however it doesn't change the fact that both 3rd parties locked each other out.
There seems to be a misconception here... I didn't say what EA did was right, I simply gave an explanation as to why they were doing what they did... I don't think exclusive contracts are a good idea in ANY genre. And as for crushing the competition... yeah lots of #1's try to do that in the industry's they lead in.
When do these various deals go in to effect anyway?
Confirmation of the agreement from the Major League Baseball Players Association
I wonder if the amount of money talked about is dependent on T2 signing the MLB as well. It seems a very strange and expensive deal otherwise.
I wonder if the amount of money talked about is dependent on T2 signing the MLB as well. It seems a very strange and expensive deal otherwise.
Warm Machine
Member
Well, the more realistic the graphics get the more important the players become. Recognizing their faces will become more important next gen in terms of immersion. Having EA make up player faces that somewhat resemble the real guys is getting into a legal grey area.
Azih said:
Eh. People on a whole are stupid. The reality is most company's in the #1 position will be as ruthless as they feel they need to be to maintain that position... some of it you'll like, some of it you won't... that's called real life and you'll see that in pretty much every industry on the face of this planet.