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[Topher]

Both Xbox and PlayStation consoles have had exclusive hardware that sets them apart from regular PCs. Hence, developing games for these different ecosystems has always been a pain for studios over the years, but Sony may finally have a solution for this dilemma.

We have found multiple new patents published by Sony that aim to simplify how games are developed for consoles while preserving their proprietary nature in the process. Sony wants to convert the traditional devkits into small PCIe cards that serve the same purpose.

The company proposes PCIe cards with core console hardware to replace scarce devkits for game development. These PCIe cards can fit into regular PCs and servers to convert them into devkits instead.

Why it matters: Sony aims to preserve the exclusive nature of its console while making it easier for developers to create games for it. So, studios could soon utilize a PCIe card that can replace the traditional, bulky devkits currently in use.

The patent, dubbed 'GAME CONSOLE ENDPOINT MANAGEMENT BRIDGE FOR LOCAL SYSTEM GAME DEVELOPMENT,' also talks about using a special chip called the endpoint management bridge to manage communication between a host PC or server and the PCIe card.

Sony argues that console exclusivity complicates game development, and specialized devkits aren't easily adapted for cloud use. So, it proposes using these console PCIe cards instead.

These PCIe cards can be used to create efficient devkit servers that can be accessed remotely over the internet or serve as local workstations for direct console game development.

New Sony Patent Aims To Simplify Console Game Development Without Devkits

Sony has published a new patent that aims to replace traditional devkits with a regular PCIe card that can be plugged into a regular PC.

tech4gamers.com

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No more wild looking dev kits?

 

[bender]

 

[yogaflame]

I hate Sony's stupid decisions this generation but I admit this is impressive and will revolutionize gaming development.

 

[Kuranghi]

What parts of the "console" are not on the PCI card? I take it this is using the GPU and CPU of the system its installed in?

 

[Topher]

What parts of the "console" are not on the PCI card? I take it this is using the GPU and CPU of the system its installed in?

The CPU and GPU are combined in the APU. I think it has everything it needs to run debug code as if it was a dev kit.

 

[bender]

What parts of the "console" are not on the PCI card? I take it this is using the GPU and CPU of the system its installed in?

The love and secret sauce.

 

[cormack12]

So stupid question, can they not produce OEM 'PS5' cards, so your PC can emulate a PS5 completely? Leveraging and isolating the necessary compute and GPU? Which also locks you into PSN....

 

[clarky]

Wait till they hear about my idea of simplyfying gaming without consoles.

 

[Fafalada]

No more wild looking dev kits?

Not gonna lie, the wild dev kits are some of my fondest memories of gamedev.

Ps2 early kit that looked like a giant modem/switch was particularly awesome.
And it ran at 200mhz so I knew it'd be 30% faster when I switched to final.

That said I also dunno how well pci cards will scale with unfinished hardware or 500W APUs.
I suppose it's less of a concern since they stopped making custom chips.. but still.

What parts of the "console" are not on the PCI card? I take it this is using the GPU and CPU of the system its installed in?

No, this would be a complete system on a pcb. I suppose console "blade" is more accurate than a "card".

 

[Bitstream]

Not gonna lie, the wild dev kits are some of my fondest memories of gamedev.

Same here, the early leaks and mystery around whether or not it's real, then the hype build between the final unveiling of the console is a rite of passage!

 

[cormack12]

Not gonna lie, the wild dev kits are some of my fondest memories of gamedev.

Ps2 early kit that looked like a giant modem/switch was particularly awesome.
And it ran at 200mhz so I knew it'd be 30% faster when I switched to final.

That said I also dunno how well pci cards will scale with unfinished hardware or 500W APUs.
I suppose it's less of a concern since they stopped making custom chips.. but still.


No, this would be a complete system on a pcb. I suppose console "blade" is more accurate than a "card".

Wow, PTSD memories unlocked of working with HP Blades and their wonderful chassis firmware upgrades

 

[willothedog]

So the next PlayStation is just an add-in card for a PC.

 

[Kuranghi]

The CPU and GPU are combined in the APU. I think it has everything it needs to run debug code as if it was a dev kit.

No, this would be a complete system on a pcb. I suppose console "blade" is more accurate than a "card".

Got it, thanks for the swift replies guys.

I just figured it couldn't be miniaturised that much but I suppose a massive bulk of the console itself is the case/cooling system and power supply.

 

[bender]

Wow, PTSD memories unlocked of working with HP Blades and their wonderful chassis firmware upgrades

c7000?

 

[cormack12]

c7000?

 

[R3TRO]

That sounds pretty cool.

 

[omegasc]

So the next PlayStation is just an add-in card for a PC.

Google 3DO Blaster

 

[bender]

At least it wasn't p-class.

 

[Clear]

I really respect the pivot towards easing development Sony have made under Cerny's stewardship. I appreciate that this aspect isn't really the concern of end-users, but its a very big deal for devs in terms of quality-of-life.

 

[yogaflame]

I really respect the pivot towards easing development Sony have made under Cerny's stewardship. I appreciate that this aspect isn't really the concern of end-users, but its a very big deal for devs in terms of quality-of-life.

Will make games development cheaper, easier and faster. Hopefully back to the good old days of Ps1 on ease of game development and bringing back AA and A games.

 

[ReBurn]

So the next PlayStation is just an add-in card for a PC.

When can I buy one?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

well, can the sell those "cards" and make your PC a Play Station?

 

[Kataploom]

Isn't every Xbox a dev kit since last gen?

 

[kevboard]

Isn't every Xbox a dev kit since last gen?

yes, but it's meant for indy devs not AA or AAA.

you can use an Xbox One or Series X|S as a dev kit, but it has limitations that a real dev kit doesn't have.

 

[Topher]

Isn't every Xbox a dev kit since last gen?

Isn't this card an Xbox as well?

 

[Durin]

Makes sense to me, especially given how less bespoke the hardware is given the move to x86 AMD APUs since the PS4 era, and it could potentially reduce the barrier to entry for indie teams.

 

[yogaflame]

This gives hope that PS Japan studio comeback for AA and A games exclusives.

 

[Ozzie666]

Google 3DO Blaster

This exactly. Would be pretty interesting.

 

[yurinka]

Good idea, but would be even better to allow you to program in a normal PC with no special hardware required and to use a normal retail console to test the games, like in Xbox.

This gives hope that PS Japan studio comeback for AA and A games exclusives.

They did an awesome job with Astro Bot, Stellar Blade and Death Stranding 2, I don't see why they would need a comeback.

well, can the sell those "cards" and make your PC a Play Station?

Woulnd't make sense since you can buy a PS5 with the missing stuff to have the same not needing as player to pay the rest of the PC.

well, can the sell those "cards" and make your PC a Play Station?

No, because the I/O of the PC sucks compared to PS5 and misses stuff like how data gets compressed and decompressed by hardware from the (not included in the card) SSD etc.

This is just to compile and debug games, not to run them at full performance like in a retail console. To test the games under development there's a different device: the testkit.

So stupid question, can they not produce OEM 'PS5' cards, so your PC can emulate a PS5 completely? Leveraging and isolating the necessary compute and GPU? Which also locks you into PSN....

PCs aren't powerful enough to emulate PS5, particularly their I/O part. What this card does is basically to put almost the entire PS5 (devkit) hardware in a PCIe card to reduce the cost and have a faster connection than the current method, which is to have it in a separated dedicated device and connect from the PC to it via LAN.

With this card they directly connect the devkit inside the PC, or to another server the company pretty likely already has (like to handle the studio's intranet, backups, etc). Normally devkits were placed in the server room/rack.

Depends on the console, but devkits often are ugly bulky motherfuckers that inside are basically like a retail console but with extra memory and some extra debug buttons, ports or displays and using a different OS/firmware. Plus are way more expensive than a retail console because fuck the indies.

 

[Magic Carpet]

This sounds more like GeForce Now but for game development.

 

[PlayStaytion]

I hate Sony's stupid decisions this generation but I admit this is impressive and will revolutionize gaming development.

There are many resignations from top executives to bottom including industry veterans. Makes sense. A new leadership happens naturally.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Reasons 1 out of 1,000 I could never interview Mark Cerny would be because although I am quite a fan of his (and KK ) I would start by asking him about the bathtub memes:

 

[Panajev2001a]

Seriously though, this could be very useful / quite a big thing for devs to make it a lot cheaper to give DevKits to people and could lower the barrier to development of games…

Imagine if they sold it as a PS6 in a Card solution to play your PS6 games on PC on top of maybe acting as a normal GPU.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No, because the I/O of the PC sucks compared to PS5 and misses stuff like how data gets compressed and decompressed by hardware from the (not included in the card) SSD etc.

This card has the SSD controller and it would have the I/O HW unit which is inside the main SoC so it would not be a problem. It need to have that to function as a device kit properly.

 

[yurinka]

This card has the SSD controller and it would have the I/O HW unit which is inside the main SoC so it would not be a problem. It need to have that to function as a device kit properly.

As I said, the SSD isn't connected to this card, but instead to the PC's motherboard separatedly, which doesn't have the same I/O (reading and decompressing by hardware the SSD data, allocating it in memory, memory management) like a PS5.

Reason being an SSD is too big and heavy to put it in a card, and isn't needed to replicate the exact SSD behavior for what a devkit is used (which isn't the same than a retail console or testkit).

 

[Panajev2001a]

As I said, the SSD isn't connected to this card, but instead to the PC's motherboard separatedly, which doesn't have the same I/O (reading and decompressing by hardware the SSD data, allocating it in memory, memory management) like a PS5.

Reason being an SSD is too big and heavy to put it in a card, and isn't needed to replicate the exact SSD behavior for what a devkit is used (which isn't the same than a retail console or testkit).

The I/O complex is not in the SSD, but it is part of the "APU" box there (the main custom chip as in the original diagrams).

As long as the PCI bus can deliver 5+ GB/s RAW (more for PS6) you are fine.

Not to talk about the "local SSD" and RAM buffer too… and the SSD controller on the card. Think how the secondary expansion slot works in PS5 and replace that with a fast PCIE bus.

The custom SSD controller and the I/O complex with all the features you were listing are respectively in this card and inside the APU. I do not see the problem you are raising .

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

But yurinka kept saying all this time that console games are made on PCs and Windows, even all the PlayStation and Nintendo ones!

Seriously though, this could be very useful / quite a big thing for devs to make it a lot cheaper to give DevKits to people and could lower the barrier to development of games…

Imagine if they sold it as a PS6 in a Card solution to play your PS6 games on PC on top of maybe acting as a normal GPU.

It actually reminds me of what companies like NEC did back in the '90s, where they had PC-FX development boards you could install in DOS/V compatible PCs (including PC-9821, naturally). Tho they made two versions; one for their own C-bus and another for a standard interface (maybe PCI), I can't remember.

Neat idea, and that one even had the 3D graphics chip onboard that should've been in the actual console.

Google 3DO Blaster

I don't think you were actually able to use that as a development kit, IIRC. Could be misremembering, but 3DO Blaster (and Diamond Edge NV1, which was basically a Saturn on a PCI card) were for playing compatible games on a PC, not software dev.