Support NeoGAF

[isamu]

My knowledge on this subject is limited so bare with me.

Anyway I was playing my GBASP at work for like 6 hours straight and started to notice how I don't really like the kind of screen it uses. It gives off too much of a glare and the backlight doesn't really brighten the screen that much beyond what is already there without it.

Can you guys describe what is different about the GBASP's screen than the other screens used on the Gamegear, Turbo Graphix 16, LYNX, etc? I mean, why isn't it as bright as those portables? Why do I still have to keep tilting it a certain way just to get it at the right brightness? Why do I still have as much of a hard time seeing certain objects and sprites as I did on the regular Gameboy Color? Why were games so much brighter and more clearer on my Sega Nomad and GameGear?

Does it have to do with the the kind of material the screen is made out of or more to do with kind of backlight it uses? It appears the SP's screen wasn't built strictly as a bright, backlit LCD screen from the ground up, and was compromised to allow you to see it in daylight without the backlit. Is this a fair assesment?

Is the DS going to use this kind of screen also? Or can we expect to see a true "built from the ground up" LCD backlit screen?

 

[TekunoRobby]

It gives off too much of a glare and the backlight doesn't really brighten the screen that much beyond what is already there without it.

It's not backlit it's frontlit. The DS is backlit however and from initial playtests it's beautiful compared to the SP.

Reason being: The LCDs for the GBA were never intended to be backlit and as such have a much higher reflective coating in order to work properly with external light. The original LCD was designed to be used outdoors so the LCDs are most effective with sunlight. Instead of creating a whole new LCD screen Nintendo just took the original and designed an effective backlit system where the lights would shine across the actual LCD screen from the bottom to provide enough light (the screen, not the LCD, also has a different coating to reduce glare). Also due to battery constraints the lights aren't optimal and give a blueish hue.

EDIT: I'm not 100% positive on the details but it's a semi-accurate explanation.

 

[Matt]

It's frontlit, not backlit.

 

[Drinky Crow]

warning: complete idiot

*cough*

 

[Sho Nuff]

I believe the Nomad is passive matrix?

 

[TekunoRobby]

I believe the Nomad is passive matrix?

Yes sir. 3 inches of passive matrix.

Screen Resolution: 320x244
Max Colors on screen: 61 (512 available)
Max Sprites: 80, 20 per scanline

http://www.vidgame.net/SEGA/NOMAD.html

 

[isamu]

It's not backlit it's frontlit. The DS is backlit however and from initial playtests it's beautiful compared to the SP.

Reason being: The LCDs for the GBA were never intended to be backlit and as such have a much higher reflective coating in order to work properly with external light. The original LCD was designed to be used outdoors so the LCDs are most effective with sunlight. Instead of creating a whole new LCD screen Nintendo just took the original and designed an effective backlit system where the lights would shit across the actual LCD screen from the bottom to provide enough light (the screen, not the LCD, also has a different coating to reduce glare). Also due to battery constraints the lights aren't optimal and give a blueish hue.

EDIT: I'm not 100% positive on the details but it's a semi-accurate explanation.

Oh I understand. Thanks for that explanation Tekuno.

 

[Synbios459]

Speaking of the Nomad, what exactly caused that "blur" whenever something on the screen moved?

 

[TekunoRobby]

Speaking of the Nomad, what exactly caused that "blur" whenever something on the screen moved?

Well....

The blunt answer is, they don't redraw quickly enough to keep up with the typical action in a videogame.

The detailed answer:
In a Passive Matrix LCD the pixels are turned on/off using brief pulses of electric charge. To change the image (update it), a power signal has to be sent to the correct intersection in the matrix. These LCDs suffer from a slow response time of about hundreds of milliseconds. This is why there is a considerable amount of blurring (ghosting) when the image changes rapidly, which sadly is quite typical in videogames. Now compared to an active matrix LCD where the response time is typically below 50 milliseconds you'll notice there is less blurring and the image is much sharper.

Sources for more detailed analysis:
http://www.computerwriter.com/Star/2000/oct/cw1-0500 - mailbag - LCD monitors.htm
http://lsn.curtin.edu.au/tlf/tlf1995/burton.html

EDIT: I meant "the lights would shine across the actual LCD" not "shit across" hee hee. Glad I could help isamu!

 

[isamu]

Well....

The blunt answer is, they don't redraw quickly enough to keep up with the typical action in a videogame.

The detailed answer:
In a Passive Matrix LCD the pixels are turned on/off using brief pulses of electric charge. To change the image (update it), a power signal has to be sent to the correct intersection in the matrix. These LCDs suffer from a slow response time of about hundreds of milliseconds. This is why there is a considerable amount of blurring (ghosting) when the image changes rapidly, which sadly is quite typical in videogames. Now compared to an active matrix LCD where the response time is typically below 50 milliseconds you'll notice there is less blurring and the image is much sharper.

Sources for more detailed analysis:
http://www.computerwriter.com/Star/2000/oct/cw1-0500 - mailbag - LCD monitors.htm
http://lsn.curtin.edu.au/tlf/tlf1995/burton.html

EDIT: I meant "the lights would shine across the actual LCD" not "shit across" hee hee. Glad I could help isamu!

Yeah, I can't wait to read impressions of how good/clear the DS screen is.

 

[Warm Machine]

I believe the Nomad used a process known a blur-o-vision.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Also used by the Wonder Swan Color Runs Together.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

the backlight doesn't really brighten the screen that much beyond what is already there without it.

You must not play in many poorly lit or dark areas.

 

[Grubdog]

It gives off too much of a glare and the backlight doesn't really brighten the screen that much beyond what is already there without it.

I find it the opposite, sometimes its even too bright..

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

the backlight doesn't really brighten the screen that much beyond what is already there without it.

Uh, yeah it really does.

You must not play in many poorly lit or dark areas.

Isamu's home:

 

[Joeholley]

Also used by the Wonder Swan Color Runs Together.

And the Crystal uses the same tech as the GBA right? That's why it has the clear colors and severe darkness :/

 

[TekunoRobby]

And the Crystal uses the same tech as the GBA right? That's why it has the clear colors and severe darkness :/

Wonderswan Color:
2.8" FSTN type reflective LCD
FSTN screens are often called passive matrix LCDs.

Wonderswan Crystal:
2.8" TFT LCD
TFT (thin film transistor) screens are often called active matrix LCDs. Yep, same tech as the GBA.

If anyone is curious I found an excellent website explaining the basics of active matrix technology.
http://www.wtec.org/loyola/dsply_jp/c5_s2.htm

I also found off the Apple website a great comparison between Passive and Active matrix LCD screens.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=12958

Passive matrix (FSTN) displays utilize a grid of electronic control wires. A pixel is located at the junction of each row and column control lines, and just one transistor is used to address each row and one to address each column of pixels. This makes the FSTN display relatively cheaper than TFT technology, but residual electrical current that travels down each control line can cause crosstalk at unselected pixels, which lowers the display's overall contrast.

Active matrix (TFT) displays use a dedicated transistor for each pixel. Because of the many transistors, pixels can be turned on and off rapidly and accurately, and there is no crosstalk phenomenon. Understandably, TFT screens are also a lot more expensive to produce than FSTN displays.