Tecmo sues teh hackers

It says on "message boards" so they couldn't be warezing them (torrents maybe?). Probably nude patches.
 
Most likely copies of the game and/or patches. Not so hard when Xbox is the most PC-hack friendly console to date.

This might be bad for companies when the PC-like next gen consoles arrive - PS3 with Nvidia and Xbox / Nintendo with ATI.
 
pfffft

Eidos didn't hunt down anyone over the Tomb Raider titty patch, and that series is 10000x more successful than DOA.
 
Borys said:
It says on "message boards" so they couldn't be warezing them (torrents maybe?). Probably nude patches.
I think they are suing the ninjahacker forum guys. The site sure is down right now, and they definitely weren't making any money on all this, just having fun hacking the games. There were some very smart guys there.
For some reason I still fail to understand (why why why ?) I was drowned into the Teamxbox topic about this, and you have people actually wanting these guys to go to jail. Am I the only one thinking that going to jail because you provided some nude skins/alternate customes/tools for a game is quite a bit extreme ? Or is my perception of things really that bad ?
 
bishoptl said:
Team Xbox? Well there's your first mistake right there.
Yeah, I think somebody else took control of my body for a few minutes. And there I was, replying to some stupid guy on Teamxbox.
*hides in shame*
 
border said:
Is there any law that says they can't offer modded skins?

I belive they invoked the DMCA, so yes it would be illegal providing they are in the US. People in other countries would be exempt, or I should hope. Creating hacks involves breaking copy protection schemes which is a major DMCA no no. Sad but true. Fucking lame DMCA. Maybe the EFF will get involved. Doubt it tho, they have much bigger fish to fry.
 
I don't think it should be a crime for adding some extra life to yer games.

IMO this iz just like Sony suing the Bleemcast guys;[
 
guess that explains why ninjahacker closed down...

wonder if they're gonna go after xbox-saves.com too...

edit: quote from Xbox-Saves
Tecmo suing NinjaHacker.net - posted by TeamX4 on 2/9/05

Tecmo has recently filed a suit against the adminstrators of NinjaHacker.net. The popular site where many hackers discuss modifications to Ninja Gaiden and the Dead Or Alive series has been shut down. As a result, we have decided to remove any DOA files from our site that we feel may be mistakenly viewed as a violation to Tecmo's copyright. Who would have guessed the warning at the start of their games was legit? Our hearts are with you Ninjahacker.net.... we'll miss your nude hacks :(
 
bishoptl said:
pfffft

Eidos didn't hunt down anyone over the Tomb Raider titty patch, and that series is 10000x more successful than DOA.

If we're in 1997, sure.
 
This must be the ninjahacker guys. Those guys were incredibly clever, btw -- and they've been around for years.

I don't really see how what they were doing was illegal, even with all the 10 pages of legal crap that runs before a DOA game.
 
Distributing extra textures doesn't have anything to do with the DMCA, I don't think. I'm not entirely sure how it's illegal.
 
They're invoking the DMCA. Remember, reverse-engineering with the help of a mod chip is illegal now (in the States, anyway).
 
HAHAHHA

Oh come on Tecmo! The only reason anybody ever bought your bullshit DOA XBV game was to see titties and now youre taking that away.

Graphics aside, that has to be the worst game I've ever played in my life. F that, even WITH graphics it's the worst game ever made. Who can honestly look at cartoon titties for that long?
 
2&2 said:
The texture files were encrypted.
DOA3 had no protection

DOAXBV had a checksum, you had to patch your xbe with a 'load midified textures' fix

only in DOAU was there some sort of hashing in place...

and for DOAU skins, they didnt permit uploading of full files, just of .bos patches

(which IIRC was like PPF but with a checksum)

anyway, it doesn't matter much now... they're down and out it seems...
 
They could not be using the DMCA.

They arent making parody, they are using the TECMO IP to make derivative works. Even if you dont sell derivative works, unless you can make a case for their newsworthiness/parody value, then you have just misappropriated IP.
 
junkster said:
HAHAHHA

Oh come on Tecmo! The only reason anybody ever bought your bullshit DOA XBV game was to see titties and now youre taking that away.

Graphics aside, that has to be the worst game I've ever played in my life. F that, even WITH graphics it's the worst game ever made. Who can honestly look at cartoon titties for that long?

The answer may shock and disturb you.
 
tetsuoxb said:
They could not be using the DMCA.

They arent making parody, they are using the TECMO IP to make derivative works. Even if you dont sell derivative works, unless you can make a case for their newsworthiness/parody value, then you have just misappropriated IP.

Yup.

Finally someone with some sense posts in this thread.
 
Quoted from a member of slashdot:
This is one of the reasons I will never buy a console. Console games are geared to be throw-away games. i.e. You spend $50 on a FPS, and you are stuck with whatever maps the publisher sees fit to let you have. Even those games on the Xbox that have downloadable mods. Mods on Xbox live see: here [xbox.com] are limited to publisher produced material. This means that you will never see a candyland map for Uneal Championship, or the gigantic burger joint map for that matter.

I have a few hundred megs of Maps for games like Unreal Tournament, Doom 3, Red Faction, Starcraft, etc, etc, etc. that were created by fans. I have a friend who is really into Morrowind, which is over 3 years old, and mods that offer nudity, god mode, extra locations, extra equipment, skins, and anything else some fan has the imagination and inclination to produce. He has been playing this game off and on for 3 years... I'm still playing Neverwinter Nights.

And for the game companies: attack your customers at your peril... We don't care about IP, we don't care whether you are too puritanical for nude skins, or whatever. A new game is a toy to us that will be used as we see fit. If you want to clamp down, many people simply won't buy from you. I sure as hell won't. And furthermore this makes me feel like I have made the right decision in avoiding the console market altogether.

I agree on the points that companies have not lost their IP just because someone makes mods available (has never happened yet in the gaming industry), and I believe that modified IP only makes a game more enticing to a fan, garnering more sales and free marketing. I also believe the fact that these companies should take the id/epic route and let people do whatever the hell they want. As long as we're not talking about pirating, nobody's hurting anybody, and if you understand a damn thing about business and marketing you realize that as long as your game can stand on its own legs, these mods extend the life of your games and INCREASE sales. It's not like we don't know the difference between official and fan-made releases.

I hope this backfires on them and they become known as Titco.

EDIT: Let me make the distinction that I don't support people making full mods of ripped IP, like a Half-Life Total Conversion for Doom3 or something and making it public. A few graphic changes are not going to hurt anybody, DMCA broken or not.

Hell, when a mod DOES get too good for its own good, why not cut a licensing deal with the makers (pay em close to nothing), make a fortune, and step back and let the money roll in? (in this case I'm referring to things like the Chrono Trigger remake.)
 
You guys don't get it at all... (except GDJustin)

Let's say some unknowing mainstream media member comes to his nephews house and sees the nude patch running on a modded Xbox. TECMO would take all the shit, even though they didn't make it. The value of their characters and their brand would be ruined. The nude patches completely misappropriate the image of the characters, and makes Tecmo a huge target for all kinds of bad things.

Tecmo wouldn't be suing if the characters were skinned with something that isnt potentially damaging to the company, but they have a right and an obligation to defend their trademarks and intellectual property against potentially damaging derivative works. The first sale doctrine does not apply to creating derivative works. Hence why you can't claim to make the "grey album" from legally owned copies of Jay-Z's Black Album and The Beatles S/T white album. Same goes here.

You can't compare this to a PC, where people generally acknowledge the depth of user created content. A console is supposed to be a closed box, and those who don't realize would probably spread publicity on this assumption.... making Tecmo to be evil smut purveyors to children. DoA3 is rated Teen. They would get burned bad. Night Trap style.
 
I disagree.

Required:
3d modeling tools for the makers
Modchip
FTP network connection
patching
DVD burner or Large HD
internet access with access to a forum with titties on it

If "mom and dad" don't know "Timmy" has all this knowledge available to him, then they should keep a more watchful eye on "Timmy". If they do, then they shouldn't be surprised. "Timmy" has to become "Tim" someday.

The game itself resides on a DVDR not a Tecmo made disc, or a large hard drive, neither of which were made by Tecmo.

I disagree.
 
junkster said:
I disagree.

Required:
3d modeling tools for the makers
Modchip
FTP network connection
patching
DVD burner or Large HD
internet access with access to a forum with titties on it

If "mom and dad" don't know "Timmy" has all this knowledge available to him, then they should keep a more watchful eye on "Timmy". If they do, then they shouldn't be surprised. "Timmy" has to become "Tim" someday.

The game itself resides on a DVDR not a Tecmo made disc, or a large hard drive, neither of which were made by Tecmo.

I disagree.

You disagree because you are computer literate and game savvy.

The general public is neither. General public = jury.

These guys are going down. Either because they can't afford to defend themselves or because they really did something that is against the law. The EFF can claim fair use all it wants.... but it isnt fair use.

I think part of the outrage from the gaming community is that this action is a step that companies seldom use. I remember back in the day people going apeshit when TCs for Quake or Quake 2 would get taken down.

Same shit. Different day.
 
tetsuoxb said:
You disagree because you are computer literate and game savvy.

The general public is neither. General public = jury.

These guys are going down. Either because they can't afford to defend themselves or because they really did something that is against the law. The EFF can claim fair use all it wants.... but it isnt fair use.

I think part of the outrage from the gaming community is that this action is a step that companies seldom use. I remember back in the day people going apeshit when TCs for Quake or Quake 2 would get taken down.

Same shit. Different day.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying this is legal. I'm not even saying they'll win either. In fact, I'm not sure what you're arguing.

You said "The nude patches completely misappropriate the image of the characters, and makes Tecmo a huge target for all kinds of bad things."

But it doesn't make it a target. The nude patches are simply not Tecmo created content. Look at Lara Croft and Tomb Raider. She was nude patched and edited all over the place and that didn't have any sort of backlash. Instead, it helped create some "sexy" momentum and buzz for the Lara Croft character and general public got wind of it and we got 2 (dismal) movies. And hell, Tecmo is creating borderline offensive imagery outside of these mods anyway, but I digress.

Point is, THIS particular example is not creating a problem to anyone. Tecmo is too worried/frightened about the implications of a misappropriated IP that it doesn't see that this sort of modding has never created any sort of major backlash.

And, even when this sort of thing does hit mainstream media, it usually creates a buzz and sells the product even more, despite the quality of the game and ESPECIALLY when the quality of games in question are great to begin with (which IMO DOA:XBV is not, but arguably NG and DOA are).

Hell, do I even need to mention the Rockstar effect with GTA and Manhunt? We're talking stuff that Rockstar itself created and are liable for and the worst they got nailed with was a picketing and a few texture changes. I may be wrong here, but even if they had to pay a fine, again, there's a distinction because Tecmo hasn't created the offensive content.

Tecmo isn't even in a position to be attacked if you compare their titles to the rest of the market. You can't get sued for something you didn't create to beginwith. For example, I can't go on OprahWinfrey.com, modify the site with nude photographs, print it out, and sue Oprah for it, it doesn't work that way. I mean technically I could, but I wouldn't win!

That and the fact that these mods can only exist on modified Xboxes and burned DVDs or hard drives proves my point; that no one can possibly mistake this for the real game and if they did, egg would be on their face when they found out that their own children put these evil boobies onscreen, not Tecmo. It probably wouldn't even make it to trial as the original content is correctly rated T.

To sum up, I agree that the mods are probably illegal. I agree that it is a misappropriation of IP. I also agree that it is within their legal right to protect their IPs to the fullest extent of the law.

However, what I don't agree with is the fact that Tecmo is exercising that right in this particular case. That they're deciding to attack a few hacks for something that will have no negative impact on them, outside of creating a (very small) buzz around them, and maybe helped sell a few copies.

And perhaps they wouldn't be the target of such hacks if they didn't put watermelon sized balloons in their games to begin with, but that's another topic entirely.
 
tetsuoxb said:
You guys don't get it at all... (except GDJustin)

Let's say some unknowing mainstream media member comes to his nephews house and sees the nude patch running on a modded Xbox. TECMO would take all the shit, even though they didn't make it. The value of their characters and their brand would be ruined. The nude patches completely misappropriate the image of the characters, and makes Tecmo a huge target for all kinds of bad things.

Tecmo wouldn't be suing if the characters were skinned with something that isnt potentially damaging to the company, but they have a right and an obligation to defend their trademarks and intellectual property against potentially damaging derivative works. The first sale doctrine does not apply to creating derivative works. Hence why you can't claim to make the "grey album" from legally owned copies of Jay-Z's Black Album and The Beatles S/T white album. Same goes here.

You can't compare this to a PC, where people generally acknowledge the depth of user created content. A console is supposed to be a closed box, and those who don't realize would probably spread publicity on this assumption.... making Tecmo to be evil smut purveyors to children. DoA3 is rated Teen. They would get burned bad. Night Trap style.
according to the guy who's actually getting sued, only once in the 90 point document was nudity mentioned...
 
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