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[Icymanipulator]

Have been getting on the Tekken 8 hype train lately so I decided to pick up Tekken 7 on sale. Haven’t really played the series since Tekken 3, but I was fairly competent at the game, played in local tournaments (and did well) and I understand the fundamentals of Tekken and yet… some of the fights in Tekken 7 are utter bullshit.
The fight against Devil Kazuya on the lava stage in the story mode in particular has almost compete deflated any interest I have in continuing to play the game. Laser spam, hyper armor on so many moves, 1 hit kills, unseeable/non-reactable moves, perfect reads…. This was not fun at all. I’ve played most fighting games that have released in the last 10 years and I’ve never had less fun in single player then with this game. It was a total exercise in frustration. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters, Smash, Marvel vs Capcom, DBFighterz are all better games imo when it comes to single player fight AI. Tekken 7 is a complete joke by comparison. I’ve *never* experienced something like this before in a fighting game. Terrible design.

The online is fine, human players can’t cheat like this, but sometimes you just want to play offline against the computer, or you know… experience the story. Have no idea why Harada and co thought this was good design. It’s literally made me hate the game. Even the Devil Kazumi fight was horrible. Just makes me think that the Devs have no idea how to program decent fight AI. Literally no other fight in any other fighting game I’ve ever played has been this stupid and frustrating.

I know I sound like a whinny bitch, but that’s what Tekken 7 story mode did to me. Even though the multiplayer is fine I’m just so angry from this experience I almost don’t even want to play the game at all anymore. It’s completely spoiled the entire experience.

I’ve seen some posts around the internet of people saying the same thing about Devil Kazuya, so I know I’m not alone. people saying they has to lower it to easy mode just to finish the story… Makes me wonder what kind of bullshit will be in Tekken 8, and if there’s even a point to get it at full price (or at all) if the single player will be this bad. I spent hours and hours playing Tekken 2 and 3 against the computer on hard difficulty back in the day and never had an issue like this.

Sure, I could just ignore it and only play online. But just knowing the time I wasted slamming my head into a wall has just made me hate everything about it. Zero respect for the players time. Wish I could have that time back. I’m just still reeling from that fight and salty af. Utter garbage.
it’s the underlying principle of unfair bullshit here that continues to eat at me and make me possibly never want to play the game again, even though I could just go back to focusing on multiplayer and have a pretty good time. Just knowing that the Devil Kazuya fight exists and the time I wasted on it is like this dark cloud hanging over my head that I can’t stop thinking about. It’s really soured the whole game for me. I can’t remember the last time a game made me this mad. Ugh.

And I’m sure there are some really cool fucking dudes out there who beat it first try, blindfolded and with a guitar hero controller. Good for you. Doesn’t make this fight any less stupid and frustrating. Devil Kazuya is the epitome of no fun and bad game design. Thank god I only paid $10 for this shit.

Rant/vent over

 

[lmimmfn]

Youre gonna love the next fight after that

 

[CircusOfValues]

Get ready for the next battle.

 

[cireza]

Dragon Ball FighterZ has by far the worst single player content and AI from all recent fighting games I tried. Complete trash.

And Dead or Alive 5/6 still has the most enjoyable AI.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Tekken 7 content is shit but I never take fighting game single player mode seriously.
Devil Kazuya fight is not that bad. Akuma fight is the worse.

 

[GenericUser]

It's your fault OP. Tekken is not a single player game. It's entirely about multiplayer.

 

[SEGA_2012]

Yeah, i dont know why devs put cheap boss fights in single player fg content. It is the same thing with gill in sf3. And the worst of all is ômega rugal in kof95.

 

[mxbison]

I got the platinum in Tekken 7 (also included some online fights but not that many) and thought it was fun.

The standard for single player experience in fighting games is obviously pretty low though.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Youre gonna love the next fight after that

I literally shut the game down the second I saw the credits start to roll. There’s more?
I’ll likely never play the story mode again. I’ll check out a YouTube video.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yes Tekken 7 sucks for single player. Its too bad as on the outset it looked like there is a lot but its bad. On top of that Arcade mode is like only 4 fights.

Many gamers shat on Scenario Campaign from 6 but hey, I liked it a lot. It was a Force style brawler with some fun story beats. I also had fun grinding S tier equipment. And while T6 Arcade mode was bare bones without endings, there was this shortened version that let you unlock bonafide cutscenes like the old days.

I hope T8 has a more fun story mode, a bit like an actual tournament without gimmicks. And yeah, kinda hope for a Force mode lol.

 

[emivita]

Tekken 4 had the best single player experience. And probably the best Tekken overall, but it's a matter of taste.

 

[STARSBarry]

Sorry but...

Isn't this just a classic fighting game boss character?

I mean has this trope ever gone away? Back in the day I remember this the key reason that unlocking secret characters by completing arcade with no continues on certain difficulties was a challange.

If you button mashing sure it's a nightmare but this was the point the game essentially said "OK you need to learn some effective combos and keep the damage chain going" I guess they threw in the super armor as a counter to that...

Also these days there's no reward because you buy characters instead of unlocking them, so I'm guessing that saps some of the feeling of achievement from clearing them.

 

[Hoppa]

Yep it’s tragic and it was already outdated on release, the arcade mode (especially the character endings) were worse! Thing is, T7 came off the heels of Tekken Tag 2 which had a whole bunch of content + free DLC yet it bombed HARD so they didn’t have a large budget. I didn’t like T7 but I am so glad it was a major success for the series because T8 looks soooo good. Soul Calibur on the other hand might be on life support

 

[SkylineRKR]

Sorry but...

Isn't this just a classic fighting game boss character?

I mean has this trope ever gone away? Back in the day I remember this the key reason that unlocking secret characters by completing arcade with no continues on certain difficulties was a challange.

If you button mashing sure it's a nightmare but this was the point the game essentially said "OK you need to learn some effective combos and keep the damage chain going" I guess they threw in the super armor as a counter to that...

Also these days there's no reward because you buy characters instead of unlocking them, so I'm guessing that saps some of the feeling of achievement from clearing them.

I would say its like an SNK fighting game boss character. Jinpachi already went that way, but he didn't have much health. Azazel was also cheap, but could easily be juggled to death. lol, I remember AK's capital punishment worked 100% on him. And DJ's lasers ad infinitum.

But in general the Tekken boss AI was fine before all this. Maybe not the T2 bosses AI which had annoying reads.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

KOF has worse bosses OP, the trope is called snk boss syndrome for a reason.

 

[winjer]

This is point where I quit the story mode. It's a really terrible fight.

 

[Signal Rockets]

I used to like fighting games, but not so much nowadays. But Tekken 2 was my first PS1 game.

 

[SCB3]

I forgot about this completely and yea it took a lot of time but he and Akuma are beatable, don't be afraid to just move spam, they are tuned to be harder to beat than a Player

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Play cheap and dirty, spam, do what you have to.
Took me some time, but got the Plat.
I can't remember the last time I fought a Boss in a fighting game that wasn't cheap as fuck.

 

[cireza]

Best single player fighting game is Virtua Fighter 5 on PS3/Xbox 360 by the way, where it has a mode that is like participating in tournaments around Japan, with several different AI per characters to mimic real players.

By far the most elaborated single player content I have ever seen in a fighting game.

 

[Warablo]

Man, MK 9 story mode was so good

 

[SoullessApples]

So if you’re fed up and just want to beat it quickly, use r1 + X if you’re on PlayStation (it’s that move assist button) just spam it. Especially use it for akuma. It’ll take you like. 5 minutes to beat it. At least for akuma it’s the one move he can’t block. Hated that mission

 

[Fuz]

Uh, do you remember Omega Rugal? Goenitz? Orochi?

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 made me quit the fighting game genre forever so I completely understand.

 

[YCoCg]

I thought this was going to be about the crappy storyline of "The Reporter" where they got the worst voice actor possible as the guy sounds like he's close to being asleep for most of it.

 

[Varteras]

Akuma can go to hell. I don't know why, but that motherfucker had my number. I stopped on him before I broke a controller.

 

[SeraphJan]

Nowhere near as cheap as KOF94 Rugal.

Even KOF95,96,97 is a joke compare to 94

 

[Revolutionary]

I thought the Tekken 6 final boss was much worse. Fucker had an invisible shield that would randomly block hits. It was awful.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

Tekken has been an embarrassment since 6. Completely lost its identity.

 

[theclaw135]

All these games are training wheels for the embodiment of evil that is Hyper Street Fighter II: The Anniversary Edition

 

[Danknugz]

Have been getting on the Tekken 8 hype train lately so I decided to pick up Tekken 7 on sale. Haven’t really played the series since Tekken 3, but I was fairly competent at the game, played in local tournaments (and did well) and I understand the fundamentals of Tekken and yet… some of the fights in Tekken 7 are utter bullshit.
The fight against Devil Kazuya on the lava stage in the story mode in particular has almost compete deflated any interest I have in continuing to play the game. Laser spam, hyper armor on so many moves, 1 hit kills, unseeable/non-reactable moves, perfect reads…. This was not fun at all. I’ve played most fighting games that have released in the last 10 years and I’ve never had less fun in single player then with this game. It was a total exercise in frustration. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters, Smash, Marvel vs Capcom, DBFighterz are all better games imo when it comes to single player fight AI. Tekken 7 is a complete joke by comparison. I’ve *never* experienced something like this before in a fighting game. Terrible design.

The online is fine, human players can’t cheat like this, but sometimes you just want to play offline against the computer, or you know… experience the story. Have no idea why Harada and co thought this was good design. It’s literally made me hate the game. Even the Devil Kazumi fight was horrible. Just makes me think that the Devs have no idea how to program decent fight AI. Literally no other fight in any other fighting game I’ve ever played has been this stupid and frustrating.

I know I sound like a whinny bitch, but that’s what Tekken 7 story mode did to me. Even though the multiplayer is fine I’m just so angry from this experience I almost don’t even want to play the game at all anymore. It’s completely spoiled the entire experience.

I’ve seen some posts around the internet of people saying the same thing about Devil Kazuya, so I know I’m not alone. people saying they has to lower it to easy mode just to finish the story… Makes me wonder what kind of bullshit will be in Tekken 8, and if there’s even a point to get it at full price (or at all) if the single player will be this bad. I spent hours and hours playing Tekken 2 and 3 against the computer on hard difficulty back in the day and never had an issue like this.

Sure, I could just ignore it and only play online. But just knowing the time I wasted slamming my head into a wall has just made me hate everything about it. Zero respect for the players time. Wish I could have that time back. I’m just still reeling from that fight and salty af. Utter garbage.
it’s the underlying principle of unfair bullshit here that continues to eat at me and make me possibly never want to play the game again, even though I could just go back to focusing on multiplayer and have a pretty good time. Just knowing that the Devil Kazuya fight exists and the time I wasted on it is like this dark cloud hanging over my head that I can’t stop thinking about. It’s really soured the whole game for me. I can’t remember the last time a game made me this mad. Ugh.

And I’m sure there are some really cool fucking dudes out there who beat it first try, blindfolded and with a guitar hero controller. Good for you. Doesn’t make this fight any less stupid and frustrating. Devil Kazuya is the epitome of no fun and bad game design. Thank god I only paid $10 for this shit.

Rant/vent over

i think i actually lost 10$ in the time i wasted reading this than working

 

[NeverYouMind]

Yes, the AI in this entry is complete bullocks, but more because it is so incompetent. Story mode always sucks for fighting games. The worst single player comes down to braindead Treasure Battle and defective Arcade. They even removed Survival, Team Battle, and Ghost Battle which made the previous games worth playing. To add insult to injury, ~95% of the customization items are generic trash. I anticipate Tekken 8 doing better, but expect some disappointment.

 

[MarkMe2525]

It's your fault OP. Tekken is not a single player game. It's entirely about multiplayer.

So, a customer isn't expected to interact and enjoy the games single player mode that the developers included? It's the customers fault if they don't enjoy it? Are you being serious?

 

[GenericUser]

So, a customer isn't expected to interact and enjoy the games single player mode that the developers included? It's the customers fault if they don't enjoy it? Are you being serious?

Yes

Fighting games are all about the multiplayer, if you expect a good single player experience from them, you are usually a fool.

 

[Henry Panic]

There's only maybe 10 fighting games in the history of the medium that have Real single player modes.

Most of them are from two franchises.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I remember playing fight force 64 as a kid you want a story fighting game you’re gonna buy this

 

[Jigsaah]

Step 1. Use Paul
Step 2. Spam Phoenix Smasher
Step 3: Profit

 

[MarkMe2525]

Yes

Fighting games are all about the multiplayer, if you expect a good single player experience from them, you are usually a fool.

You are right, someone is definitely a fool.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Man, MK 9 story mode was so good

Yes I miss MK9, what a wonderful entry in the series. Didn’t care for X and never played 11.

Step 1. Use Paul
Step 2. Spam Phoenix Smasher
Step 3: Profit

The story fights forces you to use Heihachi

Play cheap and dirty, spam, do what you have to.
Took me some time, but got the Plat.
I can't remember the last time I fought a Boss in a fighting game that wasn't cheap as fuck.

This is basically what I had to end up doing. Abused Hehachis knee, forward + X, and a couple other moves. Part of the problem is a game forcing you to play in an unnatural way. The only way to win is to hope to find some cheap tactic that trips up the AI, at which point I have to ask myself- am I even playing a fighting game, or am I just looking for ways to trick the AI?

Many final bosses are hard, but I think there’s a line between hard but fair, and hard and cheap. I don’t kind losing as long as I’m learning something with each loss. That wasn’t the case here. Devil Kazuya can have a legit frame opening and the moment I would hit punch to start the basic 3 hit punch combo he would react to it immediately before even getting hit and hit me. At a certain point it just made me not want to hit any buttons at all.

Anyway, I’m a little less salty now that I’ve had a chance to step away from the game and get some sleep. Thinking about it over coffee this morning and I still think it’s infuriating and that I’ll never waste time on the story again, there’s still part of me that doesn’t want to give up though. Overall I really enjoy fighting games, I just need to stick to multiplayer.

It’s too bad that the FGC let Soul Calibur die. I think the movement options in SC are far more fluid for moving in 3D space as well as the clear paper/rock/scissors dynamic between vertical/horizontal/kicks being a solid foundation thats easy to understand. too bad the game is a ghost town online. I wish SC would have taken off and been the more popular series between the 2. But I guess that’s a different time line.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I hate when fighting games have to break their own mechanics to make a boss "hard." NetherRealm has been guilty of this many times as well.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yes I miss MK9, what a wonderful entry in the series. Didn’t care for X and never played 11.


The story fights forces you to use Heihachi


This is basically what I had to end up doing. Abused Hehachis knee, forward + X, and a couple other moves. Part of the problem is a game forcing you to play in an unnatural way. The only way to win is to hope to find some cheap tactic that trips up the AI, at which point I have to ask myself- am I even playing a fighting game, or am I just looking for ways to trick the AI?

Many final bosses are hard, but I think there’s a line between hard but fair, and hard and cheap. I don’t kind losing as long as I’m learning something with each loss. That wasn’t the case here. Devil Kazuya can have a legit frame opening and the moment I would hit punch to start the basic 3 hit punch combo he would react to it immediately before even getting hit and hit me. At a certain point it just made me not want to hit any buttons at all.

Anyway, I’m a little less salty now that I’ve had a chance to step away from the game and get some sleep. Thinking about it over coffee this morning and I still think it’s infuriating and that I’ll never waste time on the story again, there’s still part of me that doesn’t want to give up though. Overall I really enjoy fighting games, I just need to stick to multiplayer.

It’s too bad that the FGC let Soul Calibur die. I think the movement options in SC are far more fluid for moving in 3D space as well as the clear paper/rock/scissors dynamic between vertical/horizontal/kicks being a solid foundation thats easy to understand. too bad the game is a ghost town online. I wish SC would have taken off and been the more popular series between the 2. But I guess that’s a different time line.

Oh wow...it's been a while. Didn't remember you gotta use Heihachi. Most fighting game bosses in the single player are made broken on purpose. Same thing in Guilty Gear: Strive. So much so that they give you a 2nd AI partner to fight the last boss, which is Nagoryuki on acid. Even further than that, there's an achievment for beating an even more broken form of Nago by yourself, that as far as I can tell you can only fight against after multiple playthroughs.

Shao Kahn was broken in Motaro MK2, Shang Tsung and Goro MK1...I mean the list goes on. Ogre and True Ogre in Tekken 3. Even Jun Kazama is kinda stupid in Tekken 7 in the different character story fights.

 

[Puscifer]

Yes, the AI in this entry is complete bullocks, but more because it is so incompetent. Story mode always sucks for fighting games. The worst single player comes down to braindead Treasure Battle and defective Arcade. They even removed Survival, Team Battle, and Ghost Battle which made the previous games worth playing. To add insult to injury, ~95% of the customization items are generic trash. I anticipate Tekken 8 doing better, but expect some disappointment.

I feel like every other Tekken was an in-between game to smooth out what comes next but that changed with 6.

2 barely improved but set the stage for 3, second best after 5.

4 changed a lot, they dialed it back and kept what worked for 5

6 was another change but instead of refining what worked, for 7 they doubled doubled down on what didn't and made the customization Soul Calibur levels of stupid

8 the art direction is continually getting worse (seriously, Paul and Law look ridiculous and King Xiaou looks), the stages are getting even smaller and less varied and they've added more ridiculous comeback and power move mechanics.

Which is funny, because even prior to 6 putting this stuff in there 1-5 equipped every character with moves that could win the match in a single hit but unlike the rest of the stuff it took timing, positioning and precision to pull off and felt way more natural that "press the back button and two punch when your health is below 30% to initiate a 6 second cinematic"

Shockingly of all, though, is that the PS3 port of Dark Resurrection found a new audience after being so alienated 6-8

 

[lh032]

i love tekken, but im pissed its still doessnt have a proper vs cpu mode.

 

[BennyBlanco]

i have like 1000 hours in tekken 7 and never played the single player

 

[GenericUser]

You are right, someone is definitely a fool.

I like your avatar

 

[Supple]

It's not as bad as SFV.

 

[GenericUser]

i have like 1000 hours in tekken 7 and never played the single player

whats your highest online rank?

 

[AlteredForms]

Tekken single player mode is absolutely atrocious. The whole narrative of the entire series revolves around a family that fights and betrays one another for control of a company. It's rather silly when you think about it going on for 20+ years. Gameplay on the other hand was always stellar, there's not too many fighting games that could have topped prime Tekken.

 

[Crayon]

So, a customer isn't expected to interact and enjoy the games single player mode that the developers included? It's the customers fault if they don't enjoy it? Are you being serious?

Nobody is at fault. The customer is free to be dissapointed.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I feel like every other Tekken was an in-between game to smooth out what comes next but that changed with 6.

2 barely improved but set the stage for 3, second best after 5.

4 changed a lot, they dialed it back and kept what worked for 5

6 was another change but instead of refining what worked, for 7 they doubled doubled down on what didn't and made the customization Soul Calibur levels of stupid

8 the art direction is continually getting worse (seriously, Paul and Law look ridiculous and King Xiaou looks), the stages are getting even smaller and less varied and they've added more ridiculous comeback and power move mechanics.

Which is funny, because even prior to 6 putting this stuff in there 1-5 equipped every character with moves that could win the match in a single hit but unlike the rest of the stuff it took timing, positioning and precision to pull off and felt way more natural that "press the back button and two punch when your health is below 30% to initiate a 6 second cinematic"

Shockingly of all, though, is that the PS3 port of Dark Resurrection found a new audience after being so alienated 6-8

I disagree with a lot of your take aways and how you got there.

Tekken 2 was a revolutionary change from Tekken 1 in wake up, spacing, hits connecting, animation, and presentation. Its sequel removed moon physics on jumps, added sidestep, added counterhit throw attacks, implemented several new wake up options (like ukemi), improved dashing, and made jump kicks juggle starters while also polishing up everything else. The intermediate Tag entry made low parry, rage, tag, team throws, and tag juggles universal mechanics.

Four went off the rails by implementing full 3D movement (removing back dash canceling), ditching infinite stages, adding walls (allowing wall splat and wall rolls), implementing uneven terrains, including environmental hazards, adding just-frame attacks, reducing the floating effect of post launch attacks, and increasing the importance of pokes. Tekken 5 ditched everything except wall splat and just-frame attacks while adding frame-advantage breaking high-crush and absurd grounded hits.

The streamlining in 6 was the best thing that could happen but in implementing bound and rage it made the balance uneven. Also, it made stage transitions a thing. Bound after wall splat and stage transition made the game slightly absurd in the juggle department. Tag 2 decided to turn rage and tag juggles up to 11 while adding frame-advantage breaking mid-crush and making the terrible 2v1 matchup a thing.

Tekken 7 wanted to be a 2D fighter with the shit it threw into the mix. Aesthetics aside, Tekken 8's direction is anybody's guess.

P.S. Of all the entries only Tag and 6 have enough polish for my tastes even with some of their more questionable implementations of mechanics.