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[YesNOnoNOYes]

So. This will be shamelessly based stolen from Crab’s previous Review Thread.

We have finished Gaf Mafia Season 3!!! YAAAAAAAY

Huge congratulations to:

• The three main game runners: Ourobolus, LaunchpadMcQ and Zatoth! (click on their names for links to their awesome games)
• Additional game runners for side and mini games: RetroMG, CzarTim, Hyperactivity, SalvaPot, Burbeting (bap me if I forgot anyone ;___

And to everyone who had taken participation and shared laughter and tears in the last season :> Great games, everyone!

Firstly, our next generation of moderators.

I’ll be using Crab’s application form here, this is it:

Number of player slots for the game:
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up:
Theme:
Game type: (this one is new for Season 4, please self-assess your game from a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is CLASSIC MAFIA and 10 is BASTARD MAFIA)

If you want to moderate a game, please do not discuss the details with anyone except with tutor moderators. If you've already spilled the beans with someone else, that's fine, you can continue with them, but otherwise it can become a tactical way to end up in a particular game by ruling yourself out of others. Obviously none of you would do that, but I think it's a fairly bad precedent to set.

I’m assuming there are at least three games that will run in Season 4. Crab will make the final call on this. I’m just running admin and helping out.

Secondly, we need to sort out a new recruitment thread.

Last time Crab had asked GAF mods if we will be able to run the recruitment thread in OT rather than Community and he was given the OK so we will be able to do that again here. But for now, I will wait until we get our feedback and thoughts in order before we start that thread up.

I think the current set up for the recruitment thread is okay, so if there are no objections, we should keep the format. Only, if any of you have any fab ideas for a catchy title, please holler.

Crab’s pointers from last time:

• What should the thread title be? A good thread title makes people click.
• What content should be in the first post? How should it be prioritized? Is there any information that should be dropped as unnecessary or added because it is missing?

Thirdly, various miscellania.

What did you think went best about Season 3? Is there anything you felt was missing or would change?

Some discussion points:

• There were talks about players potentially being able to swap places or select games to participate in. What do you guys think? Would the logistics be too troublesome? What are the pros and cons?
• Season 4 will run into the holiday season. We have never run GAFia through the xmas / ny period. Are there potential issues here? How to address it best?
• Newbie honeymoon period. There were discussions about how to handle newer players in-game. Once the sign-up thread is up, I will try to put together some analysis on retention and return rate of players, but how the community treats newer players would have some effects on the community’s population stability. Any thoughts on this?
• Inactive players. Did Season 3 approach towards inactive players work better than Season 2? There were some modkills in Season 3, which were firsts in GAFia history, I think.
• High Activity / Low Activity play style. I see a number of the high-activity posters have already started to rein in their post counts, which is appreciated and noted :> But if there are further discussions on this point, please chime in!
• Any other feedback / gripes / constructive criticism you wanna raise, PLEASE SPEAK UP! Anything that you particularly enjoy or were frustrated with, any issues, any memories, any ideas – WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THEM ALL. Okies? ^____^

I imagine this will be open for around a week or two..., just to give everyone time to have their input, then we can start the recruitment thread for Season 4. Crab said that he may only get steady access to internet back from Nov 5, so... we'll wait on his input on that front :3

So in Crab’s awesome parting words: …… in memory of a gaming great, please drop the bomb.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Crab has templates for the season thread and signups. So I'll defer to him on them thingies:

i've been having intermittent connection problems as i am abroad

my keyboard is also not working properly

someone else may have to start the review thread where we can talk about structure for GAFia's future - e.g., how seasons and non-season games work, whether we allow people to choose between open/normal/bastard etc - ouro/launch/kark?

in general im unsure how easy posting will be until nov 5th for me, sorry about this. did not think i'd be quite so busy/remote

i have a template for the season thread + signups to pass on once the review is over, but i cant contribute much myself atm

Game applications:

Number of player slots for the game: 26 - Note that it can't be any lower than 26.
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Palmer_v1, Ourobolus, Zatoth
Theme: Love (I want to keep it bit cryptic. It's not a pre-established theme like Danganronpa and Archer were last season)
Game type: 7. Works like a typical mafia mostly, but has one mechanic that hasn't been used in Gafia before.

Number of player slots for the game: I currently have built it for 21, but it's easily altered.
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Zatoth, Ouro, and Launch have links to my creation QT. I guess Karkador has also been subject to a few random brainstorms that may or may not get used in this game, but it's nothing that should bar him from participation, IMO.
Theme: Standard Werewolf. No major fluff connections or meta jokes. Will be closed setup, but I'm thinking of making it Night Start instead of Day Start.
Game type: 4-6.

Review thread, yay!

Now, I have also been working on a game myself:

Number of player slots for the game: 26-ish, very flexible.
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: My brothers, who may or may not join season 4.
Theme: Danny Phantom
Game type:6 or 7.

Here is my application, opinions and stuff will come at a later post:

Number of player slots for the game: 28 players
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Ourobolus, Nin1000 (Co-Moderator)
Theme: Harry Potter
Game type: 8 (Lots of PR and context sensitive events)

This particular game required quite a few trial and error in my part, and Ouro made a huge effort in pointing out everything that seemed vague or unclear, I think the game turned out pretty great. As I have mentioned before, people who have some HP experience will enjoy it the most, BUT the tweaks Ouro and Nin helped me with made it so it could still be enjoyed thoroughly even if you don´t know Snape killed Gandalf.

The context sensitive events are pretty simple and clear and character focused, it shouldn´t be a problem since I am lazy as hell so I did not make it complicated.

Also, it is Harry Potter so expect all your favorite Characters, Spells and even relationships, its going to be fun for anyone, no matter the alignment.

Number of player slots for the game: 20
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Kristoffer, Blargonaut
Theme: Super Mario
Game type: 10, with some constraint.

Oh, I suppose, but one likes to be official.

Night Vale Mafia
Number of player slots for the game: 23
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Launchpad, Ourobolus, and Zatoth have been sent the full setup. I believe Crab has, too.
Theme: Welcome to Night Vale
Game type: 6.

Spoiler

The setup is pretty classic and I don't have an underlying mechanic, but there will be some twists. It is very flavor heavy, but the flavor can be safely ignored and the game played as regular mafia.

Number of player slots for the game: 16
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Not a single person. I have moderated 3 mafia games in my lifetime.
Theme:

Spoiler

Frog Fractions

Game type:

Spoiler

11

3. Danny Phantom by Terrabyte20xx – Category: 6 or 7
Description:

"Greetings travelers, my name is Clockwork, Master of All Time. You may be wondering just where you are right now, and why you're here.

You are in a realm called "The Ghost Zone", where all ghosts live. I brought you here to my tower to put you all to a test. You see, The Observants have begun to get restless over this battle between good and evil that you humans and ghosts fight. They fear that long-term damage that could be irreparable will occur if nothing is done about it soon. So they contacted me to do the dirty work while they, true to their names, observe it.

And thus brings us to the test. I have searched through out all of time for the most appropriate way to end this conflict, and have settled on an activity known as "Mafia". You all have been chosen to be the representatives of good and evil. Some of you may know each other, so in order to make the test as fair as it can be, I will block all but the memories necessary for the test.

Be wary who you vote to banish throughout time, one of you is much more valuable than they appear. Until we begin...

TIME OUT

4.

Spoiler

Lover's

Mafia – Category: 7
Description:

! Note: This game may work wonderfully if you go in without knowing too much of its twists before hand, ONLY proceed to read the flavor if you'd prefer to be spoiled on the details !

Legends told, that in the hidden depths of NeoGAF forums, there was an amusement park. But this park wasn’t just any sort of park... since it actually had just one working attraction in it. A Love Tunnel, that was being kept running by a single man…

One day, thirteen pairs of NeoGAF lovers arrived to the entrance of the wondrous Love Tunnel. As they were trying to sit down into the duck-shaped boats that would take them into the ride, the caretaker of the tunnel suddenly approached them.

”Welcome to the Love Tunnel! I am Burbeting, the caretaker of this Tunnel, and also your guide! I can sense wondrous sense of love coming from most of you! I just know most of you people have truly find your special other!”

The loving couples looked at each other and sighed as loudly as typical lovers could. However, it seemed that the caretaker had not completely finished.

”However… I sense that one or more of the pairs do not emit any sort of love…. I almost could call them loveless couples… What a travesty! Only true love can come into my Love Tunnel! But… I have no idea which one of you couples are the loveless, and who are not…”

After a short moment of silence, and people muttering to each other, the caretaker started to walk towards the Tunnel itself. He snapped his fingers, and then suddenly the swan-boats started to move in the water into the Tunnel. With a short sigh, the caretaker looked at the thirteen swan-boats that moved quite slowly.

”Ah well, it will be a long ride anyway. Might as well let you lovers figure out who the Loveless couples are. I’m way too old for that.”

 

[Zatoth]

So, another Australian took the lead?

 

[cabot]

Should've been me.....

It should've been me

 

[cabot]

I'd like to highlight the Archer mafia situation where the team was mostly inactive until they were cut down and had to do something or else.

I say highlight because I'm not sure of a real solution yet, but bringing it up here is definitely a good idea.

Can measures be taken to ensure the situation doesn't happen again?

Oh, what about this thread name? PANTS, YEENY!

Will previous players who haven't been keeping up with the General Mafia thread pop in here? We should probably specifically mention feedback or something.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Re Holiday Season: If needed we can just expand the nightphase until the critical days are over. By end of December there shouldn't be that many people left in the game so I think the game runners can decide individually depending on what the players want.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

NO PANTS. ONLY TEARS.

Spoiler

and goat.

R_F, I think that's reasonable. Depending on when the actual games start though, one or two games may still be in its middle phases. But I think leaving this up to each individual game moderators to decide on is a fair approach. It may just be something to keep in mind for the game runners as they carry through.

cabot, yeah, mafia inactivity was a point that Crab was also keen to discuss I think. I have no idea if there's any solutions to it though.... scum team is basically screwed when there's inactivity on their camp :x

 

[roytheone]

[*]There were talks about players potentially being able to swap places or select games to participate in. What do you guys think? Would the logistics be too troublesome? What are the pros and cons?

Letting people select their game is a bad idea, but I am not against giving people the possibility to give a preference for the game they want to get into. But we probably should make clear that it is a preference, and that it will not guarantee that you get into that game.

[*]Season 4 will run into the holiday season. We have never run GAFia through the xmas / ny period. Are there potential issues here? How to address it best?

I think this depends on how many people will be gone/not as active in this period. If like half of a game will be gone for a week, maybe it is a better idea to temporarily suspend the games, and run a short side game (ONUW, target game etc.) for the people that are still willing/able to play in that week.

[*]Newbie honeymoon period. There were discussions about how to handle newer players in-game. Once the sign-up thread is up, I will try to put together some analysis on retention and return rate of players, but how the community treats newer players would have some effects on the community’s population stability. Any thoughts on this?

Hard one. I think the main season games are better for newer player, since they are bigger (being in the background at the start will be less of a problem), longer (more time to get a feeling for the game), have other newbies, and tend to have weird mechanics that are new to everyone so that levels the playing field a bit (that was one of the reasons I as a newbie was so focused on the mission mechanic in Archer).

A related problem I thought about: if RNGesus is a dick and puts 4 newbies in the scum team, that could be a problem. I doubt that would be fun for them. But forcing at least one experiences player in the scum team is also not the best thing to do, because that will influence the scum hunting of players.

 

[roytheone]

Also, if the goal of the title is to get people to click on it, I think OMG, HALF LIFE 3 ANNOUNCED! Will achieve that!

cabot, yeah, mafia inactivity was a point that Crab was also keen to discuss I think. I have no idea if there's any solutions to it though.... scum team is basically screwed when there's inactivity on their camp :x

Mafia inactivity indeed sucks. I think the moderator of the game has to be on top of the scum team a bit, and be faster with sending reminders etc. to inactive scum members compared to inactive town members.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

So, another Australian took the lead?

>

Letting people select their game is a bad idea, but I am not against giving people the possibility to give a preference for the game they want to get into. But we probably should make clear that it is a preference, and that it will not guarantee that you get into that game.

Yes. Agree 100%. I think asking for game preference is good. Hypothetically, if someone hates bastard games and got assigned into one, it'd probably make a bad experience? Would we prefer that this player quit after the game had started or would he/she be allowed to swap places prior to the game starting?

I think this depends on how many people will be gone/not as active in this period. If like half of a game will be gone for a week, maybe it is a better idea to temporarily suspend the games, and run a short side game (ONUW, target game etc.) for the people that are still willing/able to play in that week.

yeah, i think it's probably best to approach this one on a case-by-case basis as R_F suggested. but pausing the game should be considered when and if the numbers of active players do drop considerably.

Hard one. I think the main season games are better for newer player, since they are bigger (being in the background at the start will be less of a problem), longer (more time to get a feeling for the game), have other newbies, and tend to have weird mechanics that are new to everyone so that levels the playing field a bit (that was one of the reasons I as a newbie was so focused on the mission mechanic in Archer).

A related problem I thought about: if RNGesus is a dick and puts 4 newbies in the scum team, that could be a problem. I doubt that would be fun for them. But forcing at least one experiences player in the scum team is also not the best thing to do, because that will influence the scum hunting of players.

wow it'd reaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly suck if everyone in the scum team are newbies. i hope RNG would never plunge us through that nightmare >___<

aaand yea, i agree with you on the bigger games being better suited for newer players.

Also, if the goal of the title is to get people to click on it, I think OMG, HALF LIFE 3 ANNOUNCED! Will achieve that!

Mafia inactivity indeed sucks. I think the moderator of the game has to be on top of the scum team a bit, and be faster with sending reminders etc. to inactive scum members compared to inactive town members.

i think all three mods were pretty on point with their reminders in S3, tbh...

 

[cabot]

I would definitely say that a universal inactivity standard across all players is not the best solution for inactive Mafia. I would suggest a two tier system with regards to inactivity based on whether you are mafia or not.

Example (just for understanding):

Non-Mafia get prodded after a day's inactivity in the game thread
Mafia get notice at half a day.

Points to note:

1) I don't want to say prodded after half a day because that is way too harsh, but I'm thinking more of the mod trying to facilitate the mafia chat by trying to ensure they all chat regularly. It's a delicate balancing act between facilitation and maybe pushing too hard, and others can chime in and try and fine tune my thinking.

2) I think the mod should be harsher on Mafia players who are only meeting the minimum activity standards, just by nature of the game. Now the problem is if that rule difference is stated publically in the game thread OP, that could taint new arrivals with some people who want to go meta (looking at you El Topo you devil)

I think the best solution would be to emphasize the increased activity scrutiny in the Mafia role PMs, and maybe just discount it on the PM when flipped.

Anyone think there's anything to this idea?

 

[*Splinter]

So everyone gets publicly prodded after a day, scum get privately chased after half a day? I think that works? An inactive player (town or scum) gets no visible action from the mod until a full day has passed, so I don't think there's too much danger of meta gaming.

 

[*Splinter]

On an unrelated note, although it's too late for this season, I'd just like to remind future potential game runners about Crab's advice to design roles independent to the flavour, and then fit the flavour over the top. If you try to create a roll to describe certain characters in your flavour you can end up with stupid/overpowered roles that really screw with the base game of Mafia (hello Lucky Students).

 

[cabot]

I could be reading too much into it but I would suspect if you'd read in the game thread that Mafia are looked upon more strictly for inactivity, whenever someone is replaced, you'd be more suspicious of them.

I'm just trying to think of a way where the Mafia know that they're being scrutinised more than the non-Mafia without affecting the mentality of the players in the game.

Also, can we put a universal ban on Splinter playing?

I hate that guy!

I haven't covered neutrals here, but that's because they (most likely) won't have others relying on them as much as a Mafia team would, so I think they should be treated on the same level as townies.

 

[*Splinter]

I could be reading too much into it but I would suspect if you'd read in the game thread that Mafia are looked upon more strictly for inactivity, whenever someone is replaced, you'd be more suspicious of them.

I'm just trying to think of a way where the Mafia know that they're being scrutinised more than the non-Mafia without affecting the mentality of the players in the game.

Also, can we put a universal ban on Splinter playing?

I hate that guy!

I haven't covered neutrals here, but that's because they (most likely) won't have others relying on them as much as a Mafia team would, so I think they should be treated on the same level as townies.

The problem with any "discrete" solution is that it can only work for (at most) one season. I think the rules for actually replacing people have to be the same for both teams.



We do need to ban Splinter
Anti town not to imo

 

[roytheone]

On an unrelated note, although it's too late for this season, I'd just like to remind future potential game runners about Crab's advice to design roles independent to the flavour, and then fit the flavour over the top. If you try to create a roll to describe certain characters in your flavour you can end up with stupid/overpowered roles that really screw with the base game of Mafia (hello Lucky Students).

I am of two minds about linking flavor characters with role powers. One the one hand it is pretty fun to have named characters with roles that make sense for them, it makes the flavor that much more exciting! But on the other hand, you have to be very careful that knowledge of the source material doesn't become an advantage for people that have it, that would be unfair.

 

[Burbeting]

Number of player slots for the game: 26 - Note that it can't be any lower than 26.
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Palmer_v1, Ourobolus, Zatoth
Theme: Love (I want to keep it bit cryptic. It's not a pre-established theme like Danganronpa and Archer were last season)
Game type: 7. Works like a typical mafia mostly, but has one mechanic that hasn't been used in Gafia before.

 

[Sorian]

The problem with any "discrete" solution is that it can only work for (at most) one season. I think the rules for actually replacing people have to be the same for both teams.



We do need to ban Splinter
Anti town not to imo

I do agree that scum should be prodded at a faster rate than regular town or neutral but I don't see why it can't work always long term. The prods are done in private, whether through PM or just directly in the scum chat and the mod does not have to tell the players every time someone gets prodded. If someone is getting replaced, the mod doesn't need to announce that it is for inactivity. A quick "So-and-so has dropped out of the game, I will be seeking a replacement" is all that is needed. There doesn't need to be any hint that it was due to inactivity.

Letting people select their game is a bad idea, but I am not against giving people the possibility to give a preference for the game they want to get into. But we probably should make clear that it is a preference, and that it will not guarantee that you get into that game.



I think this depends on how many people will be gone/not as active in this period. If like half of a game will be gone for a week, maybe it is a better idea to temporarily suspend the games, and run a short side game (ONUW, target game etc.) for the people that are still willing/able to play in that week.



Hard one. I think the main season games are better for newer player, since they are bigger (being in the background at the start will be less of a problem), longer (more time to get a feeling for the game), have other newbies, and tend to have weird mechanics that are new to everyone so that levels the playing field a bit (that was one of the reasons I as a newbie was so focused on the mission mechanic in Archer).

A related problem I thought about: if RNGesus is a dick and puts 4 newbies in the scum team, that could be a problem. I doubt that would be fun for them. But forcing at least one experiences player in the scum team is also not the best thing to do, because that will influence the scum hunting of players.

I'll just take this one point by point too.

I agree that getting to choose your game is a bad idea but I think trading after assignment is ok, as long as it is done during the period between getting assigned to a game and getting role PMs. Last I remember that was a day or two which is plenty of time to get that out of the way. Otherwise, you snooze, you lose.

I do agree that we should advise new players to start in the community during the main season games. The mid season games are fun but they are either weirdly different (target game, ONUW, vigilante orgy) or they are so small and packed with regulars that a newbie can feel intimidated and that feeling of intimidation can seem suspicious and then we have a snowball effect that may not seem fun to the new player.

I'm all for RNG 100% in terms of roles going out. For example, I can see why Traube did it, but I was kind of bummed to see that only vet players were eligible to be neutral lyncher and that lyncher's target in cthulhu. I think a lot of fun in these games playing with the cards you are dealt and making sure certain people aren't eligible for some of the cards feels kind of eh to me. It seems like the goal for big season games is to have a good half and half of new and old players and odds are the teams will shake out that way as well.

-----------

Something else I want to bring up is mid season games as well. I think people need to be more careful about signing up for other games when they are already in one. Things like Target and ONUW is fine but playing another full on game like NX, Election, or Gafia while already being in any other game should be a last resort. If the game runner needs a replacement and there is no one free from all games available then its fine by me but I don't think people should be going out of their way to sign up for other big things when they are already indisposed in another game (I know I am guilty of this).

 

[Palmer_v1]

Number of player slots for the game: I currently have built it for 21, but it's easily altered.
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: Zatoth, Ouro, and Launch have links to my creation QT. I guess Karkador has also been subject to a few random brainstorms that may or may not get used in this game, but it's nothing that should bar him from participation, IMO.
Theme: Standard Werewolf. No major fluff connections or meta jokes. Will be closed setup, but I'm thinking of making it Night Start instead of Day Start.
Game type: Maybe a 3 on a bastard scale.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I think one thing we need to be particularly wary about is policy lynching based on past games. Some folks like poor ol' swamps haven't had experience as certain roles, so saying "You're suspicious because you acted X way in Y game and you're acting Z way now" shouldn't be something that has any place in the discussion. It's alright if you keep those thoughts in mind privately, but trying to use them as evidence in an actual game isn't fair to those who haven't had a chance to stretch their legs yet.

 

[*Splinter]

I don't think we've had any serious policy lynches yet. It usually comes up as a D1 joke point but even Swamped didn't get any real suspicion from it

 

[Palmer_v1]

For Holidays, I'm not opposed to taking breaks, nor playing through. I'd probably err on the side of caution and just delay the games for a week to be fair to as many as possible.

For last seasons games, I've mentioned it before, but I think we went a little too hard on side-mechanics and bastard elements. Anything that fundamentally changes the way the game plays should be considered carefully.

I also agree with what Sorian mentioned regarding signing up for multiple games. People should stick to one game at a time. Partly so they can give that game it's deserved attention, and partly because it starts to get confusing when you want to refer to something in an ongoing game, but can't because you may be spoiling something else. We also need to leave recruitment open longer for side games, to give people a better chance. Priority should roughly be new players > dead players > living players(as a last resort).

 

[*Splinter]

Agree with everything Palmer just said

 

[Palmer_v1]

I think one thing we need to be particularly wary about is policy lynching based on past games. Some folks like poor ol' swamps haven't had experience as certain roles, so saying "You're suspicious because you acted X way in Y game and you're acting Z way now" shouldn't be something that has any place in the discussion. It's alright if you keep those thoughts in mind privately, but trying to use them as evidence in an actual game isn't fair to those who haven't had a chance to stretch their legs yet.

Your definition of a policy lynch is different than mine. To me, a policy lynch means that you're willing to lynch anyone who meets a specific requirement regardless of who they are, i.e. we should policy lynch anyone that claims to be NK immune, or we should policy lynch anyone that didn't place a vote, or we should policy lynch anyone that role claims within 30 minutes of the end of the day.

Lynching someone based on a comparison of current behavior to past behavior is just a fundamental part of Mafia to me. Consistency is one of the greatest skills you can employ in this game, even if that consistency is just that you adopt a new persona each game =p

 

[Sorian]

I think one thing we need to be particularly wary about is policy lynching based on past games. Some folks like poor ol' swamps haven't had experience as certain roles, so saying "You're suspicious because you acted X way in Y game and you're acting Z way now" shouldn't be something that has any place in the discussion. It's alright if you keep those thoughts in mind privately, but trying to use them as evidence in an actual game isn't fair to those who haven't had a chance to stretch their legs yet.

I've seen the jokes before but it's correct that we have not actually policy lynched anyone based on past games and that should never be done. I do think that people should use common sense when it comes to what they reference in past games and what they don't. In general, I think using specific examples from a past game about a player is a no go (Scrafty acted like this in cthulhu so she must be town now) because that means nothing to the new players in the room and I'll be honest, it felt weird in Cthulhu when people kept telling me I was a lot like Tim so I must be town. I had nothing to say back to that so I just tried to ignore it. On the flip side, calling general information from past games is fine (When we've had a game of this size in the past, there has only been two neutrals, I feel like that may be the case here).

It's a hard thing to gauge and an even harder thing for a mod to make a rule set around but I think everyone should just use common sense on the matter.

We also need to leave recruitment open longer for side games, to give people a better chance. Priority should roughly be new players > dead players > living players(as a last resort).

Thank you, I knew I was forgetting something from my post. Launch did this right with the Gafia game, 24 hours minimum (but the more, the better) and rough priority as quoted. This becomes more lax depending on how big or serious your game is (a target game that will be done in 6 hours isn't as serious as a 3 week election mafia for example).

 

[Palmer_v1]

Were there any major rules SNAFUs that we need to discuss this time around? I know sample roles threw a few things off in the Archer game, but I didn't catch anything from the other two games.

 

[*Splinter]

How about win conditions? Launch had to change his at the 11th hour of DR, and they also became a point of (tedious) discussion in Election and I think Gafia. Anything we could be doing better there?

 

[Sorian]

Were there any major rules SNAFUs that we need to discuss this time around? I know sample roles threw a few things off in the Archer game, but I didn't catch anything from the other two games.

I think Makai and Launch might want to discuss the win condition change that occurred near the end of danganronpa some more. I'm sure there are other things somewhere but as a Cthulhu player, I had no real complaints.

Just in general though, hey mods, when you are running a game, keep the list in the OP up to date after each death/day ending/night ending. I noticed a trend of it being all good through day 3 or 4 and then things starting tapering off unless someone said something. As an example (I'm not picking on you here Launch, most of the games were guilty of this): Gafia OP and Gafia Day/Night Links. The game ended at day 6, I believe, for reference, and half of those players in the OP that aren't crossed off should have been.

I know it's a simple fix to just tell the mod to update it and they are quick about it but I'm sure some people are like me and go to look, see that it's not changed, and then just find what they need themselves and move on

 

[Sorian]

How about win conditions? Launch had to change his at the 11th hour of DR, and they also became a point of (tedious) discussion in Election and I think Gafia. Anything we could be doing better there?

They'll be a discussion point regardless because they can hint at factions or neutrals. It comes with the territory. I think we've learned though that changing them mid game should probably be avoided where possible.

 

[RetroMG]

Great thread! I'm traveling home today, but I'll try to get my thoughts and my Nightvale application down today or tomorrow.

 

[Swamped]

Yay, thanks Ynnny for making this thread.

What should the thread title be? A good thread title makes people click.

I think the current one is pretty good, I like the emphasis on secrets and betrayal.

What content should be in the first post? How should it be prioritized? Is there any information that should be dropped as unnecessary or added because it is missing?

I think we need to highlight more the fact the the game can be quite stressful, more so than one might initially think. I know some people dropped out of DR because they didn't realize this. I think Crab has a sentence alluding to this in the OP, but we may need to emphasize it more? Only thing is, I don't want to scare new people off by emphasizing this too much. Maybe we should make it clear than all the blaming and stuff is just within the game.

There were talks about players potentially being able to swap places or select games to participate in. What do you guys think? Would the logistics be too troublesome? What are the pros and cons?

Awesome idea. For example, SalvaPot has said that his game would be more enjoyable to people who know Harry Potter, so trading games might be a good idea. We could just host a QT to do so. I think it will be better than PMing players. Hopefully by the end of the process we will still have a healthy mix of vets and newbies in each game.

Season 4 will run into the holiday season. We have never run GAFia through the xmas / ny period. Are there potential issues here? How to address it best?

Echoing someone else, we could just make the night phases longer during these periods. Although sometimes, one wants to get away from one's family and play forum Mafia...

Newbie honeymoon period. There were discussions about how to handle newer players in-game. Once the sign-up thread is up, I will try to put together some analysis on retention and return rate of players, but how the community treats newer players would have some effects on the community&#8217;s population stability. Any thoughts on this?

That would be fantastic! Sounds like a lot of work for you though, lmk if you need help. I think we should also PM players who weren't able to play for long and see if they are still interested.

Inactive players. Did Season 3 approach towards inactive players work better than Season 2? There were some modkills in Season 3, which were firsts in GAFia history, I think.

The replacement system also worked pretty well. It was quite cool that people were still signing up even after the thread had been moved to Community.

High Activity / Low Activity play style. I see a number of the high-activity posters have already started to rein in their post counts, which is appreciated and noted :> But if there are further discussions on this point, please chime in!

I think we should have an unwritten rule that urges people not to post tooooo excessively in the first 3 or 4 day phases of the game. This is when the most players are around, and I think it might overwhelm new players. Try to wait for posts to accumulate and then reply to them all at the same time.

Any other feedback / gripes / constructive criticism you wanna raise, PLEASE SPEAK UP! Anything that you particularly enjoy or were frustrated with, any issues, any memories, any ideas &#8211; WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THEM ALL. Okies? ^____^

Combating mafia inactivity is important. I remember Crab also mentioning Mafia under-performance in general. I would argue that Mafia are the most important part of the game (obviously, no bias here ). The game is only fun for Town if Mafia does a good job of concealing themselves. And this way, Mafia stand a better chance of winning. Maybe I and a few other Mafia vets could give pointers on how to play this challenging role effectively.

 

[Ourobolus]

I'm out on vacation again this week. I'll have intermittent internet service when I'm camping at least, but I can probably check things when I'm not the one driving.

And darn, I missed the leader voting shenanigans

Anyway, I'll check here periodically. I have some comments on the games, but everyone else nut up and share their thoughts too. Launch can take it, I promise.

 

[Sorian]

Awesome idea. For example, SalvaPot has said that his game would be more enjoyable to people who know Harry Potter, so trading games might be a good idea. We could just host a QT to do so. I think it will be better than PMing players. Hopefully by the end of the process we will still have a healthy mix of vets and newbies in each game.

This is actually a good point. I'm pretty sure Crab does kind of craft things so that there is an optimal mixture of new and old in each game. Maybe we could impose that vets can only trade with vets and newbies with newbies?

 

[Hyperactivity]

if a full newbie team of mafia is there and utterly flopping, then I guess the mod or someone else could give them some pointers or something. Idk, new scum players doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as just general inactivity in the scum team

oh, and lack of communication can really hurt the scum team. but again, that's an inactivity problem usually

I also think that some of the games last season had balance issues. now this didn't always lead to the side with the advantage winning (I would actually scum as a whole, not necessarily individual cults, had the advantage in Cthulhu, especially the 2nd cult)

 

[Swamped]

Oh yeah, and regarding flavor, I love flavor! The spicier the better! Where do you think I got all those ghost peppers from?

The only problem I can see with flavor is that it is harder to come up with fake roles if you don't know the source material, but most of the mods this season have been pretty good about providing fake names to scum. Only thing is, what if a Townie wants to fake claim? (eg, I could see an x-shot BP wanting to fakeclaim cop or something). I guess they could just PM the mod for ideas.

I also agree that the roles should be constructed first, and the flavor should be added on top. The flavor shouldn't be overpowering after all.

---

Regarding number of games this season, I think 3 is a good number. We should definitely have one very normal non-crazy game. I know that there are 4 people interested this season though. Maybe one of those could be a mid-season game?

Also agreed with limiting yourself to one game at a time.

This is actually a good point. I'm pretty sure Crab does kind of craft things so that there is an optimal mixture of new and old in each game. Maybe we could impose that vets can only trade with vets and newbies with newbies?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think that would work!

 

[roytheone]

I think one thing we need to be particularly wary about is policy lynching based on past games. Some folks like poor ol' swamps haven't had experience as certain roles, so saying "You're suspicious because you acted X way in Y game and you're acting Z way now" shouldn't be something that has any place in the discussion. It's alright if you keep those thoughts in mind privately, but trying to use them as evidence in an actual game isn't fair to those who haven't had a chance to stretch their legs yet.

I partially agree with this, but I think this is something that should be governed by the players in the games themselves. If someone uses that kind of argument, it is on other players in the game to call it out and say that this is bullshit and bad reasoning.

oh, and lack of communication can really hurt the scum team. but again, that's an inactivity problem usually

It was a timezone problem for us in NX. But that was because the nights were only 2/1 day long there. In normal games where the night is 3 days long, timezone differences should be less of a problem for scum.


About being able to swap with people: I am not against this, but if we allow this, maybe we should have more time between the posting of the game threads (where all the gimmicks are described etc) and when the role PM's go out to give everyone some time to swap if they want to.

 

[Sorian]

if a full newbie team of mafia is there and utterly flopping, then I guess the mod or someone else could give them some pointers or something. Idk, new scum players doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as just general inactivity in the scum team

oh, and lack of communication can really hurt the scum team. but again, that's an inactivity problem usually

Spoiler

This isn't a game of mafia so I will post as much as I want, muahahahaha

*cough* *cough*

Yeah, I don't see a full team of newbies being mafia being such a huge deal. I don't think there is any need to underestimate new players. We were all there once and people come into the game with fresh ideas and varying levels of being able to lie, being able to reason, being able to make reads, etc. My interest in keeping a balance of new and old within each game (not necessarily balanced within each team) is that newbies and vets tend to learn a lot from each other. I know someone brought up an all-newbie game near the start of season 3 and Crab said he didn't like the idea because newbies will stumble a bit in their first game but they learn a lot from watching the others play (CornBurrito is a great example of this in action).

That being said, someone did mention the idea of toying with a "tutorial game" that new players could play during sign-ups to get their feet wet while waiting with very basic roles and balancing and one or two vets playing to kind of guide discussion where needed and I do still think that is ok because the idea is to get people used to the rules and flow of the game before being thrown into the huge 20+ man affairs.

 

[Makai]

Allowing self-voting was a great idea in Danganronpa. Splinter took us by surprise and ended the day early because Town wasn't paying attention to the votes. Crab used it to convince the fence-sitters that he was genuine and he got to stay alive another day.

 

[Sorian]

Allowing self-voting was a great idea in Danganronpa. Splinter took us by surprise and ended the day early because Town wasn't paying attention to the votes. Crab used it to good effect to stay alive another day.

Agreed, personally, I am for both self-voting and Karkadorian Math (gasp!!!!!) but really both of those rules are just up to the game designer to choose. The first is really just a decision of how much power you want to give to an individual player (voting for yourself is a tool like any other) and the second is about game pacing and how much involvement you want in each vote before a day can end early.

 

[Kalor]

I think that the rule about not bringing up activity in past games or other threads should be enforced more. Your arguments against someone should be based on information in the thread, not based on posting patterns in completely different games.

A lot more people had to drop out last season and keeping up with the thread seemed to be the main issue. There's no real answer to solving post counts since no-one is posting a bunch of fluff but being more mindful of it might help. Though the replacement system seemed to work nicely since we had a good reserve of players.

Regarding number of games this season, I think 3 is a good number. We should definitely have one very normal non-crazy game. I know that there are 4 people interested this season though. Maybe one of those could be a mid-season game?

Also agreed with limiting yourself to one game at a time.

This is what I was thinking. 3 games is a manageable number in terms of the amount of people playing and means that community doesn't have 4 or 5 Mafia threads at a time. A mid season game would be nice this time around, maybe after the second game finishes.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Agreed, personally, I am for both self-voting and Karkadorian Math (gasp!!!!!) but really both of those rules are just up to the game designer to choose. The first is really just a decision of how much power you want to give to an individual player (voting for yourself is a tool like any other) and the second is about game pacing and how much involvement you want in each vote before a day can end early.

I'm for self-voting, and neutral on how majority works. IMO, it's a failing of Town if they don't assess the worst case voting scenarios correctly.

 

[Makai]

I was a little sad that email tags were banned. That was my thing.

 

[cabot]

Eh, as far as I know no one has been lynched based on past behaviour alone, though it can be a useful thing to note as the game progresses. I'm in the 'let the town decide if it's relevant' camp.

It is a crucial part of the game, you can't just shut it out completely.

If a person makes it the sole reason for a vote on someone, then that's up to the players to spot that and react accordingly.

I like this tutorial game for new players idea.

 

[Sorian]

I'm for self-voting, and neutral on how majority works. IMO, it's a failing of Town if they don't assess the worst case voting scenarios correctly.

I don't even think about Kark Majority as giving town a buffer from making a mistake. I think of it more for the inherent nature of forcing more people contribute before a day can end early. Basically, I appreciate it for how it subtly enforces more voices to chime in. That extra vote every other day can sometimes be the difference between a turbo at the halfway mark of the day or a turbo at the 90% mark of the day and can even lead to a completely different result (for better or worse lol) but from a completely outsider point of view, more discussion and more time discussing just makes the game more fun and inclusive. Don't hold that against me in a real game though because there are multiple times (where I am scum, neutral, or town) where I would want to end a day ASAP and cause a turbo.

 

[Hyperactivity]

on the newbie tutorial game: eehhhhhh

idk about this one. if the veteran players aren't being dicks, the "throw them into the deep end" approach works for me

I think if there's an interest in it from newer players, with some veterans in there to help guide the game, we can maybe do this approach. I'll admit when I first was reading Cthulhu I was intimidated from joining the replacement list (retro told me not to worry about it, thanks btw), but I think that should be on the players familiar with mafia in the game to deal with and make the game welcoming,

 

[cabot]

Hyperactivity, you're clearly too sober for this nonsense.

You're in trouble.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Hyperactivity, you're clearly too sober for this nonsense.

You're in trouble.

we didn't elect you, sorry carrot

 

[cabot]

we didn't elect you, sorry carrot

I'm drinking now because of your sick burn, I hope you're happy you monster!

 

[Sorian]

I'm drinking now because of your sick burn, I hope you're happy you monster!

I'm calling your bluff, you were drinking anyway.

 

[Swamped]

I'm calling your bluff, you were drinking anyway.

Well duh. It's 5pm on a Monday in Scotland, what else would one do?