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[Zoe]

I will look into more verbs to see if I can find a pattern..

You're comparing the wrong forms of the verbs. You should be using the plain form as the base (いく in this case) and conjugate from there.

 

[Brofist]

What are some good sites for breaking down the strokes on Kanji for writing?

For example, I want to see how "water" is written, stroke by stroke.

Thank you.

This is a useful site if no one has recommended it yet.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwhalsod.cgi?0010_%BF%E5

 

[Zoe]

Is there some idiom I'm missing here?

奴は今の自分に増徴してるわけでも満足してるわけでもねェ

Gintama is so difficult sometimes T_T

 

[CrazyKoopa18]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

 

[Link1110]

There seems to be no pattern for common way...

Ikimashita = Itta


Drop everything but the I and add tta?


Tomatta
Tomarimashita


Drop everything but the Toma and add tta?

I will look into more verbs to see if I can find a pattern..

Thanks for the help.

Verbs that end in -ru can be conjigated one of two ways, there are the ones like tomaru, which are one way (tomarimasu, tomatta, tomatte,) and those like akeru, which so akemasu, aketa, akete

 

[lastendconductor]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

It's really simple for me. I like videogames. Tons of videogames are in Japanese. So I'm trying to learn Japanese just to be able to play them. Fuck, look at me, I'm currently squeezing my brains to form sentences in a language that isn't mine just because this forum is about videogames!
Besides, learning a language is fun and very useful. Useful for both work* and leisure.

*anecdote time: a friend of mine just earned a couple of thousand euros for arranging the buyment of a house in a small town, just because he was the only one who knew Japanese around there! a couple of calls and bam! free money.

 

[bigmit3737]

Verbs that end in -ru can be conjigated one of two ways, there are the ones like tomaru, which are one way (tomarimasu, tomatta, tomatte,) and those like akeru, which so akemasu, aketa, akete

Yeah thank you, I found a good site that breaks down verbs really well.

http://www.timwerx.net/language/jpverbs/index.htm


There are soooooo many conjugations....wow.

 

[bigmit3737]

This is a useful site if no one has recommended it yet.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwhalsod.cgi?0010_%BF%E5

Bookmarked Thank you.


I just received my books!

Japanese in Mangaland volumes 1 and 2. Very fun.

 

[Shouta]

Is there some idiom I'm missing here?

奴は今の自分に増徴してるわけでも満足してるわけでもねェ

Gintama is so difficult sometimes T_T

What are you having trouble with?

 

[bigmit3737]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

Video games, anime, manga...and learning a language is pretty cool...I want to talk to Japanese people ...but the more I learn, the more I want to visit as well.
Planning on visiting next year.

If I like it, I will find a way to stay there for a little while.

 

[RiZ III]

I approve of this thread

Spoiler

tagged >_>

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

for me its just the challenge of learning to understand something very different.

English was not my first language. I spoke Haitian Creole, and French until I was 10... then moved to the US and learned english. I am just fascinated about learning to read and write a language that does not have 26 letters.

I feel you really have to think a little deeper about the world you live in when you take on learning a language as different from the norm as Japanese. When learning a new language your mind and tolerance of others begin to change.

This is just a goal I had set for myself a long time ago, learn from as many cultures as I can before I die.

 

[Zoe]

What are you having trouble with?

Oh, nevermind, I see now that I selected the wrong kanji (even after staring at it for five minutes). 増長 makes much more sense.

 

[Kilrogg]

I feel you really have to think a little deeper about the world you live in when you take on learning a language as different from the norm as Japanese. When learning a new language your mind and tolerance of others begin to change.

Speaking of being different... I'm at the point where I can notice some fundamental differences between Japanese and languages like English and French. For instance, the way subordinate clauses seem to pop up in unexpected sentences, or the way a single Japanese sentence can be so crammed with factual information that you can't possibly translate it properly, unless you divide it in two or three sentences.

So here are my two questions:

1) For those of you who study Japanese and/or live in Japan, do you still have a hard time speaking Japanese with those differences in mind? Do you think you can pretty much speak/write Japanese the way it is intended to? How long did it take?

2) What would you say are the other main differences —regarding structure, that is—, and what is/was the most difficult concept to grasp for you? By grasp, I mean being able to use it in spoken and written English without thinking more than twice about it, not just knowing some things work differently in Japanese.

Also, it's a shame that Jay Rubin's Making Sense of Japanese only got one mention in the whole thread. This book is pretty much the only entertaining grammar book I've ever read (in that it's very easy to understand, quite short, and the writing is witty and funny), plus the author makes a point of being clear enough that you can get key concepts like the difference between wa and ga. And it's cheap, too (like, 16 USD or so).

If you'd like to get a glimpse of the book, maybe I can type a short excerpt here some other time.

 

[Axalon]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

There are a few reasons, really. I'm already fluent in English and Spanish (well...almost. I'm a native speaker but my skills in it have atrophied because I speak English almost exclusively), so learning yet another romance language wouldn't be of much use (and it'd be kind of boring), and a language from a different region of the world would look better on a resume, and what's farther from the West than the East? Chinese is a mindfuck, as I'd rather not accidentally call someone a douchebag when I want them to pass the rice or something (damn tones). Japanese has no such thing (well, it has pitch accents, but that's easier to deal with than 4+ tones), the pronunciation is easy enough as it's very similar to Spanish, and the writing system is simplified somewhat due to kana. I may also be going on vacation there in 2009 (no plans to live there though). Additionally, like the rest of us here, I like video games too and they have a tendency of originating in Japan and not getting here. Plus, I like learning new things and Japanese is quite different from English and Spanish, which makes it interesting.


As an aside, it's funny how Japanese is the one language where you need to validate your desire to learn it, lest you be some weeaboo tard who wants to be like the people in the animes or something. Nobody goes around calling you a bratwurst nerd

Spoiler

or a nazi

for learning German.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

As an aside, it's funny how Japanese is the one language where you need to validate your desire to learn it, lest you be some weeaboo tard who wants to be like the people in the animes or something.

That's because quite commonly, Japanese learners ARE those kinds of people. Check your local Japanese class for proof.

I study Japanese because I'm really into East Asian culture (obviously, it helps that I am Asian). I'm relatively fluent in Chinese, have a fundamental grasp of Japanese, and hope to learn Korean someday

 

[Zoe]

That's because quite commonly, Japanese learners ARE those kinds of people. Check your local Japanese class for proof.

Yeah, and they all drop or flunk out before the end of the second year.

 

[Blackace]

Yeah, and they all drop or flunk out before the end of the second year.

not true.. but many do tend to drop out

 

[RevenantKioku]

Yeah, and they all drop or flunk out before the end of the second year.

Like hell we do!
Er..um..wat

 

[okno]

Can I ask why the majority of neoGAF wants to learn japanese? Not trying to instigate, just want to know. Is is japanese-headedness? Do you plan to live there in the near future?

Thanks

For me, I've found Japan and all things Japanese absolutely fascinating since I was about six years old. Ever since I saw Akira on my old Icelandic 19" TV I've wanted to learn the language and go there, so that's what I'm doing now! I plan to go to Japan to teach English within the next two or three years, I just hope the world does implode by then. I've also always had a huge fascination with learning new languages, and I already know three (Icelandic (native), English, French (fluent conversational, but nowhere near fluent), and I plan on learning Portuguese once I get the hand of Japanese.

 

[Blackace]

I live in Japan, about to close on a house and am planning on kids. Sounds like a good enough reason to learn to me...

 

[sprsk]

What does it matter why you decided to learn it?

 

[Oichi]

What does it matter why you decided to learn it?

Because people love to ostracize others for learning Japanese just to play games, or just to watch anime, or just to watch manga. I think I bitched about this on IRC a couple of days ago too. :lol

 

[rotaryspirit]

Does anyone else get tired of the common misconception that Japanese doesn't have tones? Just because perfect tonage isn't always necessary like it is in Cantonese, where 19 and wet dick are separated by inflection, there are still tones used to distinguish words and phrases. Even more often these problems of tone come up in dialects.

That's because quite commonly, Japanese learners ARE those kinds of people. Check your local Japanese class for proof.

I study Japanese because I'm really into East Asian culture (obviously, it helps that I am Asian). I'm relatively fluent in Chinese, have a fundamental grasp of Japanese, and hope to learn Korean someday

My Japanese class was full of Chinese and Korean kids taking it for an easy A. Upper levels were Japanese kids taking it for an easy A. The only class that wasn't "easy" for people was 古文、 and guess who tore that class up. The soft-voiced Japanese girl who asked a gazillion questions. I got a close second though.

 

[sasimirobot]

Interesting I have been seeing people run into verb conjugation problems on the last few pages, they would not have with a certain "system"...

I learned Japanese to play video games also. Anime also (even though I never watch it anymore)

Its easy to say "what a bunch of nerds, thats not Japanese culture" etc...

But actually it is.

Your average Joe in Japan these days is not gonna want to talk to you about Buddha/Shinto, tea ceremonies, bald headed Americans studying Ninjutu, or Kimonos.

Manga, beer, games, or porn stars, as a conversation piece will get you alot farther actually...

 

[Apharmd]

Does anyone else get tired of the common misconception that Japanese doesn't have tones? Just because perfect tonage isn't always necessary like it is in Cantonese, where 19 and wet dick are separated by inflection, there are still tones used to distinguish words and phrases. Even more often these problems of tone come up in dialects.



My Japanese class was full of Chinese and Korean kids taking it for an easy A. Upper levels were Japanese kids taking it for an easy A. The only class that wasn't "easy" for people was 古文、 and guess who tore that class up. The soft-voiced Japanese girl who asked a gazillion questions. I got a close second though.

Fuck you. My Japanese class is full of white hicks. I'm the only Asian in there.

 

[Kilrogg]

Does anyone else get tired of the common misconception that Japanese doesn't have tones? Just because perfect tonage isn't always necessary like it is in Cantonese, where 19 and wet dick are separated by inflection, there are still tones used to distinguish words and phrases. Even more often these problems of tone come up in dialects.

Yeah. That's really frustrating actually. For example, I know that "hana" and "ame" have different tones (because they have two meanings > flower/nose, candy/rain), but I never learned the tones. I don't care if it's not essential to know them, I want to speak Japanese as it's intended to, not like some other French guy who's never bothered to speak a foreign language without an atrocious French accent. Anyway, it's a shame that even dictionaries don't always tell the tones.

Manga, beer, games, or porn stars, as a conversation piece will get you alot farther actually...

You mean all I should know is "kimochi ii~" and everything will be fine when I go to Japan? GREAT!

 

[bigmit3737]

Can someone please list any anime or Japanese shows that have Japanese subtitles?


Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I learned Japanese because I love the language and Japan is an absolutely awesome country.

 

[rotaryspirit]

Fuck you. My Japanese class is full of white hicks. I'm the only Asian in there.

Move to Vancouver? Seriously there were two years where I was the only white guy in the class.

Yeah. That's really frustrating actually. For example, I know that "hana" and "ame" have different tones (because they have two meanings > flower/nose, candy/rain), but I never learned the tones. I don't care if it's not essential to know them, I want to speak Japanese as it's intended to, not like some other French guy who's never bothered to speak a foreign language without an atrocious French accent. Anyway, it's a shame that even dictionaries don't always tell the tones.

My best advice for picking up tones, other than actually speaking on a daily basis, is to watch Japanese TV shows. The Japanese you hear in anime most of the time is over-produced and not how people really sound; watching the live shows gives you a much better feel for how the language flows.

 

[Askia47]

I here the phrases そんな　こと alot in various different ways, and t seems to translated alot differently at times because of the context. What exactly does it mean though?

 

[Axalon]

I here the phrases そんな　こと alot in various different ways, and t seems to translated alot differently at times because of the context. What exactly does it mean though?

Funny, I actually read a passage on it like 3 minutes ago off of a PDF called "An Introduction to Japanese". It apparently is a book draft, and freely available. Here's a passage on koto:

1.2.1.2.5.1. koto - 事

You could probably write a nice paper on why こと sums up the Japanese mind
set. I will not use quite that much text for it, but it is hard to overestimate the
pivotal role this word has when illustrating the difference between Western
languages and Japanese.
こと means "concept", or "notion", and is used to not so much talk about an
actual thing, but only the mental concept that exists for it. For instance, 歩く is a
verb meaning "to walk", but 歩くこと means "the concept of walking". It raises
the idea of walking from something concrete - namely, the act of walking - to
something abstract - the mental notion of walking, and whatever this commonly
entails.
This "talking about something on a level higher" is one of the reasons that Asia
in general is considered more spiritual, since a lot of the time rather than talking
about the actual things, they seem to be talking about the philosophical or
spiritual abstractions. In the Japanese language this allows you to express
things in relation to your thoughts, or your concepts, rather than the real thing.
For instance, if one doesn't like a particular person, it might just as well be that
the person themselves is a normal person, but the mental image you have of
them is something you do not like. You could say "I do not like you", but that's
direct (something that you try not to be in Japanese, unless it's a familiar
setting), or you can say "I do not like your こと". This way, you shift the disliking
from the actual person to what your concept is of them - in essence, you've
shifted the fault away from them, to potentially lying with yourself.
Of course, in real life nearly no one's going to realise that's what they're doing on
a day to day basis as they're too busy just living and doing what it is they do
every day, but it does pose a foothold into understanding why the Japanese
language works the way it does (I wonder what Immanuel Kant would have
thought of this...)

 

[bigmit3737]

I here the phrases 　こと alot in various different ways, and t seems to translated alot differently at times because of the context. What exactly does it mean though?

I was just watching Naruto..and Sai just used this word "そんな"

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That passage quoted about こと and spirituality is such bullshit.

 

[tnw]

for people having difficulty with past tense conjugation, don't sweat it. It's really easy.

I remember learning a song in my beginner japanese class. It was to the tune of 'santa claus is coming to town'

u tu ru - tta

nu bu mu - n da

ku - ita

etc


ta form yoooooooo

sorry I don't remember it all, but I remember it being useful at the time. conjugation is really simple and extremely consistent.

Speaking of being different... I'm at the point where I can notice some fundamental differences between Japanese and languages like English and French. For instance, the way subordinate clauses seem to pop up in unexpected sentences, or the way a single Japanese sentence can be so crammed with factual information that you can't possibly translate it properly, unless you divide it in two or three sentences.

I know that it makes translating unpleasant! When I translate financial earnings results. The lead pargraph will be like 'Financial conditions for Q3 WA............................................................














Increased by 5%.

Basically what you do is take the first and last phrases and make it a sentence. Then take the middle section (which is just all reasons why it happened usually), and make that into one or two sentences. Japan is the land of the sentence paragraph. :/

 

[Hitokage]

I was just watching Naruto..and Sai just used this word "そんな"

It literally means "that kind of ...", but can be used in a protesting tone, as if what's happening is wrong or undesirable.

 

[tnw]

That passage quoted about こと and spirituality is such bullshit.

Yeah, I hate orientalism.

'The distant land of tea and sutras. where things are done in long traditional ways that respect the elders of the past. yes, perhaps this is the truly evolved way' >_>

'sonna koto' just means 'stuff like that'

'sonna koto yaru nante' just means '(I can't believe you would) do something like that' You can essentially a trail off by just saying 'sonna' because everyone will know what you mean.

 

[Askia47]

So I take it that そんな　こと , has a negative connotation when its used, like: 'thats terrible", or "thats unbelievable".

 

[clav]

I learned Japanese because I love the language and Japan is an absolutely awesome country.

I'm learning Japanese becuase I love the culture, food, and the women.

for people having difficulty with past tense conjugation, don't sweat it. It's really easy.

I remember learning a song in my beginner japanese class. It was to the tune of 'santa claus is coming to town'

u tu ru - tta

nu bu mu - n da

ku - ita

etc


ta form yoooooooo

sorry I don't remember it all, but I remember it being useful at the time. conjugation is really simple and extremely consistent.



I know that it makes translating unpleasant! When I translate financial earnings results. The lead pargraph will be like 'Financial conditions for Q3 WA............................................................














Increased by 5%.

Basically what you do is take the first and last phrases and make it a sentence. Then take the middle section (which is just all reasons why it happened usually), and make that into one or two sentences. Japan is the land of the sentence paragraph. :/

That was the way my sensei taught it at UCLA. The patterns are stuck in my head as a result of it, but I never really found it useful. Well, I suppose the first three days it was for homework, but then afterwards, it was just a matter of deciphering and saying it quickly.

Somehow at Northwestern, the teachers made it possible that Japanese is harder than Chinese.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm learning Japanese becuase I love the culture, food, and the women.

Sounds like some damn good reasons to me!

So I take it that そんな　こと , has a negative connotation when its used, like: 'thats terrible", or "thats unbelievable".

There is definitely a tendency to use it in a negative sense, but there is no rule. This is probably one of those things that needs to be learned through context...

 

[tnw]

There is definitely a tendency to use it in a negative sense, but there is no rule. This is probably one of those things that needs to be learned through context...

to be honest I've never actually heard anyone say this. it seems to be used in dramatic contexts like dramas, film, etc.

it reminds me of my old american roommate who clearly was learning japanese through manga, etc. I would text him in japanese something like 'want to meet for lunch' and he would reply ' 'ho'. clearly something he picked up somewhere. I've never had anybody reply to me that way before. so odd.

 

[Zoe]

to be honest I've never actually heard anyone say this. it seems to be used in dramatic contexts like dramas, film, etc.

We learned it in first year as a way to turn down compliments and gifts.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It definitely isn't commonplace for an adult to seriously use "そんな・・・！” in the dramatic "why me?!?!"-sense, but I have often heard people use it jokingly.

 

[tnw]

We learned it in first year as a way to turn down compliments and gifts.

and I've certainly never heard it used in this context.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

and I've certainly never heard it used in this context.

Wait.. what? Really?

It's definitely not used to literally turn a gift down, but people use it all the time when receiving omiyage. ”そんな・・・　良かったのに・・・”　”そんな・・・　もったいない・・・” etc...　are often used when receiving a gift in the "you didn't have to go to the trouble..."-sense.

 

[Axalon]

That passage quoted about こと and spirituality is such bullshit.

Meh, don't shoot the messenger. :lol

 

[tnw]

Wait.. what? Really?

It's definitely not used to literally turn a gift down, but people use it all the time when receiving omiyage. ”そんな・・・　良かったのに・・・”　”そんな・・・　もったいない・・・” etc...　are often used when receiving a gift in the "you didn't have to go to the trouble..."-sense.

hmmm, never heard sonna used in that context. it sounds kind of obachan-ish if one was to use it.

I don't really have any japanese friends and don't interact with Japanese people outside of work though really, so.

 

[Hitokage]

I don't really have any japanese friends and don't interact with Japanese people outside of work though really, so.

...

 

[Shirokun]

Could somebody explain all the differences between 知る and 分かる? I know that wakaru is "
to understand" and shiru is "to be acquainted with", but I still tend to mix them up. For example, if I'm confirming that I know a piece of information, I would say 知っている, right? What are some of the other instances in which I would use each? Nothing has bugged me more than these two words for some reason.

 

[Zoe]

I always think of "shiru" as "to know of." It also helps when you consider that you can't say 知ります, only 知っています, because once you 知る something, you can't undo that piece of knowledge.